Where did PD go Wrong?

[Malcolm Tucker]

Was you trying it on GT Legends?

I think AC and R3E have better support for pad players but dont know how well it plays.

Yeh and GTR2 I think. Are you playing R3E? I need to take the plunge but I've read that there isn't much of a community. Same with Simraceway

 

[MaDHaX]

Yeah I have R3E and I think it has a whole lot of potential, the community is up in roar over there at the moment though because no multiplayer but I think that and AC will be very popular on steam.

I'll be playing both titles regularly once they have online sorted out, i'm impressed with them both. Assetto is looking more impressive though. pCARS is also another one to look out for since they were apart of the old Simbin team. Should be interesting to see what they come out with. rF2 is also another one but I think you need a good strong PC otherwise you'll be dissapointed as rF1 looks better sometimes.

 

[synon]

PD failed because they don't evolve, the game has been the slowest evolution in history and they take far too long to make a game.

There is no real vision in this game TBH, time for a new competitor to take control.

It's a free market so there's always an opportunity for a better competitor, although the poor experience SimBin had on consoles with Race Pro does suggest that perhaps project cars etc might struggle also.

 

[Johnnypenso]

In other words, you dont have the patience to find really good online loobies and really good/serious online players? Because they are there, definitely. If I have no problems finding them in Spain, In USA+Canada should be far better because the two combined have like 8-9 times more population than Spain.
Playing with good players online is always much better than playing against the AI. For me, GT1-GT4 were good and fun.... until online was a reality. Then offline mode just became a formailty to get money and cars.

I shouldn't have to have patience to find a good lobby, a good game design would do that for me.

Welcome to the Open Lobby system Johnny, what are you looking for?

450PP on Sports Hards or less please.

Thank you Johnny, here is a list of all the lobbies restricted to 450PP with Sports Hards or less, enjoy yourself.

The burden shouldn't be on the player it should be on the designer to provide the proper filtering options to quickly find a way to play the game they designed and sold to me.

But since you mentioned it, the idea of "busy servers" came up in another lobby, so as I sat here eating my lunch I did a little informal survey of North American lobbies. So where is all this racing with good players you speak of?

 

[lazywolfe]

.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

As if you actually know what I expected or why I did not like it.

I played the demo and I knew it would be different than FM. I wasn't sure I would like it but I did expect that there would be at least 1 or 2 actual tracks and definitely expected that I would be able to tune the cars.

What we got was very lame, no tracks, no tuning, shameless rubber banding, stupid AI driving all over the open map crashing into you and such.

The open world, drive around to find paint shop and such was neat when it was introduced in NFS UG2 for about a day or two and then got old real quick. I actually felt like I was driving a down graded version on NFS with Forza cars in it.

I am surprised that they added the Forza name to that piece of crap.

The whole point of the game is free roam driving, so I'm not sure why you expected tracks when there are already 4 other Forza games that let you do that. Same goes for tuning. It was made very clear before the game's release that it was a spinoff title that would play by a different set of rules from the other Forza games.

Just because it didn't have what you wanted, doesn't make it crap. And as far as I'm aware, you didn't even get far enough into the game to where it allowed you to paint your car, so how can you make a serious opinion about it anyway?

Anyway, this is off topic, so I'm going to stop responding.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

The whole point of the game is free roam driving, so I'm not sure why you expected tracks when there are already 4 other Forza games that let you do that. Same goes for tuning. It was made very clear before the game's release that it was a spinoff title that would play by a different set of rules from the other Forza games.

Just because it didn't have what you wanted, doesn't make it crap.
.

No tuning is a joke, and only one open world map is a joke. I expected tuning for sure and I expected at least a few closed circut tracks rather than just open world with idiot AI on the road all the time. It was/is crap and should never have had the Forza name. Lame even by NFS standards

 

[Rob-F1-Fan]

They went wrong in many ways.

1. Making a film about Kaz rather than getting on with the game
2. Spending years making the game for PS3 when they could have released GT6 on PS4.
3. Moon Buggy sh**
4. Empty Promises.
5. Holding alot of content back for DLC.

 

[mister dog]

They became too full of themselves somewhere before GT5 was released, innovation and creating features to keep players excited didn't matter anymore, as they could just re brand their old 90's formula and sell it all over again.

IMO it took most people to buy GT6, before they started to realize this as this one has "we couldn't care less" written even more all over it.

 

[Steve Mcqueen]

Why do you think Sony has a back up called driveclub because there starting too see the writing on the wall with kaz and pd they need a more reliable performer

 

[MustangManiac]

Why do you think Sony has a back up called driveclub because there starting too see the writing on the wall with kaz and pd they need a more reliable performer

Really, where exactly is this driveclub that you speak of?

 

[pyrates]

They became too full of themselves somewhere before GT5 was released, innovation and creating features to keep players excited didn't matter anymore, as they could just re brand their old 90's formula and sell it all over again.

IMO it took most people to buy GT6, before they started to realize this as this one has "we couldn't care less" written even more all over it.

I really start to get that feeling. What makes me sad is that GT6 marks the 15th anniversary(!). This really should be celebrated: More DLC and content than you normally would release, groundbreaking or at least somewhat innovative features, special events, an active website with all kinds of news and recaps from the past 15 years, etc. Something to make us proud of what GT achieved in the past 15 years and that would make us excited for the future of the franchise.

But what do we get? An unfinished game with less features than before, a couple of cars in a special livery (only when you pre-ordered or got the AE), a VGT project that is so quiet it seems almost dead, un-inspired seasonal events that seem like PD is just going through the motions and complete lack of any communication.

It doesn't feel like a celebration at all. It's stale and un-inspired. It feels like a product of a team that is tired after 15 years and just wants to get over with it and go home. A chore nothing more.

 

[GattigerPlay]

don't loose faith, in 2020 we will celebrate the 20nd anniversary with a copy of GT7

 

[DSkywalker01]

adding online multiplayer to a Gran Turismo title.

There I said it.

IMO it made them lazy. Of course it also jaded us... but whatever.

 

[JujiroMatsuda]

Well, read just about the whole thing. I concluded that PD's GT now is a sinking ship. The very latest version of GT5 is perhaps the pinnacle of their makings. The reason GT6 being not that much better (if not worse) than its predecessor is that they made GT5 rather too good - reached the limit of what PS3 as machine can deliver and they included as much as what there were to be included.

Livery paint and what not are the other companies' only option to distinguish their products, including engine sounds. PD didn't care for those because they were confident their game was simply the best and kept to the essentials and that was all we needed. Yes the engine sounds could've been better but probably Sony asked them to leave that department imperfect otherwise other game makers have no chance of ever selling their products. That's what I think. Other games had better sounds and looked tempting but weren't good enough to warrant my money.

Well almost - I regret I wasted money on NFS Shift 2 (though it was a second hand). It was great at first, I honestly thought that was the only game that could challenge the GT to be the greatest racing game in PS's history but that chronic input lag killed it for me. It had so much potential and I could not believe anyone in right mind would ignore such a basic error and still released the game and shut the door on your face. Don't they care about their reputation?

Anyway I now understand the direction Sony and PD are heading so I'll be very careful before buying GT7. I won't jump on it. If it's not good enough I'll give it a pass. If there is suddenly a great racing game appears on other consoles I'll jump the ship. I don't care what I'd be missing but if they treat us like morons I won't give them a cent.

It crossed my minds several times but perhaps Sony's game department is struggling with money. Many of their workers are now fed up? Maybe they aren't getting paid as well as we think they are. If I was Kaz, who made lots of money and now in a very complacent situation and if in anyway got mistreated I'd think like, "Well I don't give a 🤬 what will happen to my game and what they will do to it. I'm outa here."

I'll still play GT6 because it's still the "best value for money driving game $300 gear (console, game and a wheel) could offer".

P.S: Instead of torturing myself on TT events I thought I should have some fun by driving AC Cobra on Eiger. Loads of drifting and loads of fun for sure, but what struck me was when I looked back on replays I could clearly see I locked my front brakes up and as I eased off the brakes saw those front tyres with logos written on them started to roll a bit and locked and roll a bit, while laying down skidding marks with some smoke, just like you'd see in real life - made me think "Wooow... what an amazing simulator."

It would be such a shame a great game like this comes to its end with silly political mishaps at the top. I'm really hoping I'm all wrong on this.

 

[MaDHaX]

Well, read just about the whole thing. I concluded that PD's GT now is a sinking ship. The very latest version of GT5 is perhaps the pinnacle of their makings. The reason GT6 being not that much better (if not worse) than its predecessor is that they made GT5 rather too good - reached the limit of what PS3 as machine can deliver and they included as much as what there were to be included.

Livery paint and what not are the other companies' only option to distinguish their products, including engine sounds. PD didn't care for those because they were confident their game was simply the best and kept to the essentials and that was all we needed. Yes the engine sounds could've been better but probably Sony asked them to leave that department imperfect otherwise other game makers have no chance of ever selling their products. That's what I think. Other games had better sounds and looked tempting but weren't good enough to warrant my money.

Well almost - I regret I wasted money on NFS Shift 2 (though it was a second hand). It was great at first, I honestly thought that was the only game that could challenge the GT to be the greatest racing game in PS's history but that chronic input lag killed it for me. It had so much potential and I could not believe anyone in right mind would ignore such a basic error and still released the game and shut the door on your face. Don't they care about their reputation?

Anyway I now understand the direction Sony and PD are heading so I'll be very careful before buying GT7. I won't jump on it. If it's not good enough I'll give it a pass. If there is suddenly a great racing game appears on other consoles I'll jump the ship. I don't care what I'd be missing but if they treat us like morons I won't give them a cent.

It crossed my minds several times but perhaps Sony's game department is struggling with money. Many of their workers are now fed up? Maybe they aren't getting paid as well as we think they are. If I was Kaz, who made lots of money and now in a very complacent situation and if in anyway got mistreated I'd think like, "Well I don't give a 🤬 what will happen to my game and what they will do to it. I'm outa here."

I'll still play GT6 because it's still the "best value for money driving game $300 gear (console, game and a wheel) could offer".

P.S: Instead of torturing myself on TT events I thought I should have some fun by driving AC Cobra on Eiger. Loads of drifting and loads of fun for sure, but what struck me was when I looked back on replays I could clearly see I locked my front brakes up and as I eased off the brakes saw those front tyres with logos written on them started to roll a bit and locked and roll a bit, while laying down skidding marks with some smoke, just like you'd see in real life - made me think "Wooow... what an amazing simulator."

It would be such a shame a great game like this comes to its end with silly political mishaps at the top. I'm really hoping I'm all wrong on this.

GT has always been a great game but today with far more better technology, PD seem complacent using older techniques to make the game.

I think when they hear our complaints maybe they thinking ok, we need to push the PS3's graphics to the absolute limit so people can be shocked with what they are seeing on screen. True gamers in any game would tell you frame rate is far more important than visual graphics. The other thing they would probably tell you is how well the game is supported by the developers.

I dont understand what PD want to do anymore, maybe they want to move from the gaming market and into show business, weather thats movie making or the GTA career. The GT franchise is not getting the attention it deserves/needs by Kaz and PD and this is why there is so much backlash.

We the consumers was already let down by things that are unchanged such as sound, limited customization, no livery editor. But then add to that a game that has less features than what GT5 had, add some game breaking bugs and give it to the world. No wonder why we are all upset.

Something drastic needs to change in PD's office.

 

[Imari]

Yes the engine sounds could've been better but probably Sony asked them to leave that department imperfect otherwise other game makers have no chance of ever selling their products. That's what I think.

Not sure if serious...

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I would rather take a slight graphical hit than lose 60fps, I think 60fps is much more important personally, it makes a world of difference.

All games I have on my PC I run at 60fps and adjust the graphics to steady the frame rate, rather than make things a little prettier and 30fps.

Admittedly, so would I, but it looks unlikely PD would ever take that approach.

For me 720p instead of 1080p is by far the better choice rather than 30FPS instead of 60.

Me too, but instead PD saw fit to increase the max resolution in GT6 over GT5, despite the latter already suffering framerate issues. Every single race I start on Brands Hatch, especially at night, is a very obvious example of stuttering.

If some people love the livery editor so much, why dont they just play forza?

If some people love realism so much, why play games at all? See how ridiculous that reasoning becomes? There's nothing wrong with wanting new features in franchise - unless you're trying to tell me you see absolutely no reason to add anything at all to GT6.

To me its a non-serious thing that should not be in GT because GT is more serious than that.

Super cereal, guys.

So the solution for a GT is to copy all they can from the other games and stop becoming GT?

The solution is to offer more options. If that means using a feature that another game has, then I see no problems with it. A more dangerous approach for PD is to purposely ignore adding high-demand features simply because another company has already done it. They're not creating a unique story, or unique characters; this is a simulation-style game, reality should be their goal, and custom liveries appear at literally all levels of motorsport.

It'd be a damned sight more realistic than the moon missions...

Sorry but I am the polar opposite of your taste. When I go to a track I want to be able to recognize cars. WIth the libery editor, and the rubbish liveries that would make appear, it would be impossible.

Ignoring how a simple checkbox in the options could remove custom liveries for players who are just too offended by them - you want to recognize cars? A livery editor makes that really easy. And after playing FM4 online for over two years, I can tell you that my experience has been far more good liveries than bad.

Some people here simply talk about adding stuff to make the sales increase, like this, in general. See Exorcet's post. For him it seems all that matters is sales.

Well, as so many GT supporters like to point to the sales as some kind of measure of how good the game is, and GT6 hasn't sold nearly as well as its predecessors, perhaps that's the right approach

I understand people want more and more stuff in the game, but still, what I dont get is the attitude of some people who think "GT is very short and boring, theres nothing to do". The physics are completely different and better. THere are a lot of new cars and several new tracks. Theres a truckload of things to do if you REALLY like racing games. For a start, try to experiment with all the cars and the new physics, only this makes the game's life very large.

That's the thing; that's the only way to make the game longer. Well, that and Photomode, which is also worse than it was in GT6. You know what would massively increase playability? Leaderboards, both local (offline) and online. A marketplace/trading zone for people to share their cars and/or tunes. A livery editor massively extended the play-time of FM4 for me, as every car in my garage became a truly unique vehicle, right down to my Ontario license plates. I have an entire section of my garage dedicated to real life racing livery replicas, too.

GT6 added under 100 truly unique cars over GT5. The physics are different, but to anybody but the hardcore fan, it's not enough of a change to warrant "rediscovering" old cars - my personal favourite '70 Galant still handles very much the same.

 

[Exorcet]

Some people here simply talk about adding stuff to make the sales increase, like this, in general. See Exorcet's post. For him it seems all that matters is sales.

You're not reading. I don't care about sales, unless maybe someone else brings up how adding a feature will ruin and destroy the game. all that matters? That's easy, a good game.

 

[hans54green]

They went wrong with making detailed cockpit views for all the new cars (sorry if it's been stated already, but I might've missed it in six pages of bickering). I know a lot of players prefer the view for it's "realism" (which is debatable), but think of all the man-hours gone into making superfluous things like f-ing upholstery stitching!! It was way too ambitious for their small (or inefficient?) workforce IMO.

 

[NA]

Where did PD go wrong? I suspect it was that missed left turn at Albuquerque.

(Hope everyone feels a bit better now. )

 

[Beart8o]

They went wrong in many ways.

1. Making a film about Kaz rather than getting on with the game
2. Spending years making the game for PS3 when they could have released GT6 on PS4.
3. Moon Buggy sh**
4. Empty Promises.
5. Holding alot of content back for DLC.

I'm not really sure how any of your points could possibly be considered going wrong.

1. It wasn't great, maybe a bit pretentious seeming. But I'm sure it in no way affected their ability to "get on with the game"

2. This really depends on your situation. I'm personally glad it's on ps3, because I don't plan on getting a ps4 soon, and PD were banking on that being the case for most people.

3. Moon buggy ruled, an unnecessary distraction from the main course maybe, but an awesome one.

4. If anything this is were things are amiss, but if so, they went wrong a long time ago, along with the rest of the industry/humanity.

5. I'm pretty sure they released what they had finished when the game went gold, but if you have evidence to the contrary, please enlighten us.

 

[raven214]

3. Moon buggy ruled, an unnecessary distraction from the main course maybe, but an awesome one.

The moon missions are a perfect example of where PD went wrong. Modeling the stars and WW2 troop carriers are also great examples. While there is a lot that is right in Gran Turismo, there are a number of unfinished or outright missing car/driving/racing elements. That's what makes it so frustrating - such great potential left unrealized.

It's been widely established that PD is a relatively small group. They've shown they can produce high quality work but time always seems to be a huge limiting factor for them - more than it should be for a franchise this big and successful. When you have a history of missing deadlines and leaving things incomplete or unaddressed (e.g. AI, sound) then you shouldn't waste any attention or resources on frivolous/off-topic stuff like the moon, stars, or military vehicles.

I played the moon missions once, took a screenshot for posterity's sake, collected my money, and then went back to racing cars. Kaz has lost his focus and Gran Turismo is suffering because of it.

 

[Beart8o]

The moon missions are a perfect example of where PD went wrong. Modeling the stars and WW2 troop carriers are also great examples. While there is a lot that is right in Gran Turismo, there are a number of unfinished car/driving/racing elements missing. That's what makes it so frustrating - such great potential left unrealized.

It's been widely established that PD is a relatively small group. They've shown they can produce high quality work but time always seems to be a huge limiting factor for them - more than it should be for a franchise this big and successful. When you have a history of missing deadlines and leaving things incomplete or unaddressed (e.g. AI, sound) then you shouldn't waste any attention or resources on frivolous/off-topic stuff like the moon, stars, or military vehicles.

I played the moon missions once, took a screenshot for posterity's sake, collected my money, and then went back to racing cars. Kaz has lost his focus and Gran Turismo is suffering because of it.

But the strange stuff, like the moon mission, the weirder old cars that can barely make it up hills, and the car wash that does nothing are all the things that give GT it's personality. Look at how hard forza is trying to have personality by stealing top gear's personality. I would rather have a little less polish and a little more personality.

 

[Zuku]

Where did they go wrong not keeping up with the times. They got away with it from GT1-GT4 because back then all that realism stuff was basically a pipe dream heck didn't even know what it meant when GT1 released as I was only like 7, but again as I've said many times before GT got lucky when it released on PS1 and PS2.

There are a few things that happened with GT1-4 and those are it only released in a 2 year window after a console came out and it's sequel never went head to head with the next-gen console.

Those 2 things have not happened here GT5 released basically 4 years after PS3 launched and it's sequel GT6 is now released after PS4 launch.

Plus couple that with the fact Racing games are passing them by yeah as much as I know people here love to talk about the physics I think that argument only gets you so far. Cause even though GT6 has better physics there is no ACTUAL GAME so to the average person that likes Racing game == BORING!

I know many of folks here who don't like Forza, but sadly enough if I had a 360 and PS3 or even X1 I'd buy Forza in a heartbeat because what it looks like to me in gameplay videos, trailers, or demo's that I'm actually racing with some competitive A.I do I know it's the best Heck no, but as long as I don't get bored playing again them like I did with GT6 that's good enough for me.

 

[montez34]

I think a career mode that is more linear at the start and actually has a little bit of a story would be nice, start off in karts, win a championship and get sponsorship offers to move up to another class, and just keep moving up like a real race driver. Have track days and test days, add drag racing, the same old boring A spec mode just doesn't cut it anymore.

 

[karelpipa]

even the proper gear setting screen last seen in GT1.

This for 1443697397374x times! Also applies for proper power & torque graph (you know, when you can't see RPMs its useless) - last seen in GT2.

 

[Latin Avenger]

Marketing alliances that no one cares about, social media drama, poor communication with their fans (ones with serious criticism), multiple activities outside the game's development, sticking to traditions from one country that do nothing but hurt a game that is played all around the world, being oblivious of what the competition is doing, GT Academy, quantity over quality and aiming too high on certain aspects of the game before prioritizing what would really make the game better.

They left thier roots instead if sticking to thier focus meaning the "GAME" itself they are focusing on GT Academy episodes etc.

I could almost swear all the employees quit and went to go work for Asetto Corza or Forza, it's unbelievable what has been going on with Gran Turismo they have become a cash cow ever wonder why they hav'nt come out with season races yet? Because they paid out the most money, they rather pay nothing to frustrate a person to go buy credits or play the game for hours on, I have children I can't focus all my time on a game for hours on as much as I like too.

Now charging $ online for a garage & credits, whats next Charge for interior cars & rims? I can just see a GT6 come out soon on PS4 & PD charging everything all over again, from the Disc to garage & DLC again, I been with them since day one and have never seen anything like this in a game I play many titles.
"HOW THE MIGHTY HAS FALLEN"

 

[Frostav]

(Damn, I haven't been here in a while...just made a new account instead of looking up my old one)

If some people love the livery editor so much, why dont they just play forza?
To me its a non-serious thing that should not be in GT because GT is more serious than that.

I woudn't like GT to become a livery horrorfest with cars like these
View attachment 121048 View attachment 121049

My eyes!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itasha

Actually...yeah, I do want such crazy Liveries on GT. Because why not? Some of us have different taste than you ya know. How dare people have fun! How dare people treat cars as canvases for art! How dare people not view cars as only good when utterly pristine!

And by the way, official Itasha exist:

And besides that...there's plenty of real examples:

(Yes, that's an Ita-Ferrari)


Stuff like the ability to create Itasha is why I eventually made the switch over to Forza. You know, besides the better physics, the rock-solid framerate, the idea that the devs actually listened to their fans....

I used to have a bunch of Itasha on FM4, you're lucky my account's pics have all disappeared due to age or I'd flood this post with them. I loved racing online with them, making people like you mad is hilarious.

By the way, as a Japanese game...GT would have WAY more Itasha than FM4 ever would.

 

[karelpipa]

As unplayable as GT6 dropping into the 20's for FPS? Whether or not GT6's physics are "complex" is entirely up for debate too, but I know of at least one other game on the same generation of consoles that does 60fps just fine. The physics calculations aren't the likely reason for GT6's terribad framerate anyways - it's Kaz and co pushing the graphical aspects too far for the PS3's capabilities. Just like every other game that's been released for any home console, there needs to be compromises in the game design - 60fps certainly is not an impossibility. So again, I'll restate that yes, I'd prefer a locked 30fps rate than GT6's stuttering only-sometimes-60fps.

I think that on PS2 the games felt much more smooth (GT3 or GT4 or Enthusia). Those were 60fps to me. Neither GT5 or GT6 has the same smooth effect to me. Why is that?

The GDDR5 power of the PS4 will not prevent PD from making bad design decision. And in my personal opinion... It won't make the sounds more realistic, because PD showed the world several times that they are incapable in the sound department.

In many videos (either for GT5P or GT5 or GT6) - i mean trailers or intros. Some cars sounds were just astonishing. Why is this missing from the ingame?