Will GT7 Get Left behind when Forza Motorsports 8 hits the Market?

[BoneSawTX]

Many people have tried to declare Gran Turismo dead since GT4.

Well GT5 was like Weekend at Bernie's for me, went through the motions before i realized it was lifeless and jumped ship to FM4.

 

[ImaRobot]

You highlight that tribal comment as if it means something, when I plainly said I want FM to be amazing, and the only points I made are based in reality. Sorry that stating things that are real mean that I'm "tribal". If you had only read what you did without bias you would have known that for yourself.

The only points you've made were of an opinion based off what seems to be hearsay from people with like minded opinions as yourself, which contained very little facts based in reality like you're trying to sell it. I didn't get into the Gran Turismo Series before all the others because of automotive/racing history. I got into it because it had cars racing around a track. Same for Forza, and hell, even Need for Speed. So if you wanted to sell it as an opinion, you should probably stay away from saying things like:

FM has had a long history of making lack-luster racing games that attract casual players who don't really care about the bigger picture of automotive/racing history and culture and bear no threat to GT.

So far all I've got is "Forza good because I like it"... and that's just fine, but it means nothing in the scope of what I said.

The ironic part being that you basically did just that.

I said they attract casual players that don't care as much about car culture,

Interesting, because Gran Turismo attracted me in the exact same way. Both games attract the same playerbase and their specific approaches dont change that. They're literally aimed at the casual playerbase, as they're the ones driving the sales.

 

[jergto]

I don't mind it but I can see how people could be disinterested in it.

To me its useless pop culture information. Like PD really invested putting this crap in the game? Of all the things they could have spent time on, they do this? They should have put this energy towards more cars, hell, newer cars, American cars. Shame really.

 

[JMR450]

To me its useless pop culture information. Like PD really invested putting this crap in the game? Of all the things they could have spent time on, they do this? They should have put this energy towards more cars, hell, newer cars, American cars. Shame really.

That's a fair point. To me it adds to the presentation they are trying to do and they have done that on a few of the games but I see your point. It is time spent after all and when the content is so disappointing, window dressing like that seems misguided.

 

[Famine]

To me its useless pop culture information.

It's there to contextualise the histories of the cars and brands in the game. And given that it goes back to 1886, not entirely "pop culture".

They should have put this energy towards more cars, hell, newer cars, American cars.

The guys who source, licence, and model cars are not the same guys who pull 30-word snippets off Wikipedia to show that the C5-generation Corvette arrived the same year we cloned our first mammal.

 

[jergto]

It's there to contextualise the histories of the cars and brands in the game. And given that it goes back to 1886, not entirely "pop culture".

Negative, some of the references have absolutely nothing to do with cars or brands. I haven't played since they got rid of the Tomahawk glitch, but from what I remember there was a Spice Girls reference. When I play again Ill take some pics of things that have no correlation with cars.

I mean we can say SG are humans and humans invented cars so yea they can be there. Next thing you know there's a news update about running and since it gets your heart racing, it has to do with racing too. LOL

The guys who source, licence, and model cars are not the same guys who pull 30-word snippets off Wikipedia to show that the C5-generation Corvette arrived the same year we cloned our first mammal.

The C5 has been in every iteration of the game now except GT7 and maybe GT sport? I havent played GT sport, but really to go from C5 to non relevant less racing history C4? Atrocious. Its like PD choosing to make the Prius a premium car before the MK IV Supra in GT5 and 6. Atrocious.

 

[Famine]

Negative, some of the references have absolutely nothing to do with cars or brands.

Quite, but you've missed the point entirely.

The references which "have absolutely nothing to do with cars or brands" are there to contextualise the ones that do. As with my previous example, the Dolly the Sheep one is about 1996. The C5 Corvette also came out in 1996. The idea is that you then get a historical context for the time when the C5 Corvette came out: the same time we first cloned a mammal.

That is the purpose of what you call "pop culture" references. It's "here's an interesting thing that happened in human history at about the same time this car came out or this automotive brand did a thing".

Which, as I said originally, contextualises the histories of the cars and brands in the game.

The C5 has been in every iteration of the game now except GT7 and maybe GT sport? I havent played GT sport, but really to go from C5 to non relevant less racing history C4? Atrocious. Its like PD choosing to make the Prius a premium car before the MK IV Supra in GT5 and 6. Atrocious.

This... doesn't appear to be related to what I said at all.

 

[05XR8]

Why worry about the C4 and C5? There’s an actual C7 ZR-1 in this game. Couple years late for this 2022 game, but it’s a new car from the new car lacking car list.

PD get slack for the standard car thing and padding car numbers, but we had choices. Players could choose a Monaro or GTO. A Roadster or Miata. Speedster or VX220.
The Levin/Sprinter and 86/BRZ, are all we have.

At this point, may as well edit the thread title: “What would you like to see in GT8?”.

 

[jergto]

Quite, but you've missed the point entirely.

The references which "have absolutely nothing to do with cars or brands" are there to contextualise the ones that do. As with my previous example, the Dolly the Sheep one is about 1996. The C5 Corvette also came out in 1996. The idea is that you then get a historical context for the time when the C5 Corvette came out: the same time we first cloned a mammal.

That is the purpose of what you call "pop culture" references. It's "here's an interesting thing that happened in human history at about the same time this car came out or this automotive brand did a thing".

Which, as I said originally, contextualises the histories of the cars and brands in the game.

This... doesn't appear to be related to what I said at all.

I know, my main gripe is why spend time and resources on these things? But then again its PD, they have always done questionable things, to me it started when they chose to premium the prius before a gen iv supra. Them using spice girls or first cloned sheep to tie into to cars is just another one of those questionable things, like WHY?

 

[McLaren]

Ha ha, it's not a backtrack in any way. Everything on any forum is an opinion, some of that can be backed with fact, but since I wasn't specifically addressing something he said, I thought it was pretty obvious that it was my opinion. I even separated it into it's own paragraph as well. One doesn't need to say things like "I think" or "my position is" and slap you in the face with the fact that a statement is their opinion for it to be one.

You highlight that tribal comment as if it means something, when I plainly said I want FM to be amazing, and the only points I made are based in reality. Sorry that stating things that are real mean that I'm "tribal". If you had only read what you did without bias you would have known that for yourself.

You repeatedly seem to go back and forth on whether you're just stating opinions or if you're posting facts....

But, your only arguments have been: Forza has a "bad" online player base, therefore that proves Forza doesn't really have players who care about racing. And Forza doesn't go as in-depth on the history of each car, therefore Forza doesn't care about car culture the way PD does.

These aren't "based in reality" like you think they are. Your claims about the player base are just that, claims. I've raced online in Forza enough; seems to be a fairly equal representation of my time in other racing games. Most people are there to race, but there's always a possibility of bad apples. I've seen posts & threads on this forum over the years highlighting bad apples in GT games, but that's just online racing community in a nutshell, imo. Certainly isn't grounds for me start questioning the developer on whether they fully love or want people to love cars/racing.

The repeated point about PD providing "depth & history" doesn't mean much, either. If anything, T10/PG's desire to include an incredibly diverse arrangement of cars seems to prove they likely want people to expand & play with all sorts of vehicles. So, all I see are 2 different approaches to get their player based enthused about automobiles. But, deciding this would be one of your talking points to hold over another developer's head (even though, the history exerts are likely something a lot of players won't read or read once & never again) comes across as Samus said: tribalism.

I'm bowing out, but feel free to refute with your own opinion... or facts, whichever you decide your statements are this time around. ✌️

 

[TokoTurismo]

I think a few of you guys need to have a Snickers bar.

You're arguing about subjective traits.

It's like fighting about topics such as "who likes ham AND pineapple on a pizza" or "chocolate and peanut butter go great together".

I guess I don't see the value in such a debate.

Offtopic but, I actually ham and pineapple on my pizzas. 😃 Peanut butter and chocolate...hmmm, there is Resee, so I like it too (sometimes. 😋) lol.

 

[Gatomaq]

I started with Gran Turismo at early 2000's and I was always attached to polyphony and GT series since GT2.
After the GT6 I was waiting for the GT7, instead polyphony release the GT Sports. Really I was not interested in that one.
One of the best things about Gran Turismo is the street cars, that cars who almost anybody can drive in a real life.
I was so dissapointed about the new GT Sport and I decided make the jump and go to Forza Motorsport 6 and a Xbox.
The car dealership was much m better than Gran Turismo with some classics that I really love, like de F355, the Lancia037 and other great classics never seen in a GT series.
Very happy at the first week, but quickly I started to get bored, I don't know, is difficult to explain but FM6 doesn't give me the same experience than GT. With GT I spent hours and hours playing, with the Forza, just and hour and get tired. Maybe is because was very easy to make money and after 7 days playing I already have all the cars what I want and I lost interest
After that I bought the FM7 and give a second time and that was a huge dissapointment. That terrible homologation system, and NO TOYOTAS. I lost interest in the game at the second day.
3 month ago when polyphony release the GT7 was the moment when I decided to go back to Sony, I bought a new PS5 and I'm enjoying GT7 more than any Forza. Now I know my place is here. Even even GT7 lack for a lot of classic cars what I love, in my opinion is much more enjoyable, have something special, something like soul. You can feel that is a game made by people who really love cars. I can't explain it but I feel everytime when I'm playing GT
Forza Motorsport was like a mistress, just an affair. I'm back at GT home now.
Not interested at all in the FM8

 

[engrmariano]

just look at the engagements GT has over Forza, Forza is barely .3M or 300k...

GT7 alone has more than both entire Forza's main thread...

 

[05XR8]

just look at the engagements GT has over Forza, Forza is barely .3M or 300k...
View attachment 1161069

GT7 alone has more than both entire Forza's main thread...
View attachment 1161070

That’s just for this community. What about people not on social media? How many millions are playing or not playing GT or Forza?

 

[Pizzicato1985]

If FM8 proves to be a spectacular game, it will leave GT7 behind.

This would be the best thing that could happen to GT. They've been the top-dog on console since '97 and have never really had any competition. IF FM8 drops with a good physics engine, massive car/track list, a decent career mode with copious content then GT7 will just look like a turd in comparison. That's the only way PD is ever going to try to innovate since as it currently stands they can put out mediocrity, give some half-assed post-launch support and it sells millions of copies on nostalgia alone, quality be damned.

PD needs to be humbled/humiliated for the sake of the franchise.

 

[synon]

Hi to all

Let me start saying by, I have bin playing Gran Turismo from ps1. I have always supported polyphony digital.

With all the controversy around Gran Turismo 7 and Lack of Some features our community has asked for, I’m starting to feel that when Forza motorsport seven does come out in 2023 it will annihilate Gran Turismo, I think polyphony Digital need to wake up and start giving us some good content and features to the game before it comes out. Please let me know what you guys all think, I have never supported turned 10 and the Forza motorsports or Xbox for That matter but just looking at the trailer this week and seeing some Acura dpi and Upgraded GT3 And crazy realistic engine bays I can just turn the way. But the key will be the driving do we really think that turn 10 has succeeded???

We only have limited information about Forza at present. Why not wait a bit before making predictions like that.

 

[FastFurious77]

T10 have never got the feeling of driving a car quite correct. The physics were just terrible, cars seem lifeless, especially on the Xbox controller. And I have bought every Forza horizon since 2, and at least two Forza Motorsports.

I didn't like the rewind function although it is optional and YES you can turn it off I know. BUT the career was never quite captivating enough, and the online multiplayer element not immersive enough. You have a real sense of engagement with the other players in GT.

When it comes to customisation, Forza has always been ahead over GT. Here T10 get a thumbs up. It's not perfect and even more could be done here aswell. The ability to engine swap, change drivetrain were fun. I especially love the option to choose from multiple size tyre widths.

The body kits were also started and slowly improved in each iteration of the Forza games. I aren't sure how many of the GT playerbase are into modding features, indeed i have lost count of how many drag racing, car shows etc.. lobbies I have come across.

So there is a community out there that would surely love these features. The game is not just all about driving purists and serious racing. Most of my time is spent trying to recreate unique cars. I don't race for serious or money. I just love free driving.

I really think GT are missing the boat though and in all honesty, T10 have missed big boat load of modding opportunities having started it all, which somehow has led to T10 becoming stagnant with little improvement or little new modding features added.

If I was to be leading the game features position at PD I would be looking at instant license partnerships with car manufacturers and cars not in the game and also for aftermarket bodykits. I would be adding breakthrough modding features.

The ability to decorate you wheels with paints in details, wheel nuts, brake pads. I would allow many different tyre widths and treads aswell as sizes like in Forza. I would be adding multiple light kits, different mirror options, aswell as different hoods. There would be options for under the car lighting.

Every part of the car would finally be paintable. Interior trim options and custom boost guages. I would fix the horrible cockpit 3D camera so when you look down and around you see the whole inside of the car instead of down stick activating rear view camera.

Most of all, I would be allowing a comprehensive paintshop and allow more parts of cars to be painted as basic and a livery editor that finally works and is accurate to degrees and positioning.

I would add the ability to engine swap any car easily with every bit of research done into what is possible with any car.. including drivetrain changes. More aftermarket licenses with modding parts for car engines. More parts of the car and engine allowed to be upgraded.

I would finally allow the limits to be lifted to a degree with the amount of power able to fit into the smallest cars. I would allow carbon fibre and normal paint parts to be mixed. Hood, fender, vents, scoops to be added.

I would have more work outsourcing to other companies or bring on house and expand more employees to get the game features, car list done faster. I would have someone engage with the playerbase through a dedicated medium.

These are all things I wish PD would improve. Get ahead of times, not behind. Cast away old concepts and ideas. Out with the old in with the new.

 

[Samus]

just look at the engagements GT has over Forza, Forza is barely .3M or 300k...
View attachment 1161069

GT7 alone has more than both entire Forza's main thread...
View attachment 1161070

On a dedicated Gran Turismo website that's been around 20 years? When there are other, more dedicated Forza forums online?

 

[Terronium-12]

just look at the engagements GT has over Forza, Forza is barely .3M or 300k...
View attachment 1161069

GT7 alone has more than both entire Forza's main thread...
View attachment 1161070

Did...did you really just use metrics for a community website named Gran Turismo Planet to say that the GT threads have a higher participation average than non-GT threads?

Well, that's just shocking.

 

[HyperSpeeder]

I've played the 3 Forza Motorsports on the Xbox One and used to think little of GT, having had little experience with the franchise. Once I played GTS... It clicked. I was home. I was playing a game that spoke to me. I understood Kaz's vision. GT7 should become vastly superior to GTS during its lifetime.

Forza Motorsport on the other hand was downgraded to the level of a Forza Horizon track expansion. It's become the lesser priority of Microsoft compared to the younger game. It exists to support Horizon. Everything we saw in that trailer is not necessary in Forza Motorsport, it was created in preparation for FH6. It also lacks purpose and substance.

Even when it comes to content, Forza may have a "diverse" car list, but it just feels bloated. Nothing feels special. Many cars are there for the sake of being there. They're filler, with filler tuning parts. They drive the same. They sound the same.

Even during GT's worst times and FM's best, FM was never a success. I don't see it overtaking GT now.

 

[Samus]

Everything we saw in that trailer is not necessary in Forza Motorsport

Really? Tracks and cars seem pretty necessary in a racing game.

It also lacks purpose and substance.

The purpose seemed to be showing off a racing game to me.

 

[Terronium-12]

I've played the 3 Forza Motorsports on the Xbox One and used to think little of GT, having had little experience with the franchise. Once I played GTS... It clicked. I was home. I was playing a game that spoke to me. I understood Kaz's vision. GT7 should become vastly superior to GTS during its lifetime.

Forza Motorsport on the other hand was downgraded to the level of a Forza Horizon track expansion. It's become the lesser priority of Microsoft compared to the younger game. It exists to support Horizon. Everything we saw in that trailer is not necessary in Forza Motorsport, it was created in preparation for FH6. It also lacks purpose and substance.

Even when it comes to content, Forza may have a "diverse" car list, but it just feels bloated. Nothing feels special. Many cars are there for the sake of being there. They're filler, with filler tuning parts. They drive the same. They sound the same.

Even during GT's worst times and FM's best, FM was never a success. I don't see it overtaking GT now.

I have to ask you a genuine question and I want a sincere answer: do you ever get tired of being wrong? I don't mean having a different opinion to others, I mean being categorically wrong about something. Either you're purposely expressing yourself in a way that invites inflammatory responses (not the wisest decision for several reasons) or you simply don't know how to express yourself without being needlessly confrontational.

Let's have a look.

Forza Motorsport on the other hand was downgraded to the level of a Forza Horizon track expansion. It's become the lesser priority of Microsoft compared to the younger game.

To what are you referring to with this? I can't think of anything off the top of my head that fits this description.

It exists to support Horizon.

No, it exists as a parallel to Horizon. Or rather, Horizon exists as a parallel to Motorsport. If you mean the features one innovates for the franchise, while the other improves upon it — yes, that's typically how things when sibling games are developed using the same engine with assets moving between the two.

Everything we saw in that trailer is not necessary in Forza Motorsport, it was created in preparation for FH6.

So, racing cars racing on a racing circuit isn't necessary in Forza Motorsport? Dynamic ToD, weather, tire compounds, etc, etc — all useless? And before you think about saying "I meant this, this and this!", you said everything. It's right there in the quote, verbatim.

It also lacks purpose and substance.

See above.

Even when it comes to content, Forza may have a "diverse" car list, but it just feels bloated. Nothing feels special. Many cars are there for the sake of being there. They're filler, with filler tuning parts. They drive the same. They sound the same.

There is absolutely no way you're saying this in this subforum for a game that launched in March with a straight face. There's no way.

Also, it's completely false and contradictory because I guarantee you the same things you're referring to as bloat in FM would be championed as "tons of content" in GT.

 

[Techlet]

Even when it comes to content, Forza may have a "diverse" car list, but it just feels bloated. Nothing feels special. Many cars are there for the sake of being there. They're filler, with filler tuning parts.

The exact same can be said for many of the cars in GT7.

 

[Famine]

On a dedicated Gran Turismo website that's been around 20 years?

We were, but we aren't. I mean, we're probably the de facto global GT community, but we're not dedicated to GT any more.

That said, as the de facto global GT community, not a big surprise to see our GT forums comfortably outstripping everything else.

When there are other, more dedicated Forza forums online?

Check out forzaplanet.net - although I hear the site admin there is a bit of a sphincter...

 

[Silver Arrows]

I have to ask you a genuine question and I want a sincere answer: do you ever get tired of being wrong? I don't mean having a different opinion to others, I mean being categorically wrong about something. Either you're purposely expressing yourself in a way that invites inflammatory responses (not the wisest decision for several reasons) or you simply don't know how to express yourself without being needlessly confrontational.

To be quite brutal and frank, I think he's someone who believes his opinions are always right, and those who speak differently (especially when they have more knowledge then he does on the subject, considering how consistently he has lied about Forza Horizon specifically, but also on Motorsport, in this case) he ignores, or tries to deflect.

That, or he's legitimately a troll. Which would at least be admirable if he wasn't doing the internet punk ass move of never holding any actual convictions in his trolling.

 

[Silver Arrows]

Even when it comes to content, Forza may have a "diverse" car list, but it just feels bloated. Nothing feels special. Many cars are there for the sake of being there. They're filler, with filler tuning parts. They drive the same. They sound the same.

There's also something deliciously ironic about saying this, with your whole chest, when GT7's car list is 97% the cars that were in GT Sport with the rest of the new cars added being nostalgic pandering, and this also applicable to the track list too.

If that isn't bloated, 'not special feeling' enough, and filler enough, then what is?

 

[Zero2Oblivion]

its PD, they have always done questionable things, to me...

Out of context quote for the win!

 

[Remy Zero]

It really depends, and I will not be surprised if this happens. So far GT7 has been a really rubbish product. Many fans are frustrated and losing patience with the developers.

Just remember once upon a time, Nokia were the leaders in mobile phone. And then we all know what happened. Personally, if PD doesn't pull up their socks, i do hope this will happen to them and teach them a lesson.

 

[Imari]

Even during GT's worst times and FM's best, FM was never a success.

In what sense is a franchise coming into it's 8th entry over 17 years never a success? Is it normal for games that have never been a success get that many sequels as well as spin-off franchises? Because that seems a little odd to me.

 

[BrunusCL82]

IMO, Asseto Corsa 2 is more likely to be GT7's biggest competitor. By The way, Competizione has an enviable cast of real race tracks, even more so now that they will add COTA, Watkins Glen and Indianapolis.