White Privilege

[Scaff]

White privilege does not apply to everyone whom is white although it does exist in some cases and locations.

I agree (see below), but in majority white areas it does. I'm white, straight, male and I'm well aware that its worked to my advantage throughout most of my life.

There is Asian privilege in Asian nations and black privilege in many North African states.

Apart from North Africa not being black I would agree with your general point.

Privilege as is pertaining to individual races is entirely situational and environmental.

Indeed it is, however some oddities have and do exist. south African being one that I have experience with. white privilege was embedded into the rule of law in the past and to a degree still exists in the country, however (now that the rule of law no longer enforces that) the balance is shifting in some (but not all) areas.

It's when people say white privilege pervades every caveat of the world when it becomes a personal hypothesis and is in no way ever true.

I'm not aware of anyone saying that?

Are you sure your not mistaking people taking generally about white, western nations as if they were talking about the entire world?

 

[Mr Tree]

Is there really inequality in opportunity?
We have 25 drivers. 2 are women. They make the exact same pay as us men.
I've watched probably 10 women come in for driver training, which is a week.
A few days later I see them in the sorting facility cause they couldn't do it.
Situations like this never seem to be mentioned.
I see no male privilege and to answer @TexRex question in another thread.
25 drivers: 3 white, 2 hispanic and 20 black.
In this job there is no white privilege.

I don't think many people here believe every man experiences priveledge to an extend you've (or I) have been advantaged to a point where men can't fail no more.
But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

What you describe can have something to do with socialisation and from there a.whole new debate opens up if our current society is a good one considering socialisation of groups. Both good and bad for all groups.

I've encountered male priveledge once in my life and so did my fellow clasmates many of whome don't even know. I had a teacher in a technical courde that believed woman.should not be in STEM in any way or form. He has said that to multiple girls following the course including one of my friends and the daughter of one of my collegues. The failure rate of woman in his course is higher then men and higher then other STEM cpurses those woman did.

He never got fired due to something similar as a tenyear. So maybe it's not directly priveledge but more so the other ones are unfairely disadvantaged in very specific circumstances.

I can't deny something isn't wrong there.

On the other hand I'm a bit more sensetive to emotions and as a male I should be though which can be very hard for me from time to time so there are male disadvantages to.

I personally believe we should stop stereotyping gender and race as a community. As it would open doors for all parties that are currently closed.

 

[Dotini]

Is that what you'd aim for? Equality of outcome?

I wouldn't personally. I much prefer equality of oppertunity. And I agree that that still doesn't exist

This is the best of all questions. Bravo to Mr Tree.

My answer is that its a presently unresolvable conflict between genetics, memetics and culture.

 

[Mr Tree]

This is the best of all questions. Bravo to Mr Tree.

My answer is that its a presently unresolvable conflict between genetics, memetics and culture.

I can agree I think. Out of curiosity does the presently unresolvable part mean we should not try in certain ways? Or is that more an observation?

I think it' something thats not able to be resolved in a few months maybe even years. But being aware of the issues (on all sides) helps to counter the stereotypical socialisation process. I haven't searched for any studies but I don't think our behavior/character/intrests is to much connected with our biology of being male/female. I think that's largely a part of socialisation. I myself find myseld to be interested in science but just as much in sociology and philosophy, used to play with dolls with my nieces rather then with sticks and my nephews. I felt more at ease in a less 'agressive' environment. I did love to climb trees. But I'm clearly not your stereotypical male. I've never been laughed at or no one in my family not even mt nephews lauged with it. I wasn't molded to be thougher or more interested in boy stuff. I was interestzd in everything. I'm a straight white male though so I'm very much not a stereotype in that regard either. This leads me to believe stereotypes are self furfilling prophecies when their environment 'forces' them upon us but woman are not automaticly interested in thing due to being woman not even over a general line. This is off course kot scientific and just my personal experience so purely based on anecdotal evidence. I have a stephsister who is the opposite of me

 

[Biggles]

"Privilege" exists in all kinds of ways. White privilege is just one example & may be mixed with other kinds of privilege or disadvantage - class & wealth are the two most obvious ones. An child born to rich, educated black parents is going to be privileged in ways that a child born to poor, uneducated white parents is not.

In most of the world gender, class, wealth, race, ethnicity, religion etc. still remain huge factors in determining life outcomes. Even in developed countries they remain significant factors, but there are many intersecting factors involved & race alone is no longer such a dominating factor. My own observation is that children are massively influenced by the circumstances they grow up in.

 

[Danoff]

"Privilege" exists in all kinds of ways. White privilege is just one example & may be mixed with other kinds of privilege or disadvantage - class & wealth are the two most obvious ones. An child born to rich, educated black parents is going to be privileged in ways that a child born to poor, uneducated white parents is not.

In most of the world gender, class, wealth, race, ethnicity, religion etc. still remain huge factors in determining life outcomes. Even in developed countries they remain significant factors, but there are many intersecting factors involved & race alone is no longer such a dominating factor. My own observation is that children are massively influenced by the circumstances they grow up in.

The most basic unearned privilege is having loving parents that care about your well being, and is probably one of the biggest overall influencing factors in the outcome. Of course privilege isn't a bad thing.

 

[Biggles]

The most basic unearned privilege is having loving parents that care about your well being, and is probably one of the biggest overall influencing factors in the outcome. Of course privilege isn't a bad thing.

True ... & happiness in life is an elusive thing, not necessarily tied to financial wealth or "success".

 

[Danoff]

True ... & happiness in life is an elusive thing, not necessarily tied to financial wealth or "success".

We get into this a fair amount in a number of different threads. None of us can control the circumstances of our birth. Our genetics, our parents' financial diligence, whether we have parents, whether those parents abuse us or love us, what we're fed, where we go to school (early in life). Those circumstances (including genetics) have entirely to do with the choices of the parents (and being lucky they weren't killed in a car crash or something). There is, of course, no way to eliminate this kind of privilege, nor should that be a goal. Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone had an ideal childhood, but it isn't attainable (almost by definition). Perfect is the enemy of good in this case.

Edit:

There can also be privilege in having siblings that have certain genetics (or at all), or financial diligence, or early education or nutrition. Same goes for friends (which can be/are arranged by parents at young ages).

The only way to eliminate this privilege is to actually dissolve family and friend structures.

 

[Imari]

The only way to eliminate this privilege is to actually dissolve family and friend structures.

Onward, to the Brave New World!

 

[stonesfan129]

Being a white male has never worked to my 'advantage.' I've had to work for everything I have. So did my relatives who all came here as immigrants in the early 1900s. In fact, many employers would not hire them because they were Italians and were Catholic. My grandpa got made fun of because he couldn't speak English when he came here. My uncle Bill was abandoned by his parents and lived very poor, but he made something out of himself through hard work. Everything I have is because someone in my family worked to put their family in a better place and encouraged me to do so also. How is that privilege? Asians also came to the United States and faced massive amounts of bigotry but many of them seem to be doing well without special advantages. I think it's just easier to call some people lazy and a lot of them use words like "racism" or "sexism" or whatever "ism" as an excuse. "White privilege" is just another way to take something away from someone who earned it and give it to people who don't deserve it.

 

[th3o]

"White privilege" is just another way to take something away from someone who earned it and give it to people who don't deserve it.

This is absolutely not the case. It is just a label to raise awareness that the color of your skin might (not necessarily always has to) matter depending on what is regarded as normal or the majority in the respective area. It's also not about "taking away", it's about creating an atmosphere where what a white person can get through hard work also a person of color can get as well through hard work instead of being even denied certain possibilities (not by law, but just by everyday behavior of other citizens). That's all it says. No one wants to "take" something from you mate. It's about creating a naturalness of every day life also for people of color in a predominantly white country.
I do however acknowledge that, as it happens with everything that has a true core and is useful to a certain degree but also kinda new and challenging for traditional thoughts, "white privilege" (as well btw as "feminism" or other progressive labels) can be misused, exaggerated etc, basically only be used as a universal answer to everything or as a universal critique to everything etc. And that's of course wrong. But just because of these extremes, it does not mean that the theory behind "white privilege" has no meaning or importance whatsoever.

Edit: A bit off topic and over the top just to make the point clear: Issues and problems in our society are not and have never been 'obvious' unless there were names or words for it. Someone or a group of people had always to come together and articulate an issue to even make you grasp that it actually might be something worth looking into. Without the understanding of what for example "slavery" means, why would there ever have been a problem with white dudes using and abusing black folks? It was completely 'natural' because there were no words that put that reality in a certain perspective, so you then can say: Wait a second, what is this ****?
Not exactly the same, but a bit similar with the term "white privilege". Might sound like some hocus pocus, like "Huh? What's that supposed to mean" first, but letting it sink in and not letting you getting distracted by those false advocats of the white privilege theories, there is some truth to the term.

 

[stonesfan129]

This is absolutely not the case. It is just a label to raise awareness that the color of your skin might (not necessarily always has to) matter depending on what is regarded as normal or the majority in the respective area. It's also not about "taking away", it's about creating an atmosphere where what a white person can get through hard work also a person of color can get as well through hard work instead of being even denied certain possibilities (not by law, but just by everyday behavior of other citizens). That's all it says. No one wants to "take" something from you mate. It's about creating a naturalness of every day life also for people of color in a predominantly white country.
I do however acknowledge that, as it happens with everything that has a true core and is useful to a certain degree but also kinda new and challenging for traditional thoughts, "white privilege" (as well btw as "feminism" or other progressive labels) can be misused, exaggerated etc, basically only be used as a universal answer to everything or as a universal critique to everything etc. And that's of course wrong. But just because of these extremes, it does not mean that the theory behind "white privilege" has no meaning or importance whatsoever.

Of course it is. It's an excuse used to silence white people from talking about race-related issues by shaming them. It's racism itself. The color of my skin does not have any effect on my being successful. I have a home and a good job because I worked for both of them. A black man was just president for 8 years. The past two heads of the DOJ were black. Minorities (people who are not white or Asian) are favored on college admissions and government jobs. There is no glass ceiling anymore. Please tell me again how the color of your skin keeps you down. This whole "white privilege" thing along with other liberal ideas are more failed communist ideas that they want to force upon us. I have a feeling that these people will not be happy until the US is like South Africa where everything is confiscated from whites who earned it and given to people who did not.

 

[Scaff]

Please tell me again how the color of your skin keeps you down. This whole "white privilege" thing along with other liberal ideas are more failed communist ideas that they want to force upon us. I have a feeling that these people will not be happy until the US is like South Africa where everything is confiscated from whites who earned it and given to people who did not.

White privilege is a failed communist idea?

Everything is confiscated from the whites in South Africa?

FFS the level of stupid on this site is seriously starting to make me question if I even want to be a member.

Communism had its own race issues, quite serious ones, as such it being the cause of white privilege is absurd.

As for South Africa, I think someone has been reading a bit too much alt-right ********. I speak to South Africans on a weekly basis, worked directly with one until they moved back a few weeks ago. Being white in South Africa is still the safest option, and the white genocide claim doesn't stand up to analysis.

White privilege exists, it's not a commie plot, and to even get to that point is quite frankly inane.

 

[th3o]

Of course it is. It's an excuse used to silence white people from talking about race-related issues by shaming them. It's racism itself. The color of my skin does not have any effect on my being successful. I have a home and a good job because I worked for both of them. A black man was just president for 8 years. The past two heads of the DOJ were black. Minorities (people who are not white or Asian) are favored on college admissions and government jobs. There is no glass ceiling anymore. Please tell me again how the color of your skin keeps you down. This whole "white privilege" thing along with other liberal ideas are more failed communist ideas that they want to force upon us.

You are taking Obama, the first ever black president and a highly privileged stand-out to claim that it's already normality. Well, it's not. Stand-outs are not the standard. Just because, to make up an example, 1 of 20 black people get accepted into an ivy league university and the other 19 are white, does not mean you can point to that one black dude or girl and say "see, there you have that person you claim they get denied stuff".
I am white in Germany, so i am as natural in this country as it can possibly get, so i can't tell you how my skin color keeps me down. But i can tell you that i witnessed numerous examples of different treatment of people in the same situations where the only difference visible was their skin color, yet they have been treated differently.

I can give you one example: In the post office there was couple weeks ago a customer who was not able to speak german, he was white. So the post office clerk talked to him in english and explained stuff to him, took his time etc. All good. Couple days later i was back at that post office waiting for my turn. There was a black guy wanting to send a parcel and had difficulties with the forms as they were in german. He asked for help and that exact same clerk looked at him top to bottom before answering (black dude looked absolutely fine whatsoever, not drunk, not homeless etc) and said in loud german the explanation. The black dude obvsly did not get it and asked again in english. The clerk repeated the same stuff again in german and looked annoyed. So, there you have your everyday example.

Another example would be how me eating at a restaurant witnessed the waiter bringing me the food and telling me to enjoy my meal and if there is something else i'd like, i shall call for him. Next to me was a darker skin man, i assume from india, he ordered in perfect german. When the waiter brought him his food, he just put it down on the table and turned around. No nice words whatsoever like with me.

"white privilege" does not necessarily always mean that you get denied a job if you are black while the white guy gets it. it can be also found in smaller things. but those can add up and many small things in your everyday life adding up, they create your everyday reality. and this reality is somewhat different for a darker skin person here, that i can tell you.
now you can say: yeah well, germans are nazis. some are, i am sure of that. but so are some americans, some brits, some australians, some russians. it's all about what ethnic group is in the majority in a certain country or area.

 

[stonesfan129]

White privilege is a failed communist idea?

Everything is confiscated from the whites in South Africa?

FFS the level of stupid on this site is seriously starting to make me question if I even want to be a member.

Communism had its own race issues, quite serious ones, as such it being the cause of white privilege is absurd.

As for South Africa, I think someone has been reading a bit too much alt-right ********. I speak to South Africans on a weekly basis, worked directly with one until they moved back a few weeks ago. Being white in South Africa is still the safest option, and the white genocide claim doesn't stand up to analysis.

White privilege exists, it's not a commie plot, and to even get to that point is quite frankly inane.

White privilege does not exist and the idea of someone having to feel shame for being white is totally ridiculous and racist in and of itself.

And yes, property is being taken from white people in South Africa.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/eco...n/news-story/a8a81155995b1adc1c399d3576c4c0bc

But of course the media doesn't care because it doesn't fit their narrative that anyone who isn't white or Asian is downtrodden across the world.

You are taking Obama, the first ever black president and a highly privileged stand-out to claim that it's already normality. Well, it's not. Stand-outs are not the standard. Just because, to make up an example, 1 of 20 black people get accepted into an ivy league university and the other 19 are white, does not mean you can point to that one black dude or girl and say "see, there you have that person you claim they get denied stuff".
I am white in Germany, so i am as natural in this country as it can possibly get, so i can't tell you how my skin color keeps me down. But i can tell you that i witnessed numerous examples of different treatment of people in the same situations where the only difference visible was their skin color, yet they have been treated differently.

I can give you one example: In the post office there was couple weeks ago a customer who was not able to speak german, he was white. So the post office clerk talked to him in english and explained stuff to him, took his time etc. All good. Couple days later i was back at that post office waiting for my turn. There was a black guy wanting to send a parcel and had difficulties with the forms as they were in german. He asked for help and that exact same clerk looked at him top to bottom before answering (black dude looked absolutely fine whatsoever, not drunk, not homeless etc) and said in loud german the explanation. The black dude obvsly did not get it and asked again in english. The clerk repeated the same stuff again in german and looked annoyed. So, there you have your everyday example.

Another example would be how me eating at a restaurant witnessed the waiter bringing me the food and telling me to enjoy my meal and if there is something else i'd like, i shall call for him. Next to me was a darker skin man, i assume from india, he ordered in perfect german. When the waiter brought him his food, he just put it down on the table and turned around. No nice words whatsoever like with me.

"white privilege" does not necessarily always mean that you get denied a job if you are black while the white guy gets it. it can be also found in smaller things. but those can add up and many small things in your everyday life adding up, they create your everyday reality. and this reality is somewhat different for a darker skin person here, that i can tell you.
now you can say: yeah well, germans are nazis. some are, i am sure of that. but so are some americans, some brits, some australians, some russians. it's all about what ethnic group is in the majority in a certain country or area.

So a couple of isolated incidents that may have had nothing to do with race means there is white privilege? Besides, your stories sound suspiciously like they were pulled from someone's backside.

 

[th3o]

White privilege does not exist and the idea of someone having to feel shame for being white is totally ridiculous and racist in and of itself.

You are not even getting into the points we make mate, you are simply stating that it does not exist and that's it for you. But you ask of us to explain to you stuff and give examples. But you just don't acknowledge it whatsoever. What sort of culture of communication is this?

I was sure you'd say that about my examples, it fits in your logic. As soon as there might be evidence, it has to be just made up and lies.
Also they are "just" "isolated". What does that even mean? I can not be at 100 different places at the same time mate. Your strategy of communication and twisting stuff to make the other one inferior is too obvious.

 

[baldgye]

White privilege does not exist and the idea of someone having to feel shame for being white is totally ridiculous and racist in and of itself.

And yes, property is being taken from white people in South Africa.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/eco...n/news-story/a8a81155995b1adc1c399d3576c4c0bc

But of course the media doesn't care because it doesn't fit their narrative that anyone who isn't white or Asian is downtrodden across the world.

The bewildering disconnect you have with reality is impressive, if not depressing.

 

[stonesfan129]

You are not even getting into the points we make mate, you are simply stating that it does not exist and that's it for you. But you ask of us to explain to you stuff and give examples. But you just don't acknowledge it whatsoever. What sort of culture of communication is this?

In each one of your 'examples,' you are assuming a person got preferential treatment because of their skin color, without looking at anything else that could have affected it. That sure sounds scientific.

 

[th3o]

In each one of your 'examples,' you are assuming a person got preferential treatment because of their skin color, without looking at anything else that could have affected it. That sure sounds scientific.

You asked me for a simple example in a forum mate, i can't give you a dissertation. Don't invent new obstacles just because you are not pleased with what i report.

 

[stonesfan129]

You are not even getting into the points we make mate, you are simply stating that it does not exist and that's it for you. But you ask of us to explain to you stuff and give examples. But you just don't acknowledge it whatsoever. What sort of culture of communication is this?

I was sure you'd say that about my examples, it fits in your logic. As soon as there might be evidence, it has to be just made up and lies.
Also they are "just" "isolated". What does that even mean? I can not be at 100 different places at the same time mate. Your strategy of communication and twisting stuff to make the other one inferior is too obvious.

Telling white people they need to recognize their privilege is like telling all Germans they need to feel guilty for WWI and WWII.

 

[baldgye]

Telling white people they need to recognize their privilege is like telling all Germans they need to feel guilty for WWI and WWII.

And (to use your idiotic comparison) you telling people White Privilege doesn't exist is like saying WWI and WWII didn’t happen...

 

[stonesfan129]

And (to use your idiotic comparison) you telling people White Privilege doesn't exist is like saying WWI and WWII didn’t happen...

Just delete this comment, it makes you look stupid.

 

[th3o]

Telling white people they need to recognize their privilege is like telling all Germans they need to feel guilty for WWI and WWII.

Can you elaborate how this is "like" that? Where is the connection exactly?

 

[stonesfan129]

.

 

[th3o]

Alright, i think we got cryptic enough already. Have a nice day mate. Hope you learned something from what i explained above, even if you don't necessarily show it here. But who knows, maybe tomorrow, maybe next week, it might sink in a bit. Cheers

 

[Scaff]

White privilege does not exist and the idea of someone having to feel shame for being white is totally ridiculous and racist in and of itself.

That you think this is a demand for white people to feel shame for being white has far more to do with your own views on the world than anything else.

I'm white, I'm aware white privilege exists, I know I've benefited from it, yet manage to not feel shame for being white.

The main reason for that I quite likely because I don't go around being a dick about people who aren't white (and if you think being Asian gets people a pass you so wrong it's astounding) bring given the same treatment as me.

And yes, property is being taken from white people in South Africa.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/eco...n/news-story/a8a81155995b1adc1c399d3576c4c0bc

But of course the media doesn't care because it doesn't fit their narrative that anyone who isn't white or Asian is downtrodden across the world.

Everything, you clearly said everything.

Oh and if the media don't care, how the hell did you manage to use a media source. Seriously did that actually not register!

 

[Johnnypenso]

You are taking Obama, the first ever black president and a highly privileged stand-out to claim that it's already normality. Well, it's not. Stand-outs are not the standard. Just because, to make up an example, 1 of 20 black people get accepted into an ivy league university and the other 19 are white, does not mean you can point to that one black dude or girl and say "see, there you have that person you claim they get denied stuff".
I am white in Germany, so i am as natural in this country as it can possibly get, so i can't tell you how my skin color keeps me down. But i can tell you that i witnessed numerous examples of different treatment of people in the same situations where the only difference visible was their skin color, yet they have been treated differently.

I'd like a link to this data on Ivy League admissions. I'd also like you to reword it since it appears as if you're saying 1/20 people accepted into Ivy League schools are black and 19/20 are white. It's poorly worded so I'm not entirely sure that's what you're saying but, if that's what you're saying, on it's face I can tell this is blatantly false so I'd like to see where the data is to support it. Also curious as to why not one single member called this obviously blatantly false statement into question.

 

[yas]

Sooo what happens to white privilege in Japan or Thailand, or even China? Is there white privilege there? What do you think happens with your examples if they happen in Japan toward a white man, would that be some other privilege, or there cannot be other like the way one cannot be racist toward caucasians?
Anyway unlike the US that is based on variations of immigrants thus forming a society consisting of various races, there are actually countries in the world that are formed by a single race or ethnicity. And due to historical or cultural reasons they can be suspicios to foreigners especially if they are of different color.

 

[Scaff]

Sooo what happens to white privilege in Japan or Thailand, or even China? Is there white privilege there? What do you think happens with your examples if they happen in Japan toward a white man, would that be some other privilege, or there cannot be other like the way one cannot be racist toward caucasians.
Anyway unlike the US that is based on variations of immigrants thus forming a society consisting of various races, there are actually countries in the world that are formed by a single race or ethnicity. And due to historical or cultural reasons they can be suspicios to foreigners especially if they are of different color.

It becomes another form of privilege, it's really not difficult.

 

[Exorcet]

Of course it is. It's an excuse used to silence white people from talking about race-related issues by shaming them. It's racism itself. The color of my skin does not have any effect on my being successful.

Well we can agree that racism exists right? You said it yourself. Certainly it's going to applied against some non whites as well?

I don't tend to use the terms White/Male/etc Privilege in part because I think we have better terms for the issues described, but language is fluid. Don't focus on a specific term and ignore everything else said to you. Maybe someone is giving a phrase a different meaning than the one you use.