Why is Kaz straight up lying about the features in the game?

[VBR]

"Gran Turismo Sport is actually going to contain more features than any other game in the series to date. Nothing has been dropped, things have only been added."

"In Gran Turismo Sport not only do we have all the different features that we had in the past titles, we also have lots of brand new features..."

So, apparently, dynamic weather wasn't a "feature" of past GT games.

 

[azeeza]

So, apparently, dynamic weather wasn't a "feature" of past GT games.

At least it s for all tracks now (still not confirmed) but we lost on random and full time cycle

 

[daus26]

Nothing has been dropped is a pretty bold statement. Last time we heard about tuning, we couldn't do any thing such as like making a GTR 1000hp. And yes, dynamic time of day and weather as well, another confirmed missing feature.

While these are not confirmed to be missing, it's highly likely to me we won't be seeing used cars, b-spec, career mode, GT auto (oil change/car wash/engine rebuild/custom paint/etc.), and other quirky things like nos. GT has always got many features, just poor execution, so saying nothing has been dropped only added, or having the most features of any GT game is not a feather weight statement.

 

[Mr Tree]

The first question that springs to mind is 'What exactly does one define as a feature?'.

Well, actually, the first question is 'Do we know everything about the finished game yet?' - because right now we're assuming that course maker isn't in it, along with a bunch of other things - but that doesn't really help.

I'd be almost certain that Yamauchi has not forgotten all the things that were in all the previous games. I'm absolutely positive he hasn't forgotten things like vehicle tuning, used car garage, dynamic weather and time, the Moon and course maker, so we're left with a few possibilities:
1. They're in the game
2. They're not in the game and Yamauchi has overstated
3. They're not considered as 'features'

Let's take dynamic weather. Yamauchi has said that dynamic weather isn't in GT Sport. He's also said:

So the three options are:
1. It's a feature that is in GT Sport and he was wrong to say it isn't.
2. It's a feature that isn't in GT Sport and he was wrong to say it is.
3. It's not considered to be 'a feature'.

Yamauchi isn't prone to lying. He's prone to optimism and excitedly telling people about what's planned to be in the next game (and the one after it), very much in the same way that Peter Molyneux was*, but I've never come across an actual lie. Sure, GT games have missed release dates, and the next game is always 'probably 80% done' and this thing and that thing had to be pared down from the original plan to the final product (course maker, for example, was 100km x 100km, then 50km x 50km, then released at 10km maximum track length), but never 'this is in my game' when it patently wasn't.

This makes me wonder what is and isn't considered to be a feature. Ultimately, I think it's something that could stand some clarification before anyone leaps in with 'he's straight up lying'.

We may have some more interview opportunities before the game is released, and if we're able, we'll put these questions to him.


*I've heard stories from those who have worked with both, and they share a characteristic of being super-excited about what they're doing to the point of accidentally telling journalists what they're trying to get into the next game rather than talking about the current game that the journalists are there to see. Molyneux was legendary for it, and the publishers he worked for were perpetually in damage limitation mode because he was revealing things that were not only years down the line but might not even make the cut because they were years down the line. This may be why Yamauchi always has a Sony handler or three at any event where he might speak to journalists, and Translator-san may act as another layer of protection; this is also why it was great when he came to speak to me, on his own and in English, about my MX-5!

Euhm didn't read beyond this post as in my opinion there is so much glorification of ignorance as a justification for 'lying' in this one.

Look, out of mechanical development experience I notice marketing always hears the awesome things neglects the bad things and fill with own expectations. Often times development points out why that's overambitious or positive.

When that happens and you keep making those claims, you are lying or at the very least misleading the public.

In this very instance PD very much knows what people mean by features. If a reporter asks about that they know what we mean with features. If they then willingly neglect our definition of a feature and says according to their definition it's the most feature rich game ever. Well then you kind of are lying or let's nuance it 'purposly misleading the public'.


So options:
1 translation issue
2 kaz is genuinly ignorant about what is possible within a timeframe
3 kaz is pruposly misleading the public.

Sorry to be so blunt and please do point out flaws in my way of thinking.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Euhm didn't read beyond this post as in my opinion there is so much glorification of ignorance as a justification for 'lying' in this one.

Look, out of mechanical development experience I notice marketing always hears the awesome things neglects the bad things and fill with own expectations. Often times development points out why that's overambitious or positive.

When that happens and you keep making those claims, you are lying or at the very least misleading the public.

In this very instance PD very much knows what people mean by features. If a reporter asks about that they know what we mean with features. If they then willingly neglect our definition of a feature and says according to their definition it's the most feature rich game ever. Well then you kind of are lying or let's nuance it 'purposly misleading the public'.


So options:
1 translation issue
2 kaz is genuinly ignorant about what is possible within a timeframe
3 kaz is pruposly misleading the public.

Sorry to be so blunt and please do point out flaws in my way of thinking.

You missed option 4. No translation issue and Kaz believe what he says.

 

[TheCracker]

So options:
1 translation issue
2 kaz is genuinly ignorant about what is possible within a timeframe
3 kaz is pruposly misleading the public.

Sorry to be so blunt and please do point out flaws in my way of thinking.

Or

4. Kaz and his team have a list of features they want to or are working on implementing, but time scale issues - whether that's pressure from Sony wanting PD to hit a certain release date, or technical problems getting a certain feature working properly or in a way they are happy with - mean the feature has to be dropped at some point along the line. Even if that feature has been reviled already in an early press release or hinted at in an interview.

 

[Coiler]

Its going on for a long game now Yamauchi is saying what he likes and not what is the truth. PD should had hire a PR guy like ten years ago.

 

[Imari]

Euhm didn't read beyond this post as in my opinion there is so much glorification of ignorance as a justification for 'lying' in this one.

Look, out of mechanical development experience I notice marketing always hears the awesome things neglects the bad things and fill with own expectations. Often times development points out why that's overambitious or positive.

When that happens and you keep making those claims, you are lying or at the very least misleading the public.

In this very instance PD very much knows what people mean by features. If a reporter asks about that they know what we mean with features. If they then willingly neglect our definition of a feature and says according to their definition it's the most feature rich game ever. Well then you kind of are lying or let's nuance it 'purposly misleading the public'.


So options:
1 translation issue
2 kaz is genuinly ignorant about what is possible within a timeframe
3 kaz is pruposly misleading the public.

Sorry to be so blunt and please do point out flaws in my way of thinking.

I always had the impression that when Kaz is on the promo trail he talks about the game that he has visualised in his mind, not the game that they're actually making. That's why there's such a disconnect between what he says and what we actually see. In his mind, he's designed a game where none of the features from past games have been dropped. Back in reality, the rest of the studio are working hard to make a game that's actually playable on this generation of consoles, and that means that it can't have everything and the kitchen sink. The hardware isn't powerful enough, and there isn't enough manpower.

I think it's unfortunate that it displays how out of touch with his team Kaz is. But we've sort of come to expect this since GT5. Kaz talked a whole lot of bollocks leading up to GT5, and a lot of what people took to be statements about the game turned out to be statements about what Kaz wished was in the game. I think we're in the same boat here. Kaz wishes that they didn't have to drop any features. I don't see any way that can possibly be true.

I don't think he's purposely lying, but either he's delusional or simply so out of touch with his team that he thinks that they're actually getting the impossible done.

 

[CodeCmdr]

I normally like hearing things directly from the development studio, but in the case of PD, Sony should manage PD's communications better, becaues Kaz is terrible at it. Kaz is way too optimistic. His statements build up hype, but they're vague, and when they turn out to be false or have been misunderstood, they cause a lot of disappointment.

A good example of a development studio which communicates well with their fans/customers is Blizzard, in particular Jeff K. from the Overwatch team. When he talks about features or changes that his team is working on, he generally only talks about things he is certain of. When he talks about long-term plans, he warns us that the plan may change and he doesn't oversell anything.

 

[Imari]

A good example of a development studio which communicates well with their fans/customers is Blizzard, in particular Jeff K. from the Overwatch team. When he talks about features or changes that his team is working on, he generally only talks about things he is certain of. When he talks about long-term plans, he warns us that the plan may change and he doesn't oversell anything.

I agree, Blizzard in general is excellent. While they have bad moments, in general they seem to try to communicate clearly with their fanbase, take on constructive criticism, and correct misinterpretations where necessary. They're also not afraid to say no when it's appropriate, and they're generally very clear when something is in progress or simply on a wishlist for future inclusion in the game.

Regardless of what they actually say, I really like how Blizzard approaches communication. Now that most of their games are either subscription, free to play or rely on keeping the competitive scene fresh, I guess they have an incentive to engage with their player base. But the same could be said of Polyphony trying to set up an e-sport, and so I think PD and Sony would do well to take a page out of Blizzard's book.

 

[Mr Tree]

You missed option 4. No translation issue and Kaz believe what he says.

That's option 2
kaz is genuinly ignorant about what is possible within a timeframe

@TheCracker same story he's genuinly ignorant about what is possible within a timeframe or he is lying as he is stating it will be in while they know due to external factors they will not make it.

Look I'm probably buying the game. I just don't feel like sugarcoating what's going on. The communication is abbysimal and are borderline lies. (Or other included options)

He might believe it all marketing peiple believe what they say. Just makes thel more ignorant because they must have been told this is not possible he jist refused to accept it.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Snip
kaz is genuinly ignorant about what is possible within a timeframe.

That's twice you've used that word.
I'm not sure you understand what it means.

Let me help.
"lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated."
synonyms: uneducated, unknowledgeable, untaught, unschooled, untutored, untrained, illiterate, unlettered, unlearned, unread, uninformed, unenlightened, unscholarly, unqualified, benighted, backward


The man has been the head of a company that has created top level games for over 2 decades.
I'm fairly certain he has some idea of how things work in the industry.


Armchair experts.
You gotta love 'em.

 

[NixxxoN]

Lol @ nothing has been dropped.

I wish it was the case.

I find pretty much impossible that the course maker is going to be in GT Sport, sadly

 

[Aphelion]

I just think that Kaz is too optimistic for his own good. I think it would be a good idea to hire a spokesperson, or teach translator San to tone some of his comments back

 

[Mr Tree]

That's twice you've used that word.
I'm not sure you understand what it means.

Let me help.
"lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated."
synonyms: uneducated, unknowledgeable, untaught, unschooled, untutored, untrained, illiterate, unlettered, unlearned, unread, uninformed, unenlightened, unscholarly, unqualified, benighted, backward


The man has been the head of a company that has created top level games for over 2 decades.
I'm fairly certain he has some idea of how things work in the industry.


Armchair experts.
You gotta love 'em.

It was one of 3 options. If he believes what he said and it is not possible isn't he ignorant? Or am I using the wrong word there? English is not my native language.

I truly do not believe he is ignorant. But I can not assert any possibility as fact as I can not know what Kaz knows and doesn't know, neither do I know what's in the game.

I hope this clarefies my possition on the subject. Because I am by no means an expert.

 

[Johnnypenso]

That's option 2
kaz is genuinly ignorant about what is possible within a timeframe

@TheCracker same story he's genuinly ignorant about what is possible within a timeframe or he is lying as he is stating it will be in while they know due to external factors they will not make it.

Look I'm probably buying the game. I just don't feel like sugarcoating what's going on. The communication is abbysimal and are borderline lies. (Or other included options)

He might believe it all marketing peiple believe what they say. Just makes thel more ignorant because they must have been told this is not possible he jist refused to accept it.

Nope, my response has nothing to do with ignorance. Making games, especially today, isn't like baking a cake. You don't set out with all the ingredients, put it together, and as long as you've done it properly it comes out like a tasty cake in the end. There are millions of lines of code to juggle, 200 personalities at work on the game, numerous Sony executives to deal with, not to mention dozens upon dozens of people in the automotive manufacturing field and auto racing, musicians etc. Kaz is the one man that has to balance all of these various balls and pop out a working and financially successful game at the other end. He's very good at what he does but he's an imperfect human being. He aims very high and sometimes falls short in some areas while knocking it out of the park in others. That's not ignorance, it's simply the imperfection of a human being that strives for perfection, genuinely believe that what he wants is possible and bumps up against the limitations of resources and hardware.

Ignorance literally means a lack of knowledge and I don't believe that is the case. There is no level of knowledge that can put all of these ingredients together with lofty targets and know for certain what will come out the other end unless you purposely limit your goals to that which is known to be attainable or has a relatively high probability of being achievable. Kaz chooses to push the limits of the hardware and software and he's in a zone that few others are ever in. Reaching all of your ultimate goals is never a certainty when you operate in his stratosphere.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

It was one of 3 options. If he believes what he said and it is not possible isn't he ignorant? Or am I using the wrong word there? English is not my native language.

I truly do not believe he is ignorant. But I can not assert any possibility as fact as I can not know what Kaz knows and doesn't know, neither do I know what's in the game.

I hope this clarefies my possition on the subject. Because I am by no means an expert.

Nope.
It was one of endless adjectives you could have used.

Internet anonymity is a wonderful thing.
Kazunori Yamauchi's experience in the industry is well documented, and for that matter, respected amongst his peers.
Yours on the other hand is questionable, to say the least.

Perhaps you missed the subtle irony in my previous post.
I suggest a mirror before you start throwing around terms such as "ignorance".

 

[Mr Tree]

Nope.
It was one of endless adjectives you could have used.

Internet anonymity is a wonderful thing.
Kazunori Yamauchi's experience in the industry is well documented, and for that matter, respected amongst his peers.
Yours on the other hand is questionable, to say the least.

Perhaps you missed the subtle irony in my previous post.
I suggest a mirror before you start throwing around terms such as "ignorance".

I did notice this irony. And again I do not believe he is ignorant it was posed as one of 3 options. 3 options that are very general and left a lot of leeway for nuance within them.

My personal opinion is that he purposly (and for good bussiness strategy reasons) talks about gts in a glorified way on the edge of lying (depending on the defenition of a feature). The exact reasons I do not know and I admit fully that I could be completely wrong depending on unknown circumstances or the actual content of the game.

I do not see what's so unreasonable about these options when looked at as a full post rather then single out one possibility and ignoring all the other.

Again I believe gts will be beautifull and Kaz will be a great part of that. Companies need visionaries. It's the beautifull start of an epic game. So by having an opinion on their marketing communications I do not in any way want to take away from all the other greatness of the gt legacy nor gt future.

Nope, my response has nothing to do with ignorance. Making games, especially today, isn't like baking a cake. You don't set out with all the ingredients, put it together, and as long as you've done it properly it comes out like a tasty cake in the end. There are millions of lines of code to juggle, 200 personalities at work on the game, numerous Sony executives to deal with, not to mention dozens upon dozens of people in the automotive manufacturing field and auto racing, musicians etc. Kaz is the one man that has to balance all of these various balls and pop out a working and financially successful game at the other end. He's very good at what he does but he's an imperfect human being. He aims very high and sometimes falls short in some areas while knocking it out of the park in others. That's not ignorance, it's simply the imperfection of a human being that strives for perfection, genuinely believe that what he wants is possible and bumps up against the limitations of resources and hardware.

Ignorance literally means a lack of knowledge and I don't believe that is the case. There is no level of knowledge that can put all of these ingredients together with lofty targets and know for certain what will come out the other end unless you purposely limit your goals to that which is known to be attainable or has a relatively high probability of being achievable. Kaz chooses to push the limits of the hardware and software and he's in a zone that few others are ever in. Reaching all of your ultimate goals is never a certainty when you operate in his stratosphere.

I must not understand something. If we'd be talking early development well I agree with you that thay is normt really ignorance.
If he at this point continues to say all features will be in, while I can read some people expect some features to not be in and he genuinly believes these features are in then he's ignorant to say the least.

If he knows they are not in there but continues to claim all features are there he is stretching the truth.

Or option 3 as I'm not a software developper at this stage in the game everything can still be added (before fall, all features where going to be in on release). So again please explain how he is not one of those 3 points (again there is a lot of nuance to be inserted in either of those 3 options but this close to release in essence they boil down to these)

 

[Earth]

Classic bait and switch from Kaz

Hes attempting to lure people in on the promise this is a 'full featured' GT game when its not.

Its looking likely this game will damage GT's reputation even further. Im not just a hater, I've preordered GTS, but I know what Im getting into, its an online based game and Im expecting nothing else. When people jump in and the offline mode is a bunch of glorified license tests, and half the cars are dupes, they're gonna be mad. Its just reality.

Not sure why they didnt have a proper career mode, even when they were given a 12 month delay. I mean, even the trashy career mode of the past couple of games would have been better then whats in GTS. Its not like PD's career modes took actual effort and time to create. I mean they literally copy/pasted 8/9 GT5 endurance races from GT4 and made the Indy 500 a sportscar race. Its obvious little thought is put into deciding race events and AI opponents in career mode, so what gives in chopping it? Surely it wasnt some time consuming task to randomly throw together some events in the past, so why not now?

The reason why a quality single player career is always important is because many people want controlled race environments. Lets say I want to race in the 24 hours of Le Mans. Thats not so easy to schedule online. Sometimes its nice to have the luxury of having a bunch of AI to race against whenever you want, and have the win be meaningful, as in prize credits and/or prize cars. A lack of a career mode means you are at the mercy of online players for a meaningful race. Most people wont put up with that. At least I dont think they will.