Will KY/PD be able to deliver on the expectations ?

[SuperCobraJet]

Like probably most everyone else at GTP, I've been riding the GT5 anticipatory expectational roller coaster these past few months to the point of ad nauseam. I'm beginning to become increasingly concerned that GT5 may be falling victim to "Too much to too many". Add in "too long" and you have a formula for "unsatisfiable expectation".

Personally I was not impressed with the time trial demo. Granted it wasn't a lot to judge on, but I'm questioning myself as to whether or not my expectation is already too high.

With the addition of NASCAR and WRC you have two venues of racing that in the past and rightfully so, have been and can be a full racing game each.

Combine that with the expansion of the GT portion and the generational console jump and you have a extremely tall order.
Kaz even admits the depth of the game is "dizzying".

While all of it sounds great, the wait of 5+ years made more unbearable by Sony's BS, has taken its toll. Many have become repeatedly dissapointed, disconcerted, and despondent, to the point of disinterest. I can't blame them.
Over five years is forever in today's world and an eternity in the world of video game sequels.

Accordingly this is alienating many of the faithful. Some by bait and switch and others by the likelyhood of unsatisfiable expectation.

I'm beginning to wonder if it would have been much more advantages all around if they released GT5 separate from at least NASCAR . Rally has been a part of past GTs. I guess for projected sales purposes they have put all their eggs in the Gran Turismo basket.

Oh well, If anyone can do it, its KY/PD and I hope they can.
I can't begin to imagine the kind of stress he must be under.
With more time, you can continue to work on the game, but the expectation bar continues to rise.
I also hope Kaz doesn't end up numbered with those through out history who bit off more than they could chew.

 

[Devedander]

I hope so... I bought a friggin PS3 to play GT5 and I am already dissapointed in the PS3 already (another story)... I don't need GT5 adding to that whenever it finally comes out.

The main issue with your question though is that a lot of people have different expectations. Some would be happy with an HD GT4, some probably won't be happy unless GT5 is EXACTLY everything they expect and want and more.

My fear is that perhaps what made GT great was that KY just made it exactly what he wanted it to be and focused on that. Fortunately at the time earlier GTs came out, wha the wanted was actually very impressive for the average gamer.

However I have to wonder if what KY dreams about is no longer what the market calls for anymore... perahps KY's desires are becoming dated?

Where I could see this going wrong is if KY has to do things he doesn't personally desire and thus the product reflects this.

Example: You have a chair maker who loves making wooden chairs. No tables, no beds, just chairs. And no cloth, no padding, just a wooden chair.

And he makes exquisite chairs... and at his prime, the world just uses wooden chairs - no one has invented a good table or put padding on a chair, all the word knows is wooden chairs and his are the best. He loves crafting them and as a result, his chairs are top notch.

Then the world progresses... people want tables and beds and they want pads on their chairs... the chair maker still only dreams of making the perfect wooden chair...

But he has to put food on the table.

So he starts making tables and starts padding his chairs because the guy down the street is selling padded dining sets and that's what people are buying.

Poor chair maker is now no longer doing exactly what he wants, he is doing what the people want so he can continue to make chairs at least some of the time...

But he doesn't like making tables, he doesn't like tables, doesn't use tables, doesn't want tables. So his tables aren't so good becuase they aren't designed and made by a person who understand and wants tables and can thus make a table how you would want one.

He doesn't like padded chairs so his padded charis are just plain wood chairs with padding stapled on. He hasn't designed the chairs to work with the padding, it's just added on and so feel wrong and lumpy and sits funny.

I have to wonder if that's what's happening to KY... I think while he was creating his vision he was doing great things as he was making his dream. And it was fortunate that at the time he was doing it, it was what the people wanted.

But now maybe times have changed but his dream hasn't? If he is the wooden chair maker making padded dinner sets.... it's quite possible the result will dissapoint both the plain wooden chair lover as well as the dedicated dinner set enthusiast...

 

[FLASH48]

I guess someone just needs to sell his PS3. I just can't believe people saying they bought the PS3 just for GT5, so when you get though playing it are you selling the PS3?

If GT5 is a little better than Prologue and has the physics of the Time Trial, i'm good to go!!

 

[jedaye]

First question is what do people expect. Since GT5 has been in development for 5 years, most would expect a perfect game. Kaz has a lot of pressure on him, but I'm sure the team in Tokyo can come through with the best racing simulator so far.

From reading posts in GTPlanet and reading blogs posted in other websites, I believe Damage will an important factor in deciding GT5's fate.

 

[Captain Roh]

Devedander. That was, THE most, long winded, sureal metaphor, I have ever witnessed! Loved it

It's a valid point too. In this generation of gaming we are far more spoiled than ever before. Also, gamers are more savvy technically, there is so much more variety, and as a result, people are more aware of what's possible and indeed, what they want new games to include. Forums, magazines, development diaries, trailers, demos... We're made to feel more and more in involved in any particular games evolution, and when things don't turn out the way you were kind of lead to believe, maybe then you feel a little let down. I can relate to that.

It's a far cry from when we were just happy with what we got given that's for sure. I kinda preferred it that way.

 

[buickgnx88]

 

[GMTN]

What are the expectations?

 

[whatbrown]

Devedander, that was quite profound. I actually wonder the same thing (not in so many words). One really does have to wonder if PD has bitten off more than they can chew. I think if they would have just scrapped the damage alone, we might already have the game. That, along with NASCAR, IRL, online, all the new cars and tracks and remodeling the old ones, car interiors, new physics, etc is a tall order for anyone. Especially someone who is a perfectionist and has to deliver a product that has a ton riding on it from fan's satisfaction, critic's reviews, Sony's bottom line. etc.

In the end, the game will be awesome and I will love it. I don't know if it can possibly live up to the hype and the expectations we all have.

 

[jmb27]

I certainly see your point Devedander, but it's hard to believe that they would spend five years on a game that isn't that good. I think that people will expect the game to be perfect, but no game can be perfect to all people all the time. If it isn't good it will be a very bad thing for KY/PD. Especially since people like myself, i know a lot of you can relate to this, have been waiting for five years.

 

[ShawnPhillips]

As long as GT5 can deliver everything GT4 had plus what has already been confirmed.
I was actually disapointed with how little actual new features there are in forza 3 put the cockpit view and new tracks alone was enough to keep me playing much longer then forza 2 last summer I even quit Forza 2 and went backto GT4, so I'm not at all worryed about how much I will enjoy GT5.

 

[Devedander]

I certainly see your point Devedander, but it's hard to believe that they would spend five years on a game that isn't that good.

I am not sure what you mean...

Do you mean you can't imagine a game with 5 years of work could be bad or do you mean you think they would have given up and stopped by now had they realized the game was going to be bad?

 

[SuperCobraJet]

What are the expectations?

They will probably be different for each of us, but I believe a common result is that the more time passes the higher they will become and the more we will expect, whatever it is. Likewise we will likely be much more critical of the finished product and unforgiving, if it is not just as our image of the expectations has been allowed to rise.

In other words, after 5+ freakin years it had better meet my expectations, whatever they are.

I hope so... I bought a friggin PS3 to play GT5

So did I, some 2+ years ago. Also to play GT5P too.

 

[Kryz11]

I hope so!

 

[Devedander]

They will probably be different for each of us, but I believe a common result is that the more time passes the higher they will become and the more we will expect, whatever it is. Likewise we will likely be much more critical of the finished product and unforgiving, if it is not just as our image of the expectations has been allowed to rise.

In other words, after 5+ freakin years it had better meet my expectations, whatever they are.

Which is also why Duke Nukem Forever needs to be released and be SUPER BADASSS!

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Depends. From what I've seen a lot of people here have some pretty unrealistic expectations.

 

[Earth]

Depends. From what I've seen a lot of people here have some pretty unrealistic expectations.

They want 43 cars in NASCAR races, 70 unique tracks from 20 "locations" ex. countries, weather, day night changes for every track etc etc.

Of course none of that has been confirmed yet they allowed themselves to believe it has been.

 

[happycorey]

It just better live up to the hype PD has built for their game

 

[Snaeper]

No, because a lot of people have some pretty outlandish expectations

 

[Fredzy]

Anyone who cares at all about cars or driving will be swiftly blown away by GT5.

Even the biggest haters will only be able to say "sure it's a good game but it took so looooong, T10 released three Forzas blah blah blah" and I won't care since I'll be busy playing the driving game and hardly looking on these forums save for tuning data.

Sony will make every penny they could hope for.

Then GT6 will come out in 2-3 years and everything will be back to normal until PS5 and GT X.

 

[Northstar]

No, because people will always expect more than what is reasonable. So until people just relax and enjoy the game there will be disappointment.

 

[HN7]

My expectation is TT physics + the amount of cars and track GT4 had (pretty reasonable and mostly confirmed) so I will be happy when the game's out. For those that's expecting greatly improve physics, graphic and sound, they will be disappointing for sure.

 

[Devedander]

No, because people will always expect more than what is reasonable. So until people just relax and enjoy the game there will be disappointment.

I have always wondered how people just get to say something like "they are expecting unreasonable things". How do you know? Who decides what's reasonable? Where is the measure?

I often get the feeling that this term is used by people who feel the need to defend the GT series and is a blanket statement for "anything that doesn't make it into the game".

So far I have seen pretty reasonable expectations (although sometimes a little frivolous) but overall I don't recall anyone asking for anything unreasonable in my book... most of what I see people expecting are things already available in other games and then sometimes things that might be tricky but are still pretty reasonable requests (like lots of cars on track for NASCAR).

So rolling up on 6 year dev cycle, a crew that's widely touted as an incredible development team, on what is lauded by many fans as the most powerful console out there... I have to ask, what are these unreasonable things people expect?

 

[Earth]

most of what I see people expecting are things already available in other games and then sometimes things that might be tricky but are still pretty reasonable requests (like lots of cars on track for NASCAR).

So I have to ask, what are these unreasonable things people expect?

Unreasonable as in expecting something that never was promised.

I'd say asking for larger fields for NASCAR is unreasonable because its never been like PD to increase the field for different racing series.

They've said 16 cars online and offline and thats that.

Le Mans has 55 cars in real life on track but in Gran Turismo 4 there were only 6 cars for the Le Mans 24 hour races. 6 cars on a 9 mile track can get lonely. 16 stock cars on a 1 or 2 mile oval wont be that bad. I've been in online NASCAR races with 40 cars but after a few laps its just a handful of cars fighting for the lead with the rest crashed spread out or far behind.

Same thing with Le Mans, 16 LMP1 cars is about the same amount of LMP1 cars that take part of the real race so it should be fine. You dont get to zip past GT2 traffic 50mph faster but thats it.

 

[Gt-fan_76]

until i don't have it in my ps3 and playing it, i am disapointed

 

[yossigab]

Few comments:
1) When people say about themselves that they bought PS3 only (or "mainly" in other cases) for GT5 (and I'm among them) then I believe they meant that if GT5 was multi-platform game they they might bought a different "tool" to have the same game (either PC or XBOX360), not necessarily a PS3. Since if it is a multiplatform game then one will look at other games/services that others has to offer.

2) Currently I also one of those people who think that PD might not deliver what people expect them to. I sure hope that I will be wrong but I think that PD/KY (+Sony) is trying to put too much in one game.
It is hard for me to believe that "one game will rule them all" (Lord of the Rings...) - Rally + Nascar + Road racing + F1. Each type of game is unique in it's own way:
manner, type, handling & physics, scoring system, pitstops, and in some cases even HUD requirements.
I think think that PD should have release (a year ago probably) a "normal" GT5 as we know it, and then later on "GT5 Rally Edition", "GT5 F1 Edition" & "GT5 Nascar Edition" - all could be based on the same engine but with modifications & tweaks to meat the specific game. BTW - for me the Rally in GT5 was never much fun since it wasn't polished as the "road" part of the game.

3) Regarding the "Chair" metaphor, I also think that KY has to do things in GT5 that he was never desired to do.
But I want to emphasize that because of that, those specific parts doesn't have the "vision" that KY has on things that he already thought of or wanted to.
Those "unwanted" things are added just because the market/Sony is telling him I don't have a doubt that it will be reflected in the feature itself (we probably could guess it once the game released and we will be playing it)

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

I'm hoping it's only the damage that's completely crap, since I'm not planning on turning it on anyway.

Day/night aint difficult to pull of in this day and age so I don't expect much can go wrong there if it's included.

The actual driving part (all I'm really interested in) I expect will be as good as, if not better than ever.

Other people might feel differently - good luck to them. I'll be too busy racing to care.

 

[TokyoDrift]

Generally speaking, there is no way Kaz can deliver on the false expectations that have been set as a result of the crazy development times, recent delay, and the endless rumours that circulate these forums.

Personally, if it's anything like GT5P just with more cars and tracks, I'll be happy.

Few comments:
1) When people say about themselves that they bought PS3 only (or "mainly" in other cases) for GT5 (and I'm among them) then I believe they meant that if GT5 was multi-platform game they they might bought a different "tool" to have the same game (either PC or XBOX360), not necessarily a PS3. Since if it is a multiplatform game then one will look at other games/services that others has to offer.

I think you are right, and in hindsight, if that were the case I'd have an Xbox 360 right now and be playing Forza 3 while waiting for GT5.

 

[patriotzero]

my expectations damage weather and day night cycles and huge online experience..I hope so they will deliver them
anyon wants 2d tree in expectations?

 

[RedBaron]

Yes, even cars should be cardboards with real cardboard physics!💡

 

[rkk01]

A few very salient points raised here, and over the last month I've been increasingly thinking along the lines of the chair maker analogy.

Regarding "unrealistic" fan expectations - I absolutely disagree with this. All of the expectations I have seen expressed on this site are realistic - at least individually. Admitedly, collectively they add a burden to development time and hardware capacity, and as posted above, some might seem slightly frivolous or just eye candy to some users.

Personally, in an era of almost cinematic quality in current games, I find it somewhat blinkered to have beautifully rendered cars, but not to extend the same care and attention to environmental factors. Again, this is personal opinion, and is probably an area where KY is being asked to spend time, attention, hardware capacity and money on items that hold little personal interest to him.

I think one area we have a blind spot to is not our unrealistic expectations - but those expectations put on PD from within their own team - ie SONY.

If NASCAR, IRL, damage and oval tracks are KY's tables - who has asked for these elements to be added to the core GT game of encyclopaedic production cars and GT racers? Surely it is Sony's brand and marketing managers looking for a better penetration of the US market that have made these demands on PD???