What would your reaction be if GT5 is released without damage?

[phonypoly]

...there will be "DAMAGE" if the game has no "race sticker" customization (like in Forza2) i'd really enjoy that ....


(off topic: any of you know if there's a PS2/3 game that has the "race stickers" applycation, like in Forza2?) Thanks!

 

[Antti-san]

(off topic: any of you know if there's a PS2/3 game that has the "race stickers" applycation, like in Forza2?) Thanks!

Ferrari Challenge has a vinyl editor a'la Forza. GRID has one too, although it is very basic (that could be said about the whole game, though ). I'm not sure if there are any other racing games for the PS3 that have that feature.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Midnight Club Los Angeles and SuperCar Challenge (when its released).

 

[Antti-san]

Oh yeah, I forgot about Midnight Club.

 

[Tenacious D]

At least it would be realistic. And thats pretty much what its all about when you call your game: "The real driving simulator"

Actually, a good number, perhaps most of the public Forza 2 servers have damage disabled. Can't imagine why. No, I can, I entered a Nurb race and it was almost a frag fest, and this is with just the eight drivers.

 

[Kryz11]

Thats why Damage will be good for PRIVATE room racing.

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

Somehow I don't see punters as having enough attention span to obtain all the licenses as in GT.

 

[mPWRD]

True, which is why they will go online and try to punt everyone off there... I really think that damage should be variable. The extent, and whether it is on off. Kind of like Forza. And I agree with NoxNoctisUmbra... private rooms should be able to choose damage settings as well.

 

[paskowitz]

Somehow I don't see punters as having enough attention span to obtain all the licenses as in GT.

You just made me come up with a great idea. When you beat a license in career mode that becomes your rank. So if you beat the A license you get a rank of A. This rank would then be used to match you with online racers who have the same achievement. In the beginning, sure, it would suck but after a month the weak would be separated from the strong.

 

[911~Lad]

I wouldn't care just as long as the damage was only cosmetic, and didn't effect the performance of the car.

 

[doblocruiser]

i'd rather have an improved penalty system. Damage, I don't care!

 

[swollenmadman]

I wouldn't care just as long as the damage was only cosmetic, and didn't effect the performance of the car.

You must like bouncing off the walls with a statement like that!

The whole point of damage is to force ppl into driving without banging on you and getting away with it.

 

[Kryz11]

You must like bouncing off the walls with a statement like that!

The whole point of damage is to force ppl into driving without banging on you and getting away with it.

Yeah, It will also add SCARE factor into the game. I know in iRacing, when you practice and crash no penalty, but during a race then can take points off so you can not enter championships and what not.. I think that is a really good system. It adds another factor of being nice to another racers.

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

You just made me come up with a great idea. When you beat a license in career mode that becomes your rank. So if you beat the A license you get a rank of A. This rank would then be used to match you with online racers who have the same achievement. In the beginning, sure, it would suck but after a month the weak would be separated from the strong.

That's completely fair. The only exception would be in private rooms if you want to race a lower ranked driver, but open races should be like this.

 

[AutoAki]

Yeah, It will also add SCARE factor into the game. I know in iRacing, when you practice and crash no penalty, but during a race then can take points off so you can not enter championships and what not.. I think that is a really good system. It adds another factor of being nice to another racers.

I can tell that iRacings damage-modelling really makes you drive carefully, and Safety Rating-calculator specially. Not even thought, that I would try pass guy front of me, if I aint totally sure it will be clean pass... before iRacing I never realized how much those few things can change peoples racing-behaviour.

Open practice-rooms are 'free' from SR-calculations, so there you can find your limits, or have your own races with friends without bothering some incidents.

Qualifying and Time-Trial modes also counts SR and iR...

 

[paskowitz]

That's completely fair. The only exception would be in private rooms if you want to race a lower ranked driver, but open races should be like this.

Of course. Private rooms should be as customizable as possible. But this would make a feature like say quick match, or the system we have now much better. If you can lap the ring in a R35 in under 7:30 then guess what you can race with all the other people who are as good as you. I see no reason why this logic wouldn't work.

 

[Kryz11]

I can tell that iRacings damage-modelling really makes you drive carefully, and Safety Rating-calculator specially. Not even thought, that I would try pass guy front of me, if I aint totally sure it will be clean pass... before iRacing I never realized how much those few things can change peoples racing-behaviour.

Open practice-rooms are 'free' from SR-calculations, so there you can find your limits, or have your own races with friends without bothering some incidents.

Qualifying and Time-Trial modes also counts SR and iR...

So during qualify and TT you still have to watch out?

Oh man sounds better and better! Soon Ill get 3 month of it..

I know its bit off topic, but it shows how much I want DAMAGE in GT5.

 

[AutoAki]

So during qualify and TT you still have to watch out?

Yep... it's so great decision from iRacing, to keep everything very realistic. I'm not 'Hotlap-Alien', so this gives better chances to do decent Qualify-run, and have a good grid position.

Off-tracks, spins, and collisions destroys quickly your SR badly, but even you would run total-clear Qualify session, it increase only by few .hundreds... so it's like 'climbing to the tree'. Bit by bit higher, and one 'catastrophe-session' and you will fall down so much as you have messed up. Been there, done that.

I know its bit off topic, but it shows how much I want DAMAGE in GT5.

Me too... half year ago I was thinking, 'I dont need damage cause I mostly drive on track'.

Now I see that it's not about how I am driving. Unforgiven and realistic damage-modelling changes peoples racing-attitude for more like driving real cars. It's bye bye for first corners mayhem, and over-optimistic passing tries.

Also curbs must be modelled differently in GT5, so people would not shortcut... in iRacing you loose car-control so easily when driving over curbs with wrong way, so in the end it's more vice to drive track how it's meant to drive, than trying win 'nothing' by jumping over curbs and loose everything in some point.

I think Beginner-level could be without damage-modelling, and Int.Med could have only cosmetic damage... but Expert-level must have fully realistic damages or GT-series is history in my eyes.

 

[TofuStoreDrift]

The only thing I have against damage is the AI. I'm the type of guy that prefers offline more then online. It is hard enough to deal with AI cars that are blind, if they start costing me credits I'd be quite upset. I know, there will probably be a damage "off" button, but its against my nature not to play a Gran Turismo game to the fullest. I know, it sounds like a personal problem but, it my personal problem. Plus all this talk about damage taking care of the punters is nonsense, once GT5 proper is here I'm sure you will be able to boot them off once they make theirselves known. Also the best way to make yourself better is practice. You don't need damage for practice.

 

[AutoAki]

Plus all this talk about damage taking care of the punters is nonsense, once GT5 proper is here I'm sure you will be able to boot them off once they make theirselves known. Also the best way to make yourself better is practice. You don't need damage for practice.

If you say it's nonsense, I'd like to hear where are you basing that fact/opinion... I have too much experience from GT5P, and enough from iRacing, so I'd like to know why my assumptions are failed?

I know that iRacer casuals are more dedicated to racing-etiquette, but I can easily see that qualifying and high-realistic damage modelling and physics really would help GT5's Expert-level races.

Best way to make yourself better is practising, but without realistic damage-modelling/physics you learn to be fast with wrong 'kamikaze' drivingstyle. I needed to learn totally new way of drive/think, when I moved to iRacing... not because physics, (on-track theyre actually quite similar... off-track totally not) but because it was frustrating to 'reset' my car after everytime when I was driving over my limits.

So I reset my mind to new 'realism-level', and BOOM... whole new sim-world opened to me. Driving many years only GT, has changed my drivingstyle to be always 'maximum attack'-way because there is no causes about shortcutting over curbs or hitting walls. Sooo wrong! I see it now.

Damage-modelling rewards consistent and patient drivers, and when everybody learns those skills, GT5-online can have littlebit hope in future.

 

[dzidza]

As far as i am concerned damage is very important, because it makes you race more safely, and there is narrow window for making errors, and go unpunished. The bigger, and realistic damage model is, the easier it will be to ban punters and to detect them, so us others can have clean races.

I would be very disappointed if PD doesn't include damage. Of course i will still buy and play GT5, but it wouldn't be the same.
they can make damage slider for how much damage is realistic, from 0% (without damage) to 100% full damage.

 

[Tenacious D]

$13 monthly membership for iRacing? Forget that.

I will have to say that after my brief return to PC sim racing, I'm not that impressed with it. While Live For Speed does have very good physics - you should have seen me getting a car to act like it was shot from a cannon! - honestly, they don't have that much over Prologue. I would like the physics tweaked a bit more, but I wouldn't cry if it wasn't. Prologue is really very good.

Assuming damage makes it to GT5, requiring damage for high level races is kind of an odd issue. I'm not sure it should necessarily work like that. And I can tell you right now, if damage is required for endurance races, I might never try them. Just two hours behind the wheel without having to worry about damage is enough of a trial for me.

 

[dzidza]

Assuming damage makes it to GT5, requiring damage for high level races is kind of an odd issue. I'm not sure it should necessarily work like that. And I can tell you right now, if damage is required for endurance races, I might never try them. Just two hours behind the wheel without having to worry about damage is enough of a trial for me.

I was driving MGR Balkan league (rfactor) and we where racing against other league, and we were racing on le mans 24h, with day and night cycle, damage to 100%. race length was 1h 45min. around 70 laps with prototype cars (forgot the name). Number of drivers around 30,35 on start, and 15 or so finished, including myself. I must say i had a few mistakes and when that happened i just went for pitstop for repairs, for what could have been repaid. after race i was so exhausted and happy that i finished. So for me it wouldn't be a problem for endurance races to have damage, but my concerns goes with AI, and their behavior. It's much easy to drive with normal people, rather then AI, cause we were all on TS, and if you are about to lap someone you only needed to tell them, beside that they had a blue flag. But the best part of it was preparing for the race, testing setups and discussing it with teammates. So damage is necessary for GT5, that would make it next gen, rather then having fancy graphics

 

[TofuStoreDrift]

If you say it's nonsense, I'd like to hear where are you basing that fact/opinion... I have too much experience from GT5P, and enough from iRacing, so I'd like to know why my assumptions are failed?

I know that iRacer casuals are more dedicated to racing-etiquette, but I can easily see that qualifying and high-realistic damage modelling and physics really would help GT5's Expert-level races.

Best way to make yourself better is practising, but without realistic damage-modelling/physics you learn to be fast with wrong 'kamikaze' drivingstyle. I needed to learn totally new way of drive/think, when I moved to iRacing... not because physics, (on-track theyre actually quite similar... off-track totally not) but because it was frustrating to 'reset' my car after everytime when I was driving over my limits.

So I reset my mind to new 'realism-level', and BOOM... whole new sim-world opened to me. Driving many years only GT, has changed my drivingstyle to be always 'maximum attack'-way because there is no causes about shortcutting over curbs or hitting walls. Sooo wrong! I see it now.

Damage-modelling rewards consistent and patient drivers, and when everybody learns those skills, GT5-online can have littlebit hope in future.

Just remember, with GT5's wow factor, plus that its on a console, it will attract people of all ages, not just simmers. In a perfect world, a average 9yr old boy would race with the respect of a 30yr boy but, this is not a perfect world. Not amount of damage will stop a child bent on destruction. Sure qualifing would, but this is a thread about damage.

 

[JDMKING13]

Yep... it's so great decision from iRacing, to keep everything very realistic. I'm not 'Hotlap-Alien', so this gives better chances to do decent Qualify-run, and have a good grid position.

Off-tracks, spins, and collisions destroys quickly your SR badly, but even you would run total-clear Qualify session, it increase only by few .hundreds... so it's like 'climbing to the tree'. Bit by bit higher, and one 'catastrophe-session' and you will fall down so much as you have messed up. Been there, done that.




Me too... half year ago I was thinking, 'I dont need damage cause I mostly drive on track'.

Now I see that it's not about how I am driving. Unforgiven and realistic damage-modelling changes peoples racing-attitude for more like driving real cars. It's bye bye for first corners mayhem, and over-optimistic passing tries.

Also curbs must be modelled differently in GT5, so people would not shortcut... in iRacing you loose car-control so easily when driving over curbs with wrong way, so in the end it's more vice to drive track how it's meant to drive, than trying win 'nothing' by jumping over curbs and loose everything in some point.

I think Beginner-level could be without damage-modelling, and Int.Med could have only cosmetic damage... but Expert-level must have fully realistic damages or GT-series is history in my eyes.

👍 Damage is a must, it will level out the racing dramaticly. Like you said it has to be on fully realistic in Experts events also. With the curbs i agree with you on that i was watchin someone replay on london reverse who placed high. They ran a clean lap until the last turn before the straight away. Instead of going around the curb he jumped the whoole curb. If we had a real damage system that curb would of messed up their car in so many ways resulting in not having the top lap. Anyway great post i agree with you 100%

 

[Tenacious D]

I was driving MGR Balkan league (rfactor) and we where racing against other league (snip)

Well, now this is a different situation entirely, but I understand that online races against friends or serious competitions almost require damage. Yes, almost, because I don't think damage is utterly necessary to have a good, fun, challenging race. But this is where freedom of choice comes into play, so that for setting up races with like minded people who want to race cleanly, damage gives them that "little bit more" they want from a simulation.

But what I was referring to were single player endurance races. Yes, some of us actually like SP gaming. I mostly race GT5P offline, because it's way more fun with a full field of 16 cars. And the bots drive very much like the people I've raced online with over the past several months. At least in America, the online racers are more hardcore, disciplined and clean. I'm afraid that, at least the first time through to clear an enduro, I'd rather race with damage off so a small mistake won't cost me a race.

 

[dzidza]

Well, now this is a different situation entirely, but I understand that online races against friends or serious competitions almost require damage. Yes, almost, because I don't think damage is utterly necessary to have a good, fun, challenging race. But this is where freedom of choice comes into play, so that for setting up races with like minded people who want to race cleanly, damage gives them that "little bit more" they want from a simulation.

But what I was referring to were single player endurance races. Yes, some of us actually like SP gaming. I mostly race GT5P offline, because it's way more fun with a full field of 16 cars. And the bots drive very much like the people I've raced online with over the past several months. At least in America, the online racers are more hardcore, disciplined and clean. I'm afraid that, at least the first time through to clear an enduro, I'd rather race with damage off so a small mistake won't cost me a race.

i totally understand what your saying, especially for the SP. I also enjoy SP very much, but thats where my concern is, damage and AI, especially in endurance races. As for online, there will be a big problem if we don't get private rooms, than damage will only be a problem. Once you have a dozen of friends that play cleanly, damage wont be a problem, even though contacts will happen, especially if PD doesn't reduce slip stream to normal, this goes for braking.

 

[m00ndancer]

I'm afraid that, at least the first time through to clear an enduro, I'd rather race with damage off so a small mistake won't cost me a race.

There you and I have a slightly different view. I want to have damage and want to limp back to the pits and repair. The goals for each endurance should be set to that you can progress even if you don't get the podium. You have to race at least 70% of the winning car to score and get to race in the next race.

 

[Tenacious D]

There you and I have a slightly different view.

Well, keep in mind why I put it like that. Enduros in GT2 and I think 3 were about 2-2.5 hrs. For most gamers, that's a small eternity to follow the same circles over and over. In GT4, they average more than 3.5hrs if my math is right, and then there's that insane 24 HOUR RACE! ZOMG... But, okay, that's fine, when I have the time I'll tackle them. Today I just want to have fun, not have a full contact sporting event.

And what I was saying is I just want to clear the race so I can do all the events in GT5 as quickly as possible. The races are long enough, and I don't want to beat my head against a four hour wall plus. After I clear them, then it's full damage or mostly full.

 

[Lotrzyna]

I couldn't care less about damage, just give us the game already !!

(too bad there is no poll in first post)