Why no one is talking about how ridiculously expensive the Jaguar XJ13 is?

[///M3]

I just put it down to artificially increasing the longevity and over time inflation will take over and the payouts will continue to increase over time.

Also when you factor in the amount and quality of cars you acquire through the menus for Free can see why selling was removed.

3 Ferraris for 3 fairly simple races for example.

But I’ve bought a few cars cause I like them and loads tuning here and there and have a garage of nearly 60-70 cars which if I could sell them all including the pre order bonus cars, one of which the 917 living legend I’d be able to pretty much buy all the top stuff considering the race credits earned to this point in menus and licenses.

I think the MTX are really there for people that a certain need or time constraint but economically in the real world and even in game they don’t make sense at all for the cost vs virtual currency.

 

[Johnnn]

To me the game is completely broken and they should be sued for it.

 

[///M3]

To me the game is completely broken and they should be sued for it.

Then put your money where your mouth is, hire a lawyer and start a class action suing Sony and PD as co conspirators who made you buy their game, and then once you did and you were unsatisfied you didn’t ask for your money back which I’m sure would not be a problem especially with the license tyre thing at the moment.

 

[Samus]

I think the speed at which you get money is fine.

If you do what? Grind the same boring dirt event over and over? Because otherwise I don't see how you can describe them as fine. 5K for a 10 lap race? That's fine?

This game is going to have more added to it, and over YEARS. Not months, not weeks, but years.

How do you know exactly? They've promised vague updates, nothing specific, no timeframe. What they've done in the past gives no promises for the future. This "Everything is fine because this and that will be in updates, I'm sure of it" line is getting tiresome. You don't know what exactly will be in updates any more than I do, so you can't use them as a defense of what we have in front of us in the here and now. What if they add 10 more events but they all pay out pathetically like the current ones? Then what? Back to the grindstone?

At least if you want the rare classics, which I do. The few people that have them will make them more special

There are plenty of ways to make cars special that don't involve putting them behind grinding the same event over and over for hours on end. That's not special, that's just asinine.

Put them behind a SKILL barrier, not a time one.

 

[///M3]

I guess it just boils down to 2 types of people.

Those who enjoy the variety of racing and cars and want to do as much as possible and those that want to optimise virtual prize credit accumulation.

It’s ok to be either but even if races gave more credits I get the feeling some people would still “grind” but just for more.

 

[Benny44]

If you do what? Grind the same boring dirt event over and over? Because otherwise I don't see how you can describe them as fine. 5K for a 10 lap race? That's fine?

How do you know exactly? They've promised vague updates, nothing specific, no timeframe. What they've done in the past gives no promises for the future. This "Everything is fine because this and that will be in updates, I'm sure of it" line is getting tiresome. You don't know what exactly will be in updates any more than I do, so you can't use them as a defense of what we have in front of us in the here and now. What if they add 10 more events but they all pay out pathetically like the current ones? Then what? Back to the grindstone?

There are plenty of ways to make cars special that don't involve putting them behind grinding the same event over and over for hours on end. That's not special, that's just asinine.

Put them behind a SKILL barrier, not a time one.

What's asinine is thinking you have to do the same race. That's only good if the ONLY thing you want is that one car. If you don't like just enjoying the game (ie; racing) then I'm not quite sure why you bought this. Just play the game how you want.

And how do I know? Because PD has always supported their games long after launch. Past actions are the best indicator for future actions

 

[ryzno]

Yeah, I have a feeling this game is really for a bit special people. They even defend the broken mechanics. For instance, yesterday I had fun for a hour on Bathurst with my Evo V. What I earned? Nothing because it's not Fisherman's ranch. It's so dumb game now...

I was trying to take you seriously buy you're just another ****ing troll. Go have fun with your arcadish Forza.

@Benny44 Leave the trolls to think they only have 5k races at 10 laps.

I'm done wasting my time.

 

[Johnnn]

Yeah, just to play how you want and have 10 cars from 400. Not scam at all.

GTS: 10 minute race with medium AI with N200 pays 30k
GT7: the same pays 8k

Hmmm.

I was trying to take you seriously buy you're just another ****ing troll. Go have fun with your arcadish Forza.

Why Forza? We have so many better options than scammy GT.

 

[///M3]

Yeah, just to play how you want and have 10 cars from 400. Not scam at all.

Dude I’ve done the cafe menus and by about menu 10 I had about 30+ cars at that point almost 10% of the cars in the game. I’ll go look in a moment but it must be knocking on nearly 80/90 now with no grinding.

Granted half of them aren’t cars I’m particularly on fire about but some are some I bought because I wanted them along the way.

So I must have the version of the game that isn’t like yours.

 

[Samus]

What's asinine is thinking you have to do the same race. That's only good if the ONLY thing you want is that one car. If you don't like just enjoying the game (ie; racing) then I'm not quite sure why you bought this. Just play the game how you want.

And how do I know? Because PD has always supported their games long after launch. Past actions are the best indicator for future actions

If you don't do that same race you earn credits at a snails pace. You claimed that the speed is fine. It's not, unless you want to spend the next 6 years playing every day to earn enough to buy all the cars, a clear goal of the game. Most people do not have that kind of commitment to put into a game and it shouldn't be expected.

The whole point is that there aren't enough unique races to do to earn credits. They gave us an event creator which SHOULD have been the answer to that problem but then they went and nerfed the payouts in those to ridiculous levels as well. If you spend your days doing custom races, having fun racing, it could be nearer 12 years to buy all the cars.

So the point is no matter what you do, it's going to take an insane amount of time to buy all the cars. It's not just about one car at all, it's about them all. All 250 million credits worth with another 74 cars left to price. Plus all the credits to modify them.

As for updates, like I said, you've no idea what they'll contain so you can't just use them as a defence of the current status.

Dude I’ve done the cafe menus and by about menu 10 I had about 30+ cars at that point almost 10% of the cars in the game. I’ll go look in a moment but it must be knocking on nearly 80/90 now with no grinding.

Granted half of them aren’t cars I’m particularly on fire about but some are some I bought because I wanted them along the way.

So I must have the version of the game that isn’t like yours.

Yes you'll have about 80 cars after the career is over, so another 340 to buy, and they're not cheap. So now what? There are no more new events left, so it's either grind out the same race(s) over and over for the best payouts, or play whatever races you like and earn all the cars by the time you're drawing your pension.

 

[///M3]

I guess it’s their game and they design it how they want for the reasons they want.

The next game won’t be out now for several years now so rush in a get it all now or have a game on your shelf with actual modern day longevity.

As I said earlier horses for courses but because you don’t like it doesn’t mean other people don’t.

Personally I don’t have problem, and by the end of each GT I always seem to have a huge amount of cars and money. That could be just me though.

 

[NotThePrez]

What's asinine is thinking you have to do the same race. That's only good if the ONLY thing you want is that one car. If you don't like just enjoying the game (ie; racing) then I'm not quite sure why you bought this.

It's asinine because there's a noticeable gap in earn rate between grinding Fishermans Ranch and,...doing pretty much anything else in the game for credits. Again, it doesn't help that cars can't be sold for extra cash, and online races, which GT7 is very clearly built with in mind, pay out squat in terms of credits.

Just play the game how you want.

That's a bit difficult to do at a certain point since a significant portion of the games progression system is tied around how extensive your car collection is. Not to mention that there might be those out there who have the most fun racing these classic, expensive cars that are only around for indeterminant periods of time, and are a chore to get through normal gameplay. That screws over those players in particular, and also mores the prospect of buying credit MTXs to circumvent that roadblock much more apparent (and, again, scummy).

And how do I know? Because PD has always supported their games long after launch.

That's not the same thing as 100% confirmation that PD will fix anything, least of which being the games economy, through updates. Hell, they could potentially even make the game worse-off in the long run through updates (GT5 & 6 say hi).

Past actions are the best indicator for future actions

The Need For Speed and Battlefield series say hi.

 

[ryzno]

Why Forza? We have so many better options than scammy GT.

You're the one who brought up Forza...
---------
Anyways.
Excuse me while I have fun. 900k after fully modding 4 Hondas and various other cars. Just unlocked fisherman's ranch and haven't grinded a single race.
Oh the credits are SOOOO hard to earn...

 

[///M3]

If you don't do that same race you earn credits at a snails pace. You claimed that the speed is fine. It's not, unless you want to spend the next 6 years playing every day to earn enough to buy all the cars, a clear goal of the game. Most people do not have that kind of commitment to put into a game and it shouldn't be expected.

The whole point is that there aren't enough unique races to do to earn credits. They gave us an event creator which SHOULD have been the answer to that problem but then they went and nerfed the payouts in those to ridiculous levels as well. If you spend your days doing custom races, having fun racing, it could be nearer 12 years to buy all the cars.

So the point is no matter what you do, it's going to take an insane amount of time to buy all the cars. It's not just about one car at all, it's about them all. All 250 million credits worth with another 74 cars left to price. Plus all the credits to modify them.

As for updates, like I said, you've no idea what they'll contain so you can't just use them as a defence of the current status.


Yes you'll have about 80 cars after the career is over, so another 340 to buy, and they're not cheap. So now what? There are no more new events left, so it's either grind out the same race(s) over and over for the best payouts, or play whatever races you like and earn all the cars by the time you're drawing your pension.

Just my view of the world.

I bought the game to drive cars, a selection of normal-ish and some exotica on world famous circuits and some of the fantasy ones I grew up with through the years.

The pleasure I get is the driving, the focus and concentration and being able to pick up and play for however long.

I do keep most of my cars in the games or end up rebuying sold ones eventually but the purpose TO ME and what I enjoy is feeling the difference between and integra type are and E30, the difference between the road Nissan GTR and the race one.

At the end of the day it’s their game, they set the currency, the economy and availability.

Nothing really left to say, other than in this game we all have a much better chance of owning an F50 or 155 touring car than we will ever get in real life. Small mercies I guess for some and cool for others.

 

[ryzno]

Yeah, just to play how you want and have 10 cars from 400. Not scam at all.

Obviously you haven't even tried to complete the game as is. You should have over 70 FREE cars.

 

[Samus]

I guess it’s their game and they design it how they want for the reasons they want.

The next game won’t be out now for several years now so rush in a get it all now or have a game on your shelf with actual modern day longevity.

As I said earlier horses for courses but because you don’t like it doesn’t mean other people don’t.

Personally I don’t have problem, and by the end of each GT I always seem to have a huge amount of cars and money. That could be just me though.

Nobody said it was about liking and not liking. I'm sure there are some masochists out there that will enjoy driving Fisherman's Ranch for 6 hours a day, lots of people find things fun that I find dull as dishwater. Like the millions that watch Eastenders every week.

The point is there needs to be a lot more variety of things to do to earn credits at a reasonable rate, like the old games. Longevity is one thing, but there has to be a limit. I'm sure you'd have an issue if the payouts were so low that it'd take you 25 years to earn all the cars you want to drive, so where is the limit for you?

Who knows, maybe future updates WILL address this and all of this discussion will become moot. But they also might not, none of us know, so it's fair to discuss what we have right now, because hopefully it WILL have an effect on what PD do next. That's primarily why we're saying this. If you don't say anything, there is less chance of change. That's true of anything in life. You don't get anywhere without making your voice heard.

Look at the bug fixes they did in the first patch, would they have found all of those if people didn't highlight them? Maybe not. So if we do our best to highlight this, then hopefully future updates will give us what we want and everyone will be happy.

I'm sure you wouldn't be upset if they added another 20 events, 100 races, that paid out at the same rate or better as Fishermans Ranch grinding, would you? That's all we want. Or custom event payouts that match the rate of payouts of those fixed events.

Nothing really left to say, other than in this game we all have a much better chance of owning an F50 or 155 touring car than we will ever get in real life. Small mercies I guess for some and cool for others.

Which is the point. This is a video game for fun, for us to act out our fantasies. It's not a life simulator. None of us here are going to get to drive those cars on tracks around the world in real life, so we want it to be more attainable in a video game. Not just a better chance, or something we can do after years of effort.

 

[NotThePrez]

At the end of the day it’s their game, they set the currency, the economy and availability.

This is quite true, but it doesn't mean that questionable game design and an economy system designed to encourage engagement in other predatory systems shouldn't be called out when they appear. With all due respect, this is a game made for potentially millions of people, not just for you.

Plus, if all you want out of the game is to just drive a small selection of cars on a handful of track, than PD adjusting the economy so that it's actually reasonable for everyone else who plays wouldn't effect you at all, right?

 

[///M3]

Nobody said it was about liking and not liking. I'm sure there are some masochists out there that will enjoy driving Fisherman's Ranch for 6 hours a day, lots of people find things fun that I find dull as dishwater. Like the millions that watch Eastenders every week.

The point is there needs to be a lot more variety of things to do to earn credits at a reasonable rate, like the old games. Longevity is one thing, but there has to be a limit. I'm sure you'd have an issue if the payouts were so low that it'd take you 25 years to earn all the cars you want to drive, so where is the limit for you?

Who knows, maybe future updates WILL address this and all of this discussion will become moot. But they also might not, none of us know, so it's fair to discuss what we have right now, because hopefully it WILL have an effect on what PD do next.

Look at the bug fixes they did in the first patch, would they have found all of those if people didn't highlight them? Maybe not. So if we do our best to highlight this, then hopefully future updates will give us what we want and everyone will be happy.

I'm sure you wouldn't be upset if they added another 20 events, 100 races, that paid out at the same rate or better as Fishermans Ranch grinding, would you? That's all we want. Or custom event payouts that match the rate of payouts of those fixed events.

Ok.

I mean I guess they thought it was reasonable for balance purposes when they looked at what the play base and over all player balances will be in 4/5 years?

I mean they nerfed custom race payouts I assume to stop people gaming the system after 7 days?

Who knows. I’m out on this topic now. It’s getting old for a 7 day old pre dlc game.

If I’m 6 months and you haven’t got your moneys worth then I’m all for talking about this again. But at the end of the day we are just talking about buying virtual cars, in a game meant to have a life span of years.

This is quite true, but it doesn't mean that questionable game design and an economy system designed to encourage engagement in other predatory systems shouldn't be called out when they appear. With all due respect, this is a game made for potentially millions of people, not just for you.

Plus, if all you want out of the game is to just drive a small selection of cars on a handful of track, than PD adjusting the economy so that it's actually reasonable for everyone else who plays wouldn't effect you at all, right?

It’s a game designed to last years.

So either pile in on the first week or stick with it; up to you.

Also I guess they want to get ahead on the cars coming in to the game rather than drip feed a car here and there?

I don’t know.

Anyways, said all I got to say.

 

[Tired Tyres]

It’s a game designed to last years.

So either pile in on the first week or stick with it; up to you.

Also I guess they want to get ahead on the cars coming in to the game rather than drip feed a car here and there?

I don’t know.

Anyways, said all I got to say.

It's a game designed to last until the next one. Development will have been started already.

 

[Samus]

I mean they nerfed custom race payouts I assume to stop people gaming the system after 7 days?

Nobody wants all the cars in 7 days though. The point is with the current payouts of custom races we're looking at more like 7 years. That is not reasonable, it needs to be something in between, and again, that's why we're highlighting it now. If we don't, PD are far less likely to realise that we aren't happy with it.

Trust me, I'm not constantly bringing this up because I want to win points in online discussions. It's a video game forum that I waste time on when I'm not working, I really don't care, and I certainly don't talk about this stuff in person with any actual humans.

I'm bringing it up in the hope PD take notice, we know they do browse this forum.

If there were no posts or threads with people showing their issues with the current system, would they change it? Surely less likely. They've made countless changes over the years that align with what people are saying here and across the wider internet.

in a game meant to have a life span of years.

Nobody has said that though, that's just what you personally want to get out of it. Most people don't. When you buy the latest Tomb Raider game, the latest Horizon game, whatever, are they intended to last for years until the next one comes out in 3+ years? No, they're a 10-150 hour experience that can last a few weeks at the most, if you only play a few hours a day.

Sure, online persistent MMO type games are different and are intended to last for years, but GT7 is not promoted as a game of that type. You need constant, big content refreshes for games of that type to last and keep people engaged and PD have never delivered that, because they never promised that.

 

[///M3]

Nobody wants all the cars in 7 days though. The point is with the current payouts of custom races we're looking at more like 7 years. That is not reasonable, it needs to be something in between, and again, that's why we're highlighting it now. If we don't, PD are far less likely to realise that we aren't happy with it.

Trust me, I'm not constantly bringing this up because I want to win points in online discussions. It's a video game forum that I waste time on when I'm not working, I really don't care, and I certainly don't talk about this stuff in person with any actual humans.

I'm bringing it up in the hope PD take notice, we know they do browse this forum.

If there were no posts or threads with people showing their issues with the current system, would they change it? Surely less likely. They've made countless changes over the years that align with what people are saying here and across the wider internet.

Nobody has said that though, that's just what you personally want to get out of it. Most people don't. When you buy the latest Tomb Raider game, the latest Horizon game, whatever, are they intended to last for years until the next one comes out in 3+ years? No, they're a 10-150 hour experience that can last a few weeks at the most, if you only play a few hours a day.

Sure, online persistent MMO type games are different and are intended to last for years, but GT7 is not promoted as a game of that type. You need constant, big content refreshes for games of that type to last and keep people engaged and PD have never delivered that, because they never promised that.

“Most people”

Yet this thread on a forum specifically not for “most” people is some how indicative of the world outside of our bubble.

For a massive amount of people this will be their first or second GT game….

So some perspective needs to be taken before generalising and also over stating our ability to speak for the other 90 million or so people who will buy the game and be content enough or “committed” enough to seek out a forum and be part of the community.

I’ve been on here for over 16 years….

 

[Samus]

“Most people”

Yet this thread on a forum specifically not for “most” people is some how indicative of the world outside of our bubble.

For a massive amount of people this will be their first or second GT game….

So some perspective needs to be taken before generalising and also over stating our ability to speak for the other 90 million or so people who will buy the game and be content enough or “committed” enough to seek out a forum and be part of the community.

I’ve been on here for over 16 years….

I'm not really sure what you're getting at to be honest. You only have to look at trophy stats to see that most people do not play games for years, or even long enough to finish everything. So you don't think those people will want to earn cars faster, so that they can drive them before they're done with the game after a few weeks? If hardcore players here are complaining, then casual players are absolutely going to be having the same issue.

Even people that do finish everything, people here, don't play the game for years. I've completed all previous GT games except 6&S because I got bored of the race format, I know for certain I was not still constantly playing the last one when the next one came out. There are hundreds of games to play in the world, I don't want to play just one for years so I can experience everything is has to offer and those that do are definitely in the minority, even here.

Also, 90 million? You're a bit off there, more like 10-15million. I'm not speaking for them either, I'm speaking for me. Not sure where you got the idea I was. I just said that most people do not play games like this for years, of which their is plenty of factual evidence.

 

[///M3]

Hey each to their own.

I get your opinion, I just don’t share it.

With regards to the sales where do you think the growth comes from if it’s not new players playing the game? It didn’t have trophies when I started playing it….

 

[Samus]

Hey each to their own.

I get your opinion, I just don’t share it.

With regards to the sales where do you think the growth comes from if it’s not new players playing the game? It didn’t have trophies when I started playing it….

View attachment 1123115

What specifically don't you share my opinion on?

Also that's 80 million total across all the series, it's not 80 million unique different people. The series actually hasn't grown that much, because it started on such a huge scale.

GT1 - 10.85
GT2 - 9.37
GT3 - 14.89
GT4 - 11.76
GT5 - 11.95
GT6 - 5.2
GTS - Unknown, but estimated around 10.

 

[Johnnn]

You're the one who brought up Forza...
---------
Anyways.
Excuse me while I have fun. 900k after fully modding 4 Hondas and various other cars. Just unlocked fisherman's ranch and haven't grinded a single race.
Oh the credits are SOOOO hard to earn...
View attachment 1123105

Because it's the direct competition without broken economy. When they wanted microtransactions, it was a huge problem. They never tried that scam again. It's probably illegal in some country already.

It's OK, if you find it fun, most normal people don't.

Obviously you haven't even tried to complete the game as is. You should have over 70 FREE cars.

What is free? I paid 100 euro for the ***** game. Free cars are in Horizon every month, completely new cars. In-game cars are mine but I could do some races for them... but I can't because there are no races. In the real racing simulator...

 

[ryzno]

Whatever. Have fun complaining.

 

[talhaONE]

You're the one who brought up Forza...
---------
Anyways.
Excuse me while I have fun. 900k after fully modding 4 Hondas and various other cars. Just unlocked fisherman's ranch and haven't grinded a single race.
Oh the credits are SOOOO hard to earn...
View attachment 1123105

900k wont buy you anything.

 

[Samus]

You're the one who brought up Forza...
---------
Anyways.
Excuse me while I have fun. 900k after fully modding 4 Hondas and various other cars. Just unlocked fisherman's ranch and haven't grinded a single race.
Oh the credits are SOOOO hard to earn...
View attachment 1123105

Nobody said hard. They said boring and time consuming. You can't tell me honestly that you enjoy pounding around Fisherman's Ranch time after time. Even doing that, the least time consuming method, it's STILL going to take you hundreds of hours to buy the cars and modify them.

900K is nothing when you're going to need somewhere around 300 Million if you want to experience everything in the game.

 

[///M3]

What specifically don't you share my opinion on?

Also that's 80 million total across all the series, it's not 80 million unique different people. The series actually hasn't grown that much, because it started on such a huge scale.

GT1 - 10.85
GT2 - 9.37
GT3 - 14.89
GT4 - 11.76
GT5 - 11.95
GT6 - 5.2
GTS - Unknown, but estimated around 10.

I don’t share your opinion, because it wouldn’t be my opinion if I had yours.

Attrition bud attrition. The numbers creep up because the volume of people leave and new are added.

Now if you imagine this forum which is the largest with players who play most if not all of the racing games some spanning decades to some new players who only know forza, PC etc.

Anyways, I don’t need the debate because I really don’t care about how you use your game or what it does for you.

Mine is enough for me, I don’t need your opinions to help me play my game, I entertain a certain level of healthy debate but if you can’t agree we disagree then I’m not bothered about entering circular arguements about a game we can’t even control…..

For me I’m gonna spend less time here and more time driving. It’s better for the soul.

 

[ryzno]

900k wont buy you anything.

Just bought 2 Ferraris to skip book 38 and have change left over lol.
Try again.