What update 1.21 proves...

[mattikake]

...that PD are able to quickly fix issues and release a patch any time they want/need, not just as a monthly thing and not part of a trickle feed of additional content.

So this means with the current and well documented serious issues, PD either somehow don't know about them (!?), don't care about them or are not able to fix them and/or have completely wrong priorities and resources allocated within their business.

I find this disturbing.

 

[Flowering00]

Yes, it's seems that they have weird priorities that won't be shared in some kind of road map, so we only gotta wait and see how the game will turn out.
For instance, only in June update 360 degrees camera was added, lastly seen in GT Sport Beta...that came out in ~2016. So, yeah there is that

 

[mattikake]

Like a prime minister running a corrupt and failed party, it's time for Kaz to do the honourable thing and step down and get some fresh blood in imo.

 

[Akwaaba]

It does seem quite strange. If we assume that PD genuinely care for their product, and wants it to be successful, then it is difficult to understand the reasons for the decisions they are making.

One thing I know nothing about is how much play testing is needed before each aspect is changed and updated. I expect that it is quite time and resource intensive.

 

[kraftwerkd]

I'll play devil's advocate here. I've worked in enough commercial software environments - not as a programmer mind you - but enough that I've seen patterns emerge.

For stuff like lobby issues, there could be some underlying problems within the netcode that they just haven't been able to figure out. We do know that they changed scripting languages and built a new one from the ground up for GT7, so any ideas of "well they could just copy/paste whatever they had in GTS" wouldn't hold ground here, because I'd go out on a limb and say the lobby portions utilize at least some scripting events. It could be that they don't even have it fully documented yet, so there's functions and arguments that they're still hashing out how to fully utilize.

It could also be that there are disagreements on what the end-result for certain aspects should be. The simulation model is now a night and day difference from launch, and with each update it almost feels like there's two parties butting heads on how the simulation model should be. This is (in my estimation) why we had RWD cars that wanted to kill you at every turn, why we still have a borked tyre model on everything but Racing slicks and why transmission tuning still doesn't affect PP.

However it is nice knowing that at least at some points along the way, PD can recognize serious issues and get them fixed in a timely manner. Going back to recognizing patterns though, it seems like they focus more on player exploits than actual problems.

 

[BangsMcCoy]

Like a prime minister running a corrupt and failed party, it's time for Kaz to do the honourable thing and step down and get some fresh blood in imo.

I‘m beginning to question his actual involvement and/or care for the GT games anymore. It feels like he’s more detached than involved and he’s letting the engineers and devs make most (maybe even all at this point) of the decisions and there are multiple teams each with their own agendas not communicating and all colliding with little overlap in the direction this game should be headed. There seems to be no real leadership or defined goals/direction. Like he just agrees with everything unless it’s a royally stupid idea that would surely destroy his legacy or something. There’s plenty of reason to think this based on what we continue to see out of this game update after update; there is clearly not 1 single direction everyone is working towards with this game and it is having a negative impact on end user experience.

 

[Real_StiFex]

Like a prime minister running a corrupt and failed party, it's time for Kaz to do the honourable thing and step down and get some fresh blood in imo.

Don’t you want him to also bow in a public venue and proceed to Hara-Kiri ?

I'll play devil's advocate here. I've worked in enough commercial software environments - not as a programmer mind you - but enough that I've seen patterns emerge.

For stuff like lobby issues, there could be some underlying problems within the netcode that they just haven't been able to figure out. We do know that they changed scripting languages and built a new one from the ground up for GT7, so any ideas of "well they could just copy/paste whatever they had in GTS" wouldn't hold ground here, because I'd go out on a limb and say the lobby portions utilize at least some scripting events. It could be that they don't even have it fully documented yet, so there's functions and arguments that they're still hashing out how to fully utilize.

It could also be that there are disagreements on what the end-result for certain aspects should be. The simulation model is now a night and day difference from launch, and with each update it almost feels like there's two parties butting heads on how the simulation model should be. This is (in my estimation) why we had RWD cars that wanted to kill you at every turn, why we still have a borked tyre model on everything but Racing slicks and why transmission tuning still doesn't affect PP.

However it is nice knowing that at least at some points along the way, PD can recognize serious issues and get them fixed in a timely manner. Going back to recognizing patterns though, it seems like they focus more on player exploits than actual problems.

You sir are on the point.
There is different teams inside and different schedule for each. some are busy others less. Some fixes are easy and don’t require much testing other are tricky and can break a whole game and others are just to be invented yet…

The things we cannot deny is that Pd (like many others) are not avare in Patches note and able to communicate in a manner that could help us understand why is it taking them so long for some fixes. Having no dialogue with your users is in that regard less and less adequate at present times.
Just one exemple of a patch note still not being updated
The one about the 2 player mode where the second player can not have is own settings of the dualshock controller and has to use the same as player 1. This « bug » or absence of feature is present since launch. At first it does not seems such a pain to consider allowing the second player to set his own controls since « most » or « all » games knows to do that. But in GT7 here we are…

Just a second example the change of the behavior in the GT Auto when you switched from the custom part shop and the maintenance shop where pressing circle gets you to the world map.

For a neophyte it seems it was just a setting to change in the code but the patch did not came until later. But it could be that they did not think of it during Beta and that did not bothered them at the time since it was working well even if it was not the thing to do logically « user-wise ».

Without an insider we may never know…

 

[Meythia]

I‘m beginning to question his actual involvement and/or care for the GT games anymore. It feels like he’s more detached than involved and he’s letting the engineers and devs make most (maybe even all at this point) of the decisions and there are multiple teams each with their own agendas not communicating and all colliding with little overlap in the direction this game should be headed. There seems to be no real leadership or defined goals/direction. Like he just agrees with everything unless it’s a royally stupid idea that would surely destroy his legacy or something. There’s plenty of reason to think this based on what we continue to see out of this game update after update; there is clearly not 1 single direction everyone is working towards with this game and it is having a negative impact on end user experience.

I do agree, it just doesnt feel like there is "his" dream that is made come true and instead he only puts his name on each paper for marketing reasons. Needless to say: it fails without someone that puts in heart and sweat.
A game shouldnt feel like it basically overturns its ruleset with every few updates (to me it currently does), but instead making subtle yet important changes (which I dont see happening).

 

[pedrocor]

This update proves that somethings are seen as highly priority, like the issue with the Bathurst Mission, although being still doable, just a different kind of experience, some other things that affect our experience at several levels, took ages to solve or still waiting (FFB, ability to sell cars, the whole online experience)

 

[The_Tullster]

I would like to point out that there is a world of difference between changing the tyre wear rate on a mission save file and, for example, diagnosing a significant portion of the tyre physics to make it simulate an extremely complex real world phenomenon with greater fidelity. The former is a setting that any of us could change in less than a minutes if it were accessible. The latter requires an in depth understanding of programming, real world physics and materials science and may require months of work to improve the performance.

 

[TT92]

I would like to point out that there is a world of difference between changing the tyre wear rate on a mission save file and, for example, diagnosing a significant portion of the tyre physics to make it simulate an extremely complex real world phenomenon with greater fidelity. The former is a setting that any of us could change in less than a minutes if it were accessible. The latter requires an in depth understanding of programming, real world physics and materials science and may require months of work to improve the performance.

Can I point out 2 significant facts here. Assetto Corsa Comp. has an excellent tyre model (with tyre temps and pressures!) and PD have partnered with Michelin so that they CAN understand how a tyre works.

It seems a small studio can nail it while a Sony backed larger one with over 20 years experience still can't :-(

 

[lqpl]

Fastest patch ever-

What happened to " they have to wait 2 weeks for sony to approve patch "

6 months later its now branded


--KNOWN ISSUES 7--

-FIND THE TIME-

 

[Famine]

Fastest patch ever-

Not even the fastest GT7 patch.

What happened to " they have to wait 2 weeks for sony to approve patch "

That went away about four years ago.

Did you miss the 1.08 update 34 hours after the 1.07 update which took the game offline?

 

[Real_StiFex]

Not even the fastest GT7 patch.

That went away about four years ago.

Did you miss the 1.08 update 34 hours after the 1.07 update which took the game offline?

Yep I remember that sad time

 

[smoothbore12]

What update 1.21 proves...

Sometimes instead the field , the ball goes at the stands .
So, we need to play with new ball .
As for the " game " itself ?
The opinions are vary but at least we have a ball to go on .

 

[Boxster]

Fastest patch ever-

What happened to " they have to wait 2 weeks for sony to approve patch "

6 months later its now branded


--KNOWN ISSUES 7--

-FIND THE TIME-

A common misunderstanding about democracy is that the government has to do what you want.
A common misunderstanding about free markets is that a supplier has to do what you want.

 

[OldandSlow]

Can I point out 2 significant facts here. Assetto Corsa Comp. has an excellent tyre model (with tyre temps and pressures!) and PD have partnered with Michelin so that they CAN understand how a tyre works.

It seems a small studio can nail it while a Sony backed larger one with over 20 years experience still can't :-(

Sony and PD can, but choose not to. It appears to be a resource, (money) allocation issue.

 

[eran0004]

...that PD are able to quickly fix issues and release a patch any time they want/need, not just as a monthly thing and not part of a trickle feed of additional content.

Most GT7 updates so far have been hotfixes. Why does this particular update suddenly prove that they can do that?

 

[Live25]

Don’t take this the wrong way as I thoroughly enjoy the community here and believe it is an invaluable resource for fans of the franchise. The simple fact that PD doesn’t run their own forum on their own website to communicate with their customers really gives the perception that they don’t actually care what we think. Then when they do make changes that do not align with what the player-base has vocally expressed a desire for, it only reinforces that perception. As far as we know, PD doesn’t monitor what happens here at all. THAT is their biggest problem at the moment.

 

[anh165]

It's not about making things right, Sony already have your money and they owe you jack.

They just want more market share - i.e attract more new gamers, this will always take priority over paying a bunch of developers to fix test and fix bugs in a game they have made money over already.

 

[OJBrit]

...that PD are able to quickly fix issues and release a patch any time they want/need, not just as a monthly thing and not part of a trickle feed of additional content.

So this means with the current and well documented serious issues, PD either somehow don't know about them (!?), don't care about them or are not able to fix them and/or have completely wrong priorities and resources allocated within their business.

I find this disturbing.

All it proves that fixing the tyre wear in 1 event is relatively simple to do, so why wait? They even put another fix in with it!

 

[Eggstor]

Don’t take this the wrong way as I thoroughly enjoy the community here and believe it is an invaluable resource for fans of the franchise. The simple fact that PD doesn’t run their own forum on their own website to communicate with their customers really gives the perception that they don’t actually care what we think. Then when they do make changes that do not align with what the vocal player-base has expressed a desire for, it only reinforces that perception. As far as we know, PD doesn’t monitor what happens here at all. THAT is their biggest problem at the moment.

Two letters - EA

EA hosts forums where they don't listen to the gripes and legitimate bug reports from their users.

 

[Live25]

Two letters - EA

EA hosts forums where they don't listen to the gripes and legitimate bug reports from their users.

That’s one example where they don’t, ActiVision would be another. In my experience, the majority of developers actually do. At the very least, they attempt to provide the rationale for their more unpopular choices.

FWIW, that’s EXACTLY why I don’t buy EA or AV products.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

Ok now here I disagree. Sure, you can claim they've done no wrong on a technicality however you're hyperfocusing on a single word (or lack of a word) while ignoring the entire context, and context is just a wee bit important.

It was/is stated that "you can buy, tune, race and sell your way through a solo campaign". Buy what? Tune what? Race what? Sell what? They haven't explicitly stated anything here, but it's not reaching at all to say that the obvious subject matter being implied is cars; "buy [cars], tune [cars], race [cars], sell [cars]..." Do you think they decided to suddenly switch subject matter mid-sentence as soon as "sell" was mentioned? Even if they did, it still begs the question: sell what, exactly? So please, give me another reasonable interpretation of this, I'll wait...

I find it rather insulting to suggest that we're somehow at fault of wrongly inferring they were talking about cars...

Yep. Still a bunch of cars that I don't want and will never use though. Rather have the credits.

Exactly. How in the world some people here are actually trying to argue some form of "semantics" with that statement, or misinterpretation, is beyond me. In fact, regardless of the context, be it cars, parts, or whatever, the statement is still false because you can't sell anything.

It is, quite clearly, without any shadow of doubt, that the statement is refered to cars. What else can it be in that context? You don't have to be Einstein to figure this out.

And it doesn't matter if it was Sony or PD who made that statement, it's in the game's back cover, it's there. Yet it's completely false. All under the pretense that they will add it later... at a time THEY THINK is right for reasons being, no more, than profit driven and anti-consumer. This can be in 1 year, 2 years or even by the time the game is dying. ... Matter of fact is... 6, or rather, make it 7 months since we won't have an update before the end of September, have passed and still nothing.

It astonishes me how can anyone defend this.

 

[kraftwerkd]

Exactly. How in the world some people here are actually trying to argue some form of "semantics" with that statement, or misinterpretation, is beyond me. In fact, regardless of the context, be it cars, parts, or whatever, the statement is still false because you can't sell anything.

It is, quite clearly, without any shadow of doubt, that the statement is refered to cars. What else can it be in that context? You don't have to be Einstein to figure this out.

And it doesn't matter if it was Sony or PD who made that statement, it's in the game's back cover, it's there. Yet it's completely false. All under the pretense that they will add it later... at a time THEY THINK is right for reasons being, no more, than profit driven and anti-consumer. This can be in 1 year, 2 years or even by the time the game is dying. ... Matter of fact is... 6, or rather, make it 7 months since we won't have an update before the end of September, have passed and still nothing.

It astonishes me how can anyone defend this.

We can call a spade a spade at this point - misleading advertising.

 

[Greycap]

Then when they do make changes that do not align with what the vocal player-base has expressed a desire for, it only reinforces that perception.

Bolded the problematic part. The vocal part of people is so often comprised of such morons that it's just good that they get ignored.

The textbook example of this being the FFB disaster we're still suffering from. The original FFB in GT7 was a poor showing, then it was completely revamped and became great in one night, but the small amount of extremely loud people who have little to no idea about how the steering feel dynamically changes with speed and downforce loading - and who think that heavy FFB automatically equals good FFB - made so much noise in every available channel that PD was forced to revert the changes and come up with the emergency lie about reducing power to prevent injury. It was a legitimate FFB update and the correct thing, from the developer's point of view, would have been to keep it and tell the complainers to 🤬 off but of course it would have been extremely bad PR so they had no other choice than to go back to the previous version and ruin the experience for everyone because a small minority screamed loud enough.

 

[Famine]

How in the world some people here are actually trying to argue some form of "semantics" with that statement, or misinterpretation, is beyond me.

Largely because it's appropriate to do so. It does not specifically mention cars in that statement. Although nobody said anything about "misinterpretation".

In fact, regardless of the context, be it cars, parts, or whatever, the statement is still false because you can't sell anything.

A point that the "some people" made when stating the previous item also:

Actually... it wasn't. Selling was (or rather "sell" if I remember the blurb correctly - "buy, tune, race and sell your way", with no Oxford comma), but selling cars specifically wasn't. Slightly academic as you can't sell anything at all, but an important distinction if you're going to be making an argument (or, as has been posited several times, a lawsuit) based on it.

It is, quite clearly, without any shadow of doubt, that the statement is refered to cars. What else can it be in that context? You don't have to be Einstein to figure this out.

The context of the original discussion was the constant misinformation that "selling cars" was advertised, and using that as a basis for a class action suit (which doesn't exist in UK law, but I digress). It wasn't, and it makes the pursuit of such avenues on the basis of something inferred rather... fraught.

Being accurate with your language is really rather important. You cannot act on the basis of what you think words mean but what words were used.

And it doesn't matter if it was Sony or PD who made that statement

Again, it very much does. PD develops the game, Sony promotes it. If Sony promotes it with a feature the developer hasn't developed, the developer is not at fault, so directing anger at the developer for not doing a thing the promoter said is misdirection.

You need to try to hold Sony to account for words it actually used, rather than holding PD to account for words you thought were used by Sony.

it's in the game's back cover, it's there

I don't know if this differs in other regions and other versions, but it's not on my UK 25AE...

Spoiler: Full rear cover, just for completeness

It astonishes me how can anyone defend this.

Pointing out that people are hinging their arguments off words never used and aiming their anger at the wrong responsible party is not defending "this".

Going after PD for your interpretation of what Sony said doesn't make sense. Go after PD for not adding selling cars yet like it said it would do "near-term" six months ago.

 

[Arkseven]

transmission tuning still doesn't affect PP.

If I remember correctly, it used to. Tuning transmission was one way to set the Dodge Tomahawk below 600pp, right?

I think that's why it doesn't affect PP anymore. Not only the Tomahawk got "nerfed", but many other weird transmission setups with Gr.1 and Gr.2 cars.

 

[Live25]

Bolded the problematic part. The vocal part of people is so often comprised of such morons that it's just good that they get ignored.

The textbook example of this being the FFB disaster we're still suffering from. The original FFB in GT7 was a poor showing, then it was completely revamped and became great in one night, but the small amount of extremely loud people who have little to no idea about how the steering feel dynamically changes with speed and downforce loading - and who think that heavy FFB automatically equals good FFB - made so much noise in every available channel that PD was forced to revert the changes and come up with the emergency lie about reducing power to prevent injury. It was a legitimate FFB update and the correct thing, from the developer's point of view, would have been to keep it and tell the complainers to 🤬 off but of course it would have been extremely bad PR so they had no other choice than to go back to the previous version and ruin the experience for everyone because a small minority screamed loud enough.

Well, I was specifically referring to this community in particular and while I can agree that I have seen a fair share of moronic suggestions here, by and large, the majority seem to be of a similar mind-set.

I would say that was a situation whre they took the opinions of a select few and was not representative of what the community wanted as a whole. I certainly don’t recall a ton of threads here calling for drastic changes to be made as a result of injuries due to FFB, I remember ONE thread and that member was heavily ridiculed for it. They listened to the lawyers on that one is my bet when they should have gone out and hired more competent litigators instead.

 

[Chevy Heavy]

Can I point out 2 significant facts here. Assetto Corsa Comp. has an excellent tyre model (with tyre temps and pressures!) and PD have partnered with Michelin so that they CAN understand how a tyre works.

It seems a small studio can nail it while a Sony backed larger one with over 20 years experience still can't :-(

Assetto Corsa is more of a simulation than GT7. Your average GT player isn't really concerned with things like tire temp and pressure. I'm sure the majority, myself included struggle with car setups. Also, ACC only has 2 classes of cars, both race cars to worry about modeling tires for. Whereas GT7 has everything from low powered street cars to Gr1 and F1. People complained that running a no stop race was too easy, so PD responded with more tire wear. As I said with the variety of cars it probably isn't as easy to implement as many would believe.