Where did PD go Wrong?

[Johnnypenso]

Sorry but I am the polar opposite of your taste. When I go to a track I want to be able to recognize cars. WIth the libery editor, and the rubbish liveries that would make appear, it would be impossible.

How about they just copy other games and you press a button and you can't see the liveries on the track if you don't want to. Problem solved.

Yes, the game bugs and mistakes I agree... I dont know if it's Kaz fault, sony's fault or PD's fault but it's pathetic. The car/laptimes being worse after the 1st pitstop is something completely un-explainable and mysterious. How the heck can a glitch like this be happening? This only happens on purpose... and why????
I dont know if Kaz gets angry at their employees when those horrendous bugs appear... if he doesnt, he should.

We don't know or care who's fault it is. But I do know, that it being in the game for 3 months with no acknowledgment by PD, nor any patch issued to fix it is PD/Kaz's responsibility. It's on their shoulders now, but I suspect they've bitten off more than they can chew with GT6 and just can't keep up or get done all that needs to be done.

 

[NixxxoN]

You, sir, sure is simple-minded. The broader the audience GT can appeal to, the better. You can simply ignore what you don't like and let those who enjoy it have their fun.

Ok so let's put in there objects to throw at other cars/players so they will please the mario kart fans.

How about they just copy other games and you press a button and you can't see the liveries on the track if you don't want to. Problem solved.

That might be a possibility.

 

[MasamuneDate]

Ok so let's put in there objects to throw at other cars/players so they will please the mario kart fans.

Is that the only way you can respond other people? You're giving spanish people a bad name.
I'm talking about stuff that have been brought up in this thread, such as a livery editor. In me, GT has lost a consumer.
Let's see if you're going to keep defending GT's "traditions", once features praised by you, such as the Course Creator, don't keep up to their expectations.

 

[Malcolm Tucker]

PC sim's is built for the hardcore sim fan's but astonishingly most of these sim's can be played with a pad.

An outstanding game that GT legends is, I bought it so that I can have the Historic GT mod for rFactor. I'm well comfortable with the PC sim's, it feels like home to a motor enthusiast like me

Although have you tried a PC sim with a pad, it's impossible!

I'd take a PC sim with PS2 graphics over GT6 any day, basic and smooth is better than detailed with bad FPS and bits flashing all over the place. My only gripe is that I love driving road cars with road tyres, and PC sims don't really facilitate this. And career modes, probably why I still play GT Legends so much.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Ok so let's put in there objects to throw at other cars/players so they will please the mario kart fans.

When you make ridiculous strawman arguments with silly premises, you just devalue everything else you say right along with it. Nobody is arguing for Mariokart features, although one might argue that driving on the moon and knocking down giant orange cones isn't far off Mario Kart is it? The inclusion of popular elements from real racing or other games won't change the character of GT at all. Do you think adding proper AI whose performance can be scaled between what it is now, and something competitive would change GT? How about real flags when racing, a real qualifying procedure where your lap times are listed in real time, not just right before the event starts? A livery editor where you can toggle it's display on and off while you are racing? Standing starts and qualifying in offline career mode? Matchmaking or an online ranking/licensing system?

None of those things would change the basic character of GT one bit, but would sure improve the overall playability of the game, drawing in more and more fans and regaining many that have jumped ship.

 

[Exorcet]

Ok so let's put in there objects to throw at other cars/players so they will please the mario kart fans.

If PD had the resources to do this, and it drove up sales, and increased the popularity of the game resulting in more players, and you could totally ignore it, where would the downside be?

This mindset needs to be dropped, I think it contributes to the problem. "If a livery editor is in GT, it's not serious and the game is arcade" or something similar. That's a ridiculous statement, especially when the game can be made such that you would never know it had an editor if you chose to play that way. Yet the idea that people will complain about things that don't affect them serves as a pressure for devs to exclude things from a game.

The GPS track editor IS planned and to me is 10000 times better and more useful for the game than a livery editor.

You missed the point. PD could add both. Both is 10000 time better than having only one.

 

[MaDHaX]

Although have you tried a PC sim with a pad, it's impossible!

LOL, now why would I torture myself in doing that?

I'm sure there are settings for extra damping and steering aids for pad players in there somewhere, I might just try and play on pad and see for myself what its like.

I'd take a PC sim with PS2 graphics over GT6 any day, basic and smooth is better than detailed with bad FPS and bits flashing all over the place. My only gripe is that I love driving road cars with road tyres, and PC sims don't really facilitate this. And career modes, probably why I still play GT Legends so much.

I totally agree, it's no fun trying to drive at 20fps.

 

[Malcolm Tucker]

LOL, now why would I torture myself in doing that?

I'm sure there are settings for extra damping and steering aids for pad players in there somewhere, I might just try and play on pad and see for myself what its like.

Yep there's a lot of sensitivity adjustments etc but I couldn't get it right at all, not just hard but totally undriveable. I didn't have a wheel for a while so I was trying other options, it's actually easier to use the keyboard than the pad!

 

[NixxxoN]

Is that the only way you can respond other people? You're giving spanish people a bad name.

Said the guy who accused me of having a "simple mind" talk about being unpolite Do I have to say that you give brazilian people a bad name aswell?

When you make ridiculous strawman arguments with silly premises, you just devalue everything else you say right along with it. Nobody is arguing for Mariokart features

Its not strawman argument... we are talking about implementing features to please as many people as possible. This is an example that shows that you can't really please as many people as you want.
About the rest of your post, I never said anything about it. I'm only talking about the livery editor and copying other games. GT essence and uniqueness should remain and not try to become another game.

 

[Exorcet]

This is an example that shows that you can't really please as many people as you want.

I don't think that was shown.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

If some people love the livery editor so much, why dont they just play forza?
To me its a non-serious thing that should not be in GT because GT is more serious than that.

Because, once again, Forza isn't the only racing game with a livery editor. GT can have a livery editor and still maintain its classy and "professional" charm. I don't understand how leaving out good features for the sake of being different is a good thing.

I woudn't like GT to become a livery horrorfest with cars like these
View attachment 121048 View attachment 121049

My eyes!

Never mind. Those are the only liverys we would ever see. Oh wait.

And let's not get into how you can already make some pretty ugly and mismatched cars in GT, even with it's limited paint system. Chrome paint, anyone?

 

[MaDHaX]

Yep there's a lot of sensitivity adjustments etc but I couldn't get it right at all, not just hard but totally undriveable. I didn't have a wheel for a while so I was trying other options, it's actually easier to use the keyboard than the pad!

Was you trying it on GT Legends?

I think AC and R3E have better support for pad players but dont know how well it plays.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Its not strawman argument... we are talking about implementing features to please as many people as possible. This is an example that shows that you can't really please as many people as you want.

It is a strawman argument.

A straw man, also known in the UK as an Aunt Sally,[1][2] is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of the original topic of argument.

We are talking about expanding features of a driving/racing simulator, not the generic inclusion of any feature ever included in any game involving racing. Next thing you know, you'll be asking us to prove why we shouldn't include Bugs Bunny and the Roadrunner in the game. If you can't see the difference you should withdraw from the discussion.

 

[MasamuneDate]

Said the guy who accused me of having a "simple mind" talk about being unpolite Do you give brazilian people a bad name aswell?

Its not strawman argument... we are talking about implementing features to please as many people as possible. This is an example that shows that you can't really please as many people as you want.

haha... you know Polyphony Digital isn't paying you for playing their game, nor paying you for defending them, right?
All you can do is answer everyone sarcasticaly about their points. Can't you just admit that GT series is at a stalemate and needs something else? If so, there's no point in arguing with you anymore.

 

[MaDHaX]

What beauty is this? Motoring heaven, just look at those normal road cars being converted to a full race pedigree

 

[sparkytooth]

I don't know if GT will be ruined by PD, or the "Community".

 

[NixxxoN]

It is a strawman argument.

Some people here simply talk about adding stuff to make the sales increase, like this, in general. See Exorcet's post. For him it seems all that matters is sales.

haha... you know Polyphony Digital isn't paying you for playing their game, nor paying you for defending them, right?
All you can do is answer everyone sarcasticaly about their points. Can't you just admit that GT series is at a stalemate and needs something else? If so, there's no point in arguing with you anymore.

I understand people want more and more stuff in the game, but still, what I dont get is the attitude of some people who think "GT is very short and boring, theres nothing to do". The physics are completely different and better. THere are a lot of new cars and several new tracks. Theres a truckload of things to do if you REALLY like racing games. For a start, try to experiment with all the cars and the new physics, only this makes the game's life very large.

 

[Johnnypenso]

understand people want more and more stuff in the game, but still, what I dont get is the attitude of some people who think "GT is very short and boring, theres nothing to do". The physics are completely different and better. THere are a lot of new cars and several new tracks. Theres a truckload of things to do if you REALLY like racing games. For a start, try to experiment with all the cars and the new physics, only this makes the game's life very large.

If you (the generic you, not you specifically) have played GT1-5, GT6 is very short and boring. The offline career is a tragic joke for an experienced player, there's no other way to put it. Experimenting with new cars and physics is something to do, but it's not racing, it's hotlapping. Where's the racing? Online is also terrible. No sort options when searching so it takes forever to find what you are looking for. Everyone is on RS tires or cruising or drag racing. All you can really do with any consistency is join a league and then the racing is infrequent and you have to likely put up with random disconnects and lag, pit glitches etc. Or you can hotlap, which a lot of people find boring after a very short time.

The racing is missing from the game. To deny this is to be blind.

 

[NixxxoN]

If you (the generic you, not you specifically) have played GT1-5, GT6 is very short and boring. The offline career is a tragic joke for an experienced player, there's no other way to put it. Experimenting with new cars and physics is something to do, but it's not racing, it's hotlapping. Where's the racing? Online is also terrible. No sort options when searching so it takes forever to find what you are looking for. Everyone is on RS tires or cruising or drag racing. All you can really do with any consistency is join a league and then the racing is infrequent and you have to likely put up with random disconnects and lag, pit glitches etc. Or you can hotlap, which a lot of people find boring after a very short time.

The racing is missing from the game. To deny this is to be blind.

In other words, you dont have the patience to find really good online loobies and really good/serious online players? Because they are there, definitely. If I have no problems finding them in Spain, In USA+Canada should be far better because the two combined have like 8-9 times more population than Spain.
Playing with good players online is always much better than playing against the AI. For me, GT1-GT4 were good and fun.... until online was a reality. Then offline mode just became a formailty to get money and cars.

 

[sparkytooth]

In other news, taking anything powerful to Goodwood is always fun.

 

[MaDHaX]

Some people here simply talk about adding stuff to make the sales increase, like this, in general. See Exorcet's post. For him it seems all that matters is sales.

I understand people want more and more stuff in the game, but still, what I dont get is the attitude of some people who think "GT is very short and boring, theres nothing to do". The physics are completely different and better. THere are a lot of new cars and several new tracks. Theres a truckload of things to do if you REALLY like racing games. For a start, try to experiment with all the cars and the new physics, only this makes the game's life very large.

I cant experience GT6's new physics because I cant take it seriously at the state it is in. I dont want to be testing and finding bugs for a company that has put 15 years developement time into this project when I want to take my racing seriously. I wanted to take part in league racing on which ever sim i'm going to be playing, seeing as GT6 has a serious flaw which will effect that side of my experience I wish to stay away until it is solved.

But the lack of communication from PD when we have been crying out about this on these forums since it was found and still no acknowledgment from the PD team, it is very frustrating.

I don't know if GT will be ruined by PD, or the "Community".

Pretty sure it's PD driving us away and we are just trying to voice our opinions before we dissappear forever.

 

[raven214]

Its not strawman argument... we are talking about implementing features to please as many people as possible. This is an example that shows that you can't really please as many people as you want.
About the rest of your post, I never said anything about it. I'm only talking about the livery editor and copying other games. GT essence and uniqueness should remain and not try to become another game.

I really don't understand your point of view. People want more real-world racing features in GT - a game that purports to be a racing sim. Some of these features are present in other games. We aren't asking GT to become these games. We are asking for it to make a better race experience and giving examples of things that have been done right by other games.

Do race cars not have custom paint jobs? To be fair, a livery editor is not high on my personal list but it is a part of racing. The main concern I have with a truly custom editor is phallic and other obscene imagery appearing all over cars. I suspect this is a fear of Kaz's as well. A limited editor with presets, patterns, and numbers would be fine in my mind.

The Mario Kart argument is off-base, slippery-slope nonsense. We are talking about features of real-world automotive racing: qualifying, practice, grid starts, pit stops, cars that sound like cars, and maybe even the ability to make your own livery to make the car more your own and express yourself. We are talking about appealing to more car/race enthusiasts, not adding weaponry or any other fantasy example you can come up with.

 

[MasamuneDate]

I understand people want more and more stuff in the game, but still, what I dont get is the attitude of some people who think "GT is very short and boring, theres nothing to do". The physics are completely different and better. THere are a lot of new cars and several new tracks. Theres a truckload of things to do if you REALLY like racing games. For a start, try to experiment with all the cars and the new physics, only this makes the game's life very large.

So, basicaly, Gran Turismo is just a huge collection of cars and tracks. What's beyond that? Don't even say anything about racing, since most people here agree that the A.I. is a complete joke, besides the fact that you can't have qualifying and standing starts. What's more, PC sims have definitely better physics simulation than GT.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

You only dislike Horizon because you expected it to be like the Motorsport series, something it was never advertised as. That's your fault, not the game's.

As if you actually know what I expected or why I did not like it.

I played the demo and I knew it would be different than FM. I wasn't sure I would like it but I did expect that there would be at least 1 or 2 actual tracks and definitely expected that I would be able to tune the cars.

What we got was very lame, no tracks, no tuning, shameless rubber banding, stupid AI driving all over the open map crashing into you and such.

The open world, drive around to find paint shop and such was neat when it was introduced in NFS UG2 for about a day or two and then got old real quick. I actually felt like I was driving a down graded version on NFS with Forza cars in it.

I am surprised that they added the Forza name to that piece of crap.

 

[NixxxoN]

I cant experience GT6's new physics because I cant take it seriously at the state it is in. I dont want to be testing and finding bugs for a company that has put 15 years developement time into this project when I want to take my racing seriously. I wanted to take part in league racing on which ever sim i'm going to be playing, seeing as GT6 has a serious flaw which will effect that side of my experience I wish to stay away until it is solved.

There are bugs, surely, but you can still drive/test any car on any track. Having bugs doesnt mean being unplayable...

So, basicaly, Gran Turismo is just a huge collection of cars and tracks. What's beyond that? Don't even say anything about racing, since most people here agree that the A.I. is a complete joke, besides the fact that you can't have qualifying and standing starts. What's more, PC sims have definitely better physics simulation than GT.

I dont know what more to say to you... if you think a huge collection of cars and tracks is not good for you then maybe you should move on and find something else that you like more.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

So, basicaly, Gran Turismo is just a huge collection of cars and tracks. What's beyond that? Don't even say anything about racing, since most people here agree that the A.I. is a complete joke, besides the fact that you can't have qualifying and standing starts. What's more, PC sims have definitely better physics simulation than GT.

I think it is funny how many people I see complaining about no qualifying and standing starts and at the same time complain about slow AI. That really makes no sense at all. So assuming that you are fast enough to beat the AI when they have a rolling start would you actually think it is more challenging to have a standing start? Would you really waste your time qualifying for a race that you could win from the back of the pack?

There is no reason at all given the AI that there should be standing starts nor qualifying in GT mode, both would be pointless. The rolling start, come from behind aspect combined with short races is the only thing that makes most of the races even a little challenging. I can't even imagine how much easier it would be if they were standing start with me on the pole position.

As for racing, the real racing comes online with human opponents, offline is just practice, testing and a way to earn credits

 

[MaDHaX]

There are bugs, surely, but you can still drive/test any car on any track. Having bugs doesnt mean being unplayable...

Nope I can't and yes certain bugs does actually make the game unplayable. How can any league organiser or contenders take the race seriously when there is a mechanical flaw in the games engine? But my argument does'nt end there. Why is PD so quite about this? whats going on in that office?

I'm actually still giving PD a chance here as I grew up on GT, if this was any other game I wouldnt even bother posting up in a forum, I would just exchange for something else.

 

[MasamuneDate]

I dont know what more to say to you... if you think a huge collection of cars and tracks is not good for you then maybe you should move on and find something else that you like more.

I did.

As for racing, the real racing comes online with human opponents, offline is just practice, testing and a way to earn credits

I feel bad for those who don't have an internet connection and still bought the game, then.
PS: sorry about double-posting, I hit the wrong button.

 

[Exorcet]

I think it is funny how many people I see complaining about no qualifying and standing starts and at the same time complain about slow AI. That really makes no sense at all. So assuming that you are fast enough to beat the AI when they have a rolling start would you actually think it is more challenging to have a standing start? Would you really waste your time qualifying for a race that you could win from the back of the pack?

Not everyone is good enough to beat the AI, also those people asking for qualification aren't necessarily the people asking for faster AI and vice versa.

Qualification and slow AI are two different problems. Fixing one and not the other is progress (if the other gets fixed later). Also, there is always detuning your car or just picking a slow one. In addition, if slow AI is done to make winning easier (and GT6 seems to support this), qualification shatters the need for self defeating AI.

There is no reason at all given the AI that there should be standing starts nor qualifying in GT mode, both would be pointless.

How? They'll add features people will want.

The rolling start, come from behind aspect combined with short races is the only thing that makes most of the races even a little challenging. I can't even imagine how much easier it would be if they were standing start with me on the pole position.

It wouldn't have to be any easier. It might even be harder.

As for racing, the real racing comes online with human opponents, offline is just practice, testing and a way to earn credits

Unless you don't like online and buy the game for offline.

 

[eclipsee]

If some people love the livery editor so much, why dont they just play forza?
To me its a non-serious thing that should not be in GT because GT is more serious than that.

Even in iRacing (a serious thing) you can create your own liveries, the susum and cuspid of the sim racing games considered this way by a lot of people.

A livery editor has nothing to do with an arcade game or a serious racing simulator.