What do you think about the singleplayer and the overall game design of Gran Turismo 7? And how does it compare to the previous games?
- Thread starter Mati_Blaster
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- United Kingdom
- Lord-Jonty
- 24,142
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
My problem wasn't with GT4's career mode itself. My issue was with the race formats. The field mixes were generally terrible, from Kaz's obsession with trying to show all kinds of different cars in every race. It might make for a good history lesson but it makes for mediocre racing at best. And I really really don't like the single-lap banzai runs. There seemed to be a lot of those in GT4 (admittedly I could be thinking about GT5 here - I didn't play too much of that, and I think I skipped GT6 entirely).
[edit] I can live without weather, though it is a nice addition. Same with graphics / race mods - nice but not a requirement. Photomode is interesting to play with but ultimately I don't care about it.
What I really want from Gran Turismo:
- Relatively evenly-matched fields with no single super fast rabbit
- No races shorter than 3 laps - it's just too annoying and unrealistic
- Minimal rubberbanding - let me decide how much car I need, and win or lose by my own driving
- Decent AI - doesn't even have to be that great
Are the online weekly races multiplayer, or NPC / AI? I really just want to race against the computer for a console game. If I want genuine multiplayer online racing, I will do it right and get iRacing.
Anyway, it's a shame GT7 is so multiplayer-dominated. I will probably keep my money, then.
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- 1,776
- Sweden
Gt7 is proably the one i have most hours in mostly because how big improvment they made to how the cars feel to drive, looks and sounds, and that is what keep me coming back. Most of the content they add aims more for the single player crowd
I am not saying i dont like gt3 or its career mode, but for me gt4 overall was a more complete pakage, i had fun with both, but gt4 for me does edge out gt3 slighly in basicely every way.
- 16
- United States
The fact that they locked the option to sell your vehicles by completing the Café mode made me lose interest in playing more as I really wanted to upgrade the cars that I want to use, but didn't have enough credits for them. Café felt like it dragged on too long for a mode that I often hear it's too short, but I dunno.
Plus, I'm too used to how the older games work in terms of progression. I called GT5 the last "classic" Gran Turismo as it still have that structure of picking your favorite car and take to events that you can race in while upgrading that car and treating it with care. It's what made GT1-3 and 5 click for me.
Plus, I'm too used to how the older games work in terms of progression. I called GT5 the last "classic" Gran Turismo as it still have that structure of picking your favorite car and take to events that you can race in while upgrading that car and treating it with care. It's what made GT1-3 and 5 click for me.
- 2,443
- somewhere near Trial Mountain
- oldbusanubis
I had just redownloaded GT Sport for the first time since it had gone offline.
There's a lot about 7's core structure that irks me the wrong way. Everything from navigating menus to buying cars and even driving itself just feels cumbersome, while with Sport it feels more natural and simplistic. I can hop into GT League and do one of the numerous races that aren't in 7, such as the Midship challenge, Lamborghini one-make event, Beetle vs Samba bus event, etc. with relative ease. There is very little in Sport that distracts me from the most important thing - driving.
The economy in Sport is better balanced. While races typically take twice as long to do for half the pay, you are incentivized with not only the CRB, but also the underpowered bonus too, which the latter encourages you to drive cars you otherwise wouldn't dare to enter.
Car values in Sport are more forgiving, so while events may pay out less, cars cost dramatically less money to purchase. An R34 GTR costs only 61,000 credits unlike in GT7 where it's 450,000 credits. So, grinding time is drastically reduced.
GT7 sees you trying to collect cars, while its core structure doesn't even inherently encourage nor reward you for driving most of them. Sport on the other hand does both fairly well. Just about every car in the game, with a few exceptions, has some purpose for being there. Some kind of use and reason to drive it.
In GT7 they removed being paid credits for SP time trial, which was something that incentivized you to simply drive your cars. They removed the underpowered bonus, which was something that encouraged you to drive a slower car. They drastically changed tuning to where it is now not only a really unnecessary expense (20k+ for a set of racing tires, really? WTF?) but is also now more complex than it needed to be. Sport's tuning operated on a more simplistic "level" system, which you can utilize only if you have mileage points, which you gain from driving your cars. Another thing that encouraged you to drive gone from 7.
I also noticed as I play Sport again you can not only change the track while in time trial mode, but you can also change your car while on the pre-race screen of a GT League event. It would bring up a screen allowing you to select only the cars eligible to enter that event. This prevented you from having to back out of the event, wait for the game to load, change car, wait for event to load again. This is what I meant earlier about something so simple as navigating a menu is unnecessarily cumbersome because of a bad and unintuitive menu design.
All in all, 7 only beats Sport in one thing - car/track content.
There's a lot about 7's core structure that irks me the wrong way. Everything from navigating menus to buying cars and even driving itself just feels cumbersome, while with Sport it feels more natural and simplistic. I can hop into GT League and do one of the numerous races that aren't in 7, such as the Midship challenge, Lamborghini one-make event, Beetle vs Samba bus event, etc. with relative ease. There is very little in Sport that distracts me from the most important thing - driving.
The economy in Sport is better balanced. While races typically take twice as long to do for half the pay, you are incentivized with not only the CRB, but also the underpowered bonus too, which the latter encourages you to drive cars you otherwise wouldn't dare to enter.
Car values in Sport are more forgiving, so while events may pay out less, cars cost dramatically less money to purchase. An R34 GTR costs only 61,000 credits unlike in GT7 where it's 450,000 credits. So, grinding time is drastically reduced.
GT7 sees you trying to collect cars, while its core structure doesn't even inherently encourage nor reward you for driving most of them. Sport on the other hand does both fairly well. Just about every car in the game, with a few exceptions, has some purpose for being there. Some kind of use and reason to drive it.
In GT7 they removed being paid credits for SP time trial, which was something that incentivized you to simply drive your cars. They removed the underpowered bonus, which was something that encouraged you to drive a slower car. They drastically changed tuning to where it is now not only a really unnecessary expense (20k+ for a set of racing tires, really? WTF?) but is also now more complex than it needed to be. Sport's tuning operated on a more simplistic "level" system, which you can utilize only if you have mileage points, which you gain from driving your cars. Another thing that encouraged you to drive gone from 7.
I also noticed as I play Sport again you can not only change the track while in time trial mode, but you can also change your car while on the pre-race screen of a GT League event. It would bring up a screen allowing you to select only the cars eligible to enter that event. This prevented you from having to back out of the event, wait for the game to load, change car, wait for event to load again. This is what I meant earlier about something so simple as navigating a menu is unnecessarily cumbersome because of a bad and unintuitive menu design.
All in all, 7 only beats Sport in one thing - car/track content.
- 1,459
- Indonesia
Honestly, the super fast rabbit, single-lap banzai runs, or rubberbanding are all done because of the terrible AI, they resort to those measures to give more of a "challenge". It'd depend on how far the Sophy project will go, if it'd be successful or it's a failure that would be dropped entirely and back to the robotic AI.
Though I do want for all kinds of different cars to be shown, which I feel is lacking in GT7. But to make it more evenly-matched, I'd wish that those cars can vary in how they're tuned or equipped, not only having them in their default state, like the first GT where with limited selection of the cars, there are races with them in their stock range (276hp), to supercar level range (600hp), or hypercar level (900hp).
Moral of the story: GT traits are outdated and holds no value in the present time, enjoying them is only being nostalgic and a failure to move on from the past.
What mentioned here for GT7 also existed in previous GT that aren't Sport, like the unnecessary expense of tuning. Maybe past GT was just really overrated to never have anyone criticize said aspect.
GT should just burn and discard anything it had in the past to become an actual good game. Should be even better if one just have an access to all the cars rather than paying less.
Though the removed SP and underpowered bonus is not related to the past stuff and is unforgivable.
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- 2,443
- somewhere near Trial Mountain
- oldbusanubis
I can't honestly tell if you're being snide or are actually legitimately agreeing with my observations. I will assume the former but hope for the latter.
The moral of the story though? There really wasn't one. I was objectively looking at GT7 compared to was in Sport. if one enjoys GT7 then be all means continue to do so, but I don't think GT Sport deserves the critique it gets still even to this day simply because it deviated from the established form. Many of the deviations made to GT Sport's core design were of benefit to the players. The only thing in Sport that wasn't of benefit to the player was the online focus, which I do agree with, but PD did thankfully rectify this by giving us the GT League early on and the offline patch.
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- 1,459
- Indonesia
My point is about the established form that existed before GT7 too. Seems that GT (for its so-called golden era like GT1-GT4) is just a really overrated franchise whose bad game design always got swept under the rug. It never deserved to be put on a pedestal. GT7 enjoyers (or said critic you mentioned) should be to blame where they may be what leads to the decision to return those forms?
Even the online focus can be a positive thing too, considering how awful GT's AI is to the point that it's a wonder why one would want to race against them in a chase-the-rabbit format, and that no AI can replace other human players in competitiveness.
Though even if GT Sport actually moves on from the outdated established form, maybe it doesn't get the praise because there aren't really much things there that really wowed the players.
- 2,443
- somewhere near Trial Mountain
- oldbusanubis
The flaws which were in the "Golden Era" of GT were overlooked because at the time there really wasn't anything like it on console. But we are no longer in that time period, there are more sims on console than there were in 1997-2004 and things that were once acceptable are no longer blindly accepted but are now open to fair criticism.
You don't need to point out that these things were in GT games prior because in reality it is irrelevant to the average player nowadays. People aren't going to look and go "hmm, should I get GT2 or GTS/7?" They're going to default to one of the newer games when making the decision of which GT title to purchase. So naturally comparing the most recent title to its predecessor makes the most logic sense.
But if you want me to compare GT Sport to the "Golden Era" Sport still would win. it has way too many minor QoL changes that ultimately all add up to create a good experience, QoL changes that simply don't exist in the older titles and for some reason even the latest title.
You don't need to point out that these things were in GT games prior because in reality it is irrelevant to the average player nowadays. People aren't going to look and go "hmm, should I get GT2 or GTS/7?" They're going to default to one of the newer games when making the decision of which GT title to purchase. So naturally comparing the most recent title to its predecessor makes the most logic sense.
But if you want me to compare GT Sport to the "Golden Era" Sport still would win. it has way too many minor QoL changes that ultimately all add up to create a good experience, QoL changes that simply don't exist in the older titles and for some reason even the latest title.
- 1,459
- Indonesia
I don't know what do you refer about "wasn't anything like it", but it's doubtful that they're really unmatched or that there aren't anything much better which all happened because they're overlooked.
It can happen where GT7 is bashed while putting older GTs on pedestal including comparison.
- 1,068
- Spain
My gripe with the "progression" in Gran Turismo 7 is directly a consequence of a different idea of what the word means.
To me, it's two things;
1. Experiencing different models of cars in various states of tuning and circuits.
2. Getting them around those circuits as fast as I can.
The first part, I can pretty much take care of myself. I don't like grinding so it's an ongoing waiting game to get all the cars I want.
The second part, however, I don't feel like the game gives you too much of a chance (in single player, anyway) to achieve that goal. In Sport Mode, I can reference other players replays/ghosts and if required, tuning sheets. With the BoP in the majority of events I never have to question what I am missing to get quicker. The drawback of course is that I'm limited to the cars available in Daily Races and Time Trials.
The same goes for the Circuit Experience and Licences, the reference points are there but the freedom of choice isn't.
I would love to see a visible PP (or even whole tuning sheets) on CPU cars during World Circuits and Quick/Custom Races. As for reference laps to improve your pace in these races, well I can't see an obvious solution, but it's something that would infinitely improve the single player experience for me.
To me, it's two things;
1. Experiencing different models of cars in various states of tuning and circuits.
2. Getting them around those circuits as fast as I can.
The first part, I can pretty much take care of myself. I don't like grinding so it's an ongoing waiting game to get all the cars I want.
The second part, however, I don't feel like the game gives you too much of a chance (in single player, anyway) to achieve that goal. In Sport Mode, I can reference other players replays/ghosts and if required, tuning sheets. With the BoP in the majority of events I never have to question what I am missing to get quicker. The drawback of course is that I'm limited to the cars available in Daily Races and Time Trials.
The same goes for the Circuit Experience and Licences, the reference points are there but the freedom of choice isn't.
I would love to see a visible PP (or even whole tuning sheets) on CPU cars during World Circuits and Quick/Custom Races. As for reference laps to improve your pace in these races, well I can't see an obvious solution, but it's something that would infinitely improve the single player experience for me.
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ItsHim
Premium
- 1,364
- Bavaria/Germany
There’s quite a few good and valid points made, but whenever I read critical remarks I can’t help but wonder if us Westerners are missing a few points.
I’ve always felt that GT was a very Japanese game. Never been fond of JRPGs, but they have their cult following, and the more recent ones like classic Yakuza series, Vanillaware games, rhythm games… they’re different from Western products.
GT to me always felt like obsessive pursuit of completion (folks were even collecting paint chips!) and an almost brutal “you’re the expert so figure it out yourself” attitude to guiding players through the game. Like the old dungeon crawlers or Metroid without an auto map. You do it yourself, it’s part of the design. Rather than we’ve been too lazy.
So while all of the criticism is justified, maybe people most frustrated with GT7 aren’t the core audience this game was designed for. Maybe we’re all to used now to global products which try to cater to everyone but are very bland and non offensive as a result. Idk.
I’ve always felt that GT was a very Japanese game. Never been fond of JRPGs, but they have their cult following, and the more recent ones like classic Yakuza series, Vanillaware games, rhythm games… they’re different from Western products.
GT to me always felt like obsessive pursuit of completion (folks were even collecting paint chips!) and an almost brutal “you’re the expert so figure it out yourself” attitude to guiding players through the game. Like the old dungeon crawlers or Metroid without an auto map. You do it yourself, it’s part of the design. Rather than we’ve been too lazy.
So while all of the criticism is justified, maybe people most frustrated with GT7 aren’t the core audience this game was designed for. Maybe we’re all to used now to global products which try to cater to everyone but are very bland and non offensive as a result. Idk.
- 1,737
- Germany
Relating to this, I feel like I am one of those with a strong bond to "stupidly and unnecessary difficulty", been there, done that, even making the crawlers map with directions to look to save as many moves as possible (Vaporum is such a good game).
But I dont collect anything in GT - here I am the polar opposite and simply use everything that I can immediatly identify as fun, try some things once, and intent to never do some specific other things. I will never 100% GT7.
ItsHim
Premium
- 1,364
- Bavaria/Germany
Well I’ve come across quite a few members here in the past decade who were very keen on „owning“ every 10 km used car or every paint variation there is, so they are out there. And speaking of which I feel that GT7 does the best job of any GT so far to make it plain obvious, and reward, collecting cars. They fleshed it out quite a bit and it feels a lot more organic to make it both a game element and a way to moderate progression in the game.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but pointing out a couple of details I feel PD actually put some thought and effort in to make GT finally feel more like a video game.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but pointing out a couple of details I feel PD actually put some thought and effort in to make GT finally feel more like a video game.
- 1,130
- United States
I own all cars, wheels, paint colors, etc. You get to a point where having 80 million credits is kind of pointless, so you need to spend it somewhere. I just about have a double of every engine swapped car as well. I enjoy playing the game, but I can only have 100M credits in the piggy bank, so I need to spend it somewhere.
My next thing will be to buy every tire compound for all Gr.1, Gr.2, Gr.3 and Gr.4 cars because a single Tokyo run can pay for almost every car in a class.
