Which is Faster Supra or skyline..??

[Master_Yoda]

OK so i have been raceing these last, ok i can't give any time right now, or exact models, but each of them were fast. Skyline has a better entereing, and exiting speed. And it took the corners much smoother. Supra wasn't slow, but neither was the Skyline. But over all performence the Skyline was able to snatch that.

I'll give times, and Models this weekend.

 

[G-T-4-Fan]

This inspirated me to try a skyline again

It's pretty interesting to read these topics.
But still I wonder why the skyline offers more grip with four wheel drive...I mean EVERYONE says it but I want to know why for once

Most AWD cars only understeer anyway...

 

[Dave A]

Now, here is a simplified answer how 4WD utilizes traction better than 2 WD (and forgive my start at "Adam & Eve"):

Each of the 4 tires on a vehicle has traction (the friction between rubber and ground). Lets assume for arguments sake that each tire on dry surface has a traction value of 100 - a total of 400. **

In a 2WD only the traction of 2 tires (traction value 200) is used to create forward movement. Torque of the engine is using the resistance (traction) of two tires to get you moving. Lets say a torque value of 140 is needed to move the car. The traction value 200 is "used up" by 140 torque units. A safety margin of 60 remains.

Lets say due to slippery ground the traction value drops to 50 per tire. That gives you 100 usable units on the two powered tires - but with 140 torque units your "traction account "is overdrawn by 40. Result is spinning tires and you can't get the car moving.

In a 4WD system the engine's power is not sent to two tires (each carries 50% of the load) - power is sent to all 4 tires (each tire carries 25% of the load) utilizing the traction of the other 2 tires.

Going back to the previous examples, on dry surface with 400 traction and 140 torque withdrawal a safety margin of 260 remains (wow) and on slippery ground with 200 traction and 140 torque withdrawal a safety margin of 60 remains.Unlike the 2WD, tires are not spinning, forward movement is guaranteed. As you see, in 4WD the traction account is twice as high as in 2WD.

This long story only explains how 4WD uses traction better and helps to get a vehicle going when the ground is slippery. This is the situation when a 2WD can't take off on snow but a 4WD can. This does not constitute safety - it is only convenience. A 4WD can go where a 2WD can't.

** all traction and torque numbers were randomly selected for easier understanding of the subject.

http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/need.html

 

[Perfect Balance]

The skyline in stock form is faster than the supra in stock form, it handles better, and grips better.

 

[G-T-4-Fan]

http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/need.html

That explains alot of it

But why wouldn't it be better for drag racers to use 4WD then? I mean I know that wheelies are faster than just staying on the ground but what about staying on the ground WITH 4WD?

 

[joseph dobson]

the best skyline in the game i would say is either the v-spec II Nor or the gran turismo one (pace car or not) because it can produce 900+bhp so that must be good for something!

In the real world however i would have a supra before a skyline beacsue they are cheaper and if you can get used to a supra then you can move on to more better and bigger cars like the skyline.

In GT4 i'd prefer the skyline because i just love them! I love to do power slides by turning the traction control compltely off (0,0,5 the wheels still spin!!) but there is still quite strong snapback though, the supre though, never really tried but i did once and it was great fun, the only problme is the wheel spinning, any tips to combat this?

 

[Dave A]

That explains alot of it

But why wouldn't it be better for drag racers to use 4WD then? I mean I know that wheelies are faster than just staying on the ground but what about staying on the ground WITH 4WD?

Upto a caertain point 4wd can be quicker in drag races, but as the speeds of the cars increase the benefit of 4wd decreases. A lot of it's down to the tyre's, the faster the sdragster classes, generally the more grippy and wide the tyre's are. So 400bhp dragsters with road legal tyre's will probably benefit from 4wd, but 1000bhp dragsters with proper dragster tyre's probably won't. I don't know the technicalities of drag racing, it may simply be the rules that prevent certain classes of car from using 4wd, like NGT, GT2, GTS and GT1 cars arn't allowed to use 4wd. To get a proper answer you'd better wait for someone who knows more about drag racing rules and the reasons for thoes rules.

 

[un_peacekeeper]

And have to remember, that the Skyline is a rear wheel drive car until it needs to have some power directed to the front wheels. Therefore, it gets the full FR launch but if the tires can't handle it, the front tires will intervene and help. And it's a 40/60 split even then. All this makes a unsurprisingly good launch.

 

[GT40 MKII]

imho in the looks dept. i like the '97 supra rz but in the performance areas i like the skyline

 

[Leonidae]

The skyline in stock form is faster than the supra in stock form, it handles better, and grips better.

did you even read the whole thread before blurting out that fanboy-comment?

 

[Jay]

For the MK4 Supra, it has a much lighter weight that the Skyline.

We are in a GT4 Forum so according to GT4

1997 Toyota Supra RZ = 1510kg

2002 Nissan Skyline GTR V-spec II Nur = 1560kg

I wouldnt call that 'much' lighter.

 

[Dark Elite]

We are in a GT4 Forum so according to GT4

1997 Toyota Supra RZ = 1510kg

2002 Nissan Skyline GTR V-spec II Nur = 1560kg

I wouldnt call that 'much' lighter.

But you are comparing a 1997 Supra to a 2002 GT-R. The GT-R33 V-Spec of 1997 weighs in at 1540kg, so it is actually as close to the same mass as makes no difference.

In answer to the question of this thread, the Skyline is better in all it's forms. The tunability of the engines is better, the handling is far superior, allowing perfectly neutral handling or an awesome drift setup. And, in my opinion, any GT-R looks better than a Supra
The only point I concede (and, running the 300mph Club I have to concede it), is that the Supra wins on top speed. By about 30mph at the top end. But, you rarely reach 304.43mph in circuit racing.

And the ATTESA-ETS System just makes it certain which side to go for. All GT-Rs are fitted with this 4WD system, meaning the acceleration out of corners is second to none, and not many cars will pull away from a GT-R at a standing start.

As a matter of fact, a GT-R33 was pitted against a McLaren F1 in a drag race, by Jeremy Clarkson. I happen to have a copy of that video, and if you watch closely the Skyline pulls away first. Considerably.
If you want, I can re-upload that video.

OK, so I might be biased, but if anyone can argue with the above points, go ahead

DE

 

[Jay]

But you are comparing a 1997 Supra to a 2002 GT-R. The GT-R33 V-Spec of 1997 weighs in at 1540kg, so it is actually as close to the same mass as makes no difference.

I was comparing two cars that I had GT4 stats close at hand, I knew someone would meantion that, and considering everyone refers to R34 most the time I though I would just go with that.

As a matter of fact, a GT-R33 was pitted against a McLaren F1 in a drag race, by Jeremy Clarkson. I happen to have a copy of that video, and if you watch closely the Skyline pulls away first. Considerably.
If you want, I can re-upload that video.

No need to upload it is on google video, and yes your correct the R33 GTR doe's pull away at first.

 

[smuttneyspears]

In total agreement with Dark Elite.

The Skyline in any GT-R form, from the late 80's would wipe out alot of the competition. Especially the Supra!!. Take a Skyline and a Supra from the SAME year and go for a test drive Then see what the difference is



Off-topic,
If I had to choose. I would by a Supra first. Then move up to the Skyline.

I really do love both cars but in the end the Skyline can obliterate all.

 

[Dave A]

It's not a fanboy comment, it's a statement about them stock, and it's true. Though you have to assume your comparing two comparable models like a 97 RZ and a R34 GT-R.

 

[G-T-4-Fan]

For anyone interested, it definatly shows the Skyline pulls off faster, but imagine that system with a tuned Skyline and a newer model and I think the skyline wouldn't look so slow compared to the McLaren.

But the McLaren is sooo fast that it will still probably win

 

[Dave A]

I'm guessing here, but are you talking about that vidoe where Jeremy Clarkson drag races an R34 GTR with a McLaren F1? I've seen that a good few times and the Skyline does launch a bit quicker but the F1 smashes it, which is the whole point JC was trying to show, the R34 was a very, very fast car, the F1 was something else.

 

[G-T-4-Fan]

But that wasn't the point why we mentioned it And yes thats the video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5553922542374279745&q=McLaren+VS+Skyline

 

[viperpilot]

i have to say that i also would take the Skyline because if you take the M-spec Nür on the Nürb-Ring, it's a dream stock, no problems, except the speed, but handling is nearly perfect. the supra is also nice, faster, but has not the stability of which the ATTESA-ETS can give you in turns and curves.

viper

 

[Dark Elite]

an R34 GTR with a McLaren F1?

It's a GT-R33, in fact. And it is stock, meaning it is worth apporximately £25,000 new. The McLaren F1 is worth £630,000 new. What do you expect?

An RB26DETT engine can be tuned to beat the McLaren F1 for a fraction of the McLaren's price. There are R32s out there with 1200bhp from the same block as standard.

Thanks for linking that, G-T-4-Fan.

DE

 

[Dave A]

Your right, it was an R33 GT-R, theres no point asking what did you exect because the whole point of that exercise was to show just how much faster the F1 is from very fast (And GT4-FAN, I know why you mentioned it, I was referring to the point being made in the clip, that's all). Also, you may be able to get a GT-R to aceeelrate as fast in a straight line, but only upto a certain speed, it wouldn't take too long before the GT-R topped out and the F1 carried on accelerating, but in a 1/4 mile or so top speed isn't an issue so you will see GT-R's doing similar if not faster times in 1/4 drags. The basics of it are, the GT-R isn't shaped effectively enough to go much over 200mph, the drag that body creates at thoes speeds mean you need alot more power to hit 200mph that the F1 needs and I don't think your ever going to see a Skyline GT-R with enough power to come close to the 230mph mark let alone 240. As far as tuning your R33 GT-R goes, car tuning is great, if I had plenty of cash to burn I'd be performance modding all sorts of cars as a hobby, but given the chance of a modded fast car made to go faster or a standard exotic that's already faster, I'd choose the exotic every day.

 

[Dark Elite]

Also, you may be able to get a GT-R to aceeelrate as fast in a straight line, but only upto a certain speed, it wouldn't take too long before the GT-R topped out and the F1 carried on accelerating, but in a 1/4 mile or so top speed isn't an issue so you will see GT-R's doing similar if not faster times in 1/4 drags. The basics of it are, the GT-R isn't shaped effectively enough to go much over 200mph, the drag that body creates at thoes speeds mean you need alot more power to hit 200mph that the F1 needs and I don't think your ever going to see a Skyline GT-R with enough power to come close to the 230mph mark let alone 240.

OK... I'm gonna have to colour code this

You could always fit wider gears...

Gotta love the ATTESA-ETS doing the work for you

OK, so it's not the most aerodynamic shape around, I'll admit (If you meant to say 'efficiently' ). But it makes up for it in sheer power and grip.

Well, that bit can be disregarded. There's plenty of Skylines out there that can destroy 200mph utterly, and Top Secret's GT-R32 is capable of speeds in excess of 250mph. And it can get to 200 in thirteen seconds, which I think beats the McLaren considerably.



As for your last comment, I'd rather have a 700bhp Skyline that can beat a McLaren for a fraction of the price with another row of seats anyday!

You have to admit, it's sleeper car heaven... Japanese saloon annihilates 'exotic' hypercar...

DE

 

[Dave A]

TopSecret's skyline cannot hit 250mph, it never has come close to that, they've never tested it close to that, it's never been driven close to that. Do you have any idea of how much horsepower you'd need mathematically to reach thoes speeds in a car with that drag. It might begeared to reach 250mph I don't know the specifics of every tuner GT-R out there, but not skyline has hit 250mph, ever and claiming the gearing can take it there doesn't convince me, the fact is no Skyline has ever gone that fast, I'd love to be wrong and throw all the science and maths out of the window but not even 1600bhp was enough not to mention finding tyre's that are both road legal and capable of surviving for more than 10 seconds at 250mph is no easy task, that's why VAG spent milions on tyre's that could. The Skyline is a truely great car, but there are still area's it can't match others. With regarsd to what you'd prefer, apples and oranges different people will give a diferent answer and that's fair enough. And I would say the Skyline is a killer sleeper, if I thought it was a sleeper at all, a stock Skyline can smash most Impreza's and Evo's so it's lready ahead in it's game.

 

[Dark Elite]

Well, that's a hell of a post to reply to, so I'll ask how much you know about Top Secret's R32?

And this sounds a little contradictory...

I don't know the specifics of every tuner GT-R out there, the fact is no Skyline has ever gone that fast

So, how can you say that?

People said that their eyes would fall out at 30mph, and some said that Skylines can't go 250mph... Maybe both are wrong?

I don't want to start an arguement, but I believe it's possible. You can get quite some pulling power out of a robust enough engine, and Bugatti managed the tyres without spending millions.

DE

 

[Dave A]

The first part of that quote was directed at the gearing, I don't know if the car is or isn't geared to hit 250mph, the second part is beceause I do know there hasn't been a single record of a Skyline that can go 250mph barring the one's in Gran Turismo. I can't recall and having ever recorded 230mph, exept maybe just maybe the real HKS R33 GT-R dragster with dragster slicks. Also VAG was funding the Veyron, they spent millions on the tyre's, bugatti didn't spend a single pound on the whole Veyron developemnt or production, VAG funded the whole thing. At the end of the day, the power the engine produces is the power the engine produces, the fact that the GT-R's engine is legendary for it's tuning potential doesn't mean ever bhp it produces is equal to 2 from another engine.

 

[smuttneyspears]

If you'd like to test a FAST Skyline in GT4, go buy the Mine's R34 Skyline. Either as standard or fully tuned to 855bhp it is extremely quick.

If you want to see a Skyline doing 214mph with 1300bhp. (not upto full boost yet though so using 1050 or so Bhp) http://www.youtube.com/watch.php?v=tQklktjovOI&search=Nissan

Another thing is this. The thread was begun with SKYLINE OR SUPRA WHICH IS FASTER, TURNS BETTER, IS BETTER??

I think we have established that the SKYLINE OWNS the SUPRA

 

[Dave A]

And theres all the proof that you need, 1000-1100bhp and it's only (I use the term "only" very, very loosely) doing 214mph, the extra 200bhp will at best get it upto 225mph with gearing that allows for that speed.

 

[smuttneyspears]

No. Because you need only four times the horsepower than the speed increase you want. So for 250mph you will need 35mph so in essence you only need 140BHP to break it.

But we have still proved the Skyline owns the SUPRA. 💡 💡

 

[Dave A]

Well we have proven the Skyline owns the Supra, but you're maths for the power are wrong, at 250mph to get to 251 mph in a car with the same CD as the Veyron requires an extra 9bhp, the ammount of horse power needed to go that extra 1mph increases as your speed increases and it is also variable depending on the CD of the car you trying to increase the speed of. So fior example, for that same car to go from 251mph to 252mph will require say 9.2bhp, not 9bhp, and the power needed will increase ever time the speed increases so for example 252mph to 253mph could take 9.6bhp and 253mph to 254mph could take 10.4bhp ect. Drag isn't cosistent, the faster you are the more the drag is multiplied, the more the drag increases the more power you need to overcome it. To throw that equation out of the window completely, you don't need 120bhp to go 30mph, you can go 30mph with less that 30bhp, in a go-Kart you can go 30mph with less than 5bhp. to hit 100mph, you don't need 400bhp, for a car with 120bhp that can do 120 mph, you don't need another 40bhp to get it to 130mph provided the cars CD is lower than a lorries anyway.

But as the speed increases the ammount of power needed to reach than next 1mph increases, in the Skyline that ammount of power is higher than the ammount the F1 or the Veyron needs because it has a higher drag coefficient. But believe me, getting a car that requires 1300bhp to top out at 225 due to drag requires a hell of a lot more than 140bhp to get to 240mph.

 

[smuttneyspears]

Ok then 140bhp on top of what it already has.

But yes the figures arent completely right. More of a rough stab at it.

I might look more into it all to just see how much BHP you would need to get 250 out of a skyline. 👍 👍

I'll be back


EDIT:

It seems that we are quite wrong in what we are thinking. The Skyline does have a fairly low drag Coefficient. A figure of just 0.32 (not the official one, which I can't find
). I'll work on this abit more and come back to you