White Privilege

[th3o]

I'd like a link to this data on Ivy League admissions. I'd also like you to reword it since it appears as if you're saying 1/20 people accepted into Ivy League schools are black and 19/20 are white. It's poorly worded so I'm not entirely sure that's what you're saying but, if that's what you're saying, on it's face I can tell this is blatantly false so I'd like to see where the data is to support it. Also curious as to why not one single member called this obviously blatantly false statement into question.

Cheers mate, it was only a made up example, and i thought it was made clear by me writing "...to make up an example...".
Probably that's why no one took issue with it. It was supposed to say that just because Obama was the first black president, that does not automatically mean there is no white privilege. Or: Just because Danica Patrick made it into Indycar and Nascar, doesn't mean there are no men-networks or other obstacles that might hinder women to enter a men dominated sport.

 

[yas]

It becomes another form of privilege, it's really not difficult.

Then why not call it race privilege? Or simply calling for what it is - racism. Shifting terms is normally used for shifting focus - on this case monopolising racism to the white race. You and I may not feel ashamed, but it used for this - shaming.

 

[UKMikey]

Cheers mate, it was only a made up example, and i thought it was made clear by me writing "...to make up an example...".
Probably that's why no one took issue with it. It was supposed to say that just because Obama was the first black president, that does not automatically mean there is no white privilege. Or: Just because Danica Patrick made it into Indycar and Nascar, doesn't mean there are no men-networks or other obstacles that might hinder women to enter a men dominated sport.

It's funny that although we've had two female Prime Ministers in the UK nobody seems to be using that as an indication that there's no wage gap over here but the minute a black president is elected in the US we're no longer allowed to talk about racism despite his being hounded throughout his tenure to prove that he's an American.

 

[Carbonox]

Cheers mate, it was only a made up example, and i thought it was made clear by me writing "...to make up an example...".
Probably that's why no one took issue with it. It was supposed to say that just because Obama was the first black president, that does not automatically mean there is no white privilege. Or: Just because Danica Patrick made it into Indycar and Nascar, doesn't mean there are no men-networks or other obstacles that might hinder women to enter a men dominated sport.

I find it hard to believe in these 'men networks' nowadays because in recent years, several female racers have had, if anything, a disproportionately high amount of opportunities for their talent level. Milka Duno requires no introduction for IndyCar fans, Danica Patrick was obviously a major flop on the NASCAR side, Jennifer Jo Cobb is equally crappy in trucks though at least she drives her own trucks and doesn't take up a seat from some more deserving driver, in MotoGP we had Carrasco and Herrera spending years on the third highest level with no meaningful career achievements, and now a long-time GP3 grinder Tatiana Calderon has been given an F1 test driver role in spite of an utterly terrible level of success in Europe ever since 2013.

 

[Scaff]

Then why not call it race privilege? Or simply calling for what it is - racism. Shifting terms is normally used for shifting focus - on this case monopolising racism to the white race. You and I may not feel ashamed, but it used for this - shaming.

Because it can also cover gender, sexual preference, income and a whole range of other factors.

It's also not the exact same thing as racism, but conflating the two is a common tool to try and dismiss both.

Now as to why the main subject here at GTP is white privilege, well take a look at the key demographic.

 

[yas]

There is a good term for covering all of these too - discrimination.
Again - shifting terms allowing shifting focus and shaming of whole groups. Instead of the issue being "one group is discriminated on whatever factor", it becomes "one group is not discriminated on that factor so it has an unfair advantage", shifting the blame from the act and actor of discrimination to the group that is not discriminated and its gained advantage.
Or like in PC2 lobbies - agressive drivers often push other drivers thus get ahead. The issue is not to slow down those ahead (catch up option on old NFS series) but to try to prevent aggressive driving. Not all fast drivers are dirty as not all white people are racists.

 

[Scaff]

There is a good term for covering all of these too - discrimination.
Again - shifting terms allowing shifting focus and shaming of whole groups. Instead of the issue being "one group is discriminated on whatever factor", it becomes "one group is not discriminated on that factor so it has an unfair advantage", shifting the blame from the act and actor of discrimination to the group that is not discriminated and its gained advantage.
Or like in PC2 lobbies - agressive drivers often push other drivers thus get ahead. The issue is not to slow down those ahead (catch up option on old NFS series) but to try to prevent aggressive driving. Not all fast drivers are dirty as not all white people are racists.

No one's calling all white people racist.

I'm not sure why you keep coming back to that point or seem obsessed with the exact term used rather than acknowling it happens and opting to be part of the solution!

You don't need to be a racist for white privilege to work to your advantage.

 

[Imari]

There is a good term for covering all of these too - discrimination.

And there are good reasons during a discussion to use terms that are less broad than "discrimination". It might be useful, for example, to have an easy shorthand term for a particular type of discrimination if you were going to discuss it at length.

It could be written in the title of the thread, even.

 

[TenEightyOne]

not all white people are racists.

Are you saying that you think only white people dispense white privilege? If so... you're wrong.

 

[baldgye]

Seems like people don’t understand what White Privilege is, so here is this handy link.

 

[novcze]

Then why not call it race privilege? Or simply calling for what it is - racism. Shifting terms is normally used for shifting focus - on this case monopolising racism to the white race. You and I may not feel ashamed, but it used for this - shaming.

I recommend read through first pages of this thread and it's quite clear that white privilege is term used by racists who are not satisfied with racial demography of their country. It become obvious when you hear that there is a "solution" to white privilege, which is (instead of focusing on equal opportunity) mainly discrimination based on the race.

 

[Scaff]

I recommend read through first pages of this thread and it's quite clear that white privilege is term used by racists who are not satisfied with racial demography of their country. It become obvious when you hear that there is a "solution" to white privilege, which is (instead of focusing on equal opportunity) mainly discrimination based on the race.

That's quite an accusation you seem to be throwing at other members, I do hope you can back that up.

It's also utter nonsense.

 

[novcze]

That's quite an accusation you seem to be throwing at other members, I do hope you can back that up.

It's also utter nonsense.

I didn't address anybody so it's the same as someone here saying that I have white privilege even though that too is nonsense.

btw. white privilege is using racial attributes which is racist by nature, we can talk about majority privilege, class privilege, etc.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I recommend read through first pages of this thread and it's quite clear that white privilege is...

How about you read the actual works on white privilege - many of the definitions argued in this thread are plain false.

 

[Scaff]

I didn't address anybody so it's the same as someone here saying that I have white privilege even though that too is nonsense.

You referenced those who had posted in the "first pages", so yes you did.

btw. white privilege is using racial attributes which is racist by nature,

No it's really not.

(Here's one for you, the very concept of race itself was created to provide privilege to one group, and has little to no basis in science).

we can talk about majority privilege, class privilege, etc.

We have been, you've been do busy sulking about the existence of one firf of privilege to see that.

 

[novcze]

the very concept of race itself was created to provide privilege to one group, and has little to no basis in science

great, so why are we still talking about privilege where color of your skin plays major role.

I'm not sure why you keep coming back to that point or seem obsessed with the exact term used rather than acknowling it happens and opting to be part of the solution!

what is the solution?

 

[Scaff]

great, so why are we still talking about privilege where color of your skin plays major role.
what is the solution?

I'd like you to address the point I raised about the accusations you leveled an un-named members first.

You don't get to make accusations of that degree and then remain unchallenged.

 

[novcze]

I'd like you to address the point I raised about the accusations you leveled an un-named members first.

You don't get to make accusations of that degree and then remain unchallenged.

First part about reading through first pages was meant to @yas to demonstrate that not only him have an issue with the term "white" privilege. Part after "and" is my own wider observation and wasn't meant to imply that it is delivered from this thread. I must admit that use of "and" between the two wasn't best idea when I read it now.

 

[stonesfan129]

So I found this survey about white privilege:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/dayshavedewi/what-is-privilege?utm_term=.lhV5R8Q21#.gwmKoL9EJ


1. If your parents worked nights and weekends to support your family, take one step back.

2. If you are able to move through the world without fear of sexual assault, take one step forward.

3. If you can show affection for your romantic partner in public without fear of ridicule or violence, take one step forward.

4. If you have ever been diagnosed as having a physical or mental illness/disability, take one step back.

5. If the primary language spoken in your household growing up was not english, take one step back.

6. If you came from a supportive family environment take one step forward.

7. If you have ever tried to change your speech or mannerisms to gain credibility, take one step back.

8. If you can go anywhere in the country, and easily find the kinds of hair products you need and/or cosmetics that match your skin color, take one step forward.

9. If you were embarrassed about your clothes or house while growing up, take one step back.

10. If you can make mistakes and not have people attribute your behavior to flaws in your racial/gender group, take one step forward.

11. If you can legally marry the person you love, regardless of where you live, take one step forward.

12. If you were born in the United States, take one step forward.

13. If you or your parents have ever gone through a divorce, take one step back.

14. If you felt like you had adequate access to healthy food growing up, take one step forward

15. If you are reasonably sure you would be hired for a job based on your ability and qualifications, take one step forward.

16. If you would never think twice about calling the police when trouble occurs, take one step forward.

17. If you can see a doctor whenever you feel the need, take one step forward.

18. If you feel comfortable being emotionally expressive/open, take one step forward.

19. If you have ever been the only person of your race/gender/socio-economic status/ sexual orientation in a classroom or workplace setting, please take one step back.

20. If you took out loans for your education take one step backward.

21. If you get time off for your religious holidays, take one step forward.

22. If you had a job during your high school and college years, take one step back.

23. If you feel comfortable walking home alone at night, take one step forward.

24. If you have ever traveled outside the United States, take one step forward.

25. If you have ever felt like there was NOT adequate or accurate representation of your racial group, sexual orientation group, gender group, and/or disability group in the media, take one step back.

26. If you feel confident that your parents would be able to financially help/support you if you were going through a financial hardship, take one step forward.

27. If you have ever been bullied or made fun of based on something that you can't change, take one step back.

28. If there were more than 50 books in your house growing up, take one step forward.

29. If you studied the culture or the history of your ancestors in elementary school take one step forward.

30. If your parents or guardians attended college, take one step forward.

31. If you ever went on a family vacation, take one step forward.

32. If you can buy new clothes or go out to dinner when you want to, take one step forward.

33. If you were ever offered a job because of your association with a friend or family member, take one step forward.

34. If one of your parents was ever laid off or unemployed not by choice, take one step back.

35. If you were ever uncomfortable about a joke or a statement you overheard related to your race, ethnicity, gender, appearance, or sexual orientation but felt unsafe to confront the situation, take one step back.

1. Yes my parents often worked nights and weekends.

2. I don't think anyone can really take a step forward. Men can be the subjects of sexual assault just as much as women can.


3. I guess I cannot take a step forward. I am a white man and interracial relationships are still frowned upon in a lot of places.


4. Does epilepsy count as a physical disability?

5. The primary language in my household was English. In my grandparents' homes, it was Greek and Italian.


6. One step forward.

7. I would question the credibility of this. I am properly educated and therefore can use speech or mannerisms that others can understand. That isn't privilege.

8. One step forward. White people are the majority in this country so I don't understand how that is privilege. It's just businesses catering to the majority of their customers.

9. How is this privilege? I wasn't embarrassed about my home or clothes ever. As said, my parents and their parents both worked hard so their family could benefit. It's not privilege because I had a better home or clothes growing up.

10. Where do people attribute mistakes to your racial/ethnic group?

11. One step forward.

12. One step forward.

13. Nope.

14. Again, this is not privilege. It is called having responsible parents.

15. One step forward. This is not privilege. It's because I am qualified for the position I am applying for.

16. Nope, I call the police.

17. Not privilege. It's called working hard, getting an education and therefore a career that has good health insurance.

18. Nope. Expressing emotions is not masculine.

19. Nope. Again, not privilege. It is just the fact that white people are the majority in my area.

20. Nope. I never borrowed money I couldn't pay back. Not privilege. Again, it's a lack of responsibility.

21. Benefits of having a good career, not privilege.

22. One step back.

23. One step forward.

24. One step forward.

25. Nope.

26. One step forward. Again, not privilege. It's called having responsible parents.

27. One step back.

28. Nope.

29. One step forward.

30. One step forward.

31. One step forward.

32. One step forward.

33. I was told about an opening by a family member. I got hired for the position because I was qualified and interviewed well.

34. One step back.

35. One step back


I don't really think of myself as privileged. A lot of the nice things I had growing up were the result of my parents working hard for it because their parents instilled a sense of hard work into them. I have a home and nice things because my parents encouraged me to work hard and get an education. I never got to go to a prestigious university either like University of Wisconsin. I had to go to a community college and pay for it myself by working construction for four years because my parents couldn't afford to put me through college. How come it's not black privilege or asian privilege when those groups get into these universities on scholarship programs or other 'assistance' things essentially for free?

In reading through some of these questions, my thoughts are that the idea of "white privilege" isn't really the idea that you get things or get preferential treatment because of your race or ethnicity. It seems like it's just another way to create equal outcome. And in doing so, it creates more problems than it solves. It's another failed marxist experiment. Some people have more opportunities. Some people have better outcomes. That's called life. And by trying to 'level the playing field' you make things less fair.

 

[Scaff]

So I found this survey about white privilege:





1. Yes my parents often worked nights and weekends.

2. I don't think anyone can really take a step forward. Men can be the subjects of sexual assault just as much as women can.


3. I guess I cannot take a step forward. I am a white man and interracial relationships are still frowned upon in a lot of places.


4. Does epilepsy count as a physical disability?

5. The primary language in my household was English. In my grandparents' homes, it was Greek and Italian.


6. One step forward.

7. I would question the credibility of this. I am properly educated and therefore can use speech or mannerisms that others can understand. That isn't privilege.

8. One step forward. White people are the majority in this country so I don't understand how that is privilege. It's just businesses catering to the majority of their customers.

9. How is this privilege? I wasn't embarrassed about my home or clothes ever. As said, my parents and their parents both worked hard so their family could benefit. It's not privilege because I had a better home or clothes growing up.

10. Where do people attribute mistakes to your racial/ethnic group?

11. One step forward.

12. One step forward.

13. Nope.

14. Again, this is not privilege. It is called having responsible parents.

15. One step forward. This is not privilege. It's because I am qualified for the position I am applying for.

16. Nope, I call the police.

17. Not privilege. It's called working hard, getting an education and therefore a career that has good health insurance.

18. Nope. Expressing emotions is not masculine.

19. Nope. Again, not privilege. It is just the fact that white people are the majority in my area.

20. Nope. I never borrowed money I couldn't pay back. Not privilege. Again, it's a lack of responsibility.

21. Benefits of having a good career, not privilege.

22. One step back.

23. One step forward.

24. One step forward.

25. Nope.

26. One step forward. Again, not privilege. It's called having responsible parents.

27. One step back.

28. Nope.

29. One step forward.

30. One step forward.

31. One step forward.

32. One step forward.

33. I was told about an opening by a family member. I got hired for the position because I was qualified and interviewed well.

34. One step back.

35. One step back


I don't really think of myself as privileged. A lot of the nice things I had growing up were the result of my parents working hard for it because their parents instilled a sense of hard work into them. I have a home and nice things because my parents encouraged me to work hard and get an education. I never got to go to a prestigious university either like University of Wisconsin. I had to go to a community college and pay for it myself by working construction for four years because my parents couldn't afford to put me through college. How come it's not black privilege or asian privilege when those groups get into these universities on scholarship programs or other 'assistance' things essentially for free?

In reading through some of these questions, my thoughts are that the idea of "white privilege" isn't really the idea that you get things or get preferential treatment because of your race or ethnicity. It seems like it's just another way to create equal outcome. And in doing so, it creates more problems than it solves. It's another failed marxist experiment. Some people have more opportunities. Some people have better outcomes. That's called life. And by trying to 'level the playing field' you make things less fair.

So an anecdotal sample size of one, with a preset bias = it's Marxist.

That's not the most convincing argument I've heard.

 

[stonesfan129]

So an anecdotal sample size of one, with a preset bias = it's Marxist.

That's not the most convincing argument I've heard.

Maybe more people will take that survey and we can get a larger sampling size. I am simply sharing my own thoughts on it. You're free to disagree with me.

 

[Scaff]

Maybe more people will take that survey and we can get a larger sampling size. I am simply sharing my own thoughts on it. You're free to disagree with me.

I have and I do.

 

[stonesfan129]

"White privilege" isn't the idea that you get things or get preferential treatment because of your race or ethnicity. It is another way to create equal outcome. And in doing so, it creates more problems than it solves. Change my mind.

 

[Scaff]

"White privilege" isn't the idea that you get things or get preferential treatment because of your race or ethnicity.

Sorry, but yes it is.

It also goes beyond race and ethnicity, expletives of which you have cited yourself.

It is another way to create equal outcome. And in doing so, it creates more problems than it solves.

Nope, it's not.

Change my mind.

Given your insistence to redefine it to something it's not, that's patently impossible.

 

[PocketZeven]

So I found this survey about white privilege:





1. Yes my parents often worked nights and weekends.

2. I don't think anyone can really take a step forward. Men can be the subjects of sexual assault just as much as women can.


3. I guess I cannot take a step forward. I am a white man and interracial relationships are still frowned upon in a lot of places.


4. Does epilepsy count as a physical disability?

5. The primary language in my household was English. In my grandparents' homes, it was Greek and Italian.


6. One step forward.

7. I would question the credibility of this. I am properly educated and therefore can use speech or mannerisms that others can understand. That isn't privilege.

8. One step forward. White people are the majority in this country so I don't understand how that is privilege. It's just businesses catering to the majority of their customers.

9. How is this privilege? I wasn't embarrassed about my home or clothes ever. As said, my parents and their parents both worked hard so their family could benefit. It's not privilege because I had a better home or clothes growing up.

10. Where do people attribute mistakes to your racial/ethnic group?

11. One step forward.

12. One step forward.

13. Nope.

14. Again, this is not privilege. It is called having responsible parents.

15. One step forward. This is not privilege. It's because I am qualified for the position I am applying for.

16. Nope, I call the police.

17. Not privilege. It's called working hard, getting an education and therefore a career that has good health insurance.

18. Nope. Expressing emotions is not masculine.

19. Nope. Again, not privilege. It is just the fact that white people are the majority in my area.

20. Nope. I never borrowed money I couldn't pay back. Not privilege. Again, it's a lack of responsibility.

21. Benefits of having a good career, not privilege.

22. One step back.

23. One step forward.

24. One step forward.

25. Nope.

26. One step forward. Again, not privilege. It's called having responsible parents.

27. One step back.

28. Nope.

29. One step forward.

30. One step forward.

31. One step forward.

32. One step forward.

33. I was told about an opening by a family member. I got hired for the position because I was qualified and interviewed well.

34. One step back.

35. One step back


I don't really think of myself as privileged. A lot of the nice things I had growing up were the result of my parents working hard for it because their parents instilled a sense of hard work into them. I have a home and nice things because my parents encouraged me to work hard and get an education. I never got to go to a prestigious university either like University of Wisconsin. I had to go to a community college and pay for it myself by working construction for four years because my parents couldn't afford to put me through college. How come it's not black privilege or asian privilege when those groups get into these universities on scholarship programs or other 'assistance' things essentially for free?

In reading through some of these questions, my thoughts are that the idea of "white privilege" isn't really the idea that you get things or get preferential treatment because of your race or ethnicity. It seems like it's just another way to create equal outcome. And in doing so, it creates more problems than it solves. It's another failed marxist experiment. Some people have more opportunities. Some people have better outcomes. That's called life. And by trying to 'level the playing field' you make things less fair.

White privilege is just a leftist label. As a non-white I do know as a fact that in western (white) countries you need to work harder to be accepted or treated the same as a "white" person (social or professional). This is something a "white" person will never ever understand.

What does worry me more is "white supremacy". There is no (with small exceptions) black/latino/Asian Supremacy etc. movement. There might be nationalism or religious differences, but I don't know any large minority movement who believe that 1 race is supreme then others. There might be some small groups of excentric who think that way, but in no way as large as the white supremacy movement.

 

[th3o]

@stonesfan129

You do however have to take into consideration that the world is not starting from zero for everyone. If you are born rich then statistically you'll probably die rich. If you are born poor than statistically you probably will die poor. Of course there are success-stories, no one is denying that. But they are getting celebrated exactly because they are not the normality. The normality is sentence 2+3.
The 'opportunities' are the same for both people here, as in: If you have this and that result in your highschool degree then you will be accepted into college. The only fine difference is that the setting in which these two people learn, live and get educated, their surroundings, can be very different and might not be that easily changed by them. You think it's easy for a 5 years old to just leave home if his father is a drunkard who is hitting him? And you think learning the same stuff for school as a kid from a rich family where everything is cool is exactly the same?

There are inequalities not because people are different, but because the starting positions in the competition of capitalism for a good job or a good life are not equal at all while what you have to achieve is equal for all.
Imagine starting for a 200m sprint just with the difference that it's 200m just for one person whereas the next one is 5m behind him but still has to get to that same finish line as the one 5m ahead of him etc. That's basically how it is for someone coming from a poor or underprivileged background. You basically have to run longer and it is totally not your fault that you are in that position. So why not getting somewhat of a 'helping hand'?
I do not say to level out everything because that is just not possible. But certain programs which consider race or gender or what class circumstances you come from are just a mere try to somewhat level out the bad setting (compared to others) some people grow up in. And i actually see nothing bad in that at all. It's not like you get stuff for free, you still have to work your ass off, but when it may come to a job, where the rich kid has the same result as you, then you get that job before that rich kid because of his background this rich kid most likely will anyways get the next job he applies for.

 

[Exorcet]

White privilege is just a leftist label. As a non-white I do know as a fact that in western (white) countries you need to work harder to be accepted or treated the same as a "white" person (social or professional). This is something a "white" person will never ever understand.

"Need to" seems strong to me. Again, I've never really seen it when it comes to race or sex. As before, that doesn't mean that an issue doesn't exist, but it makes me wonder how widespread it is. It's also something that a privileged person should see very easily unless they are completely isolated from people who differ from them.

 

[baldgye]

"Need to" seems strong to me. Again, I've never really seen it when it comes to race or sex. As before, that doesn't mean that an issue doesn't exist, but it makes me wonder how widespread it is. It's also something that a privileged person should see very easily unless they are completely isolated from people who differ from them.

If only there where statistics...

 

[th3o]

I don't know any large minority movement who believe that 1 race is supreme then others. There might be some small groups of excentric who think that way, but in no way as large as the white supremacy movement.

That's actually a good point made. Just let that sink in...

 

[Exorcet]

If only there where statistics...

I don't think you got my point. I disagree with "need to". I'm fully aware that discrimination exists, but I've seen nothing to suggest that it's a given in the lives of minorities.