Why CSA is just ridiculous and should be banned for wheels
- Thread starter nuu1212
- 425 comments
- 29,540 views
- 1,875
- United States
The game you guys received must have a different CSA than my game has. I just spent some more time playing with just CSA on, then just TCS from setting 1-5 and then with both turned off.
I used a GT3 911 as the test mule as I have accumulated over 2200 miles/ 3540km on this car within the game. I used Suzuka as it also has a good variety of corners and the hairpin exit is know to be an easy corner to lose the rear. I also have a lot of laps on this track.
What I determined in my unscientific test that as far as preventing a spinout CSA was very similar to TCS at a setting of 1. As far as "stomping on the gas" as some have claimed you can do with CSA again you can be much more heavy footed on TCS AT THE GAMES DEFAULT SETTING of 3.
I also was able to turn the same lap times with the way I drive with both CSA on and all aids turned off. I did have to be slightly more careful with the aids off going through the first esses on Suzuka and make sure I was perfectly on line.
The biggest thing I noticed was that on turn in to and exit from the hairpin with CSA on or all aids off the turn in was the same both ways. With TCS only activated it seemed it was more difficult to turn is as tight and not run wider on exit.
Also the TCS is active quite a bit more often and for longer periods than just CSA.
With TCS set on 4-5 I do not think you could spin out exiting the hairpin if you wanted to.
I drove the same lines at the same pace for all test. From what I feel the way it is implemented in the game actually TCS changes the driving physics of the game more than what CSA does.
I want one of those CSA games that makes the cars several seconds a lap faster, mine must be broke!
Actually not knowing what the set up will be currently for the actual FIA championship how does anyone know what the allowable parimeters will be or whether the FFB will be adjustable as is currently in game or not?
And even in real world racing power steering feedback and the amount of pressure a driver would have to exert on the steering wheel can be adjusted through the use of valving sizes and valving spring pressures to within whatever the class would allow. The level of pressure or flow either one could be changed to alter the amount of assist the powersteering pump would give to the rack or steering box.
So a set feedback on a wheel would not allways be correct either.
I got all bent out of shape over CSA before. I care less now.
I still think it's daft it's available in sport mode but it is.
However, I have the feeling (fatalistic hope?) that when the FIA races start, CSA may well be prohibited.
This will be an advantage to me over the minority that do use CSA habitually. It is a minority after all as far as my replays inform me.
I still think it's daft it's available in sport mode but it is.
However, I have the feeling (fatalistic hope?) that when the FIA races start, CSA may well be prohibited.
This will be an advantage to me over the minority that do use CSA habitually. It is a minority after all as far as my replays inform me.
- 6,356
- Michigan
- DaveTheStalker
Hey @Macboyilija, since you’re such an masterful expert (aka “alien” who uses no abs or any awful driver assists), where did you place in the GT Academy final 16? How about you show us your highlight reel from Silverstone?
Where are you in the current FIA points? Screenshot please.
Where are you in the current FIA points? Screenshot please.
- 890
- NZL
- colinnola
I hate that this thread refuses to die, but that's just gaming communities for you; they can never agree on anything. 
Now I've only just remembered that GT Sport was used here in New Zealand for an e-sport event in December. It was a Gr3, 25 laps around Bathurst and most certainly had CSA prohibited. They used the setup that was supplied by the event.
But those were the rules of that particular race, set by the organisers. Sport mode is different. It's meant to be playable by anyone who has the game and a PS4.
Now I've only just remembered that GT Sport was used here in New Zealand for an e-sport event in December. It was a Gr3, 25 laps around Bathurst and most certainly had CSA prohibited. They used the setup that was supplied by the event.
But those were the rules of that particular race, set by the organisers. Sport mode is different. It's meant to be playable by anyone who has the game and a PS4.
- 1,654
- UK
- JacksHereR
Some people will extract more from CSA than others, it all depends on how much you are currently leaving on the table.
The above statement explains why you didn't extract anything extra from having CSA switched on.
Something in my brain holds me back from going beyond what I perceive to be the limit, when I have tested CSA, maybe it's just placebo that enables me to push past my brains limit and shave a few tenths here and there. When I do a lap immediately after switching CSA off, I am still able to push those personal boundaries, but I reach the point where I start coming off, and my brain resets to careful.
That doesn't happen with CSA on, I reach a point where I start going off track and simply drive back on the track and keep pushing harder.
The above statement explains why you didn't extract anything extra from having CSA switched on.
Something in my brain holds me back from going beyond what I perceive to be the limit, when I have tested CSA, maybe it's just placebo that enables me to push past my brains limit and shave a few tenths here and there. When I do a lap immediately after switching CSA off, I am still able to push those personal boundaries, but I reach the point where I start coming off, and my brain resets to careful.
That doesn't happen with CSA on, I reach a point where I start going off track and simply drive back on the track and keep pushing harder.
- 1,400
- Netherlands
Nice to see there are more people thinking like me. Even though I tend to go further than only CSA. This thread also proves that it could be a good idea to make a separate class. People who use steering wheel and people with controller. Not as a necessity but as a choice. So if there are steering wheel drivers that want to drive with all it should be allowed. Everyone his own wish. If there are steering wheel drivers that only want to drive with steering wheel drivers, that should be also possible. Same for controllers.
In that way both camps are happy. No one needs to change its driving style. They who want something special can choose it themselves. I cannot understand why this is not accepted but debated.
It remains funny that those who want change are explaining why and suggest an addition so no one needs to change a thing. And those who are happy with all the aids cannot show respect to others why they feel the need to have a more equal competition. With what argument in the end ? That GT is just a game. And not a true simulation. I have never seen a better losing argument than that.
I think we can now close all threads on GT planet with our final winning argument that its just a game....
But as I can imagine you fall into the fantasy-group “you are too slow so you are complaining”. Great argument !
To answer your question: i have never started FIA sessions yet. I guess I am not ready for driving with all the aids turned on
No serious: no time yet to find couple of days after one another to start it. I have only driven like 60 races in sport mode. Have won about 10% of those. So really happy about this actually. Enjoying the game and the fights. People are driving with a lot of respect with each other where I am now. So close ratio racing is great great fun. That is the thing I enjoy most in sport mode. People in front of me and people behind me. Adrenaline level sky high.
Cant wait to start FIA though ! So what is your point ?
Understand that if you are top 10 of the world but you drive with all the aids on that to me that doesnt really mean much. That doesnt mean that without aids they would not be as fast. Surely they are. They will always be faster. I am not that good and that is more than oké. That has never been my point. I am not result-orientated but I am fun-oriented. Hard to believe to some trophy hunters. You do not get my respect by your time. But by your driving. Sometimes I see people in the mid section that drive with a lot more respect than guys up front.
Maybe some would have other ideas. I dont care. I just care about driving with aids off. That is my only thing that matters in these kind of games. Sports equality. To other people different things matter. As some will state: it is about racing and only the fastest time matters. To me it doesnt work like that. But it seems difficult for some people to simply believe that or understand that.
In that way both camps are happy. No one needs to change its driving style. They who want something special can choose it themselves. I cannot understand why this is not accepted but debated.
It remains funny that those who want change are explaining why and suggest an addition so no one needs to change a thing. And those who are happy with all the aids cannot show respect to others why they feel the need to have a more equal competition. With what argument in the end ? That GT is just a game. And not a true simulation. I have never seen a better losing argument than that.
I think we can now close all threads on GT planet with our final winning argument that its just a game....
If you want me to seriously answer your question - which I am willing to do - would you first show me some respect and prove to me that you actually read my post ? Because your current post is an insult since i have never stated that I am an alien. And that I dont care about being first or gathering trophies but that I play this game for the serious fun and serious competition and not need for speed arcade style.
But as I can imagine you fall into the fantasy-group “you are too slow so you are complaining”. Great argument !
To answer your question: i have never started FIA sessions yet. I guess I am not ready for driving with all the aids turned on
No serious: no time yet to find couple of days after one another to start it. I have only driven like 60 races in sport mode. Have won about 10% of those. So really happy about this actually. Enjoying the game and the fights. People are driving with a lot of respect with each other where I am now. So close ratio racing is great great fun. That is the thing I enjoy most in sport mode. People in front of me and people behind me. Adrenaline level sky high.
Cant wait to start FIA though ! So what is your point ?
Understand that if you are top 10 of the world but you drive with all the aids on that to me that doesnt really mean much. That doesnt mean that without aids they would not be as fast. Surely they are. They will always be faster. I am not that good and that is more than oké. That has never been my point. I am not result-orientated but I am fun-oriented. Hard to believe to some trophy hunters. You do not get my respect by your time. But by your driving. Sometimes I see people in the mid section that drive with a lot more respect than guys up front.
Maybe some would have other ideas. I dont care. I just care about driving with aids off. That is my only thing that matters in these kind of games. Sports equality. To other people different things matter. As some will state: it is about racing and only the fastest time matters. To me it doesnt work like that. But it seems difficult for some people to simply believe that or understand that.
Last edited:
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,726
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
The more you split the user base the less chance you have of matching equal players together is one perfectly valid argument against it, and may well be a factor for PD.
Its a balance that will never be easy to manage, particularly given that the numbers show that only around 6% of buyers stay online for the long term (20 or more sport races)
Disagreeing with you doesn't indicate a lack of respect!
Define game and define simulation.
GTS is a game (as are all video games, console or PC based).
GTS is a sim, but does it have the same degree of fidelity, detail and accuracy as others on the same platform? No.
Then you've not been here anything like long enough.
Quite the opposite, differing point of view are why forums exist, you are demanding agreement and an end to the dissent (as its not respectful), that's the opposite of what drives a discussion forum.
Attempting to shut down opposing voices because of a claim they don't show respect for you and a chosen title is far closer to calling for an end to all discussion.
You're both out of line and you both keep making in personal, while both attempting to claim moral advantage.
As such I have news for both of you (and everyone else).
You don't get to set that standard and you don't get to make that call here.
The site owner and the staff do, and should anyone wish to test that fact, they will find out exactly how those rules, standards and the interpretation of them play out in reality.
- 1,400
- Netherlands
Regarding the AUP:
Fair enough mod, but as you can clearly see in this thread I have only given my opinion and never asked anyone else to follow my opinion. I did not ask anyone to change his view.
I take notice and will watch not being to personal. So sorry for that. But on the other site, people are attacking my opinion. So I feel insulted. Asking me for a screen shot while that totally is not the point is disagreeing or just being personal ?? That is one example. In reply they get personal by multiple times using the argument that I am not fast enough and probably therefore I am whining. I explained its not about speed. Its about fun.
Second of all people are saying that one should not care how others drive white I clearly explained why to me it matters how others drive. In a good discussion one needs to respect my view while clearly some are not doing that. I said to me its about fun knowing that others have the same issues as me keeping the car handling good. I never said this fun should be anyones fun. But do not attack me for having this fun.
So they are not respecting my opinion while I am not doing that.
I understand that acting as a mod is better only done when it gets serious. You want some room for discussion. And you dont want to act to soon as a mod. I know this of experience. Because some discussions are driven on the edge. But I have been clearly “attacked” a couple of times and not shown any respect to me and my suggestions and most of all what I like and dislike about the game.
No one should suggest to another what to like and how to play. I sure did not do this while the other camp is clearly doing that to me and one other person. They are deciding for me what I should or should not like and why and what I should do with that. That seems personal and attacking and not showing respect. If I did the same thing than let me know and I will change my quotes accordingly. Because I did not meant it that way.
But I will watch my words better and chose them more wisely no worries. To be honest I think most has been said in this topic and all arguments have been used. As you said: I am pretty new to this forum and not used of some ways of discussions. But that is maybe my own fault.
On topic discussion:
I stated earlier that I understand that and why PD is not separating the camps since it will split too many people and even now there are not always enough people playing. Last night I drove with multiple S S users because there were not enough driving themselves.
And I also understand you want the game to be for all people and not a hardcore sim. So this is very clear and understandable. You can never make everybody happy of course. So it makes a lot of sense to keep all together regardless how they play the game. This is also a great plus of the game.
To me personaliy I dont like hardcore simracing. I dont like the games that are played on PC. I am here only for the fun. So I love Gran Turismo. And have also shared a lot of positive things from this wonderful game.
Fair enough mod, but as you can clearly see in this thread I have only given my opinion and never asked anyone else to follow my opinion. I did not ask anyone to change his view.
I take notice and will watch not being to personal. So sorry for that. But on the other site, people are attacking my opinion. So I feel insulted. Asking me for a screen shot while that totally is not the point is disagreeing or just being personal ?? That is one example. In reply they get personal by multiple times using the argument that I am not fast enough and probably therefore I am whining. I explained its not about speed. Its about fun.
Second of all people are saying that one should not care how others drive white I clearly explained why to me it matters how others drive. In a good discussion one needs to respect my view while clearly some are not doing that. I said to me its about fun knowing that others have the same issues as me keeping the car handling good. I never said this fun should be anyones fun. But do not attack me for having this fun.
So they are not respecting my opinion while I am not doing that.
I understand that acting as a mod is better only done when it gets serious. You want some room for discussion. And you dont want to act to soon as a mod. I know this of experience. Because some discussions are driven on the edge. But I have been clearly “attacked” a couple of times and not shown any respect to me and my suggestions and most of all what I like and dislike about the game.
No one should suggest to another what to like and how to play. I sure did not do this while the other camp is clearly doing that to me and one other person. They are deciding for me what I should or should not like and why and what I should do with that. That seems personal and attacking and not showing respect. If I did the same thing than let me know and I will change my quotes accordingly. Because I did not meant it that way.
But I will watch my words better and chose them more wisely no worries. To be honest I think most has been said in this topic and all arguments have been used. As you said: I am pretty new to this forum and not used of some ways of discussions. But that is maybe my own fault.
On topic discussion:
I stated earlier that I understand that and why PD is not separating the camps since it will split too many people and even now there are not always enough people playing. Last night I drove with multiple S S users because there were not enough driving themselves.
And I also understand you want the game to be for all people and not a hardcore sim. So this is very clear and understandable. You can never make everybody happy of course. So it makes a lot of sense to keep all together regardless how they play the game. This is also a great plus of the game.
To me personaliy I dont like hardcore simracing. I dont like the games that are played on PC. I am here only for the fun. So I love Gran Turismo. And have also shared a lot of positive things from this wonderful game.
Last edited:
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,726
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
It seems that I need to be clearer on a few points.
If you feel someone is breaking the AUP then use the report button and the staff will investigate it and take action if required.
It's also important to note that someone attacking your argument does not mean that they are attacking you, regardless of if you feel insulted by it. Playing the argument is perfectly acceptable, and if you are at a point that you are not able to separate an attack on a point you are making from a direct personal attack, then that is something you will need to work on at a personal level.
- 1,400
- Netherlands
I reported it using the report button. After that I saw your message as a mod in the thread and thought that you solved it that way.
I am not offended by attacking my arguments. It is all clear 👍
I am not offended by attacking my arguments. It is all clear 👍
- 1,068
- Raleigh, NC
- booch16
The only thing I would say about CSA is that I wouldn't be bragging about lap times made using it. It's an aid, a huge one, and is extremely helpful. As long as it's allowed in sport mode or wherever there isn't much point arguing about it. If it's allowed, use it.
- 6,356
- Michigan
- DaveTheStalker
First, do you realize that most modern racing cars have extremely complex driver assists? Not as a cheat, but to make racing better. Watching the 24 Hours of Daytona last weekend, the guys on Fox Sports didn’t complain for hours on end about driver aids being used.
Based on many of your replies to various people, you want PD to segregate drivers into several classes:
Those who use a wheel.
Those who use a DS4.
Those who use a DS4 with Motion Control.
Those who use driver aids of any sort or combination.
Those who use ABS 1, TC 1-3, CSA, and ASM.
Those who use only ABS 1, or default in GTS and no other aids.
Here the kicker: Those who use a wheel, are not allowed to use any aids.
That would make for a lot of Sport Mode Daily Races.
Who is trying to stop me from enjoying my game? Being that I am both a DS4-MC & a wheel user (see my signature), I guess I’m not allowed to use driver assists. So, that would be you.
Please stop thinking the world is only about you.
Incidently, my average license test or mission or Course Experience is silver unless I work at it MANY times to get gold. The full lap around The Ring in CE, I missed bronze by .005. I was gutted, I hate that track. In GT Academy, I’d be happy to finish in the top 10,000.
Last edited:
- 1,400
- Netherlands
I understand segregating is not in the best interest of the game. However you cannot deny that clearly there are people who would like to see a point in the game where no CSA/aids are allowed.
In the end I do understand why it is not implemented.
For TCS I will acknowledge that in real racing it is allowed. However, as stated, I am not a hardcore simracer so comparing to reality is not my point of view. My point of view is having maximum fun stepping on the gas in corners and catching a drift on time before its too late that gives me adrenaline, but only when I am not the only one.
In the end I do understand why it is not implemented.
For TCS I will acknowledge that in real racing it is allowed. However, as stated, I am not a hardcore simracer so comparing to reality is not my point of view. My point of view is having maximum fun stepping on the gas in corners and catching a drift on time before its too late that gives me adrenaline, but only when I am not the only one.
- 6,356
- Michigan
- DaveTheStalker
If CSA is how the top ten times are set, then turn it on, you will instantly have the number 1 time?
- 1,400
- Netherlands
Why would I want the number 1 time ? Cant you just accept that for some people it is not relevant to be the best in the world ? Regardless that I even could not be that good if i wanted. I am no alien but a sub pro driver at best.
I am here for the fun not for the trophies. If that means sometimes winning, sometimes losing or being 5th and fighting for position, it doesnt matter. Not all people play games only for the win. Some can find enjoyment in just racing with respect with a group. When I am in pole position I notice i sometimes have less fun and adrenaline then when driving in 5th position and fighting for positions.
Is that so hard to believe ?
I am here for the fun not for the trophies. If that means sometimes winning, sometimes losing or being 5th and fighting for position, it doesnt matter. Not all people play games only for the win. Some can find enjoyment in just racing with respect with a group. When I am in pole position I notice i sometimes have less fun and adrenaline then when driving in 5th position and fighting for positions.
Is that so hard to believe ?
Last edited:
- 204
- United States
I am not aware of any top flight racing series that allows something similar to that of CSA.
- 6,356
- Michigan
- DaveTheStalker
You don’t get a 1 year contract with NISSAN for just having fun.
I don’t know what the rules are of any sanctioning body that allows assists or what the extend of the terminology covers. Do you?
- 1,400
- Netherlands
You will also not get a contract with Nissan if you can only drive a controller with CSA ...
- 204
- United States
Off the top of my head I know for certain that F1, NASCAR, IndyCar, and Austrailian V8 supercars do not allow anything that resembles CSA. And like I said, I'm not aware of any series that do. Many allow assists, but it's typically limited to TC and ABS from what I've seen/read.
Besides, I'm not even sure something like CSA would be possible in real life without slowing the car down.
Last edited:
- 6,356
- Michigan
- DaveTheStalker
I’m very aware NASCAR and F1 don’t use any assists. NASCAR just recently started using EFI. Which can be tuned to a certain curve. What I did say is among the sanctioning bodies that DO ALLOW assists, I have no idea what the precise rules are regarding their “extremely complex traction control and ABS systems” (Tommy Kendall). Such as the classes of cars that race in the IMSA Weathertech Sportscar Series.
Yeah, it’s a matter of detecting loss of grip and applying brake to that tire and or temporary power reduction. I’m not an engineer, so I don’t know exactly how their computers are controlling loss of grip in ANY capacity. Or what IMSA’s rules are regarding it.
Do you?
Unless you win GT Academy it’s not gonna happen. I know I won’t be. I know a few aliens who have come close but did not win.
