What will it be of GT once Kaz retires or well...

[avens]

Do you have a link with the tracks? Couldn't find it myself.

Do you have a link that states FIA has a testing procedure for virtual/digital/videogame tracks?

Do you have a link that proves FIA has its own proprietary software to run simulations/virtual driving? I know teams do have their own sims (based on rFactor pro), which is very much documented with videos and all, but this is the first time I hear of FIA having one of their own.

This whole thing is assumption after assumption. We are assuming those are the tracks, then that FIA has a procedure for the certification of videogame tracks (which is not included in their website at least), then that FIA ran tests based on what they do for real life tracks; and all that without a single source.

No more walls of texts. Just links.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Not my problem, really.

It is your problem, really. You are claiming some kind of inside knowledge of how virtual track certification works, but have yet to provide a single shred of evidence related to virtual track certification.

While that too is not my problem, I'll help you out. Bathurst, Brands Hatch, Suzuka and Silverstone.

Link please.

That one is really not my problem, but you can try tagging Amar, I'm sure he still torture-reads this forum. Or PMing the other guy at NeoGAF.

You mean Amar who thought GT6 was on PS4?

 

[cutmeamango]

This whole thing is assumption after assumption.

Do you have a link with the tracks? Couldn't find it myself.

You are awful at reading AND googling?

Thus, late last year motor sport’s governing body began the process of homologating circuits within Gran Turismo, bringing the game’s tracks into line with the FIA’s safety guidelines. Silverstone, Suzuka, Brands Hatch and Australia’s Bathurst (home of the 1000km V8 Supercars race) were the first to meet the FIA’s standards.

Google.

Do you have a link that states FIA has a testing procedure for virtual/digital/videogame tracks?

That I already knew, you are awful at reading, but maybe fourth time is the charm.

“The aim was to look at the circuits they have digitised as if they are real circuits,” explains Jacques Berger, head of the FIA’s Safety Department. “When we went to Japan we went through all the circuits they have built and checked all the details – track width, the size of the run-off areas, the kind of debris fencing used, the kerbs etc.

Do you have a link that proves FIA has its own proprietary software to run simulations/driving? I know teams do have their own sims (based on rFactor pro), which is very much documented with videos and all, but this is the first time I hear of FIA having one of their own.

Nowhere did I say they have a software to drive on, but sure. I sure do!
Won't link it though, not my problem.

All outputs of the Apex simulator are comparable to that of the FIA’s own Circuit Safety Assessment Software (CSAS). This important tool provides confidence in the design of circuits which can be known to be in accordance with contemporary circuit safety guidelines issued by the FIA, which acts as the safety benchmark for this project.

- Teams use rfPro (which is not the same as rFactor pro) as a graphical front.
But I suppose some people can use rFactor pro too, not aware of its license rules really, even if again, not the same.

It is your problem, really. You are claiming some kind of inside knowledge of how virtual track certification works, but have yet to provide a single shred of evidence related to virtual track certification.

> >

Link please.

You mean Amar who thought GT6 was on PS4?

Sure?
I'll help you out: The claim that Nurburgring was laser-scanned is his. If anyone can provide proof or a location where you might find it or just an explanation on how he knows that, is him.

 

[Doomotron]

It depends. If a new developer takes over and ruins the game (Like Sumo Digital and Little Big Planet 3), I would just play old titles. If, however, they make a brilliant game, then I will buy it.

 

[avens]

What is the source of those quotes? Asked for links.

And you only replied to the circuits question, but dismissed all the others asked by myself and everyone here. Where is the regulation of FIA's virtual track testing? Not asking for a quote, asking for the regulation. What's your source that FIA ran a virtual simulation to test the track, as you stated expressly in your previous post?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Sure?
I'll help you out: The claim that Nurburgring was laser-scanned is his. If anyone can provide proof or a location where you might find it or just an explanation on how he knows that, is him.

Little tip for you. If you make a claim, it's not up to me or anyone else to do the googling and provide the links, that's your job. Another tip: Quotes are not links. When someone asks for a link they want to see the source info so they can see the whole context, not just a selective quote that you choose to put up.

 

[Samus]

This is the source for that Jacques Berger quote - http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/auto8.pdf

Pages 26-29. I've not had time to read it all myself yet.

 

[citroengt1]

Scaff - Those are great answers, but you missed the point:

And let us not forget the one important thing that GT games always delivered, and that is the surprise element.
Every GT game, as far as i know (i haven't played GT1, GT2 or GT3 to know them, so someone fill those up if you can)
had some surprising content that no one expected nor wanted, but we all enjoyed anyway

I'm talking about content that was included in these games that no one expected, but had fun playing
with it anyway.I never wrote these game contents were first in the mentioned.

 

[Samus]

Scaff - Those are great answers, but you missed the point:


I'm talking about content that was included in these games that no one expected, but had fun playing
with it anyway.I never wrote these game contents were first in the mentioned.

Well it's quite the stretch to say everyone enjoyed them. I did not enjoy the Moon driving whatsoever and I don't think I'm alone.

 

[Scaff]

Scaff - Those are great answers, but you missed the point:


I'm talking about content that was included in these games that no one expected, but had fun playing
with it anyway.I never wrote these game contents were first in the mentioned.

Well I can only speak for myself and I don't recall being surprised by features that had been present in other titles before.

Well actually one was a surprise, the moon buggy stuff, but that wasn't a pleasant surprise. In fact if I have to be honest the stuff in GT that had surprised me these most was the stuff that also disappointed. Standard cars and tracks, the move to chase the rabbit events and vanity projects such as Vision and the moon.

 

[Tornado]

For what it's worth, this is what PD had to say about how they modeled tracks circa mid-2003:

Maybe not so helpful (it's a lot more vague than I originally hoped it to be when I remembered the article), but I spent 20 minutes looking for the magazine in question so whatever.

I'm talking about content that was included in these games that no one expected, but had fun playing

GT3's development was covered far too closely by the rags at the time to have anything in the way of real surprises. F1 cars, maybe?

 

[cutmeamango]

For what it's worth, this is what PD had to say about how they modeled tracks circa mid-2003:

Maybe not so helpful (it's a lot more vague than I originally hoped it to be when I remembered the article), but I spent 20 minutes looking for the magazine in question so whatever.

That's really cool. Thanks for the picture. What magazine is that?
I think the possible magazine with the Nurburgring quote is Evo Issue 56 from June 2003.
Or maybe something german.

And there's a GT4 press sheet that has this bit about it:

Each track took six months to build and is accurate to within 15mm
of the real thing
-
Over 30,000 photos were taken of each track
-
Each track has over 40km² modeled from aerial photographs,
GPS satellite photographs, topographical maps and hand measurements.

 

[Tornado]

Game Informer August 2003.

 

[cutmeamango]

Game Informer August 2003.

Thanks.

This is the source for that Jacques Berger quote - http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/auto8.pdf

Pages 26-29. I've not had time to read it all myself yet.

Oh man, you can chew my head off. I did not remember this quote, and I certainly didn't bother reading.

“The FIA had model data that acted as a reference and it was compared with the Gran Turismo tracks to see whether they were accurately represented"

They did send data from the real circuits to PD. I wonder if that's why Brands Hatch has the 2013's kerb in Paddock Hill.

 

[ScottPuss20]

This is the source for that Jacques Berger quote - http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/auto8.pdf

Pages 26-29. I've not had time to read it all myself yet.

That's a very interesting article, and the last quote particularly intrigues me -
“We know that it will be difficult to build due to the computing power necessary. But the possibility is there. Yes, everything is possible" It seems to imply that the online championship was indeed going to be on the PS3. However, because it lacked the computing power, PD felt as thought they had to create a completely new game on the PS4 which will have enough computing power. It leads me to believe that the FIA are pushing PD to get this new online championship underway.

 

[Johnnypenso]

That's a very interesting article, and the last quote particularly intrigues me -
“We know that it will be difficult to build due to the computing power necessary. But the possibility is there. Yes, everything is possible" It seems to imply that the online championship was indeed going to be on the PS3. However, because it lacked the computing power, PD felt as thought they had to create a completely new game on the PS4 which will have enough computing power. It leads me to believe that the FIA are pushing PD to get this new online championship underway.

It wasn't implied the championship would be on PS3 it was announced:
FIA Online Championship begins Spring 2015

 

[Rdp616]

Kaz retiring might be the best thing for GT. He's obviously stubborn and refuses to change his ways, obviously bias to certain car brands, pays almost no attention to what the consumer wants (even if it means life or death to your series). GT is so far behind everyone else it's not even funny..Still using car models from 2002? Come on..It's just pathetic. And the way most of you stick up for him and PD also makes me cringe, it's like that parent that refuses to acknowledge their child's drug problem. Open your eyes, GT7 will sell in mediocre numbers, shortly after Kaz will announce his retirement, and that will be the end of that.

 

[ScottPuss20]

It wasn't implied the championship would be on PS3 it was announced:
FIA Online Championship begins Spring 2015

Yes, it was announced but something obviously went wrong and the quote implies that the FIA will stop at nothing to achieve their goals - even if it means making a new game for another console.

 

[zzz_pt]

Depends...

Even with KAZ in charge I only buy a game if it's good. Up to now that has been the case...

 

[CSLACR]

I find it very hard to believe the game would get anything but better without Kaz, so yes, I would actually be more inclined to future GT titles knowing someone else took over.
Perhaps someone less focused on telling everyone the game is great, and more focused on making it be great.(again)

 

[rronak95]

I will buy a GT game is Kaz leaves. Hopefully then the team at PD won't send their time and money on dumb features, like photo mode and the nighttime sky looking like real life...

 

[JohnBM01]

You know, I actually thought about this as a blog topic for my "John's Race Space" blog. It is kind of like a sports team taking the personality of its head coach. What happens when that main force goes? Obviously, the appeal of the Gran Turismo series would not be the same without Kazunori Yamauchi. He's worked hard all of his life and helped establish the character and the appeal of the Gran Turismo series. And to be quite honest, I don't think there is any more qualified person that will maintain or improve what Kazunori started and established. Someone may be better and may have better visions and philosophies, but it will be nothing like what the original games have shown. For example, what if the next executive producer or somebody wanted to do away with kei cars and lots of Skylines/GT-Rs and decides to have full-on damage and no a bulls:censored: approach to racing? What if the next person wanted to make Gran Turismo more hardcore and more like leading PC racing sims rather than an accessible simulation racer? What if the game had more screaming rock music and almost entirely does away with the more classy jazz and lounge music? It would be better on paper, but some would miss the classic appeal.

My hope is that the series will remain as strong as it has been. For a strong franchise, things can only get better. There's always room for improvement. Whether you love or loathe Gran Turismo, you have to admit it just won't be the same without Kazunori Yamauchi.

 

[Tenacious D]

I'll add to what our old blogger friend John says. If you want Kaz to leave, you want a different game. Save yourselves the trouble and long wait, and buy another game.

 

[1241Penguin]

photo mode and the nighttime sky looking like real life...

The night sky thing I agree with, but photo mode? The GT series has arguably the best photo mode feature in any racing game, ever. And you can honestly spend so much good time with it. With the added livery making capabilities, and Scape, the photo mode in GTS is surely one of the (many) things to look forward to.

 

[Johnnypenso]

You know, I actually thought about this as a blog topic for my "John's Race Space" blog. It is kind of like a sports team taking the personality of its head coach. What happens when that main force goes? Obviously, the appeal of the Gran Turismo series would not be the same without Kazunori Yamauchi. He's worked hard all of his life and helped establish the character and the appeal of the Gran Turismo series. And to be quite honest, I don't think there is any more qualified person that will maintain or improve what Kazunori started and established. Someone may be better and may have better visions and philosophies, but it will be nothing like what the original games have shown. For example, what if the next executive producer or somebody wanted to do away with kei cars and lots of Skylines/GT-Rs and decides to have full-on damage and no a bulls:censored: approach to racing? What if the next person wanted to make Gran Turismo more hardcore and more like leading PC racing sims rather than an accessible simulation racer? What if the game had more screaming rock music and almost entirely does away with the more classy jazz and lounge music? It would be better on paper, but some would miss the classic appeal.

My hope is that the series will remain as strong as it has been. For a strong franchise, things can only get better. There's always room for improvement. Whether you love or loathe Gran Turismo, you have to admit it just won't be the same without Kazunori Yamauchi.

Ok, I'll bite. What would happen if the game had, "full-on damage and no a bulls:censored: approach to racing? What if the next person wanted to make Gran Turismo more hardcore and more like leading PC racing sims rather than an accessible simulation racer?"

I find it odd that @Tenacious D is agreeing with you because he has advocated strongly for the game to be developed in that direction, that is, more towards realistic simulation (some call it "hardcore", but it's actually just realistic) and insists that Kaz is on his side as well and assists can take care of casual users.

 

[Earth]

Gonna make a bold prediction. Kaz will be gone before 2018. He wont go before then because it will be bad press. But GTS will be the last GT game he ever make. Only thing that will save him is huge GTS sales (5m+), and thats a longshot.

Gone in the sense he'll be asked to step down to a lower position in Sony, and someone else will make all the calls on GT.

I have nothing against him, and 4/6 of his full games were phenomenal. But its more then obvious hes run out of ideas or simply burned out. He cant get his studio to produce content in a reasonable time frame. With the budget and time his studio gets theres no excuse for the AI and sound to be so bad for so long. And now the graphics arent even cutting edge anymore, especially compared to small studios like Evolution who have a fraction of the time and budget.

All the advantages GT use to have are gone. Best graphics? Nope. Best car list? Nope. Best track list? Nope. Best physics? Nope. Best career mode? Nope. All have been surpassed by games available on consoles.

Kaz has made his contribution and I will be forever thankful for all the great memories and moments GT1-4 gave me. But its time he stepped down and let someone else with a fresh perspective take GT into the future.

Guys GT is never going to take that 'next step' until theres a change at leadership. Letting Kaz still run things is like keeping a NFL coach around whose gone 2-14 for each of his last three seasons. Expecting a miracle turnaround to his glory days when he went 12-4 every year is not going to happen.

I never like predicting things like this or hoping they happen, but this case is so extreme I dont feel so bad about doing it.

 

[Tenacious D]

I find it odd that @Tenacious D is agreeing with you because he has advocated strongly for the game to be developed in that direction, that is, more towards realistic simulation (some call it "hardcore", but it's actually just realistic) and insists that Kaz is on his side as well and assists can take care of casual users.

I say that, because the game is going in that direction, especially this one. There are some good sims on the market like iRacing, Live For Speed, Assetto Corsa and Race Room, and who has the president of FIA decided to partner with? Which president of a racing game developer is also a professional race car driver? Which console racer is on the verge of becoming a proper racing sim?

Letting Kaz still run things is like keeping a NFL coach around whose gone 2-14 for each of his last three seasons.

2-14 according to who? You are aware, aren't you, that GT6 has sold about as many copies as the first two Forzas on XBO combined? GT5 sold 11 million copies, and is still selling with no online play at all? A game which to many is one of those "2"s? That Kaz is one of the most successful and well respected developers in gaming history? Is involved in actually shaping the sports car and racing worlds? A video game maker?? Yeah, that Kaz, who so many hardcore critics love to hate. Considering that most video game developers would LOVE to be in that dire position, I think this is one more proclamation of demise about as valid as the last hundred.

 

[Earth]

2-14 according to who? You are aware, aren't you, that GT6 has sold about as many copies as the first two Forzas on XBO combined? GT5 sold 11 million copies, and is still selling with no online play at all? A game which to many is one of those "2"s? That Kaz is one of the most successful and well respected developers in gaming history? Is involved in actually shaping the sports car and racing worlds? A video game maker?? Yeah, that Kaz, who so many hardcore critics love to hate. Considering that most video game developers would LOVE to be in that dire position, I think this is one more proclamation of demise about as valid as the last hundred.

D what has Kaz done with GT since the 4th game to take GT to the next level? GT Academy? E-Sports? Those are his biggest accomplishments with Gran Turismo from the PS3 gen onwards, and they have nothing to do with improving the core gameplay.

The series peaked at GT4 - massive car and track list, expansive career mode, new features like photomode and B-Spec mode. Its been downhill ever since.

I would be the first one in line getting hyped about GT getting into e-Sports - if the core of the game was solid. Its not. And all the attention continues to be on 'cool extras' (e-sports, scapes, GT Academy, Vision GT) and not the foundation of the game.

Are you OK with GT Sport, a full featured game that could easily be called GT7 by Kaz's own admission, having a single player mode that is 80% missions and skill tests if not more? Its like they gave up on trying to make a good career mode. This is going backwards, not forwards. GT3 had just a couple dozen more cars and less tracks then GTS but it had one of the best career modes of the entire franchise. Why has the career mode continually been dumbed down to the point now where it barely exists if at all?

How does Kaz explain the car count? What happened to the hundreds of premiums from the PS3? Were they not premium enough to be super premiums? What about a 'super premium' is so great they cant add any normal PS3 premiums? Because based off of what Ive seen maybe 1% of players might notice an actual difference if there is even one to notice.

How does Kaz explain why it took 3 years to make a game with a fraction of the content of it's closest competitor?

If this were a football game GT's main competitor would be winning 35-7. The 7 points is for the FIA thing. The team needs a spark. The starting QB has thrown 4 interceptions. Put in another guy. Anybody.

Unless Kaz has a few rabbits to pull out of his hat at E3 and over the next 6 months, its looking really, really bad.

 

[Tenacious D]

Earth, I think you're fixated on what you want, and ignoring all else. Look, I want a lot of the same things in Gran Turismo too. I'd love to bend reality to my will, take all the content from every serious racer, the physics of GT6, Forza and the best PC sims, real world sounds, the graphics from GT6 and DriveClub, morph them together and call it GT7.

And all those other games aren't selling as well as GT6, which you consider an abject failure.

I think you need to unclench your mind from your wishes enough to understand that SONY and the world don't see things the way you or I do. The gaming world in particular, because they define success, not Metacritic or us, and they seem pretty happy with whatever Kaz throws on the market. Most of them have never been hardcore in any way shape or form, they just want something pretty, cool, and has some cars they like. If it happens to be an awesome game, millions of them might not even notice. That's just life on Earth among the humans.

Gran Turismo is more than a game, it's a weird kind of movement, a love affair with cars and motorsports cloaked in a racing game, and it comes from the psyche of that mad wizard, Kazunori. I'd say Kaz isn't going anywhere, so I'd get used to that and lobby for what you want in Gran Turismo, or adopt a new virtual home.

 

[Sasek]

I have unpopular opinion about this. I think that the game will be developed much faster if the boss (Kaz) will be closer to the development team and project than just traveling around the world and not keeping much attention to dev team work.

I think that changing the boss will help with much faster development of each GT game and I will still buy it.