which is the most civilsed nation on earth?

[ledhed]

From the definition you show , it seems that you are either civilized or you are not. More or most civilized is a stupid concept and is subjective by the criteria you posted.

 

[Danoff]

us of a is on 37th place on WHO report on health care [24th on infant death, 31st on life expectancy]. costa rica takes better care of its citizens.

The report looks for socialism and claims that is a good thing... it is not. According to the report, the US is less socialist than costa rica - which makes us more civilized.

as mentioned before, you just got out of treating black people as lesser beings. took a long time for a civilised nation. and kkk?

It was expensive (in lives) but we were serious about fixing it so we did.

freedom? of what? im glad not to be american 'cos you could sue me for saying what i think, right?

Not really.

not to forget that you slaughtered the real american people.

Kinda like slavery - not a great moment for US. But keep in mind that the natives were stealing from and killing our people as well. Not exactly the greatest moment for them either.

that usa actually used WMD.

Saved lives on both sides.

that usa made it through ww2 unscratched,

Perl Harbor, D-day (lives)

Bollocks. Healthcare IS life or death. Its a fundamental building block of a civilised society.

Sure, a country's health care technology is a measure of how civilized it is - but that doesn't mean that if a country steals from some to give health care away it is civilized.

Stealing money from some to provide healthcare to those who have not worked for it is theft, immoral, and uncivilized.

He talked about low payed jobs... come on, don't pretend that you didn't get that...

Corporations are not allowed to steal from others in the US. People who work jobs in the US do so voluntarily in a free exchange of services for an agreed upon price.

Well, of course it is important how much of your money you give away... So it is the same when a person that earns 50000 $ a year donates 5000 $ as well as a person that earns 2000000 $ per year ? Yes, maybe the effect is the same, but we are talking about values here

If you're talking about how much good one person does versus another, the normalization of the donated money by how much one earns is not important. Bill gates has voluntarily contributed more in terms of man hours purchased by his donations and accomplished more charitiable good than mother theresa.

A civilization or civilisation has a variety of meanings related to human society. The term comes from the Latin civis, meaning "citizen" or "townsman."

1. In the technical sense, a civilization is a complex society in which many of the people live in cities and get their food from agriculture, as distinguished from band and tribal societies in which people live in small settlements or nomadic groups and make their subsistence by foraging, hunting, or working small horticultural gardens. When used in this sense, civilization is an exclusive term, applied to some human groups and not others.

2. In a broader sense, civilization often can refer to any distinct society, whether complex and city-dwelling, or simple and tribal. This definition is often perceived as less exclusive and ethnocentric than the first. In this sense civilization is nearly synonymous with culture.

3. Civilization can sometimes refer to human society as a whole, as in "A nuclear war would wipe out Civilization" or "I'm glad to be safely back in Civilization after being lost in the wilderness for 3 weeks." Additionally, it is used in this sense to refer to the potential global civilization.

4. Civilization can also mean the standard of behavior, similar to etiquette. "Civilized" behavior is contrasted with "barbaric" or crude behavior. In this sense, civilization implies sophistication and refinement.

5. Another use of civilization combines the first and fourth meanings of the word, implying that a complex society is naturally superior to less complex societies. This point of view has been used to justify racism and imperialism; powerful societies have often believed it was their right to "civilize," or culturally dominate, weaker ones ("barbarians"). This act of civilizing weaker peoples was sometimes called the "White Man's Burden."

This article will mainly treat civilizations in the first, narrow, sense. See culture, society, etiquette, and ethnocentrism and for topics related to the broader senses of the term. See also Problems with the term.

So where is the tax definition you always speak about ?

Number 4.

 

[Max_DC]

From the definition you show , it seems that you are either civilized or you are not. More or most civilized is a stupid concept and is subjective by the criteria you posted.

Difficult subject here I think... because judging over politics ( inner and outer affairs), history, etc and then drawing a line is a bit ... well.. you know I just think that there are too many aspects....

First post in this thread... However, as people started to nominate the US, I had to disagree....
And the criteria were shown by the thread starter :

which is the most civilised nation on earth? i believe a nation can be deemed civilised by its actions, how it treats others, how it treats its own citizens (ie sick, poor, disabled), its view of the world (foreign policy, foreign aid etc), how others nations view that nation, and by its history.
so come on, stand up for your nation and state its good points (as well as its bad points). no matter how big or small your country may be, let us know your views about the place where you live, and give opinions about what you think about other countries.

 

[Danoff]

That's your opinion, not an American opinion. Many Americans would also disagree with you here.

They are immoral.

Looking at the previous remark it shows me that you're contradicting yourself. You say the taxes are theft, yet theft is illegal in the USA. Taxes are legal. What is stealing?

Everything is legal for the government - that doesn't mean it isn't theft. Corporations do not get to define what they are allowed to do within the law, so they are not allowed to steal the belongings of others and call it legal or moral.

Expenditure on development funds should be seen as an amount per capita, you can't compare nominal amounts. Of course the nominal amount of the USA is higher, simply because you guys have more people generating income.

Our ability to have more income allows us to do more good in the world through charity. That's to our credit.

Not enough, many black people still experience racism in their daily lives in the USA, which still can be traced back to slavery and the hanging of blacks by the KKK. Especially in rural areas people still wish that slavery would still exist.

Not every member of American society is totally moral. Some Americans are racist, some are criminals. This is the case with every society. Most racism, however, is propagated by the very people that the racism hurts.

 

[Max_DC]

Sure, a country's health care technology is a measure of how civilized it is - but that doesn't mean that if a country steals from some to give health care away it is civilized.

Stealing money from some to provide healthcare to those who have not worked for it is theft, immoral, and uncivilized.

Ok I'm gonna be a doctor in a few years. Now if I meet an injured person, who can't pay me for my work, I act immorally if I help him for free, so you call that being not civilized ? Ooooooooookey right.... honestly, that is really silly.....

Corporations are not allowed to steal from others in the US. People who work jobs in the US do so voluntarily in a free exchange of services for an agreed upon price.

Wake up, where do you live ? Honeybeecountry ?

If you're talking about how much good one person does versus another, the normalization of the donated money by how much one earns is not important. Bill gates has voluntarily contributed more in terms of man hours purchased by his donations and accomplished more charitiable good than mother theresa.

I have respect for what Bill Gates did, but it is a bad example either because he gave about 10 % of his belongings ( which is by far more than the US government ) or because the richest man in the world would still live like a king with 0.1 % of his money....

Number 4.

Funny that you say number 4.... really funny...

 

[smellysocks12]

They are immoral.

Because they disagree with you?

Everything is legal for the government - that doesn't mean it isn't theft. Corporations do not get to define what they are allowed to do within the law, so they are not allowed to steal the belongings of others and call it legal or moral.

I don't get what point you are trying to make here. All I know is that the position many lower educated people are in is bad in America. They have to earn their education with working, yet they can't get well paid jobs because they aren't educated. In the American system you are caught in a downward spiral, without the government helping you to get out of it. Keeping people poor and low-educated to keep them willing to work for low wages is theft to me, stealing their opportunity to make it in life.

Our ability to have more income allows us to do more good in the world through charity. That's to our credit.

That makes no sense. So you're saying that the USA is the most civilized nation now when looking at the donated charity funds. With your definition the northern American continent would be extremely uncivilized if the USA would have been split up by more national borders. If you would look at the charity donated by the European Union (which would be a more fair comparison), then the EU would pay more donations.

 

[vladimir]

health care is socialism?!


wow, somebody here does neither know what health care is nor what socialism means.

 

[James2097]

Sure, a country's health care technology is a measure of how civilized it is - but that doesn't mean that if a country steals from some to give health care away it is civilized.

Stealing money from some to provide healthcare to those who have not worked for it is theft, immoral, and uncivilized.

So letting someone get really sick and die just because they can't afford healthcare is civilised (or them fearing going to hospital because they're too scared of the charges, even though they desperately need surgery...)? Remember kids also get born with many and various serious health problems, with no chance to 'work' for their right to get decent healthcare. They cannot choose their parents, or how much $$ they have.

Healthcare should not be treated like any other commodity, it is a matter of life and death. In a fair, RICH and civilised society, it SHOULD be a right. America's health system is recognised worldwide for being incredibly screwed and prohibitive to many very needy people. If you don't agree, you can't see beyond your own situation. You're wrong here buddy.

I'm talking about people that REALLY need medical attention here, idiot, not damn liposuction etc. Again, healthcare should not be a commodity, to be bought and sold. Its price should not be set by the free market like everything else in American society. As hard as it is for Americans to be generous for the common good (uber capitalists) and HELP your fellow citizens, decent healthcare should be a RIGHT. You are the richest country on the planet. People that are BORN needing open heart surgery (like me in Australia - I was fine, and didn't have to pay later...Australian Medicare is a FANTASTIC system, no one whinges about tax going to public hospitals - we actually think its GOOD...) should be able to have the needed surgery and not pay a cent. Think of it as an investment in their future, as well as the moral decency to SAVE THEIR LIFE. Capitalism doesn't fit as the perfect solution to EVERY DAMN aspect of life...

Australia (and many other countries) are about a million times further up the road of working out issues like this in a fair way (my mates studying med just LAUGH at your system). You guys need to be a bit more compassionate (ie civil). It won't hurt anywhere near as much as you think. 👍

 

[DemonSeed]

it is a report on health systems in different countries. it doesnt say anything about political systems. i dont know where from came that 'socialism' mention. doesn't matter. if you think it is ok to have a working health service paid by your taxes you are immoral and uncivilised. booo you caveman!


United States of America is the most civilised nation in the world.


Let's just say it for a peace of mind. There is no way Americans would believe otherwise with the national pride they have, or nationalism really. [After all, so much effort was and is being put into brainwashing them to believe it]

Health service funded by taxes is stealing?!? It is, God bless America. 1000 usd from the millionaires pocket is more than 100 from any of us, middle class people. Of course it is, God bless America. And those horrible Indians were robbing them blind, poor Americans. Horrible Indians deserved the carnage. For the country!
Waging wars across the globe is bad? How come?!? Wouldn't you like your country to become one of the united states? It is great, believe me. The land of the free!

 

[smellysocks12]

So letting someone get really sick and die just because they can't afford healthcare is civilised (or them fearing going to hospital because they're too scared of the charges, even though they desperately need surgery...)? Remember kids also get born with many and various serious health problems, with no chance to 'work' for their right to get decent healthcare. They cannot choose their parents, or how much $$ they have.

Healthcare should not be treated like any other commodity, it is a matter of life and death. In a fair, RICH and civilised society, it SHOULD be a right. America's health system is recognised worldwide for being incredibly screwed and prohibitive to many very needy people. If you don't agree, you can't see beyond your own situation. You're wrong here buddy.

I'm talking about people that REALLY need medical attention here, idiot, not damn liposuction etc. Again, healthcare should not be a commodity, to be bought and sold. Its price should not be set by the free market like everything else in American society. As hard as it is for Americans to be generous for the common good (uber capitalists) and HELP your fellow citizens, decent healthcare should be a RIGHT. You are the richest country on the planet. People that are BORN needing open heart surgery (like me in Australia - I was fine, and didn't have to pay later...Australian Medicare is a FANTASTIC system, no one whinges about tax going to public hospitals - we actually think its GOOD...) should be able to have the needed surgery and not pay a cent. Think of it as an investment in their future, as well as the moral decency to SAVE THEIR LIFE. Capitalism doesn't fit as the perfect solution to EVERY DAMN aspect of life...

Australia (and many other countries) are about a million times further up the road of working out issues like this in a fair way (my mates studying med just LAUGH at your system). You guys need to be a bit more compassionate (ie civil). It won't hurt anywhere near as much as you think. 👍

Incredibly well said. I have nothing to add to this.

 

[DemonSeed]

Sure, a country's health care technology is a measure of how civilized it is - but that doesn't mean that if a country steals from some to give health care away it is civilized.
Stealing money from some to provide healthcare to those who have not worked for it is theft, immoral, and uncivilized.

bear in mind, that

In North America, Canada rates as the country with the fairest mechanism for health system finance – ranked at 17-19, while the United States is at 54-55.

which means that they spend a lot, but dont really know how to do it. which may make them feel robed, and wish that all those poor sick people die before reaching hospital.

 

[Danoff]

which means that they spend a lot, but dont really know how to do it. which may make them feel robed, and wish that all those poor sick people die before reaching hospital.

...it's a biased report. "Fair" in the report means "unfair".

Let's just say it for a peace of mind. There is no way Americans would believe otherwise with the national pride they have, or nationalism really. [After all, so much effort was and is being put into brainwashing them to believe it]

that's simply false - at least with me. Most of my posts on this forum are me attacking America and its various laws and programs. I despise much of what American government does. I would be very happy to find a more civilized place to go live and work, but none exists.

Believe it or not, it is grudgingly that I admit that the US is the most civilized nation.

Health service funded by taxes is stealing?!?

Yes. Taking money from one person and giving it to another is theft (with the exception of truly essential government - services that cannot be provided at all by the private sector).

Horrible Indians deserved the carnage.

Nobody here has said that, so I don't know who you're mocking.

Waging wars across the globe is bad? How come?!? Wouldn't you like your country to become one of the united states? It is great, believe me.

The US is not expanding its territory.

So letting someone get really sick and die just because they can't afford healthcare is civilised

It is more civilized than theft.

They cannot choose their parents, or how much $$ they have.

That's a necessary thing for a truly civilized society. Any alternative leads to barbaric use of force.

Healthcare should not be treated like any other commodity, it is a matter of life and death.

So is food, and water, and to a certian extent money... and healthcare is not a commodity, it is a service.

I'm talking about people that REALLY need medical attention here, idiot, not damn liposuction etc.

...you're proving just how civilized you are. I know you're not talking about elective surgery. Neither am I.

Think of it as an investment in their future, as well as the moral decency to SAVE THEIR LIFE.

I'm talking about not compromising your prinicples to save a life. That's civilization, that's morality.

Capitalism doesn't fit as the perfect solution to EVERY DAMN aspect of life...

Not every aspect...

You guys need to be a bit more compassionate (ie civil).

Who are you being compassionate to? The people who have not earned the goods you give them or the people from whom you are ok with stealing?

health care is socialism?!

No. Health care funded through theft is part of socialism.

Because they disagree with you?

No, because they advocate theft.

Keeping people poor and low-educated to keep them willing to work for low wages is theft to me, stealing their opportunity to make it in life.

There are no laws preventing poor people from from obtaining an education. America has the most upwardly mobile society in terms of earnings of anyplace in the world.... and agreeing on a wage for a service is not theft - it's the voluntary exchange of goods.

So you're saying that the USA is the most civilized nation now when looking at the donated charity funds. With your definition the northern American continent would be extremely uncivilized if the USA would have been split up by more national borders.

Yes. I'm saying that the USA is the most civilized nation in terms of charitable donations. And I'm NOT saying that Canada, Mexico, or central America are civilized places.

 

[smellysocks12]

I think I'll stop replying to danoff's posts, his views upon the world/society are completely different from mine and in my opinion also warped. I'll just keep on hoping that people with his type of view on society won't ever get an important function in politics.

 

[James2097]

Danoff, you don't deserve a serious reply, you're verifiably immoral, selfish, and uncivilised. Hopefully just crazy, hopefully you don't really understand what you are arguing, then I could forgive you.
You didn't understand a word of what I was trying to get across.

How old are you? 12?

 

[Carl.]

I'm not sure about the concept of "the most civilised nation", but one concept I find very interesting is the exercice of trying to define the ideal society, as once written by Plato in The Republic, which we can summarize with:

You define what would be the ideal society, and once you're done you wake up being someone in a random position of that society, ranging anywhere from the rich magnate to being a poor family's child.

Now if we apply that to this thread, what country would be the best to wake up in?

Personnally, Canada would sure be on the list, althought I wouldn't claim that it would be the absolute best one to choose, because it's obviously the only one I have extensive and first hand knowledge of. Netherlands and Sweden would sure rank high up on the list too, other candidates could be Denmark, Finland, France, UK, New Zealand and Germany.

That's funny. No obviously 5 year olds do not need to earn their education. Their parents have an obligation to earn their education. But not in America. Here in America one of the things we do in an uncivilized way is steal money from others to support our childrens' education.

[...]

(about the same about healthcare, as discussed a gazillion times)

Ok. So what, in your view, would be the "civilised" thing to do?
Letting the child grow up uneducated, without a real chance to get out of poverty? Letting him die if he needs surgery because his parents cant afford it? I guess since the parents are the ones responsible for this then we make an orphan and put them to jail? Would that be mandatory with parents bankrupcies? Great definition of freedom and civilisation, or a better world. 👍
Oh wait, charity would all take care of this, as empirically demonstrated somehow, somewhere in history...

Thinking of it, that would be awesome, we wouldn't have to exploit Asians or South Americans in sweat shops, we could have our very own, right here on North American soil! Endless opportunities of exercing a better freedom for everyone... Let's stop those low-grade workers leeches ripping us off and stealing us by immoral (if not evil) means such as minimum wages and access to basic healthcare and education.

Oppressed elites of the world, unite!!


those dang taxes uh?

 

[James2097]

Ideal society:

My vote is for waking up in Denmark. In Legoland!!!

My real vote is for New Zealand, because they would be the absolute LAST country on the planet to be threatened by terrorism. They have great services, don't get involved in dodgy American wars like Australia does, and have amazing scenery (see Lord of the Rings movies). They are also a capitalist society (you can still make $$$ if you want), while not letting anyone live in poverty, with a really good compassionate view on health, education etc. Personally I think that if you need urgent healthcare, you should get it, if you want to get into uni, it should be entirely MERIT based (ie you should actually be smart) and it should be paid by the government for you. This will be made back by the government ten times over once you graduate and get a great job, helping the economy faster than you might otherwise, and paying a higher tax bracket faster than you might otherwise.

I believe in governments helping to START you in life really well, so that you become more valuable as a worker (to yourself AND your country...). It helps everyone.

 

[DemonSeed]

ill just say that the report i took data from is world health organization report from 2000. it uses data supplied by the countries. you say it is biased? whatever.


and about native americans, someone said

''But keep in mind that the natives were stealing from and killing our people as well. Not exactly the greatest moment for them either.''


as i said, vatican is the most civilised country [using critieria from original post].

 

[smellysocks12]

The vatican doesn't do anything, anything they do is thanks to the resources of Italy.

 

[DemonSeed]

yes ok . it was a 'joke' proposition, hence the smilie

 

[smellysocks12]

yes ok . it was a 'joke' proposition, hence the smilie

Should've used this one: or or

 

[Max_DC]

your crazy ideas

Hey danoff, has somebody stolen your purse recently or was your house robbed or what ? You always seem to be afraid that someone could steal your money.... So what is your problem ? I tell you something :

In a world as you like to have it, there would be revolution and nobody would buy your goods, and so you wouldn't have any money left the government could steal from you and then you would come to a hospital because somebody has beaten you up because of your strange opinion ( and there was no police left to help you because someone decided that paying police men with taxes is a theaft) and you would arrive at the hospital and ... wow ... guess what ? There is nobody left you could pay with the money you don't have anymore because people have stolen your goods.... You think all this sounds weird ? Oh yes it does, and I hope that this won't come true....

 

[LoudMusic]

Canada.

 

[a6m5]

Boy, looks like a lot of America hatin' went on here this morning! I just want to say, no Americans I know thinks like danoff and Viper Zero. Before you guys start hating USA(maybe it's too late), please know that while U.S. has too many baggage to be named "The Most Civilised Nation On Earth", They are not this evil nation you guys made it out to be. Maybe there was too much arrogance and egging on that came from the U.S. side in this thread.

 

[vladimir]

i actually like america and (most) american people.
and a good friend is the one who tells you the truth not someone who follows you into everything...

 

[Carl.]

i actually like america and (most) american people.
and a good friend is the one who tells you the truth not someone who follows you into everything...

ditto

 

[smellysocks12]

Boy, looks like a lot of America hatin' went on here this morning! I just want to say, no Americans I know thinks like danoff and Viper Zero. Before you guys start hating USA(maybe it's too late), please know that while U.S. has too many baggage to be named "The Most Civilised Nation On Earth", They are not this evil nation you guys made it out to be. Maybe there was too much arrogance and egging on that came from the U.S. side in this thread.

I forgot that you were the first American here with sense in his mind. Sorry!

 

[a6m5]

I forgot that you were the first American here with sense in his mind. Sorry!

That's OK. Actually, I'm an Japanese living in Oregon. No matter what my passport says, Everybody I know, Japanese or American, they all tell I'm an American. I've lived in Oregon, USA for over 18 years now.

Also, as I've said earlier, Americans in general thinks very different than the Americans in this thread.

 

[smellysocks12]

That's OK. Actually, I'm an Japanese living in Oregon. No matter what my passport says, Everybody I know, Japanese or American, they all tell I'm an American. I've lived in Oregon, USA for over 18 years now.

Also, as I've said earlier, Americans in general thinks very different than the Americans in this thread.

Ah, in that case I'm still waiting for the first American to make sense.

 

[a6m5]

Ah, in that case I'm still waiting for the first American to make sense.

You've spent enough time in the "Opinions" forum, you do realize you'll be waiting for a while. j/k

 

[the_undrtaker89]

what about CANADA?!

O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons* command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!
From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.