Why are the RUF Porsches so aweful?

[twitcher]

1. RUFs are not Porsches. The German government considers them as two seperate manufacturers.

2. The RGT is without question one of the most competative cars at 500pp, specifically at the 'Ring. It's not as easy to drive as say an NSX, but it is a very quick car in the right hands.

3. If we're talking specically about the BTR and the Yellowbird, take a few things into account. While the general myth about Porsches is that they are suppurb handling cars, the fact is that many of the Porsches from the 80s were demons, specifically the turbo models. They were notorious for being crashed by inexperienced drivers. Many rich doctors wrecked a lot of nice Porsches because they didn't know how to drive them. Since that time, Porsche have dedicated an astronomical amount of R&D into getting their cars to behave.

The main reason for the handling woes is directly due to the engine placement. So with that in mind, add the fact that RUF boosted the performance characteristics of the engines to much higher levels than Porsche ever, and you have a recipe for a very difficult car to drive. Doesn't mean it can't be fast, but certainly not in the hands of a ham-fisted civilian like you or I.

 

[MisterWaffles]

And it is a Porsche. If it looks and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

May you post a picture? (not pulled from the internet)

 

[light driver]

Funny so important many of You people think it is to distinguish the RUF from the Porsche... - The little detail about the "unstamped and unnumbered" Porsche bodies delivered to RUF... This is of no technical relevance at all, and has nothing with OPs question to do... The fact that Porsche and RUF has a buisness deal is only of political/economical interest, and this was how the two companies figured they would maximase their profits. By staying independant.

However; I`m damn sure that the RUFS are closer to the Porsche 911s than the Golf GTI is to the GOLF non-GTI; or in the least, as close as... RUF has some bored cylinders, some turbo, some other suspension components and larger brake discs and calipers, and wider wheels and a little carbon here and there I guess...

The AMG isn`t a Mercedes? The Alpina isn`t a BMW? - OK if that is the that case the RUF is not a Porsche...U know what I mean... But "completely their own brand; independent from Porsche" they are NOT... The "independency" has something to do with money and politics; not technical issues...

By the way; You can have Your Porsche 911 "RUF`ed" I`ve heard...

OPs question about the GranTurismo RUF handling.... Well IRL tarmac has incredible traction to it (that`s why they build roads from it), especially on a hot, sunny high noon, like we most encounter in GT6. - BUT in GT6 tarmac is veeeeery slippery...(very slippery hai-hai) (Japanese) This slipperyness is not so good for the RUF and other cars...But that`s the small thing...

IRL the RUF Yellowbird was a fantastic car, a refined Porsche 911, tuned and build with stronger, more roadholding suspension components than the 911.

Mr Kaz has heard some false 911 rumours during the last 50 years, and those rumours has been frequenting bars for as many years, so today people think that the 911/Yellowbird was "horrible, impossible and dangerous cars that could only be driven by a completely expert" - And "a 911 has the same handling characteristics as hammer thrown with the shaft front"

- And mr Kaz of GranTurismo thought "wauw let`s make this RUF for the game, and lets make it even more dangerous than it was IRL, hai-hai" (But the 911 (and the later, refined Yellowbird) were never dangerous, insane cars. The Porsche 911 was in fact the "best car of the 20th century" or something...

So the final answer to mr OPs question will be "because mr Kaz wants these cars to be "true" to their history" and thereby contributing to the false, barstool reinforced myth of the 911/RUF

By the way... I don`t believe there is one single car of the around 1200 cars in the game that actually handles anywhere near their IRL counterparts. After all it`s just a joystick operated computer game, and the emphasiz is on the gimmicks and the looks.... Just my 5 p

I like my Yellowbird and my BTR. What I do is that I keep them close to their original pp, this is 490-500pp for the BTR, and around 525pp for the Ybird...And a lot of tuning here and there. With SS tyres they`re almost darlings, but fast theyre not...(It seems to me that mr Kaz got allmost everytnig regarding cars wrong???)

Funny: The Yellowbird was the fastest production car of it`s day - in GT6 it is a false weapon, slow within it`s pp range...Other things....Nah....Just ignore me...Except...Somebody is doubting if OP really has a 911 IRL??? Well it`s not nice to think other people are lying, so unless You KNOW he is a liar, You should keep quiet. IF he tells us the truth, and You`re questioning it, it says more about You... I always believe peoples`claims, unless they are completely far out....

 

[Grandea GTR]

Funny so important many of You people think it is to distinguish the RUF from the Porsche... - The little detail about the "unstamped and unnumbered" Porsche bodies delivered to RUF... This is of no technical relevance at all, and has nothing with OPs question to do... The fact that Porsche and RUF has a buisness deal is only of political/economical interest, and this was how the two companies figured they would maximase their profits. By staying independant.

However; I`m damn sure that the RUFS are closer to the Porsche 911s than the Golf GTI is to the GOLF non-GTI; or in the least, as close as... RUF has some bored cylinders, some turbo, some other suspension components and larger brake discs and calipers, and wider wheels and a little carbon here and there I guess...

The AMG isn`t a Mercedes? The Alpina isn`t a BMW? - OK if that is the that case the RUF is not a Porsche...U know what I mean... But "completely their own brand; independent from Porsche" they are NOT... The "independency" has something to do with money and politics; not technical issues...

By the way; You can have Your Porsche 911 "RUF`ed" I`ve heard...

OPs question about the GranTurismo RUF handling.... Well IRL tarmac has incredible traction to it (that`s why they build roads from it), especially on a hot, sunny high noon, like we most encounter in GT6. - BUT in GT6 tarmac is veeeeery slippery...(very slippery hai-hai) (Japanese) This slipperyness is not so good for the RUF and other cars...But that`s the small thing...

IRL the RUF Yellowbird was a fantastic car, a refined Porsche 911, tuned and build with stronger, more roadholding suspension components than the 911.

Mr Kaz has heard some false 911 rumours during the last 50 years, and those rumours has been frequenting bars for as many years, so today people think that the 911/Yellowbird was "horrible, impossible and dangerous cars that could only be driven by a completely expert" - And "a 911 has the same handling characteristics as hammer thrown with the shaft front"

- And mr Kaz of GranTurismo thought "wauw let`s make this RUF for the game, and lets make it even more dangerous than it was IRL, hai-hai" (But the 911 (and the later, refined Yellowbird) were never dangerous, insane cars. The Porsche 911 was in fact the "best car of the 20th century" or something...

So the final answer to mr OPs question will be "because mr Kaz wants these cars to be "true" to their history" and thereby contributing to the false, barstool reinforced myth of the 911/RUF

By the way... I don`t believe there is one single car of the around 1200 cars in the game that actually handles anywhere near their IRL counterparts. After all it`s just a joystick operated computer game, and the emphasiz is on the gimmicks and the looks.... Just my 5 p

I like my Yellowbird and my BTR. What I do is that I keep them close to their original pp, this is 490-500pp for the BTR, and around 525pp for the Ybird...And a lot of tuning here and there. With SS tyres they`re almost darlings, but fast theyre not...(It seems to me that mr Kaz got allmost everytnig regarding cars wrong???)

Funny: The Yellowbird was the fastest production car of it`s day - in GT6 it is a false weapon, slow within it`s pp range...Other things....Nah....Just ignore me...Except...Somebody is doubting if OP really has a 911 IRL??? Well it`s not nice to think other people are lying, so unless You KNOW he is a liar, You should keep quiet. IF he tells us the truth, and You`re questioning it, it says more about You... I always believe peoples`claims, unless they are completely far out....

Erm... What?

RUFs are distinctive enough to consider themselves a separate manufacturer. Their cars may use the same body style as the 911 Boxster, but everything else is completely different.

Alpina is like RUF. They make their own models through heavy manipulation of the main car (Alpina B6 = E30 M3 as a donor car). However, Alpina's ties with BMW is pretty tight, so they closely work together (BMW 7-Series and Alpina B7).

AMG is different namely because it is (I guess?) a performance division of their respective company - MB. They take the main car (take a MB C-Class) and upgrade or revamp the performance capabilities, whether it be a larger engine or enhanced dynamics in body and handling (C63 AMG).

The rest of what you said: No comment there.

 

[RodolphoPNeto]

"I can't drive it, so it sucks, period"

... that's like saying "i don't like pizza, so it's awful", as if your incompetence to drive it (or your taste for something) is a measure of standard.

I can't reason with people like this, sorry.

 

[twitcher]

Funny so important many of You people think it is to distinguish the RUF from the Porsche... - The little detail about the "unstamped and unnumbered" Porsche bodies delivered to RUF... This is of no technical relevance at all, and has nothing with OPs question to do... The fact that Porsche and RUF has a buisness deal is only of political/economical interest, and this was how the two companies figured they would maximase their profits. By staying independant.

However; I`m damn sure that the RUFS are closer to the Porsche 911s than the Golf GTI is to the GOLF non-GTI; or in the least, as close as... RUF has some bored cylinders, some turbo, some other suspension components and larger brake discs and calipers, and wider wheels and a little carbon here and there I guess...

The AMG isn`t a Mercedes? The Alpina isn`t a BMW? - OK if that is the that case the RUF is not a Porsche...U know what I mean... But "completely their own brand; independent from Porsche" they are NOT... The "independency" has something to do with money and politics; not technical issues...

By the way; You can have Your Porsche 911 "RUF`ed" I`ve heard...

OPs question about the GranTurismo RUF handling.... Well IRL tarmac has incredible traction to it (that`s why they build roads from it), especially on a hot, sunny high noon, like we most encounter in GT6. - BUT in GT6 tarmac is veeeeery slippery...(very slippery hai-hai) (Japanese) This slipperyness is not so good for the RUF and other cars...But that`s the small thing...

IRL the RUF Yellowbird was a fantastic car, a refined Porsche 911, tuned and build with stronger, more roadholding suspension components than the 911.

Mr Kaz has heard some false 911 rumours during the last 50 years, and those rumours has been frequenting bars for as many years, so today people think that the 911/Yellowbird was "horrible, impossible and dangerous cars that could only be driven by a completely expert" - And "a 911 has the same handling characteristics as hammer thrown with the shaft front"

- And mr Kaz of GranTurismo thought "wauw let`s make this RUF for the game, and lets make it even more dangerous than it was IRL, hai-hai" (But the 911 (and the later, refined Yellowbird) were never dangerous, insane cars. The Porsche 911 was in fact the "best car of the 20th century" or something...

So the final answer to mr OPs question will be "because mr Kaz wants these cars to be "true" to their history" and thereby contributing to the false, barstool reinforced myth of the 911/RUF

By the way... I don`t believe there is one single car of the around 1200 cars in the game that actually handles anywhere near their IRL counterparts. After all it`s just a joystick operated computer game, and the emphasiz is on the gimmicks and the looks.... Just my 5 p

I like my Yellowbird and my BTR. What I do is that I keep them close to their original pp, this is 490-500pp for the BTR, and around 525pp for the Ybird...And a lot of tuning here and there. With SS tyres they`re almost darlings, but fast theyre not...(It seems to me that mr Kaz got allmost everytnig regarding cars wrong???)

Funny: The Yellowbird was the fastest production car of it`s day - in GT6 it is a false weapon, slow within it`s pp range...Other things....Nah....Just ignore me...Except...Somebody is doubting if OP really has a 911 IRL??? Well it`s not nice to think other people are lying, so unless You KNOW he is a liar, You should keep quiet. IF he tells us the truth, and You`re questioning it, it says more about You... I always believe peoples`claims, unless they are completely far out....

Sorry but you are the first person I have ever heard make this claim that 80's 911 were "fantastic handling cars". I've never driven one, but the majority of accounts I've heard is that they were scary as hell.

Again, they were extremely capable cars in the right hands, but I'm going to maintain my stance that they are difficult to drive for the average person, until you can show me multiple accounts of acredited people backing up your statement.

Edit: to clarify, when I say "difficult to drive", I'm referring to driving at the absolute limit, not about going to pick up some milk.

 

[Grandea GTR]

Sorry but you are the first person I have ever heard make this claim that 80's 911 were "fantastic handling cars". I've never driven one, but the majority of accounts I've heard is that they were scary as hell.

Old 911s are difficult as hell to drive, so I have heard from many.

 

[twitcher]

Ok maybe I'm willing to meet at a middle ground.

https://www.classicdriver.com/en/article/cars/driving-tips-vic-elford-how-seduce-classic-911

He's referring to even older 911s, but the basic principles remain.

In the article, he clearly states, twice, that the "average driver" and the "inexperienced driver" are prone to making mistakes, because the car requires a special touch.

He then goes on to say that after gaining experience in the car, he became comfortable with its characteristics. But remember, this is a guy who was racing them professionally, and is considered one of the greatest Porsche drivers of all time. The fact that he was a professional driver alone should be an indication that he has knowledge and understanding of car control that the average person does not (otherwise, we'd all be racing pros...fact is, we're not, because we can't do what select individuals like him can)

Based on that, I don't feel I'm wrong In saying that they are difficult to drive for the average person, but brilliant machines in capable hands.



Now, in regards to going at the OP sideways...based on the thread title and his/her first post, it's tough not to assume that this guy is average at best...

 

[Famine]

Funny so important many of You people think it is to distinguish the RUF from the Porsche... - The little detail about the "unstamped and unnumbered" Porsche bodies delivered to RUF... This is of no technical relevance at all, and has nothing with OPs question to do... The fact that Porsche and RUF has a buisness deal is only of political/economical interest, and this was how the two companies figured they would maximase their profits. By staying independant.

Except that it makes Ruf models Rufs and not Porsches.

However; I`m damn sure that the RUFS are closer to the Porsche 911s than the Golf GTI is to the GOLF non-GTI; or in the least, as close as...

Then you'd be wrong.

Since you like analogies, a Ruf is typically slightly more similar to a 911 than a Jaguar XK is to an Aston Martin DB7, but slightly less similar to a 911 than a Renault Kadjar is to a Nissan Qashqai.

RUF has some bored cylinders, some turbo, some other suspension components and larger brake discs and calipers, and wider wheels and a little carbon here and there I guess...

Literally the only shared components are the shell and sometimes the windows.

The AMG isn`t a Mercedes?

AMG is owned by Mercedes and, until 2014, the cars were all registered as Mercedes-Benz. They are now registered as Mercedes-AMG, a separate brand from Mercedes-Benz.

The Alpina isn`t a BMW?

That depends on the Alpina, but yes, they are also a separate brand.

- OK if that is the that case the RUF is not a Porsche...U know what I mean... But "completely their own brand; independent from Porsche" they are NOT... The "independency" has something to do with money and politics; not technical issues...

Actually to be classed as a separate manufacturer under German law they must not use more than 25% of the original parts of the vehicle, so it most certainly is "technical issues".

You might also care to look up the Ruf CTR3 which, while sharing some components with the 997 911 (including the front subframe), is built on its own platform.

(But the 911 (and the later, refined Yellowbird) were never dangerous, insane cars. The Porsche 911 was in fact the "best car of the 20th century" or something...

Except that they were dangerous - for the average Joe or, more typically, the average Yuppie who made his money and bought a turbocharged rear-engined, rear-drive car and pendulumed himself into a tree.

The 1975 911 930 Turbo - on which the Yellowbird was based - was the very first car to be called "the widowmaker"...

 

[Johnnypenso]

It will tell you where on the web the photo comes from . EG- Used car dealership advert , sports magazine etc etc .

So no thanks bud 👍

And if it came from an individual person like millions of photos on the net do, it won't link that individual to his PSN or GTP name. Let it go.

This video gives you an idea of how much crazy oversteer the Yellowbird had in real life:

 

[Tornado]

I know this is the Internet , and people try to claim they have things , to make themselves look better or to try and emphasise their point etc . However on GTP there is a clause in the AUP that says people should not knowingly post information that is demonstrably false .

My point being , my spidey senses tell me that's a lie . I highly doubt you have ever owned one out of a Need For Speed title . Pics or it never happened 👍

On GTP there is also a thread for dealing with exactly such a scenario, and this isn't it.

Since you like analogies, a Ruf is typically slightly more similar to a 911 than a Jaguar XK is to an Aston Martin DB7, but slightly less similar to a 911 than a Renault Kadjar is to a Nissan Qashqai.

Literally the only shared components are the shell and sometimes the windows.

Actually to be classed as a separate manufacturer under German law they must not use more than 25% of the original parts of the vehicle, so it most certainly is "technical issues".

These three statements seem pretty misleading to me; particularly the first one . I'm sure they are technically true, since the simple fact that the Porsche bodyshells Ruf starts from are unstamped probably means that they have similar arrangements in place for components (especially when it comes to things like colors and the like that Porsche doesn't offer but are built to order for a RUF) which could constitute a new part number exclusive to Ruf, but I have a hard time believing that this:

So closely copies this:

And does so using completely bespoke parts. Particularly when not all Rufs are actually Rufs, since Ruf will still happily take your Porsche-with-a-legitimate-Porsche-VIN and simply modify it to the same specs as their own models.

 

[light driver]

Erm... What?

RUFs are distinctive enough to consider themselves a separate manufacturer. Their cars may use the same body style as the 911 Boxster, but everything else is completely different.

Alpina is like RUF. They make their own models through heavy manipulation of the main car (Alpina B6 = E30 M3 as a donor car). However, Alpina's ties with BMW is pretty tight, so they closely work together (BMW 7-Series and Alpina B7).

AMG is different namely because it is (I guess?) a performance division of their respective company - MB. They take the main car (take a MB C-Class) and upgrade or revamp the performance capabilities, whether it be a larger engine or enhanced dynamics in body and handling (C63 AMG).

The rest of what you said: No comment there.

What You say is correct...But...Still...The fact about RUF being "an independant car manufacturer" is still politics...

There are no greater difference between a RUF and a Porsche than between an AMG Mercedes and a Mercedes...

Why Porsche and RUF negotiated a deal that said RUF is independant from Porsche I don`t know. As I said it has something to do with money and BRANDING and "what is best for our company"... (Call some Porsche or RUF manager and ask what the benefits are, and why AMG/Alpina has different approach) (But don`t expect other answer than "we keep this to ourselves")

Except that it makes Ruf models Rufs and not Porsches.Then you'd be wrong.

Since you like analogies, a Ruf is typically slightly more similar to a 911 than a Jaguar XK is to an Aston Martin DB7, but slightly less similar to a 911 than a Renault Kadjar is to a Nissan Qashqai.Literally the only shared components are the shell and sometimes the windows.AMG is owned by Mercedes and, until 2014, the cars were all registered as Mercedes-Benz. They are now registered as Mercedes-AMG, a separate brand from Mercedes-Benz.That depends on the Alpina, but yes, they are also a separate brand.Actually to be classed as a separate manufacturer under German law they must not use more than 25% of the original parts of the vehicle, so it most certainly is "technical issues".

You might also care to look up the Ruf CTR3 which, while sharing some components with the 997 911 (including the front subframe), is built on its own platform.Except that they were dangerous - for the average Joe or, more typically, the average Yuppie who made his money and bought a turbocharged rear-engined, rear-drive car and pendulumed himself into a tree.

The 1975 911 930 Turbo - on which the Yellowbird was based - was the very first car to be called "the widowmaker"...

No man nonono, moderator or not. The P911/RUFs were not dangerous to mr every day loaded wealthy driver. People who could afford such a car, was waaaay to clever to crash it the day after. - You must be talking about the Yamaha V-Max right? THAT was a notoriously dangerous machine, the very first model...

P911/RUF were only dangerous to proffessional race drivers, who was told by their team TO WIN and push harder.

An average every day driver didn`t have the GUTS to put him in danger. The Porsche 911 was "the car of the 20ieth century"

But...The widow maker...???? Yeah barstooling. Every decent barstooler in the World has "a tonne of knowledge" on the P911 and it`s widowing....

Another car that was ALWAYS much more dangerous to it`s young low budget owner was...The Golf GTI...And the Ford Escort equipped with "tripple double Webers" THEY were dangerous, engine tuned and nothing more, standard brakes, standard worn out tires etc etc...Oh and the not so clever Young poorer man behind the wheel......There You have Your true widow makers...

Or look at the video with that IRL RUF Yellowbird there on the Ring...

The driver is veeeery talented. BUT he might end up killing somebody. He`s so good, he actually puts other, innocent peoples life at jeopardy. He`s proffessional, and it is people like him who crashes those cars, by pushing little harder.
not the loaded doctor who bought a car he couldn`t handle...

I still concider the RUFs as rebuild Porsches, nothing can convince me that RUF "manufators their own cars" - They build an interpretation of the 911, and they still stuff Porsche engine and stuff into the Porsche shell. Don`t want to argue about that...

 

[DaBomm4]

No man nonono, moderator or not. The P911/RUFs were not dangerous to mr every day loaded wealthy driver. People who could afford such a car, was waaaay to clever to crash it the day after. - You must be talking about the Yamaha V-Max right? THAT was a notoriously dangerous machine, the very first model...

P911/RUF were only dangerous to proffessional race drivers, who was told by their team TO WIN and push harder.

Wow, hahaha, nice try. Professionals take time to learn their vehicle to be able to control it properly, there are countless crashes from people who "didn't have the GUTS" to have a little too much fun with their sports car.

 

[Grandea GTR]

What You say is correct...But...Still...The fact about RUF being "an independant car manufacturer" is still politics...

There are no greater difference between a RUF and a Porsche than between an AMG Mercedes and a Mercedes...

Why Porsche and RUF negotiated a deal that said RUF is independant from Porsche I don`t know. As I said it has something to do with money and BRANDING and "what is best for our company"... (Call some Porsche or RUF manager and ask what the benefits are, and why AMG/Alpina has different approach) (But don`t expect other answer than "we keep this to ourselves")


No man nonono, moderator or not. The P911/RUFs were not dangerous to mr every day loaded wealthy driver. People who could afford such a car, was waaaay to clever to crash it the day after. - You must be talking about the Yamaha V-Max right? THAT was a notoriously dangerous machine, the very first model...

P911/RUF were only dangerous to proffessional race drivers, who was told by their team TO WIN and push harder.

An average every day driver didn`t have the GUTS to put him in danger. The Porsche 911 was "the car of the 20ieth century"

But...The widow maker...???? Yeah barstooling. Every decent barstooler in the World has "a tonne of knowledge" on the P911 and it`s widowing....

Another car that was ALWAYS much more dangerous to it`s young low budget owner was...The Golf GTI...And the Ford Escort equipped with "tripple double Webers" THEY were dangerous, engine tuned and nothing more, standard brakes, standard worn out tires etc etc...Oh and the not so clever Young poorer man behind the wheel......There You have Your true widow makers...

Or look at the video with that IRL RUF Yellowbird there on the Ring...

The driver is veeeery talented. BUT he might end up killing somebody. He`s so good, he actually puts other, innocent peoples life at jeopardy. He`s proffessional, and it is people like him who crashes those cars, by pushing little harder.
not the loaded doctor who bought a car he couldn`t handle...

I still concider the RUFs as rebuild Porsches, nothing can convince me that RUF "manufators their own cars" - They build an interpretation of the 911, and they still stuff Porsche engine and stuff into the Porsche shell. Don`t want to argue about that...

.....What...???

Are you okay or what? You seem out of your mind right now. I don't see any politics in the work RUF does.

I'm completely lost at the point you are trying to make right now...

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

This what it's like to drive Yellowbird in real life at Spa, listen to the conversation :



And in GT6 ( with proper setup adhering to real life ), it drives fine apart from the much needed improvement in tire model and suspension model Treat it like a RR should.

The car in the video is a replica vs AC stock YB. Driven by @Lewis_Hamilton_ for both AC + GT6 and recently reviewed by @OdeFinn in GT6.

Yes, have to say at I admire your work on these replicas, i.e. This CTR has absolutely perfect balance on suspension and overall handling (I'm speaking in terms of Porsche), the Porsche feeling of huge grip of rear tires coming from rear sitting engine is there. Car is deadly but manageable, as Porsche should be. First when driving on original ballast longer time ago (and this too) I just thought at loosen rear was GT6 physics fail, didn't then alter your tune and let it be, now when I checked ballast place on tune (researched bit Porsches real WD too) had balls to try repositioning it to more close to that 40/60 and had big bang on handling I'm now just sold for this tune/car. As you have researched original weight distro is pretty exact 40/60 and varies only more toward rear weight this makes me to test this WD fine tuning, feeling of turning/driving is same as on normal 911 after this change, when not pushing throttle hard. Own experience is from one 80's 911 and now this goes on line with it.
Those RUF guys aren't changed things to bad way, their tests and counts on suspension are pretty nice, PD physics works really well, all this proved by your brilliant idea and work with these replicas.
So after ballast repositioning car is still Porsche, or more Porsche (IMO), deadly guillotine on wheels, everything hanging on thin string, but you can go like a Tarzan with that string, if you just remember to hold tight and steady, one sudden pull on liana and guillotine will cut your head.

I will try few of your replicas more, those what have driven in real life, or more like their counterpart lower power versions, not for finding flaws, more or less for giving results what might be used for more precise replicas. These few where now altered on ballast give me more respect on your tunes, spring values, toes, cambers, ride height etc, cars are absolutely well balanced, springs are carrying weight of car so well, body movements on springs is there were any tuner in real world would like to it be.

Hopefully you understand my whole point of this ballast repositioning whine.

 

[Polsixe]

Yellowbird was Carrera-based,not Turbo, although it had turbo engine, (see attached).

Whatever serial numbers they have, not being a tax lawyer,

Ruf are hotrod tuner Porsches.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

And watch this recent review/test drive by Car & Driver, listen the driver comment on the car and how it slides easily on low speed corner.

The Ruf CTR3 is also awesome

 

[snarls200]

Plus wasn't the Porsche that Paul Walker in when he died known for being a beast to handle.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I wonder if maybe the OP was playing a little joke, saying that Ruf's are "aweful".

 

[twitcher]

What You say is correct...But...Still...The fact about RUF being "an independant car manufacturer" is still politics...

There are no greater difference between a RUF and a Porsche than between an AMG Mercedes and a Mercedes...

Why Porsche and RUF negotiated a deal that said RUF is independant from Porsche I don`t know. As I said it has something to do with money and BRANDING and "what is best for our company"... (Call some Porsche or RUF manager and ask what the benefits are, and why AMG/Alpina has different approach) (But don`t expect other answer than "we keep this to ourselves")


No man nonono, moderator or not. The P911/RUFs were not dangerous to mr every day loaded wealthy driver. People who could afford such a car, was waaaay to clever to crash it the day after. - You must be talking about the Yamaha V-Max right? THAT was a notoriously dangerous machine, the very first model...

P911/RUF were only dangerous to proffessional race drivers, who was told by their team TO WIN and push harder.

An average every day driver didn`t have the GUTS to put him in danger. The Porsche 911 was "the car of the 20ieth century"

But...The widow maker...???? Yeah barstooling. Every decent barstooler in the World has "a tonne of knowledge" on the P911 and it`s widowing....

Another car that was ALWAYS much more dangerous to it`s young low budget owner was...The Golf GTI...And the Ford Escort equipped with "tripple double Webers" THEY were dangerous, engine tuned and nothing more, standard brakes, standard worn out tires etc etc...Oh and the not so clever Young poorer man behind the wheel......There You have Your true widow makers...

Or look at the video with that IRL RUF Yellowbird there on the Ring...

The driver is veeeery talented. BUT he might end up killing somebody. He`s so good, he actually puts other, innocent peoples life at jeopardy. He`s proffessional, and it is people like him who crashes those cars, by pushing little harder.
not the loaded doctor who bought a car he couldn`t handle...

I still concider the RUFs as rebuild Porsches, nothing can convince me that RUF "manufators their own cars" - They build an interpretation of the 911, and they still stuff Porsche engine and stuff into the Porsche shell. Don`t want to argue about that...

TLDR; the P911 was safe for inexperienced, every day drivers, but dangerous for trained professionals

 

[TexRex]

The road manners of early 911s (for me to consider it a true "early" 911, the front and rear tires must be of the same dimension and general composition) weren't unreasonable. Take them onto the track or drive them in any way other than a general around-town fashion, and their claws come out. The early Turbos were similar in this regard, though not quite so approachable, and they got to be that way by offsetting the front rubber with something wider out back.

I've always said that if a buyer for my '70 2.2 S hadn't come up, I would've fit a 215/60 in the rear (like later non-Turbo models with the 15" wheels) for stability when I pushed the danged thing. Just as a point of reference, the early Turbos were fitted with 225s and 245s front and rear respectively.

That's regarding Porsche's offerings--the Rufs are another animal entirely.

 

[SVPSkins]

What You say is correct...But...Still...The fact about RUF being "an independent car manufacturer" is still politics...

Its not politics, its a fact. There both independent car manufacturers.

Plus wasn't the Porsche that Paul Walker in when he died known for being a beast to handle.

Yes it was

 

[Andyc709292]

We have a a regular racer who uses a RUF BTR in our 460pp (Race hard tyres) class, suitable for 1990 and before cars. Whilst true he has 'demon car' moments every so often he's pretty competitive in it. Main change was to move the center of gravity forwards a bit - though not so much as to make it feel boring!

As for the Yellow Bird, it's one of my favourite cars in the game since following a tune guide here in a forum post.

 

[light driver]

TLDR; the P911 was safe for inexperienced, every day drivers, but dangerous for trained professionals

No the exact opposite (Are You playing dumb and stupid or what? - stop it please)

The proffessional racedriver would pose a lot greater threat to the 911 (and to himself) than an every day driver...
Because he wants to win a race on a track, racing against other fast race cars. AND under these extreme conditions the handling characteristics (hammer with shaft front) might come into play, if the driver made a little mistake....

The every day driver will never find himself in a situation like this, on the public roads...He will never get his 911 enywhere near it`s limits....

THAT is what I`m saying, and I thought people would understand it. But it is HARD for me to explain these things when people like You are playing plain stupid. And those "liking" Your post must be playing stupid as well.

Listen to Yourself "...safe for inexperienced every day drivers..." (You said that, not I) - Dear You. How on Earth can an every day driver be inexperienced???? Can You see "syntax error" here. (No it`s not a syntax error, I just wrote that for the fun, so don`t play stupid on that too)...I was talking about every day drivers ctr race drivers...And YES race drivers has an infinite larger risc of dying behind the wheel than the every day driver...This is even more true in a 911...

But lets stop here...

.....What...???

Are you okay or what? You seem out of your mind right now. I don't see any politics in the work RUF does.

I'm completely lost at the point you are trying to make right now...

Well I have no idea what went wrong when I quoted/answered that post... It seems I quoted 2 persons by mistake, I refreshed the page and other things. I never found out how the quoting system works. My bad..

But...Why You are yelling WHAT with those big letter is hard to see. I think my post is relative clear. Except I did not succeed in the quoting operation

Of course two famous car companies Porsche and RUF have a political (economical) agreement... Money=politics. Firm politics. Goals. Strategy...POLITICS - UNDERSTOOD? (good so)

 

[Famine]

No man nonono, moderator or not.

What does being a moderator have to do with anything?

The P911/RUFs were not dangerous to mr every day loaded wealthy driver. People who could afford such a car, was waaaay to clever to crash it the day after.

Uhhh... what?

These were people who acquired wealth through banking, trading and the stock market, not drivers. Overnight wealth lead to them buying fast cars without any experience of fast cars and crashing them. It wasn't restricted to the 911, but the 911's unusual layout - rear engine and rear wheel drive - led to a lot more accidents across the speed range, not just high speed ones, as the drivers were not only unfamiliar with performance cars at all but also the pendulum effect of rear-engined cars.

The 930 Turbo, with a typical 1970s/1980s on/off boost turbo, was particularly prone to leaving the road very suddenly.

P911/RUF were only dangerous to proffessional race drivers, who was told by their team TO WIN and push harder.

That makes no sense at all.

An average every day driver didn`t have the GUTS to put him in danger.

I guess you've never been in a performance car on the road with a young, arrogant driver then.

The Porsche 911 was "the car of the 20ieth century"

But...The widow maker...???? Yeah barstooling. Every decent barstooler in the World has "a tonne of knowledge" on the P911 and it`s widowing....

That was literally what the 930 Turbo was called... everywhere. Even in contemporary literature. I don't recall any contemporary literature calling it "the car of the 20ieth century" (sic).

Another car that was ALWAYS much more dangerous to it`s young low budget owner was...The Golf GTI...And the Ford Escort equipped with "tripple double Webers" THEY were dangerous, engine tuned and nothing more, standard brakes, standard worn out tires etc etc...Oh and the not so clever Young poorer man behind the wheel......There You have Your true widow makers...

Oddly, they didn't ship from the factory with worn out tyres. And they had uprated brakes and suspension.

Bizarrely you bring up the cost of the car. Do you think that wealth is directly related to driver ability?

Or look at the video with that IRL RUF Yellowbird there on the Ring...

The driver is veeeery talented. BUT he might end up killing somebody. He`s so good, he actually puts other, innocent peoples life at jeopardy. He`s proffessional, and it is people like him who crashes those cars, by pushing little harder.
not the loaded doctor who bought a car he couldn`t handle...

You're literally babbling there. Not a lick of that makes any sense at all - and you even agree at the end there that a talented driver can handle the car, but a "loaded doctor" can't...

I still concider the RUFs as rebuild Porsches, nothing can convince me that RUF "manufators their own cars" - They build an interpretation of the 911, and they still stuff Porsche engine and stuff into the Porsche shell.

So you have a belief and you'll never be convinced, with evidence, that your belief is wrong - to the point of actively ignoring the evidence?

Sounds quite like a religion, that.

Don`t want to argue about that...

No, I bet. I mean the fact that the German goverment considers RUF GmBH to be its own manufacturer and in order for that to apply RUF must not use more than 25% of the original car is not enough for you. The fact that RUF builds the CTR3 which is not only more than 75% original (like all of its cars) but doesn't even use a Porsche shell isn't either.

Do you think that Peugeot and Citroen are companies that modify Toyotas because the 108/C1 are 90% the same as the Aygo?

No the exact opposite (Are You playing dumb and stupid or what? - stop it please)

I distinctly recall us having words with you before about how you address other members. That is unacceptable. Wind it in and converse in an adult fashion.

Listen to Yourself "...safe for inexperienced every day drivers..." (You said that, not I) - Dear You. How on Earth can an every day driver be inexperienced????

Driving a generic car backwards and forwards on the same road every day within the speed limit does not grant you experience. Or ability to go from a hatchback to a supercar overnight.


Porsche, meanwhile, is still concerned about its reputation for making "widowmakers" and having suddenly wealthy young men buy their cars and die within a month that they now offer a full day's professional instruction on a simulation road environment and adverse weather simulations to anyone who buys a new Porsche for free at one of its Porsche Experience Centres. I've been on one.

 

[Johnnypenso]

We have a a regular racer who uses a RUF BTR in our 460pp (Race hard tyres) class, suitable for 1990 and before cars. Whilst true he has 'demon car' moments every so often he's pretty competitive in it. Main change was to move the center of gravity forwards a bit - though not so much as to make it feel boring!

As for the Yellow Bird, it's one of my favourite cars in the game since following a tune guide here in a forum post.

For whatever reason, PD had a "pick and choose" approach in GT5/6 to which of the vintage cars they made competitive and which they didn't. A 71' Dino for example, which would never be competitive against modern cars of similar specs, manages to do very, very well in the 450pp class for example. Back when I was tuning, it was overall the fastest of the 450PP cars I tuned, out of 10 or so. Same with the Lamborghini LP400, Lamborghini Miura etc, all punching way above their weight. But a BTR or Yellowbird which would probably beat the Dino or Miura with it's eyes closed at similar specs, somehow can't keep up. The Dino and Miura have magic grip that the YB and BTR were not graced with. I think that is actually what the OP is complaining about for the most part.

 

[dr_slump]

This video gives you an idea of how much crazy oversteer the Yellowbird had in real life:

It should be mentioned that the driver is constantly forcing the car to go sideways, not accidentally, but on purpose. The whole purpose of that lap was to show off the car.

Of course, in many corners the car does oversteer on its own, just not that somebody thinks it's all down to the car's handling.

 

[light driver]

What does being a moderator have to do with anything?Uhhh... what?

These were people who acquired wealth through banking, trading and the stock market, not drivers. Overnight wealth lead to them buying fast cars without any experience of fast cars and crashing them. It wasn't restricted to the 911, but the 911's unusual layout - rear engine and rear wheel drive - led to a lot more accidents across the speed range, not just high speed ones, as the drivers were not only unfamiliar with performance cars at all but also the pendulum effect of rear-engined cars.

The 930 Turbo, with a typical 1970s/1980s on/off boost turbo, was particularly prone to leaving the road very suddenly.That makes no sense at all.I guess you've never been in a performance car on the road with a young, arrogant driver then.That was literally what the 930 Turbo was called... everywhere. Even in contemporary literature. I don't recall any contemporary literature calling it "the car of the 20ieth century" (sic).Oddly, they didn't ship from the factory with worn out tyres. And they had uprated brakes and suspension.

Bizarrely you bring up the cost of the car. Do you think that wealth is directly related to driver ability?You're literally babbling there. Not a lick of that makes any sense at all - and you even agree at the end there that a talented driver can handle the car, but a "loaded doctor" can't...So you have a belief and you'll never be convinced, with evidence, that your belief is wrong - to the point of actively ignoring the evidence?

Sounds quite like a religion, that.No, I bet. I mean the fact that the German goverment considers RUF GmBH to be its own manufacturer and in order for that to apply RUF must not use more than 25% of the original car is not enough for you. The fact that RUF builds the CTR3 which is not only more than 75% original (like all of its cars) but doesn't even use a Porsche shell isn't either.

Do you think that Peugeot and Citroen are companies that modify Toyotas because the 108/C1 are 90% the same as the Aygo?I distinctly recall us having words with you before about how you address other members. That is unacceptable. Wind it in and converse in an adult fashion.

Driving a generic car backwards and forwards on the same road every day within the speed limit does not grant you experience. Or ability to go from a hatchback to a supercar overnight.


Porsche, meanwhile, is still concerned about its reputation for making "widowmakers" and having suddenly wealthy young men buy their cars and die within a month that they now offer a full day's professional instruction on a simulation road environment and adverse weather simulations to anyone who buys a new Porsche for free at one of its Porsche Experience Centres. I've been on one.

Meh I really don`t want to argue a lot. I said the most of what I thought i would...

We`re all both right and wrong in our thoughts. It suddenly strikes me that this is also a cultural thing.
In my country, Denmark, the 911 poses absolutely no danger to the public...Reason is there are hardly any 911s in my country, and the few there are, are older classic models, being looked after by older mechanics, who take them for a sunday stroll. There are no RUFs here, if a Danish guy could afford a RUF, he moves to California immediatly. Something like that...

So what I wrote in my earlier posts here, are 100% correct. - If You are Danish.

What if You are....Russian? Oh my. We all know that traffic in Russia is "very very dangerous" - And we heard of the "new rich" Russians. Well if there are 10.000 new rich young Russians in Sct Peterburg who buys a RUF over a few weeks... Well in that case... My Danish model is not useful anymore. Now the 911/RUF really prove as a widow maker and a Russian killer. Of course. Modern power cars are dangerous in Russia, but the same would happen if the rich vodka inhaling Russian youngsters bought a Lambo or a Ferrari or.... Right?

And to Mr Bean (Rowan Atkinson) who crashed his Mclaren F1 - and a Danish footballer in England, who bought an Aston Martin and wrapped it around a light pole.

So there can be truth in everything, especially for You people who live in the Worlds great cities where You actually see those RUFs. I can`t imagine there ever was a RUF crash in my country, I never heard of it. But a few years ago some youngsters have nicked a ferrari 308 from some scene, and they made burnout on the harbor, until the car flew in the water. But there are very few fast cars in Denmark.

Other things...You say I bring costs in here. nah. I tell You which cars are the worst widow makers. In the least in my country. I say the RUF is not on the list here. But Golfs and Ford Escorts are.

I did not say that people with money drive better or worse than people without money. But a man who has success as a manager and director whatever, he can`t be stupid. And therefore he`s not likely to crash his brand new RUF the day after.

But yes, You are right about I forgot the "spoiled kids" who gets a RUF from daddy. But... how many do You know of such? None? Oh I thought so... But then Russia comes into play... LOL Russia is the future of RUF and P911.
Was it the vodka or the RUF that caused these 10.000 casualties???? Yeah...

Citroen and Peugeot modifying Toyotas? What? Are You playing clown or what? Peugeot, Citroen and Toyota have a common politic on these cars. It`s normal today. The Fiat 500 is the same as Ford KA...etc etc. Company politics. Or firm politics/strategy.

Answer this: What will happen if one of the 3 factories (Peugeot, Citroen or Toyota) closed down over night. - Well production would continue on the other factories. There might be a few problems but, contiue they would.

What if Porsche shuts down? This would mean the end of RUF in the same second. - Right?

What if RUF burned down night over? Well it would have no impact on the Porsche production whatsoever. - Right? So I answered Your "Toyota question" too...

Why do I always end up arguing? Hate it? Peace please...

 

[dr_slump]

What if Porsche shuts down? This would mean the end of RUF in the same second. - Right?

No

 

[Grandea GTR]

Meh I really don`t want to argue a lot. I said the most of what I thought i would...

We`re all both right and wrong in our thoughts. It suddenly strikes me that this is also a cultural thing.
In my country, Denmark, the 911 poses absolutely no danger to the public...Reason is there are hardly any 911s in my country, and the few there are, are older classic models, being looked after by older mechanics, who take them for a sunday stroll. There are no RUFs here, if a Danish guy could afford a RUF, he moves to California immediatly. Something like that...

So what I wrote in my earlier posts here, are 100% correct. - If You are Danish.

What if You are....Russian? Oh my. We all know that traffic in Russia is "very very dangerous" - And we heard of the "new rich" Russians. Well if there are 10.000 new rich young Russians in Sct Peterburg who buys a RUF over a few weeks... Well in that case... My Danish model is not useful anymore. Now the 911/RUF really prove as a widow maker and a Russian killer. Of course. Modern power cars are dangerous in Russia, but the same would happen if the rich vodka inhaling Russian youngsters bought a Lambo or a Ferrari or.... Right?

And to Mr Bean (Rowan Atkinson) who crashed his Mclaren F1 - and a Danish footballer in England, who bought an Aston Martin and wrapped it around a light pole.

So there can be truth in everything, especially for You people who live in the Worlds great cities where You actually see those RUFs. I can`t imagine there ever was a RUF crash in my country, I never heard of it. But a few years ago some youngsters have nicked a ferrari 308 from some scene, and they made burnout on the harbor, until the car flew in the water. But there are very few fast cars in Denmark.

Other things...You say I bring costs in here. nah. I tell You which cars are the worst widow makers. In the least in my country. I say the RUF is not on the list here. But Golfs and Ford Escorts are.

I did not say that people with money drive better or worse than people without money. But a man who has success as a manager and director whatever, he can`t be stupid. And therefore he`s not likely to crash his brand new RUF the day after.

But yes, You are right about I forgot the "spoiled kids" who gets a RUF from daddy. But... how many do You know of such? None? Oh I thought so... But then Russia comes into play... LOL Russia is the future of RUF and P911.
Was it the vodka or the RUF that caused these 10.000 casualties???? Yeah..

What...?

First off, why the Russians and the stereotypes they pose? Because all Russian drivers drink vodka... Right...

Second, what does Rowan Atkinson's McLaren F1 and a Danish footballer's Aston Martin have to do with RUF? These incidents happen because of human error. Not because they are too dangerous to drive. They could get carried away with the car, or some other factor.

Why do I always end up arguing? Hate it? Peace please...

Probably because what you're saying right now is not making any sense whatsoever to many of us.