White Privilege

[Imari]

As a white person you don't and will never understand.

Don't do this. White people may not have exactly the same hardships that you have, but that doesn't mean that some of us can't relate. Some of us have also faced systemic adversity. Some of us have also lived in cultures where whites are a minority.

I don't like the name "white privilege" as a descriptor, though I don't disagree that the systemic societal biases that it describes exist. But let's not pretend that just because someone is white they're incapable of comprehending what the experience might be like for someone who is non-white. That's just as bad.

I get the feeling some people see the concept of white privilege as a personal slight on themselves when it's simply an attempt to explain the way things work, a worldview. No judgment is implied in its invocation as far as I can see.

There is a bit. It's in how it's chosen to be presented as "white privilege" rather than "non-white disadvantages". Whenever a problem is presented, the immediate implication is usually "how can we fix this?". And usually the easiest fix is just to remove the problem altogether.

But actually, we don't really want to remove white privilege. We want to bring everyone up to that standard. The problem is that non-whites are disadvantaged. That whites are not disadvantaged is not a problem in and of itself. It's placing the burden of blame on people who had no more choice in the matter than non-whites.

I don't like the term "white privilege" because it strongly implies that one should remove privilege from whites. But we shouldn't. We should extend the "privileges" that whites experience, which are mostly just basic parts of a well-ordered society, and make sure that they apply to everyone. It shouldn't be about creating equality by dragging those at the top down, it should be about elevating those at the bottom so that they get a fair shake too.

While "white privilege" started as an academic term, I get the feeling that it's become so popular in large part because it's a way for non-whites to feel like they're decrying the fat cat elitist whites with their easy lives. But actually, it alienates a decent proportion of whites who haven't really had that experience at all. The lower half of the white population probably has had many of the same experiences as non-whites, albeit on average to a lesser extent or quantity. But this labelling of anyone who is white as automatically part of this privileged super-class without taking into account all the other things that go into the western social experience is just horrendously dismissive.

 

[PocketZeven]

Don't do this. White people may not have exactly the same hardships that you have, but that doesn't mean that some of us can't relate. Some of us have also faced systemic adversity. Some of us have also lived in cultures where whites are a minority.

I don't like the name "white privilege" as a descriptor, though I don't disagree that the systemic societal biases that it describes exist. But let's not pretend that just because someone is white they're incapable of comprehending what the experience might be like for someone who is non-white. That's just as bad.



There is a bit. It's in how it's chosen to be presented as "white privilege" rather than "non-white disadvantages". Whenever a problem is presented, the immediate implication is usually "how can we fix this?". And usually the easiest fix is just to remove the problem altogether.

But actually, we don't really want to remove white privilege. We want to bring everyone up to that standard. The problem is that non-whites are disadvantaged. That whites are not disadvantaged is not a problem in and of itself. It's placing the burden of blame on people who had no more choice in the matter than non-whites.

I don't like the term "white privilege" because it strongly implies that one should remove privilege from whites. But we shouldn't. We should extend the "privileges" that whites experience, which are mostly just basic parts of a well-ordered society, and make sure that they apply to everyone. It shouldn't be about creating equality by dragging those at the top down, it should be about elevating those at the bottom so that they get a fair shake too.

While "white privilege" started as an academic term, I get the feeling that it's become so popular in large part because it's a way for non-whites to feel like they're decrying the fat cat elitist whites with their easy lives. But actually, it alienates a decent proportion of whites who haven't really had that experience at all. The lower half of the white population probably has had many of the same experiences as non-whites, albeit on average to a lesser extent or quantity. But this labelling of anyone who is white as automatically part of this privileged super-class without taking into account all the other things that go into the western social experience is just horrendously dismissive.

Please read my earlier posts. I also dislike the term. People tend to think of entitlement when talking about privilege. And white people wont understand and that is perfectly acceptable. A black/white/ brown person will never understand it from a white persons view. that doesn't mean a black/white/Asian person cannot relate with eachother. I agree with you, but just wanted to clarify the quoted statement.

 

[Danoff]

As a white person you don't and will never understand.

As @Imari says above, don't do that. Human beings have brains which are specifically designed to enable them to comprehend something that they have not experienced. @Imari points out that you can relate to things based on your own experiences, and that's true. But you can also understand things that you have never experienced. For instance, I have never been invisible, and yet I can comprehend what it would be like to be invisible. I have never been a blonde haired girl wearing silks riding a fire breathing dragon, but I can wrap my head around what that might be like too.

 

[PocketZeven]

As @Imari says above, don't do that. Human beings have brains which are specifically designed to enable them to comprehend something that they have not experienced. @Imari points out that you can relate to things based on your own experiences, and that's true. But you can also understand things that you have never experienced. For instance, I have never been invisible, and yet I can comprehend what it would be like to be invisible. I have never been a blonde haired girl wearing silks riding a fire breathing dragon, but I can wrap my head around what that might be like too.

English is not my first language. Not understanding does not mean not relating. I meant like "men will never and never understand how it feels to be pregnant". that's perfectly acceptable. I just pointed out that how much a white person may try he will never understand how a minority feels in a dominant white society. I think I might chose the wrong words?

 

[Danoff]

English is not my first language. Not understanding does not mean not relating. I meant like "men will never and never understand how it feels to be pregnant". that's perfectly acceptable. I just pointed out that how much a white person may try he will never understand how a minority feels in a dominant white society. I think I might chose the wrong words?

Everyone is a minority in some respects. So even if you think men cannot understand what it feels like to be pregnant (we have imaginations, we can do a pretty good job, we can even talk to pregnant ladies and ask questions), we all live in that minority. So we all have direct experience in that regard.

For example, I'm an atheist and a libertarian. I'm also in a minority income or wealth bracket. You don't think any of these give me any insight? You have a very small opinion of my mental capacity.

 

[PocketZeven]

Everyone is a minority in some respects. So even if you think men cannot understand what it feels like to be pregnant (we have imaginations, we can do a pretty good job, we can even talk to pregnant ladies and ask questions), we all live in that minority. So we all have direct experience in that regard.

For example, I'm an atheist and a libertarian. I'm also in a minority income or wealth bracket. You don't think any of these give me any insight? You have a very small opinion of my mental capacity.

Damn it I chose my words wrong again! I meant a non white in a predominantly white country.

 

[McLaren]

The higearning Asians you mentioned are either entrepeneurs or high earning professionals. So either they excelled at school or they worked long hours to build up a business. So they actually needed to get higher grades then their "white" peers to stand out.

It's not their "white" peers they're working to stand out against with their grades. It's other minorities & themselves.

In court papers, Arlington, Virginia-based Students for Fair Admissions said an Asian-American male applicant with a 25 percent chance of admission would have a 35 percent chance if he was white, 75 percent if he were Hispanic and a 95 percent chance if he were black.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/330510-harvard-records-show-discrimination-against-asian-americans

I only have a 10% higher chance than you, where as Hispanics and black double our odds. My white privilege is not good enough for Ivy League schools, it seems.

In New York, Mayor Bill de Blasio recently recommended changing the admissions criteria for the city’s most elite public schools, where Asian-Americans are vastly overrepresented and black and Latino students are underrepresented. Currently, the only metric for admission is a test, but Mr. de Blasio wants to allot seats to the top students from all of the city’s middle schools, which would most likely cut into the number of spots for Asian-Americans.

Mr. Park said he found the plan discriminatory, but not because he thought there was animosity toward Asian-American students. The problem, he said, was that it forced Asian-Americans to give up something instead of compelling high-performing schools that are predominantly white to integrate.

Take note that the special schools Mr. Park is referring to as predominately white, give half its offers to Asians over whites.

Black and Hispanic students make up nearly 70 percent of the city’s public school students, but they received just 10 percent of offers for seats at specialized schools this fall. Both white and Asian students, on the other hand, are overrepresented. About 27 percent of the offers went to white students, who make up 15 percent of the school system; 52 percent went to Asian students, who make up 16 percent.

BTW, the man you claimed needed an enemy to feed his followers is the one who just rolled back Affirmative Action from having an effect on education.

Affirmative action: Trump 'to scrap' college racial bias policy

Academic affirmative action - known as positive action in the UK- which involves favouring minorities during the admissions process in order to promote campus diversity, has long proved controversial in the US.

The lawsuit against Harvard currently filed by the Students for Fair Admissions alleges that the college holds Asian-American applicants to an unfairly high admissions standard.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44703874

 

[Imari]

And white people wont understand and that is perfectly acceptable.

Why not? Break it down for me logically. Why is it impossible for a white person to understand what life might be like for someone who isn't white?

A black/white/ brown person will never understand it from a white persons view.

I'm going to assume that you meant to put something other than white in between black and brown.

As above, break it down logically. Why is it impossible for a non-white to understand what life might be like for a white person?

I mean, how can a non-white person believe in white privilege if this is so? That's an aspect of being white that they shouldn't be able to understand, by the above logic. But I don't buy that. Non-whites can absolutely understand that advantages that exist in society due to skin colour, just as whites can.

I just pointed out that how much a white person may try he will never understand how a minority feels in a dominant white society. I think I might chose the wrong words?

Nope, your words are fine but you're just wrong. What if a white person had lived in a community or society what was non-white dominated, where the white person faced similar or the same disadvantages that non-whites face in countries like the US?

I lived in Japan for a number of years. Non-asians are a tiny, tiny minority. We're a bit of an attraction because of the western culture worship, but we get shut out of basically everything. It's damn near impossible to get anything outside of a handful of prescribed jobs without serious help. You will straight up be asked to leave some establishments, or they won't serve you. You will be denied housing because of your race. If you somehow get into legal trouble, you will be assumed to be at fault. You will constantly be stopped on the street by the police. If you're a girl, creepy Japanese guys will try to fondle or rape you.

So tell me again how a white person can't understand what it's like to be a minority.

 

[Danoff]

I meant a non white in a predominantly white country.

I've been white in a predominantly non-white country, does that count?

No, I have never been non-white. That does not mean that I can't use my brain to figure out what that would be like.

 

[PocketZeven]

I've been white in a predominantly non-white country, does that count?

No, I have never been non-white. That does not mean that I can't use my brain to figure out what that would be like.

Relating isn't the same as fully understanding.

Why not? Break it down for me logically. Why is it impossible for a white person to understand what life might be like for someone who isn't white?



I'm going to assume that you meant to put something other than white in between black and brown.

As above, break it down logically. Why is it impossible for a non-white to understand what life might be like for a white person?

I mean, how can a non-white person believe in white privilege if this is so? That's an aspect of being white that they shouldn't be able to understand, by the above logic. But I don't buy that. Non-whites can absolutely understand that advantages that exist in society due to skin colour, just as whites can.



Nope, your words are fine but you're just wrong. What if a white person had lived in a community or society what was non-white dominated, where the white person faced similar or the same disadvantages that non-whites face in countries like the US?

I lived in Japan for a number of years. Non-asians are a tiny, tiny minority. We're a bit of an attraction because of the western culture worship, but we get shut out of basically everything. It's damn near impossible to get anything outside of a handful of prescribed jobs without serious help. You will straight up be asked to leave some establishments, or they won't serve you. You will be denied housing because of your race. If you somehow get into legal trouble, you will be assumed to be at fault. You will constantly be stopped on the street by the police. If you're a girl, creepy Japanese guys will try to fondle or rape you.

So tell me again how a white person can't understand what it's like to be a minority.

It wasn't mean to offend at all. But to make a point there is a difference between relating and fully understanding. As previously discussed you cannot compare two cultures, because they react differently. I also know a lot of old ( white) classmates who live/lived in japan and they only told me of the advantages of being white in Japan. Every experience is personal, I wont pretend to understand how Mexicans and blacks feel in the US as they wont understand how it feels to be Asian in Europe.


Historically there have been more movements for Supremacy of a certain race in white society then any other race.

 

[Danoff]

Relating isn't the same as fully understanding.

That's all anyone is doing. When a non-white person agrees with another non-white person about "white privilege", they're relating to one another. Neither of them understands what it is like to be the other person. Every one of us belongs to a minority of size 1.

 

[McLaren]

Historically there have been more movements for Supremacy of a certain race in white society then any other race.

What does having "more than others" have to do with anything? Not like it negates the fact white people have also been at the hands of serious racial oppression, even in this century.

Zimbabwe Rounding Up White Farmers

Police spokesman Andrew Phiri said today that authorities had arrested 133 farmers who failed to comply with the government's Aug. 8 deadline to surrender their property without compensation. An advocacy group for Zimbabwe's commercial farmers, Justice for Agriculture (JAG), said police had made 141 arrests since the roundup began Thursday.

Both numbers represent only a fraction of the 2,900 white farmers who have been ordered off their land. But the arrests demonstrate Mugabe's commitment to execute the evictions despite a potentially disastrous food shortage, widespread international condemnation and a court ruling this month that said the evictions are illegal without proper notification of banks holding farmers' mortgages.

"This is not [British Prime Minister Tony] Blair's land," Mugabe said, referring to the former colonial power that he alleges is part of a racist, Western plot to topple him and preserve the status quo in Zimbabwe. "This is Mugabe's land. This is the land of our ancestors."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...e2f-801c-80f125589a6e/?utm_term=.fe0b8d95122d

The greatest part of this is that Mugabe gave the land to people who had no idea how to farm it. What he saw as justice for his people resulted in food shortages. 15 years later, they asked those farmers back for help, despite Mugabe holding on to his racist views that whites will somehow steal the country again.

“The problem now is that we have the land, but they have the experience,” said Mutinhiri, a black landowner. “We need to help each other.”

President Robert Mugabe has warned that forging ties with white farmers is a step backward. He initially won fame as a guerrilla fighter against white minority rule, which ended with Zimbabwe’s independence in 1980.

“We can’t have another war to liberate a country we have already liberated,” Mugabe said last month, speaking about the increasing number of white farmers now advising or managing black-owned farms.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4e933de5857c

Mugabe single handedly crushed his economy, the forcing of whites off Zimbabwe land the final blow to it.

RUSAPE, Zimbabwe (Reuters) - The last time white Zimbabwean farmer Rob Smart left his land it was at gunpoint, forced out in June by riot police armed with tear gas and AK-47 assault rifles.

Mnangagwa became president last month following a de facto coup that ended 93-year-old Mugabe’s rule. In the latter half of his 37 years in power, Zimbabwe’s economy collapsed, especially after the seizure of thousands of white-owned commercial farms under the banner of post-colonial land reform.

Twenty years later, Mugabe authorized the violent invasion of many white-owned farms and justified it on the grounds that it was redressing imbalances from the colonial era.

White farmers complained that well connected people used state security forces to force them off their farms, sometimes in the middle of harvesting, even after the Mugabe government indicated, some four years ago, that land seizures were over.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...n-farmer-returns-to-seized-land-idUSKBN1EF2US

President Mnangagwa has said this year they will not return the land to white farmers, but will instead offer 99-year leases. This was the correct way of doing things to begin with.

So, whilst you claim white people can't understand, only relate, this family seems to understand quite well what an African American went through in America.

In 2008, Mike Campbell was abducted by militiamen in Zimbabwe along with his wife and son-in-law. Savagely beaten by their captors—believed to be loyal to Zimbabwe’s then-President Robert Mugabe—the family were dumped by the edge of the road.

Campbell’s crime, as his captors saw it, was being a white man that owned land in Zimbabwe. Eight years earlier, Mugabe had instituted controversial reforms that empowered black Zimbabweans—often Mugabe’s cronies or members of the ruling ZANU-PF— to forcibly repossess white-owned land.

Campbell had opposed the reforms and took Mugabe to court, eventually resulting in a November 2008 ruling by a regional tribunal that ordered the Zimbabwe government to protect farmers’ rights. The ruling was ignored by Mugabe and three years later, in 2011, Campbell died as a result of the injuries he suffered.

Looks like white South Africans may have a pretty good understanding as well.

While South Africa has one of the highest rates of violent crime anywhere in the world, the attacks on white farmers are no ordinary crimes.

In a 2014 report, “The Reality of Farm Tortures in South Africa”, AfriForum wrote that “the horror experienced during farm tortures is almost incomprehensible”.

While sometimes farmers and their families are tortured to obtain information, such as the whereabouts of keys to the safe, human rights groups say the excessive brutality may be intended to send a message to the general farming community — get out of our country.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/eco...e/news-story/3a63389a1b0066b6b0b77522c06d6476

Cultural difference arguments aren't going to matter here. The level of violence and motive behind it is the same; you can't own property and you don't belong here.

 

[Rallywagon]

I think is "relating is not understanding " thing is a coup out. I went through my early years (3-12) poor as all get out, living in a very educated, very rich city. I cant even begin to relate all of the stories of all the adversity I faced. Constant ridicule from peers and school faculty alike. The bullying, the loneliness, the self doubt all of that has created. When I hear someone yell "white privilege, you dont understand" I cant help but thing, that's a really shallow, ignorant view point. You are doing exactly the thing you think you are standing against. You are telling me, because of my race, that I dont understand something. Its, in my eyes, quite hypocritical at best.
As Imari pointed out, and ive said at the outset of this thread. The idea of white privilege is BS. It's a standard all should be at, something everyone should be able to attain.

 

[huskeR32]

I cant even begin to relate all of the stories of all the adversity I faced.

The idea of "white privilege" doesn't preclude this. You've presumably become more successful than the "poor as all get out" childhood you experienced. You undoubtedly overcame many obstacles on that road, and my hat's off to you for working hard.

Now, take all of those obstacles you faced, and add to it that you're black, and your name is Jamal. Because your name "sounds black," you're 33% less likely to get a callback when applying for a job. So you had to apply to 50% more jobs than Brad, who is the other finalist for the job that you finally got an interview for. On your way there, you get stopped for speeding. As a black man, you're three times more likely to have that stop result in a search of you and your vehicle, and today is your unlucky day. You get searched, miss the interview, Brad gets the job. Since black families are, on average, 90% less wealthy, your parents can't help you out with your student loan payments during your job search, you're forced to start working low-paying jobs, and you start to go further into debt.

You and Brad grew up in the same poor neighborhood and went to the same under-funded public school, and took out the same amount of student loans to put yourselves through college. Within one year of graduating, you and Brad find yourself in very different places.

"White privilege" doesn't say that Brad had it all handed to him and never faced any obstacles. It just says that none of those obstacles were because he was white.

 

[Danoff]

"White privilege" doesn't say that Brad had it all handed to him and never faced any obstacles. It just says that none of those obstacles were because he was white.

But Brad was turned down for his interview as a preschool teacher because he was male (Jamal was going to be also btw).

Everyone is in a disadvantaged group in some respect. Some groups are more disadvantaged than others, but there is no such thing as avoiding disadvantage or bias. Whatever disadvantages you have, whether you don't belong to the sight privileged, or the mobility privileged, or the multi-arm privileged group, it doesn't matter... your life is your own. Overcome whatever adversities you face, and we all face them.

Life is not fair, and it's not going to be legislated to be fair, or wished to be fair. People will treat you differently because you're not beauty-privileged, or skinny privileged. You'll have a harder time socializing or getting a job because you don't belong to the privileged group that had two parents, or loving parents, or a mother who chose not to do drugs while she was pregnant. Maybe you aren't as tall, or muscular. Maybe you have a lazy eye or never shook that stutter.

The obsession with skin color is so tiresome and superficial. We should all go obsess about people who really were born disadvantaged. Go find someone who got dealt a worse hand than you did and remind yourself that everyone has something to overcome.

 

[huskeR32]

But Brad was turned down for his interview as a preschool teacher because he was male (Jamal was going to be also btw).

That was kind of my whole point; the idea of white privilege doesn't say that there aren't other forms of privilege, or that whites don't face any obstacles. I'm just noticing that every time I come in this thread, there's somebody saying "I'm white, and I've a hard time of it," as if that somehow undermines what the white privilege argument is about. It doesn't.

The obsession with skin color is so tiresome and superficial.

For people who actually face those barriers, I doubt it feels tiresome or superficial. I certainly don't feel as if I can so casually dismiss their concerns.

 

[Danoff]

For people who actually face those barriers, I doubt it feels tiresome or superficial. I certainly don't feel as if I can so casually dismiss their concerns.

Instead of feeling isolated or victimized, they should understand that they are unified with the rest of humanity in facing some level of adversity that is not of their own doing. They should also recognize that any particular skin color is by far not the most onerous inherited disadvantage one can have.

 

[Turbo]

White privilege exists in America and it's the job of white people, as non-oppressed privileged people, to see outside of our privilege and realize that we have it better then minorities do. Being a poor, gay, disabled, or immigrant white person doesn't excuse you from white privilege. There are simply too many issues that POCs face in America on the regular that whites do not on the daily. I don't get why it's so hard for so many of y'all to grasp that.

Also, that's not some liberal viewpoint, or an opinion at all for that matter. It's plain facts.

 

[Northstar]

White privilege exists in America and it's the job of white people, as non-oppressed privileged people, to see outside of our privilege and realize that we have it better then minorities do.

Do we really? I kind of feel like you've completely ignored everything posted since your last post.

If so, I would highly recommend @Imari's post at the top of the page.

Don't do this. White people may not have exactly the same hardships that you have, but that doesn't mean that some of us can't relate. Some of us have also faced systemic adversity. Some of us have also lived in cultures where whites are a minority.

I don't like the name "white privilege" as a descriptor, though I don't disagree that the systemic societal biases that it describes exist. But let's not pretend that just because someone is white they're incapable of comprehending what the experience might be like for someone who is non-white. That's just as bad.



There is a bit. It's in how it's chosen to be presented as "white privilege" rather than "non-white disadvantages". Whenever a problem is presented, the immediate implication is usually "how can we fix this?". And usually the easiest fix is just to remove the problem altogether.

But actually, we don't really want to remove white privilege. We want to bring everyone up to that standard. The problem is that non-whites are disadvantaged. That whites are not disadvantaged is not a problem in and of itself. It's placing the burden of blame on people who had no more choice in the matter than non-whites.

I don't like the term "white privilege" because it strongly implies that one should remove privilege from whites. But we shouldn't. We should extend the "privileges" that whites experience, which are mostly just basic parts of a well-ordered society, and make sure that they apply to everyone. It shouldn't be about creating equality by dragging those at the top down, it should be about elevating those at the bottom so that they get a fair shake too.

While "white privilege" started as an academic term, I get the feeling that it's become so popular in large part because it's a way for non-whites to feel like they're decrying the fat cat elitist whites with their easy lives. But actually, it alienates a decent proportion of whites who haven't really had that experience at all. The lower half of the white population probably has had many of the same experiences as non-whites, albeit on average to a lesser extent or quantity. But this labelling of anyone who is white as automatically part of this privileged super-class without taking into account all the other things that go into the western social experience is just horrendously dismissive.

 

[Turbo]

I didn't ignore anything, @Northstar. I didn't feel like investing time in responding back to everyone's post about white privilege since there were way more of them then I would've imagined.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I didn't ignore anything, @Northstar. I didn't feel like investing time in responding back to everyone's post about white privilege since there were way more of them then I would've imagined.

And you would like us to invest time responding to you? It's awfully hard to get the worms back in the can.

 

[Danoff]

White privilege exists in America and it's the job of white people, as non-oppressed privileged people, to see outside of our privilege and realize that we have it better then minorities do. Being a poor, gay, disabled, or immigrant white person doesn't excuse you from white privilege. There are simply too many issues that POCs face in America on the regular that whites do not on the daily. I don't get why it's so hard for so many of y'all to grasp that.

Also, that's not some liberal viewpoint, or an opinion at all for that matter. It's plain facts.

Lemme try re-wording your post so that you can understand why it's misguided.

Sight privilege exists in America and it's the job of Seeing people, as non-disabled privileged people, to see outside of our privilege and realize that we have it better then blind people do. Being a poor, gay, a minority, or immigrant Seeing person doesn't excuse you from Sight privilege. There are simply too many issues that blind people face in America on the regular that seeing people do not on the daily. I don't get why it's so hard for so many of y'all to grasp that.

Also, that's not some liberal viewpoint, or an opinion at all for that matter. It's plain facts.

Need I go on? You're picking one small factor that might result in someone having a disadvantage and elevating it over countless other issues. Don't like the blind people example? I could pick one that's pure bias, like being ugly, or having a birth defect or deformity.

 

[Turbo]

Just gonna put it out there... it's beyond mind-boggling that other whites are denying white privilege's existence by saying "but whites get called rednecks" or "whites can live in the ghetto too", yet innocent Hispanic children are being locked in cages and innocent African Americans are being shot by cops left and right. There are 600,000 undocumented white immigrants currently in the USA but they are not looked at as criminals or a danger to society and will never be placed in a detention facility against their will. Our society is so shallow that we blindly see African Americans as criminals, causing cops to be paranoid they're up to no good and shoot them for walking down the street. Things like this is why I'm no longer conservative and now identify as independent. Seriously, have a good look at yourselves.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Just gonna put it out there... it's beyond mind-boggling that other whites are denying white privilege's existence by saying "but whites get called rednecks" or "whites can live in the ghetto too", yet innocent Hispanic children are being locked in cages and innocent African Americans are being shot by cops left and right. There are 600,000 undocumented white immigrants currently in the USA but they are not looked at as criminals or a danger to society and will never be placed in a detention facility against their will. Our society is so shallow that we blindly see African Americans as criminals, causing cops to be paranoid they're up to no good and shoot them for walking down the street. Things like this is why I'm no longer conservative and now identify as independent. Seriously, have a good look at yourselves.

I really want to get some of that Asian privilege and that 30% raise that comes with it. I can always use another 30%. I believe if you look at the stats you'll find that African Americans are not over represented in police shootings in relation to their levels of involvement in violent crime. You'll also find that more whites are killed by cops than blacks although as a percentage of population the number is much higher for blacks but so is their involvement in violent crime. About 90% of African Americans are killed by other African Americans. According to the Atlantic, 19 unarmed black males were killed by police in 2017. Doesn't mean they weren't attacking the police in some way just that they weren't brandishing a weapon. This means you are several hundred times more likely to be killed as an African American by another African American vs. a police officer.

 

[baldgye]

I really want to get some of that Asian privilege and that 30% raise that comes with it. I can always use another 30%. I believe if you look at the stats you'll find that African Americans are not over represented in police shootings in relation to their levels of involvement in violent crime. You'll also find that more whites are killed by cops than blacks although as a percentage of population the number is much higher for blacks but so is their involvement in violent crime. About 90% of African Americans are killed by other African Americans. According to the Atlantic, 19 unarmed black males were killed by police in 2017. Doesn't mean they weren't attacking the police in some way just that they weren't brandishing a weapon. This means you are several hundred times more likely to be killed as an African American by another African American vs. a police officer.

Wonder why that might be...

 

[Rallywagon]

Sounds to me like some people are conflating institutional racism with white privilege. The former I agree is an issue to fix, the latter is a BS, flawed notion that only serves to continue discord and division amongst the general population.

 

[Imari]

White privilege exists in America and it's the job of white people, as non-oppressed privileged people, to see outside of our privilege and realize that we have it better then minorities do. Being a poor, gay, disabled, or immigrant white person doesn't excuse you from white privilege. There are simply too many issues that POCs face in America on the regular that whites do not on the daily. I don't get why it's so hard for so many of y'all to grasp that.

Also, that's not some liberal viewpoint, or an opinion at all for that matter. It's plain facts.

Great. And then where does this mindset go from there? Is it enough to just feel guilty as a white person that you get it easier in some ways, or is there some actual point to this idea of belittling the experiences of an entire race?

I didn't ignore anything, @Northstar. I didn't feel like investing time in responding back to everyone's post about white privilege since there were way more of them then I would've imagined.

In a thread titled "White Privilege"? No way!

 

[PocketZeven]

I really want to get some of that Asian privilege and that 30% raise that comes with it. I can always use another 30%. I believe if you look at the stats you'll find that African Americans are not over represented in police shootings in relation to their levels of involvement in violent crime. You'll also find that more whites are killed by cops than blacks although as a percentage of population the number is much higher for blacks but so is their involvement in violent crime. About 90% of African Americans are killed by other African Americans. According to the Atlantic, 19 unarmed black males were killed by police in 2017. Doesn't mean they weren't attacking the police in some way just that they weren't brandishing a weapon. This means you are several hundred times more likely to be killed as an African American by another African American vs. a police officer.

Sorry sir. You are not reading correctly. Being asian does not mean you get 30% extra by having the same work ethic as a white/black/brown collegue. They are getting that extra income because they need to work at least 30% harder to get that 30%. Asians from china, korea, Japan are famous for their high work ethic. That is an important reason why subsequently they earn more, but not in all cases!! Please do your research! What you referring to is perhaps the stereotype that asian work hard and are good in math. Does that mean they automatically get 30% more? No they still need to work hard and be good in math to receive it.

White privilege refers to the fact when an someone from a non-dominant race does the same work with the same work ethic they are highly likely to earn less or for example a black person is refused the purchase of a house in favour for a white person etc. You are using a fictional "asian privilege" for the reason to disprove white privilege. I respect your opinion, but I am going to remove myself out of this conversation.

 

[Rallywagon]

Sorry sir. You are not reading correctly. Being asian does not mean you get 30% extra by having the same work ethic as a white/black/brown collegue. They are getting that extra income because they need to work at least 30% harder to get that 30%. Asians from china, korea, Japan are famous for their high work ethic. That is an important reason why subsequently they earn more, but not in all cases!! Please do your research! What you referring to is perhaps the stereotype that asian work hard and are good in math. Does that mean they automatically get 30% more? No they still need to work hard and be good in math to receive it.

White privilege refers to the fact when an someone from a non-dominant race does the same work with the same work ethic they are highly likely to earn less or for example a black person is refused the purchase of a house in favour for a white person etc. You are using a fictional "asian privilege" for the reason to disprove white privilege. I respect your opinion, but I am going to remove myself out of this conversation.

and you are using systemic racism to try and prove white privilege. Buying a house isnt a privilege, its something anyone who can afford it should be able to do. This is why many of use are crying foul with this term. You arent talking about privileges, you are talking about normal things that everyone should have the ability to do. white people dont need to lose this ability, which saying "white privilege" implies. its the bar everyone should be at. "white privilege" sets up a "whites verse everyone else" sort of mentality. It makes it out that white people are wrong for being able to do things everyone should be able to, rather than focusing on the actual cause, that being institutionalized racism. I dont think you will find very many people that would argue against that notion. But you will be, and should be, hard pressed when you try to place blame on someone because of their race. when you start saying "you're white, you dont understand, you have no idea, you cant even get it." That is both equally racist, and dismissive to someones life experiences. I used my example of being poor. I could just as easily bring up my experiences being pulled over and searched repeatedly between 18 and 24 simply for my looks (cops dont like those long haired hippy types either.) or being denied jobs for the same, or a slew of racists and prejudice crap I dealt with in El Paso (where whites are a minority) and Texarkana (where being a "damn Yankee" was wrong) .
Blaming an entire race. Shaming an entire race, dismissing individual experiences, its a scape goat, its divisive, its ignorant. Fix the cause, fix the institutions, dont hate on an entire race for it though. I mean, that is pretty much the definition of racism, right?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Sorry sir. You are not reading correctly. Being asian does not mean you get 30% extra by having the same work ethic as a white/black/brown collegue. They are getting that extra income because they need to work at least 30% harder to get that 30%. Asians from china, korea, Japan are famous for their high work ethic. That is an important reason why subsequently they earn more, but not in all cases!! Please do your research! What you referring to is perhaps the stereotype that asian work hard and are good in math. Does that mean they automatically get 30% more? No they still need to work hard and be good in math to receive it.

But, from a logical standpoint, doesn't that mean that, even though you have different colour skin and we (the Americans) have mocked, ridiculed and made fun of you in the recent past, you can still make it in America if you just work hard? Given they are, on average, 30% above white Americans in income, doesn't it tell you that skin colour and racial animosity isn't necessarily the major determining factor in your financial success?

White privilege refers to the fact when an someone from a non-dominant race does the same work with the same work ethic they are highly likely to earn less or for example a black person is refused the purchase of a house in favour for a white person etc. You are using a fictional "asian privilege" for the reason to disprove white privilege. I respect your opinion, but I am going to remove myself out of this conversation.

I use Asian privilege for the reasons I stated above and I agree it's fictional. Success achieved through hard work and education isn't privilege. You can look different and still be successful if you work hard, essentially, the American dream. They don't care what you look like in the grand scheme of things, just what you do, how hard you work or what brilliant ideas you can come up with. So it tells me that white privilege can't be a generic thing, as in, I'm white and therefore will be more successful than everyone else because I control everything otherwise we'd be trouncing the Asian Americans too and we aren't.

Have you ever looked at education levels among the various ethnicities as a starting point to determining outcomes? More educated = more income?