Why CSA is just ridiculous and should be banned for wheels

  • Thread starter nuu1212
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If it helps make people safer in races, all power to them. I figure that with enough laps, non CSA will eventually match a CSA time anyway.

The GTS manual recommends the weak setting is turned on for my DS4 but I'm not a fan of it. Not from a purist's point of view. I just want to know where my mistakes are being made. Please bear that in mind if you ever go wheel to wheel with me.:P

I always thought CSA would be counter intuitive with a wheel though. Maybe the reason the manual recommends turning CSA off for them?
 
There's simulating reality (with some simulation issues, but it does well at bringing online racing to the masses), then there is just bringing in total arcade level driver aids.

Maybe a grip boost driver aid should be there too to help the lower DR drivers. Then all the DR-S drivers can use that too ;) /sarcasm

I'm cool with TCS + ABS. I don't use TCS though, but, it's used a lot IRL so it's all good. Not a fan of the rest, and when I'm lobby owner I set the rules so all is well.
 
GTWelsh
There's simulating reality (with some simulation issues, but it does well at bringing online racing to the masses), then there is just bringing in total arcade level driver aids.

Maybe a grip boost driver aid should be there too to help the lower DR drivers. Then all the DR-S drivers can use that too ;) /sarcasm

I'm cool with TCS + ABS. I don't use TCS though, but, it's used a lot IRL so it's all good. Not a fan of the rest, and when I'm lobby owner I set the rules so all is well.
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Everything good with that. The only point which annoyed me is that complaining and telling about CSA drivers are driving not legit or doing some not legit stuff like iam hearing everyday. So its quite annoying for me.
 
Lebowski
I hate Meganes, Sciroccos and TT's. To me they are for people who can't handle a RWD car.

But that's just my view and probably a daft one at that. This games object is to win. If people can win using a FWD car then good on them. Nothing wrong with it. Perhaps it's their safety net so they don't spin off the track and stay consistent, you know, much like CSA.
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If PD set-up FWD Touring Cars in the same way they are in reality they wouldn't be seen as a safety net.

As they are all you get is understeer to manage, nothing close to enough lift-off oversteer.
 
I mostly agree with the opening post, but I would go further and say I would like CSA banned outright, I've seen skilled pad users who don't need it, and occasionally a top ten guy will set the fastest time without it. Normally 9 out of 10 top ten times are set with it on, because it is ridiculous.

Should it be banned though? No. Too many lower skilled players couldn't do 1 lap let alone 10 laps on the track with it switched off. They need it switched on to achieve their lines and aggressive car control and contact/avoiding contact with other vehicles.

Lines and Speed dominate in this version of GT over car control. That's why using a pad vs a wheel makes no difference.

What would be nice to be in effect, would be that ASM CSA and Driving Line aids be excluded for DR:A and DR:S.

Thankfully there are open lobbies for people who want to compete on the same playing field, where all the aids can be prohibited.
 
I’m a bit ambivalent about CSA. I did all my racing without it, being used to the fact from previous GT games, that everything except ABS made you slower. Then I did notice however, that TC was working a lot better in GTS, so I started using that on 1 sometimes depending on the car.

Then I read about the CSA controversy. I tried it and the effects were astounding. I didn’t notice much while driving, but it somehow instilled confidence in braking later and accelerating earlier. I was even reducing TC or turning it off again as a consequence. For me, it gave me 3-8 tenths per lap, and considering I wasn’t THAT far away from the top 10, this is a significant gain.

I guess I wouldn’t race in Sports mode without it anymore, but “privately” I’m not using it. I can’t quite consider it to be an equivalent to real life ESP, as such a system usually doesn’t make a car faster, as it’s using selective braking of single wheels.

If I had to sum it up, I’d say it makes you feel like you can drive better than you really can, so although it feels great, it’s a bit like forbidden fruit. :lol:

Edit: I do know that there is a racing version stability control on the real life BMW Z4 GT3. So, systems similar to this exist, but are usually not allowed or in use.
 
If they remove CSA and the other unrealistic assists, ASM, cones, driving line, etc then great. Until they do or make the cars better without it/make using it have a downside, I'll continue to use CSA on some cars. It's not like you can't spin with it on, you most certainly can, it just makes the cars a touch more forgiving and will likely gain you a few tenths a lap consistently, it won't magically make me faster than better drivers (most of them use it too anyway though).

If everyone used it, it would also be fair/equal and then the racing would be a lot safer too.:P
 
I'm the opposite, in sports mode I only use ABS, the sense of fun driving a lively car in sport mode vs pointing a car around a track is a no brainer as I play games for fun.

However, grinding for credit with the KTM Xbow on Bluemoon Bay.. try to get a clean win without aids vs having ASM and CSA switched on.
 
Honestly whats the point in learning how to control the throttle and keeping the wheel straight anyways? When the computer will do it for you and save you from too much mental/physical excertion.

*EDIT I meant reducing steering angle, not keeping the wheel straight
 
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JacksHerer
I'm the opposite, in sports mode I only use ABS, the sense of fun driving a lively car in sport mode vs pointing a car around a track is a no brainer as I play games for fun.

However, grinding for credit with the KTM Xbow on Bluemoon Bay.. try to get a clean win without aids vs having ASM and CSA switched on.
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Losing a race because of a random spin you didn't expect isn't fun and can happen in GT Sport if you run without CSA on some cars. If you spin with it on you know you've done something wrong.

NosOsH
Honestly whats the point in learning how to control the throttle and keeping the wheel straight anyways? When the computer will do it for you and save you from too much mental/physical excertion.
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It does not do it for you, mash the throttle whilst turning and you'll spin, even with it on. It's a help sure but it's no magic fix everything tool.
 
I drive with a DS4 and use X/square and don't need CSA! (It feels awkward to use IMO)
The only thing I'm using is TC at 2-3 and ABS.

But I'm wondering, does CSA really make you faster? At least for DS4 users?
And is the other counter steering assist ASM slowing you down? I always get confused with those, as they have other names in germany :P
 
kilesa4568
An age old argument for the purists. They've forgotten it's just a game.
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I know full well it's just a game, and I'm assuming the FFB isn't helping correct slides very well and so CSA gets used. But that's an assumption.

"It's just a game" could be said about everything, from this to wall riders to pit glitchers.

I don't like some of the aids, but that's fine, others do.

JacksHerer
What would be nice to be in effect, would be that ASM CSA and Driving Line aids be excluded for DR:A and DR:S.
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I'd love that.
 
I'm not fast enough to win races in DR:A anyway, so I don't care for the competitive edge that CSA gives.

Yes it's disappointing to lose places because I made an error, but without disappointments the success would be diluted to feeling nothing/boring.

I don't think I've ever spun for something random, I've always attributed it to putting the car out of shape or miss judging the grip of that side of the track or curb.
 
bmxmitch
I drive with a DS4 and use X/square and don't need CSA! (It feels awkward to use IMO)
The only thing I'm using is TC at 2-3 and ABS.

But I'm wondering, does CSA really make you faster? At least for DS4 users?
And is the other counter steering assist ASM slowing you down? I always get confused with those, as they have other names in germany :P
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I've tried with and without ASM/CSA and can't really tell any difference tbh. I use TCS 2 on RWD though so maybe this is why it's not noticeable.
 
MINKIHL
For me CSA Topic is the same like the cutting Corner Topic.
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Just a moment.

There´s a big difference i think.

Cutting corners is cheating and unsportsmanlike.

Using CSA makes you not really faster……but if someone wants to use it - ok then. no problem with that.



I drive always without any „help-things“, except Brake control on 1, rest off (Logitech G29)
 
I dont think (Counter Steer Assist) makes you a faster driver, but it helps keep you on track by not losing control and ending up backwards in the grass so it would make an inconsistant driver faster on average for sure.
Dont know what ASM does in the game, maybe Yaw control with single tire braking?
TCM should be braking a tire that starts to slip? (not enough tho IMO)
 
Robben
I've tried with and without ASM/CSA and can't really tell any difference tbh. I use TCS 2 on RWD though so maybe this is why it's not noticeable.
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Well, ASM just seem to slow you down, as it stops your tires from spinning!?
And CSA just corrects your car in a weird way, you should clearly feel the difference. Just try it on a strait and you'll see what I mean ;)

But I'm still not sure what assist would make me faster, so I stick to no assists and just adjust the TC as I need it.
 
bmxmitch
Well, ASM just seem to slow you down, as it stops your tires from spinning!?
And CSA just corrects your car in a weird way, you should clearly feel the difference. Just try it on a strait and you'll see what I mean ;)

But I'm still not sure what assist would make me faster, so I stick to no assists and just adjust the TC as I need it.
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I tested it yesterday with the 208 on Miyabi... tested with ASM/CSA weak/CSA strong and got a better time with all off
 
bmxmitch
Maybe try it with a car that can reach 100mph and you will see a real difference :P
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:lol:

I do try it most nights when qualifying but results I have to say are inconclusive.. maybe due to my inconsistencies however!
 
MINKIHL
So you burn little wheels from little girls with fire?...
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Nah you're just making things up now.
Scaff
So boys automatically know how to ride a bike?

Next time leave the casual sexism at the door.
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Oh dear, I think you both know very well what I meant by this example. I guess I should of used the term ''training wheels on a little bike''. I do apologise.
 
Robben
I tested it yesterday with the 208 on Miyabi... tested with ASM/CSA weak/CSA strong and got a better time with all off
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It won't help with that car, just turn everything but ABS off in those cases. It's only the high power FR,MR cars that benefit, especially ones that are a bit twitchy normally.

ASM will never help, it's rubbish.
 
CSA won't make your perfect lap faster, it will help you reach your fastest lap sooner.
In a race it will enable you to run like you are hot lapping.

On bluemoon bay in the KTM-xbow, CSA, ASM and AT will enable you to eat biscuits and sip tea while still doing the same lap times that you would otherwise need to be really concentrating to achieve. Also doing 15 laps on the trot.
 
Im definately not Elitist been B/A-S since day 7. Just got to A/S yesterday for the first time.
I just feel a LITTLE disheartened putting in as much time and effort as I have to be beaten in battle by someone using aids. Dont even get me started on skilled dirty drivers...
Especially the guys in the top ten who are already fast without aids to be using them...Im 1-2 seconds slower usually so Im a long way off but..
Sorry i just cant bring myself to do it, its a matter of pride.
 
It is definitely a crutch, but I don't see it being anywhere near as bad as SRF was in GT6; that being said I don't think I ever did an SRF race, avoided at all costs.

The "if you don't like it don't use it" argument is fair, but it's not so simple when racing - even if it's only a perceived advantage, people will seek to level the playing field.

This might already be the case so please correct me if it is, but a workable solution could be to offer + / - DR score% based on how many, which, or the severity of driver aids used?

That way the purists can have it off and not feel like they're at a disadvantage (may be a slightly more challenging drive, but they're "reimbursed" through DR score), and people who use it as a crutch can do so without being harassed constantly for doing so (yes it's easier, but I'm negatively affecting the rate of my earnd DR score).
 
It is an idiotic option TBH, I play 95% of a time on DS4 and I cannot stand that... nor I use it... it kills car and driving (even though it is a simcade)...
 

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