What do you think ?

[BobK]

Gonzo, he didn't say he was advocating any of them (at least not in this thread). He was simply stating things that are and are not infringements on freedom. And he's entirely correct. Advocacy is a whole 'nother issue.

 

[Omnis]

I think it should be remembered that we stand for the preamble to the constitution, and that we're not just freedom-whores.

Well, anyway, my cousin's friend was actually one of the guys who helped to subdue Reid on the plane.

 

[Famine]

Yet statistically, the woman, the baby and the man would all be better off if she didn't have this choice.

Statistically everyone is better off if they don't have the choice to eat red meat.

Yet people still choose to do it.

 

[ledhed]

LOL ... I kinda admired the Judge as someone who had a VALUE system and it came through in his speach ..something all too rare in this PC world ,

Also as long as Paris and Nicole and the next drunk or naked bimbo are around ...people like this JUDGE tend to get lost in the clutter.

Just like the guys who would just LOVE to blow us all to itty bitty pieces tend to be forgotten ...that and the FACT we are at WAR with Islamic extremist who are against everything that JUDGE stands for . And what the trial and the JUSTICE ..the " Terrorist " recieved.

They may also be against abortion ..I guess it depends if your an infidel .

 

[Solid Lifters]

It's the fact that you said the choice to abort or not abort is "only" a matter of 9-10 months for the mother (bearing the child), while denying the man his child would affect him "for life."

I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. What if the woman knew she could not afford to raise a child, or was forced by her boyfriend/spouse to get the abortion? Then she'd be the one affected "for life" by your terms. There are also women who willingly get abortions and then regret them later. Are they not affected for life?

Women who think they might regret abortions shouldn't have them in the first place. I have no sympathy for a women who wants to kill herself for having an abortion. If a woman wants a baby, but that man doesn't, she should have the baby but have the man sign away any parental rights or financial burden, much like if the woman didn't want the child, but the man did. I'm not forcing a woman to have an abortion if the man doesn't want it. Also, I'm not forcing the woman to have any financial or emotional attachment to the child if the man wants it, but she doesn't.

It may not surprise you that I have zero religious background, and that my only exposure to religion has been through extended family, friends, school (last semester I took a neat and interesting class that covered most of the major eastern and western religions), and the media.

I'm not religious, either. But I do think life begins at conception, to a degree. But, when there are no signs of a "difficult birth" and a man wants it, the woman should have the child, then give it up with no financial or emotional attachments whatsoever. Single parenting might not be easy, but it is possible.

No. I don't think a man needs to be concerned for a child he conceived. He should, especially when the woman can't take care of it by herself, but I don't think he has to. I have no right to make that kind of judgment.

I don't think he has to, either, if he doesn't want it. I obviously don't think she has to, either, if she doesn't want it.

Sorry, I'm as serious as can be here, and there's no silliness that I can see. My beliefs are just (apparently) far different from yours.

Apparently.

 

[Wolfe]

Women who think they might regret abortions shouldn't have them in the first place. I have no sympathy for a women who wants to kill herself for having an abortion.

Who said they thought they might regret it? I'm not saying that going through with an abortion without thinking hard about it first is a good thing, but it isn't rare for someone to end up regretting a decision that they thought they were sure of.

If a woman wants a baby, but that man doesn't, she should have the baby but have the man sign away any parental rights or financial burden, much like if the woman didn't want the child, but the man did.

That would be nice, but it often isn't quite that easy.

I'm not religious, either. But I do think life begins at conception, to a degree. But, when there are no signs of a "difficult birth" and a man wants it, the woman should have the child, then give it up with no financial or emotional attachments whatsoever. Single parenting might not be easy, but it is possible.

What about the hardships the woman will have to go through in having the child to begin with? That's something she will no doubt want to avoid if she doesn't want a child.

Ultimately, whether it's abortion or birth, it's the woman's body, the woman's risk (botched abortion/complicated birth), and it should be the woman's decision. The decision-making process just happens to be the one thing the man can contribute in.

I don't think he has to, either, if he doesn't want it. I obviously don't think she has to, either, if she doesn't want it.

According to yourself earlier, that's silly.

 

[Danoff]

Sounds like you are pro-anarchy more than pro-freedom.

Not at all - far from it. Anarchy is one of the worst social models in existence. It ranks up there with dictatorship - because it tends to turn into one.

Danoff, where exactly would you draw the line? True freedom for an individual would by necessity impact on another's freedom, would it not?

No. It's not the easiest concept to grasp, but once you grasp it things fall into place. Simply put (a little too simply):

Your rights cannot conflict with someone else's. If they do, you don't have them.

I've started a thread on the subject.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=77925&highlight=human+rights

LOL ... I kinda admired the Judge as someone who had a VALUE system and it came through in his speach ..something all too rare in this PC world

Yea, if the speech is real you have to admire him for that. I'd like to see that sort of thing a little more often.

 

[Mrs. Famine]

So with this logic, women who have abortions suffer from misopedia and misandry? I mean, they must really hate children if they don't mind having its head cut off, its arms cut off, its legs cut off and then yanked out of their bodies, right?

I take exception to that comment. That is not how a termination occurs (well, not in the UK anyway).

I agree that it is the woman's right to choose. [/determined not to get involved in abortion debate]

 

[FoolKiller]

I like this judge.

I had heard some of this, but all I had heard was Reid proclaiming his allegiance to bin Laden. I am sure that bin Laden is sitting in his cave thinking that NOW you will make a great tool for his campaigns.

Otherwise a miscarriage would be classed as manslaughter.

And heart attacks considered suicide?



I'm avoiding the abortion debate. Danoff and I discussed my opinions on this in length a while back in the abortion thread. Look at that. There's an abortion thread.

 

[Omnis]

I'm avoiding the abortion debate. Danoff and I discussed my opinions on this in length a while back in the abortion thread. Look at that. There's an abortion thread.

Also why I decided to stop.