What does GT5 have over FM3?

[xxRHOxx]

Polyphony needs to learn the simple phrase "Keep It Simple Stupid". GT5 is a prime example of a studio not knowing what game they want to make, with a design philosophy too afraid to sacrifice anything that could drag the overall product down. The game is technically sound in some respects, but the overall product is amateurish.

Forza 3 is not as technically brilliant in a few respects, but the overall product is far more professional and easier for gamers to appreciate.

Remember its japanese, its like FIFA & PES.

 

[Ryan81]

Ok, I'll give my views as someone who has both games.

What I believe GT5 has over FM3 is:

Weather/night racing (that's obvious)
Replay mode is better imo
Description of each model in the game (Forza lacks this)
While having far fewer cockpits, those in GT5 are more detailed
Endurance races are far longer
Licenses (always liked this aspect)
The menus, track list- just seem more personable somehow. FM3's menus seem quite impersonal.
AI cars in tournaments are randomized to keep things more interesting.
Different types of racing (WRC, NASCAR etc)

There are also things I like better in FM3 but as you only asked what makes GT5 better, I'll leave it at that

 

[NOS Waster]

GT5 IS NOT a simulator, laugh at this chapey

You obviously don't know what iRacing is, so I'll let you sit in your own ignorance.

 

[Tenacious D]

IMO GT5 is practically indefensible on nearly all sides.

As I said earlier in this thread, PD actually backed up to make FM3 look better than it is.

GT5 should have easily cleaned Forza's clock, but instead PD punts on first and goal.

While GT5 is definitely a work in progress, the fact that hundreds of thousands of us can't stop playing it, perhaps millions, indicates that your views aren't as widely held as you believe. At any given time before 8 pm Central US, there are more than 2500 visitors here in the GT5 section, and not all are complainers.

Actually, every car was built from the ground up for FM3, they were not just imported from previous Forza titles.

http://forzamotorsport.net/en-us/pitpass1.htm

The Forza 3 treasure trove looks something like this: More than 400 cars, with each vehicle model re-built from the ground up with 10x the number of details compared to its predecessor Forza 2. Plus, detailed cockpit views for all 400+ cars, each with working gauges (including race cars and digital multi-function displays)."

They lied, sorry. For an example of proof, give a Ford GT a complete aero mod in FM1, 2 and 3, and look at the left and right front noses. As for the rest of your post, I'm sure Forza 3 is a lovely game to its fans, but it's a Microsoft product, through and through, and the issues had me quitting after just two months and going back to GT4, of all things.

Like you, I love Forza's Livery Editor, but I hate the coding around it. Save more than 130 or so decals, and if you paint cars at all in a Forza game, you're going to have way more than that, and sorting through them becomes a chore. Add to that the absolutely hideous method T10 came up with to share pics, and... well, I spent fully six or seven hours trying to get a handful of pics taken, sorted, uploaded, then downloaded and FIXED because MS's braindead system ruined them, and by then it was almost 4 am and I called it quits. As in no more Forza 3 ever again. This is something that in any GT game would take perhaps an hour or two to take perhaps 100 pics, sort, select, stick on a USB stick, put on PC, upload to our fave photo sharing site, and voila, with no loss of quality, or very darn little depending on hosting site. MS manages to screw up just about everything they make.

I really do think that people are nit-picking GT5 because of their own expectations for the game. They were expecting a game with zero flaws which is just too much to ask for anything in life. So while GT5 may have some flaws, you have to remember that Forza 3 has them, Call of Duty has them, Killzone 2 has them, Socom has them, well I think you get the point. Every game has flaws.

Well............................................ no.

I love GT5, don't get me wrong, but most of the critics do have valid points, and the biggest thing is collectively, GT5 looks to be an unfinished product. The inability to adjust gear ratios on racing trannies and ZERO brake upgrades should be a big clue. Kaz has gone on record in recent interviews stating that GT5 will continue to expand over the coming years, so he knows the score, even better than we do no doubt.

As for the A.I., I have to reiterate what a few others have said, and that's they seem to be like Forza's bots now. People who have problems with them most likely treat them like mindless drones, and then when they get banged around, they throw a fit. I've learned to treat them like people, and they behave very well. Except in Daytona with NASCAR cars, then they all drive like Dale Earnhardt. The one thing that needs fixing with them is they slam on the brakes still, and this is a behavior pattern they've had since the first game. The A.I. team really needs to tend to that.

 

[Doughnut]

Well like I said, GT5 does have it's flaws. I never said it was a perfect game. I'm just saying that every single game that gets released has it's flaws. What I meant by the nit-picking is the whole "oh the shadow didn't correctly follow the car" complaints. I mean seriously does it really take away from your driving experience? I guess I can just appreciate the things that GT5 does well since I have been playing racing games for what seems like forever. And to me GT5 is truly awesome from a pure driving/racing standpoint.

 

[CoolColJ]

Forza’s physics engine, however, does not feel as comprehensive, as if it were using the one that was employed in Gran Turismo 3 A-spec or GT4 (10 years or so ago!). The experience, to me, is more of an arcade game; easier to jump in and start playing with less of a learning curve. With the GTI, you simply get somewhere close to your braking marks, turn in, and the car zips around the corner under throttle. GT5’s GTI is far touchier, with the front end washing out more dramatically if you carry too much speed. You must be much more precise and have greater finesse to master GT5. I noticed several corners that were particularly tricky in GT5, yet were surprisingly easy to ace in Forza.

Overall, they’re both great driving games. But Forza is the game, while GT5 feels more like an actual simulator, with a steeper learning curve, more opportunities for error, and greater configurability. I didn’t get a chance to compare vehicle damage, since I played GT5 pre-update. Forza is what you play with your friends when hanging out; GT5 is what you attempt to master in solitude—and what makes you end up throwing the controller across the room, because it’s more difficult than it looks.

http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...omparison_3a_gti_and_m3_at_laguna_seca_page_2

 

[prymet1me]

Devedander great post about the car count argument.

 

[xxRHOxx]

Well like I said, GT5 does have it's flaws. I never said it was a perfect game. I'm just saying that every single game that gets released has it's flaws. What I meant by the nit-picking is the whole "oh the shadow didn't correctly follow the car" complaints. I mean seriously does it really take away from your driving experience? I guess I can just appreciate the things that GT5 does well since I have been playing racing games for what seems like forever. And to me GT5 is truly awesome from a pure driving/racing standpoint.

So theres no point complaining bout anything because its a game.

 

[ShylockHolmes]

COMPLETELY different game in your Xbox than others got including myself....wow.

Maybe he bought it at the same place you got your completely different FM3 game than that which everyone else has? I just have the FM3 collectors edition. Mine has questionable physics and no sign of 360 calcs/sec when actually driving. Where did you get your super duper Teamxbox FM3 edition?

At least FM3 got rid of the arcade style endless 360's when barely scraping your paint on the oval wall, I'll give them that at least.

 

[Tenacious D]

(snip)

It might seem like 10 and 20 hps jumps in power shouldn't make you blow away the competition but due to the way the game is setup, it does. The biggest challenge for winning in most events isn't being competitive with the fastest car, it's being able to pass the pack reliably and catch the first place car before he is way out in the lead. 10hp can be the difference between being able to squeak by an opponent in the turns and not being able to pass them up. When you can't pass the oppoonent, you spend many seconds behind each one waiting for a better spot to pass, when you CAN you suddenly shave many seconds off yoru time becuase you no longer have to wait behind AI cars for the rare easy pass locations and this amplifies (a lot) what 10HP does to your race.

While it is POSSIBLE to find the right car to bring to a race and have a good time, ultimately it's a lot of trouble and the layout of most of the races (read short/no qualifyer) means you don't have a lot of wiggle room in this chase without being a huge time/cr waster.

And if you look way back at my first point 1 - that is the crux of the issue... your car must be potent enough to pass a lot of cars fast because often you will find if you aren't close to first by the 2nd or 3rd lap, he is putting seconds on the pack and there is an almost un recoverable gap he gets ahead of you.

Further more the AI cars in the back of the pack are stupid and slow and if you wait for appropriate times to pass without just brute forcing past, you can easily be laps into the race before you are ahead of the pack in which case we get back to not being able to catch a reasonably matched car with 10 seconds on you already.

So the very layout of the game almost forces you into an overpowered car because the only time you get a good race is when you have a car that is roughly evenly matched with the 1 fastest car in the race. However if you are matched with him, chances are you can't burn through the pack fast enough to catch him early and once he has put 10 seconds on your position, it's almost impossible to make up 10 seconds in an evenly matched card (at least it should be).

It's almost as if the game is built specifically to discourage racing with a well matched car.

(I'll cut n paste myself in this time)

Well, but this is different from "that other Gran Turismo clone" how?

When you have a car game which is built around the concept of racing a range of sports cars, this never works perfectly, and since there are only two such games which I'm aware of, the choices are pretty limited.

In both Forza and Gran Turismo, the bots drive to less than 100% of the cars performance to give you a chance. HOWEVER, because of the physics of modding cars, by this very nature you're throwing variables into the mix which will vary things often dramatically. And this is in both games.

In both, if the lead bot has a BMW and you have the exact same model with no mods, and you race with no mistakes, chances are you should beat it every race. And by the way, bots in both games basically clutter up the field.

If the bot has a BMW and you have a Mustang with roughly the same power, neither car will behave the same or have the same characteristics, so it's a crapshoot as to whether they'll have similar lap times, or one will have a distinct advantage. I don't think you guys trying to match cars really understand the headaches which real world motorsports leagues go through to homologate different cars to make them roughly equivalent. Expecting some magic formula to use with hundreds of sports cars in a racing game which strives for realism is an exercise in frustration. If it's easier in Forza... well, I think that says something.

 

[t.o.]

Native support for 900 degree steering wheel and H-gate shifter and clutch?

Does FM3 support the Fanatec clutch and 6 speed shifter?

FM3 does all of this. Both first and second question. Infact, FM3 supports the 6 speed better than GT5. The clutch isn't an "on/off' switch like it is in GT5. You also can grind your gears and damage your car with improper shifts and such. Until they patch this in GT5 it has taken all desire to use the clutch for me in this game. Takes you TOTALLY out of the immersion factor.

 

[xxRHOxx]

"What does GT5 have over FM3?"

It had time, but it still couldn't satisfy a lot of aspects which FM3 still had when that was released months beforehand.

 

[Bogie 19th]

The ability to take a Dodge Viper or Lexus LFA and make it AWD in Forza 3 killed the game for me.

Never killed it for me. I just chose to NOT use the AWD in those (and other) cars.

I really do think that people are nit-picking GT5 because of their own expectations for the game.

We are nitpicking because it's hosed on so many levels. And we are the diehard GT fans.

I can invite people to a private race in Forza too. GTs leaderboards are better though.

Leaderboards?

Maybe he bought it at the same place you got your completely different FM3 game than that which everyone else has? I just have the FM3 collectors edition. Mine has questionable physics and no sign of 360 calcs/sec when actually driving. Where did you get your super duper Teamxbox FM3 edition?

At least FM3 got rid of the arcade style endless 360's when barely scraping your paint on the oval wall, I'll give them that at least.

Classic 👍

 

[t.o.]

We are nitpicking because it's hosed on so many levels. And we are the diehard GT fans.

This is what I call a TRUE fan. You know what you wanted from the game, was told was going to be the game, and what was expected of the game and all 3 did not add up.

I saw someone post GT5 has better replay than FM3 as a point. Come on, no controls, less camera angles than FM3 which really surprised me and no ability to upload or create video and GT5's replay is better? Sticking a camera in front of a TV to get video is NEVER better.

 

[Spagetti69]

Yeah the one that has my times on it.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Yeah the one that has my times on it.

Dang, when did they patch in leaderboards?

 

[Spagetti69]

Dang, when did they patch in leaderboards?

Haven't got a clue but I'm
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th
10th

Good ain't I.

 

[NOS Waster]

FM3 does all of this. Both first and second question. Infact, FM3 supports the 6 speed better than GT5. The clutch isn't an "on/off' switch like it is in GT5. You also can grind your gears and damage your car with improper shifts and such. Until they patch this in GT5 it has taken all desire to use the clutch for me in this game. Takes you TOTALLY out of the immersion factor.

For the last time: IT IS NOT AN ON/OFF SWITCH
Slightly push the clutch in and it will slip some. It will grab more and more as people slowly let off the clutch. Don't know where you thought of this, but stop spreading around misinformation.
1: It doesn't help anyone
2: It's against the AUP

 

[xxRHOxx]

For the last time: IT IS NOT AN ON/OFF SWITCH
Slightly push the clutch in and it will slip some. It will grab more and more as people slowly let off the clutch. Don't know where you thought of this, but stop spreading around misinformation.
1: It doesn't help anyone
2: It's against the AUP

Umm Wasteman i think it is a matter of what he has experienced.

 

[NOS Waster]

Umm Wasteman i think it is a matter of what he has experienced.

1: It's Waster
2: Then what he has experienced didn't go in depth enough to test if the clutch was properly implemented, which it is.

 

[Doughnut]

FM3 does all of this. Both first and second question. Infact, FM3 supports the 6 speed better than GT5. The clutch isn't an "on/off' switch like it is in GT5. You also can grind your gears and damage your car with improper shifts and such. Until they patch this in GT5 it has taken all desire to use the clutch for me in this game. Takes you TOTALLY out of the immersion factor.

The clutch in Forza 3 is no where near realistic at all. If you use a controller all you do is tap a button before the shift happens, doesn't matter when you tap it as long as it's before the gear changes. So yeah real big immersion factor there...I have not used the clutch in GT5 as I don't have a wheel yet, so I can't comment GT5's clutch.

 

[BlackTimberwolf]

My thoughts on what GT5 does better:

• Variety; rain, night, rally, karting - it may not always be realised to its full potential but it's there and if you want to hoon around a gravel track in an old Bluebird, you can.
• The "feel" of the cars is better. Forza 3 pulls some impressive tricks under the hood, particularly tyre sidewall deformation, but on the everyday cars it does feel a bit like they all come with track day tyres and aftermarket stiffened anti-roll bars from the factory. It's a shame because even if Turn 10 want to avoid alienating casual players, it wouldn't be beyond their abilities to put in "comfort tyres" and "comfort suspension" in the upgrade options as per previous GT games. They even have the PI system to avoid the problem of the player's car suddenly becoming hopelessly uncompetitive!
• Trial Mountain. Just, Trial Mountain.
• The left-field car choices. It's funny, because that's one of the things people kvetch about the most, but I find a big part of the appeal of GT games were the things like battling Nissan Micras round Autumn Ring on N1 tyres. They might seem annoying when they're in the game and the Hypergani Itallardo XT9 RS isn't, but any Forza player will tell you that endless supercars are only fun for so long. (And don't just take my word for it, look at what got voted into the community car pack.)
• That course maker. Even if it's a bit half-baked, it's massively better than, er, nothing.
• PD tried to make a full realtime lighting and shadowing engine. This is a debatable one as it looks like the PS3 can't handle the shadow buffer resolution the engine deserves and there's a fair amount of criticism as a result, but as someone who's done a fair bit of 3D programming I can see what they've tried to do, and if the hardware had the memory for it, those wonky shadows would be jaw-dropping. Forza's lighting model is nothing more than a typical play-by-numbers current gen effort.
• You can swap between an H-gate and paddle shift car when playing on a wheel without having to mess about in the options.
• On high level races, hitting the grass has a realistic effect. I might have sworn at it many a time, but I can't deny it's much more realistic than Forza's slight loss of traction.
• For something that was PD's bane in the past, they've made progress towards eliminating the slow field with one insanely fast "rabbit" car this time round. It still happens in some events, but it's not the joke it used to be - by contrast, Forza's AI list seems to include a "rabbit" in almost everything, turning an already limited 7 opponents into just 1 if you want to have any shot at winning the race.

That's about all for now. I could think of more, no doubt, but this is a long enough list already. On balance I'd still say I prefer the "other game" as a game, for various reasons, but that's not the thread title. It does surprise me how blinkered some of the opinions are, though - even if you have to pick just one poison, they're both very good racing games and I find it hard to see how someone who loves one can't appreciate what the other does even if they're not a fan of the overall style. Still, takes all sorts, I guess!

 

[Spagetti69]

Are you saying the clutch slips?

 

[Spagetti69]

The clutch in Forza 3 is no where near realistic at all. If you use a controller all you do is tap a button before the shift happens, doesn't matter when you tap it as long as it's before the gear changes. So yeah real big immersion factor there...I have not used the clutch in GT5 as I don't have a wheel yet, so I can't comment GT5's clutch.

Your seriously comparing a clutch to a button press.

 

[NOS Waster]

Are you saying the clutch slips?

I have experienced clutch slipping when i accidentally rested my foot on the clutch pedal a little.

 

[Doughnut]

Your seriously comparing a clutch to a button press.

That's how Forza 3 is....there is no comparing going on. Almost all the top drivers in Forza 3 (atleast when I was still active) all used the controller because you gain a huge advantage over wheel users with shift times. Maybe it has changed sense then, but I don't see how.

 

[Noz]

how can u compare a game with an other if its not finished?
there are so many updates comming that increases the gameplay or the grafix or something else, when both games are at the end of there lifeline then its time to think, which one was the better one but for now its just an uneven battle between 2 realy good driving games!

 

[Spagetti69]

I'm sure he was referring to using a pedal not a button press.
I used the MS wheel so I still had to press the stupid button.

Edit* nos. Lots of people compared the two before GT was even released.
Maybe better to compare GT to Forza 4. All the patches should be out by then.

 

[xxRHOxx]

how can u compare a game with an other if its not finished?
there are so many updates comming that increases the gameplay or the grafix or something else, when both games are at the end of there lifeline then its time to think, which one was the better one but for now its just an uneven battle between 2 realy good driving games!

In other words it will be IMPROVED but not COMPLETED, you see the differnce lad? Forza 3 didnt take half a decade but doesn't have 800 ps2 cars either?

 

[NOS Waster]

Me thinks we have a forza fan in here.