What does GT5 have over FM3?

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t.o.
snip to save space
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Let's see.
You do seem to have a lot of experience with manual transmissions.
I'm only going to outline a few things that could be reasons as to why the Clutch in GT5 seems weird.
In real life you receive cues with your senses on how to drive the car without killing it.
NO racing sim can simulate those clues because the Clutch pedal and shifters provide no sort of feedback to know when the clutch is slipping.
Also, while the gears "grind" in Forza, i have tried to perform many shifts in forza that IRL would not necessarily need the clutch. The gears would still grind.
I would say that both games need a lot of work.

Driving a more modern car with a newer clutch can result in more success. I drive a 2005 (not really modern, but it isn't old as my dad's Mazda B2200) Toyota Camry. I can get roughly the same feel in this car because it has a synchro transmission and GT5 seems like it is trying to simulate a synchro transmission.

While i will not discount your experience with driving manuals, it appears that GT5 is only trying to simulate a transmission with synchronizer rings instead of the many types of transmissions that have existed. While comparing this to the Camry's clutch, i think it feels very similar.

If they would try to simulate the other transmission types and if we got better hardware to help us out, then it would be much better.

(Note: I am only trying to discuss, and do NOT want to start an argument.)
 
Spagetti69
I can invite people to a private race in Forza too.

GTs leaderboards are better though. My Forza leaderboards are filled with people like AJ the boy and Daveyskills, people who I don't know.

Atleast in GT I'm top of all leaderboards. Oh and bottom and middle too.
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Lol. I hope you don't mind, but I quoted this post on my teams website. I am sure AJ The Boy will get a smile out of it. You may not know him, but if you ever met him I am sure you would like him ;)

You make a great point though. Many people complained because Turn 10 removed the local leaderboards in Forza 3. Bizarre decision to say the least......
 
NOS Waster
Let's see.
You do seem to have a lot of experience with manual transmissions.
I'm only going to outline a few things that could be reasons as to why the Clutch in GT5 seems weird.
In real life you receive cues with your senses on how to drive the car without killing it.
NO racing sim can simulate those clues because the Clutch pedal and shifters provide no sort of feedback to know when the clutch is slipping.
Also, while the gears "grind" in Forza, i have tried to perform many shifts in forza that IRL would not necessarily need the clutch. The gears would still grind.
I would say that both games need a lot of work.

Driving a more modern car with a newer clutch can result in more success. I drive a 2005 (not really modern, but it isn't old as my dad's Mazda B2200) Toyota Camry. I can get roughly the same feel in this car because it has a synchro transmission and GT5 seems like it is trying to simulate a synchro transmission.

While i will not discount your experience with driving manuals, it appears that GT5 is only trying to simulate a transmission with synchronizer rings instead of the many types of transmissions that have existed. While comparing this to the Camry's clutch, i think it feels very similar.

If they would try to simulate the other transmission types and if we got better hardware to help us out, then it would be much better.

(Note: I am only trying to discuss, and do NOT want to start an argument.)
Click to expand...
Note taken. That's the only thing I'm trying to do also. That and get these games to progress for one of them to TRULY be the one and only racing/driving sim you'll ever need. (It's the holiday season, I'm allowed to dream). I haven't driven anything with a newer transmission with any real seat time so I can't comment on that and can only to defer those who have like yourself and others I race with. I did have a suggestion of real life versus game but GT5 doesn't have Porsche. A guy I know online.. well forget it, long story that doesn't help us any. lol. I'll see if I can find baseline vehicles that's in both games and someone owns in real life. What I can also do, although it wont be anywhere near "empirical" (well I guess my definition it would be. HAHA!) is drive the 87 Civic in GT5 again this time with the clutch (yeah, I was THAT turned off with GT5's clutch I didn't bother using it for anything after the few days I tried it) and hope like hell there's a comparable model in FM3 and see how that feels. I suggest that vehicle for myself because I loved that car and was most "tuned-in" to it of all cars. Don't ask what I did to the 2 Duty Vans. Note I say 2 for a one week duty, only 2 because they wouldn't give me a 3rd. So for a few days I was the duty driver with no van.

Maybe I can rent something they both have and then give an opinion. I would like to bring others in the debate who have the knowledge you have and get their take on both in regards to what you're talking about. I think it would be powerful and might lead to some suggestions. Who knows. Maybe one or both of us have some settings off in either game. In any case great having an "intelligent" convo. Like a breath of fresh air.
 
t.o.
Note taken. That's the only thing I'm trying to do also. That and get these games to progress for one of them to TRULY be the one and only racing/driving sim you'll ever need. (It's the holiday season, I'm allowed to dream). I haven't driven anything with a newer transmission with any real seat time so I can't comment on that and can only to defer those who have like yourself and others I race with. I did have a suggestion of real life versus game but GT5 doesn't have Porsche. A guy I know online.. well forget it, long story that doesn't help us any. lol. I'll see if I can find baseline vehicles that's in both games and someone owns in real life. What I can also do, although it wont be anywhere near "empirical" (well I guess my definition it would be. HAHA!) is drive the 87 Civic in GT5 again this time with the clutch (yeah, I was THAT turned off with GT5's clutch I didn't bother using it for anything after the few days I tried it) and hope like hell there's a comparable model in FM3 and see how that feels. I suggest that vehicle for myself because I loved that car and was most "tuned-in" to it of all cars. Don't ask what I did to the 2 Duty Vans. Note I say 2 for a one week duty.

Maybe I can rent something they both have and then give an opinion. I would like to bring others in the debate who have the knowledge you have and get their take on both in regards to what you're talking about. I think it would be powerful and might lead to some suggestions. Who knows. Maybe one or both of us have some settings off in either game. In any case great having an "intelligent" convo. Like a breath of fresh air.
Click to expand...

I have the same dream. That one day there will be one driving sim that will be the best driving sim.
If i could get the old B2200 fixed, i would get some seat time in a vehicle with an older transmission. It would probably teach me a thing or 2 about clutch finesse :lol:
I think when i get home, i will do some research of the GT5 clutch versus the real thing. Who knows? I probably will find some big discrepancies. (Though i do like that i can stall the car in GT5. That's a nice touch.)

Having a nice conversation is a great occurance on forums. I'm glad it could happen :)
 
Worth to add about AI.

In World Tour I literally killed all this fancy AI race cars on Nordschleife with Viper ACR, cause the best AI time was 8 minutes something, more like suitable for hot hatch category. I say AI in GT5 doesn't shine
 
After playing forza 1, 2, and 3 thouroughly, and becoming very bored on forza 3 if I'm honest after about 2 months, and now playing through GT5 am upto level 33 A spec 22 B spec, both games cannot really be compared to each other too much, The driving in GT I find to be infinatley better than Forza, to me personally all the cars in forza feel the same as each other, using an MS wheel or controller that is, the driving physics in forza have been designed for everyone to be able to have fun, and are not very realistic at all, I mean lets be honest here, On forza the formula for drift is turn out, turn in, touch handbrake, nail throttle, full opposite lock and away you go, and if it stops drifting at all touch handbrake some more.... try doing that on GT, and you will be in the wall every time or have a mad spin, IMO GT5 just does driving better, yes there are some graphical issues with shadows and anti aliasing effects with regards to smoke and water spray, and lets not forget the bodgey "S" cars, but gran turismo in a premium vehicle on any of the new tracks looks simply astonishing, eg driving Nur enduro course when the sun comes up, glistening through the trees, Forza in comparison looks flat and boring, yes Forza has 600+ (with DLC) premium type car models, but compare a forza interior to a GT5 interior, and you can easily see why GT5 is king.
Regardless of the release issues we have encountered, I'm sure most will agree that GT5 is a better driving game than forza..... maybe not quite as fun at times (grinding = fail, Paint = fail, Trying to get FGT from used lot = fail) but when you race with your buddies online on GT5 you'll find it to be a far deeper expereince than forzas driving any day of the week.

the above is just my honest opinion, I love both games, but do believe GT is better for sheer driving experience
 
Hermanvongerman
After playing forza 1, 2, and 3 thouroughly, and becoming very bored on forza 3 if I'm honest after about 2 months, and now playing through GT5 am upto level 33 A spec 22 B spec, both games cannot really be compared to each other too much, The driving in GT I find to be infinatley better than Forza, to me personally all the cars in forza feel the same as each other, using an MS wheel or controller that is, the driving physics in forza have been designed for everyone to be able to have fun, and are not very realistic at all, I mean lets be honest here, On forza the formula for drift is turn out, turn in, touch handbrake, nail throttle, full opposite lock and away you go, and if it stops drifting at all touch handbrake some more.... try doing that on GT, and you will be in the wall every time or have a mad spin, IMO GT5 just does driving better, yes there are some graphical issues with shadows and anti aliasing effects with regards to smoke and water spray, and lets not forget the bodgey "S" cars, but gran turismo in a premium vehicle on any of the new tracks looks simply astonishing, eg driving Nur enduro course when the sun comes up, glistening through the trees, Forza in comparison looks flat and boring, yes Forza has 600+ (with DLC) premium type car models, but compare a forza interior to a GT5 interior, and you can easily see why GT5 is king.
Regardless of the release issues we have encountered, I'm sure most will agree that GT5 is a better driving game than forza..... maybe not quite as fun at times (grinding = fail, Paint = fail, Trying to get FGT from used lot = fail) but when you race with your buddies online on GT5 you'll find it to be a far deeper expereince than forzas driving any day of the week.

the above is just my honest opinion, I love both games, but do believe GT is better for sheer driving experience
Click to expand...

In regards to GT, i have a formula for drifting a Cobra Chrome Line.

Step 1: Turn in
Step 2: Press throttle
Step 3: Profit :sly:

To be honest, I find both games good, but love GT more because i have been a GT fan since GT1.
 
NOS Waster
In regards to GT, i have a formula for drifting a Cobra Chrome Line.

Step 1: Turn in
Step 2: Press throttle
Step 3: Profit :sly:

To be honest, I find both games good, but love GT more because i have been a GT fan since GT1.
Click to expand...

Or winning with the X-1

Step 1: Press throttle halfway
Step 2: Turn appropriately
Step 3: Congratulations you Won.
 
I know that this is a what does GT5 have over FM3 thread, but i want to know if you can have AI online in GT5. I know you can in FM3. I hope so, as me and a friend of mine don't really like to race others online due to the constant ramming and bad racing in general.

Thanks
 
Last time I checked 5 was 2 numbers above 3.

Making the difference between GT5 and FM3 obvious.:dopey:

/thread

(actually, i'm getting FM3 free with a TG Subscription this year!) FREE LUNCH BOYS!
 
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Well as i've played Forza extensively I can easily sum up the difference between the two games.

Without doubt GT5 blows Forza away with regards to the graphics, physics. However in some respects GT5 is very outdated and miles behind even Forza 2. The main reason is playing the single player on GT5 becomes boring and repetative and I feel like im playing back in the 1990s.

Now im of the opinion that even on single player all racing games should have leaderboards. So on GT5 the special events, licence tests, A Spec all should of had leaderboards You may ask how this would work and I will explain. Take for example the Dream car championship in the extreme series. Well each race should of had a leaderboard and then there should of been an overall leaderboard for the Dream car championship. Then all events in the extreme series should have this and then you could have an overall leaderboard for the extreme series. Now if you did this on all of A Spec including the endurances you could then have an overall leaderboard for A Spec.

This is what they did on FM2 career and it was brilliant. Recently I found myself at level 27 after getting gold on everything i.e licence,specials,A spec but I was still massively short of EXP because I wanted to get to level 30 for the Vettel challenge. I cannot tell you how boring it was to keep running the Indy endurance race. However if A Spec had leaderboards then it wouldn't of been a chore and I would of enjoyed re-running events competing against my friends overall times.

So in some respects GT5 is miles ahead but in some respects its miles behind. I noticed earlier someone started a thread asking members to post their laptimes. Well im sorry but this is absolutely pathetic and you shouldn't have to do this in this day and age of gaming.
 
Yeah IVOR, I remember being a multi millionaire in Test Drive due to rerunning my times so often to try and take the top spot on the LB. If GT 5 had career leaderboards, you could reach level 40 without even noticing, just by rerunning many of the series in order to try and be one of the fastest. As it is now though, I am at level 25 in A spec and I am starting to feel the grind........
 
TRC factory
Yeah IVOR, I remember being a multi millionaire in Test Drive due to rerunning my times so often to try and take the top spot on the LB. If GT 5 had career leaderboards, you could reach level 40 without even noticing, just by rerunning many of the series in order to try and be one of the fastest. As it is now though, I am at level 25 in A spec and I am starting to feel the grind........
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I forgot about Test Drive but that is another great example. As you know I loved competiting against you guys.

I personally blame Kaz because he doesn't look at other games and how they have moved forward. I might of moaned about FM3 but you cannot fault Dan Greenawalts vision especially with FM2.

Still it isn't just Kaz who is behind the times though. Take for example this forum everyone is worried about trivial things that don't really improve the gameplay. I bet some on here still write their laptimes on a piece of paper. We on the other hand live in the year 2010 and have come to expect leaderboards as standard on all racing games. Frankly ridiculous that we're having to wait for these.
 
I agree with you IVOR, if anything, leaderboards for A-spec races would've made up for the behind-the-times AI.

Kaz is mostly to blame for GT5's shortcomings, being the manager of the project and all.
 
otago
I don't know. I spinned all Canada winter long on ice with all kinds of spins possible.

Catching the car is exactly what you do in Forza 2, after playing the game for a while you do it like in auto mode.

Though never had a chance to spin on dry tarmac, it's quite hard to perform
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I do it all day long with BMW's and i learned it from GT series, never got a crash... And this is not on ice here...
GT games with G25 is best comparable to real life drift oversteering catching.
GTR evolution series does it well too but the snap is wrong in the FFB.
I-racing wants to let you feel so much more so that the basics get lost in the feeling...
Live for speed is better but i don't like the tooney look...
Forza i don't know, but seeing the pc is always correcting what you put in the wheel, it can't be that good i guess.
 
I enjoy both games, not really a HC racer.

1) Many options for wheels. MS has an awesome game (Forza) but really kills it because of the ''ok'' MS wheel.

2) Physics

The one thing that would send GT5 to top of the list for me is if they added a clutch button to map on the wheel. This was my biggest disappointment for me.
 
Pierced Lead
And I think I agree with Devedander, it probably is the shaky camera that gives the sense of immersion in GT5.
Click to expand...

By that logic, NFS Shift should be more immersive than both games. From what I can gather, it's GT5's tyre model that lends the game its sense of immersion.
 
NOS Waster
I have the same dream. That one day there will be one driving sim that will be the best driving sim.
If i could get the old B2200 fixed, i would get some seat time in a vehicle with an older transmission. It would probably teach me a thing or 2 about clutch finesse :lol:
I think when i get home, i will do some research of the GT5 clutch versus the real thing. Who knows? I probably will find some big discrepancies. (Though i do like that i can stall the car in GT5. That's a nice touch.)

Having a nice conversation is a great occurance on forums. I'm glad it could happen :)
Click to expand...
See again this may be between newer clutches and old clutches. What GT5 does isn't a "stall" in the sense of the word or experience I've had with driving clutch. Of course we know we can't get the seat of pants feeling with a game but the whole thing just doesn't act like what I know from a stall. But a true stall is impossible in both games (again as I know it) because neither game shuts the engine off at any point. So what GT5 does is just completely foreign to me. I just haven't been in anything that does that, or at least I haven't messed up in anything that does that. I've driven some "newer" cars but I never messed up in them to know so I just don't know what that would feel like. All this clutch talk is making me miss my standards :( DAMN YOU AUTOMATIC!!!! lol
 
GT has graphics (other than smoke, shadows, and rain/water spray) and physics.

Forza has more in depth tuning and better AI and online.
 
Don't know what you mean with the smoke, the smoke effects are amazing for a racing simulation (except for the "stairs" around the cars).
 
Hermanvongerman
The driving in GT I find to be infinatley better than Forza, to me personally all the cars in forza feel the same as each other
Click to expand...

GT5 driving and physics are not comparable with Forza 2, GT5 feels primitive and outdated.

Each car in Forza 2 drives different, you can immediately spot the difference even between Elise and Speedster besides they share same platform.

Forza 3 is a different story.
 
forza 3's physics are great, they are just let down by the inability to turn off the "active steering" assist. that's where GT5's physics really win out, they have an "off" button for this "feature".
 
porsche 9146
forza 3's physics are great, they are just let down by the inability to turn off the "active steering" assist. that's where GT5's physics really win out, they have an "off" button for this "feature".
Click to expand...

The thing that makes me upset the most about Forza is that they ruined a lot of tracks by making them wider than they actually are to make it more forgiving. And the constant steering assist added to tires that have way too much grip. I love the game, just these things really bother me.
 
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