Will you go to XBone if Standard cars are officially announced for GT7?

[johnmaxmanoy]

@Tenacious D, to each their own I guess. But a japanese game without premium supra? What a joke

Yeah.

I guess the difference is FM gets cars that people ask for on the forums and T10 employees want collectively, while GT is Kaz's personal collection.

Yeah.

 

[glassjaw]

And with those racing leagues being courted by Kaz for future GTs, I'd much rather have the list of cars in GT6 as race car fodder for leagues like BTCC, WTCC, the FIA GTs, ALMS and USTCC... you name it. Ideally, both games' car lists should converge, and they might in the coming years, but I dig the head start Gran Turismo has.

Eh, I don't know. Kaz likes to dabble. He gives us 4 FIA GT3 chassis - which could potentially work - but then just one or two liveries for each car, ensuring that a 16-car grid of a single series will be filled with many duplicates. It's even worse with Le Mans prototypes. If PD really wants to bring specific racing series into GT, they should do a better job of representing them. Except Super GT - they've had that one very well covered since the first game.

 

[Tenacious D]

I agree completely. In GT7, they need every racing league represented with enough cars to fill a grid without duplicates, even if they have to use fantasy liveries and teams.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Eh, I don't know. Kaz likes to dabble. He gives us 4 FIA GT3 chassis - which could potentially work - but then just one or two liveries for each car, ensuring that a 16-car grid of a single series will be filled with many duplicates. It's even worse with Le Mans prototypes. If PD really wants to bring specific racing series into GT, they should do a better job of representing them. Except Super GT - they've had that one very well covered since the first game.

The focus of the game has always been on street cars and now concepts and fantasy cars are a huge part of the equation. They just can't model cars fast enough to fill grids up with unique cars all from one series. Their historic limit is about 40 unique cars/year and once you throw in some VGT modeling, some fantasy cars, some street cars, it doesn't leave enough room for simply filling out grids in series already in the game. I'm sure they're thinking they'll get more bang for the buck by introducing other oddball or unique cars, a vintage car or two, a car or two from a new series etc.

 

[glassjaw]

The focus of the game has always been on street cars and now concepts and fantasy cars are a huge part of the equation. They just can't model cars fast enough to fill grids up with unique cars all from one series. Their historic limit is about 40 unique cars/year and once you throw in some VGT modeling, some fantasy cars, some street cars, it doesn't leave enough room for simply filling out grids in series already in the game. I'm sure they're thinking they'll get more bang for the buck by introducing other oddball or unique cars, a vintage car or two, a car or two from a new series etc.

I disagree, I don't think GT has ever really favored one car category over another. With the first game there was obviously a focus on Japanese street cars, but then PD was just beginning to figure out what exactly they wanted the franchise to be, and GT2 expanded the roster to include many unlikely vehicles. And they don't have to produce full grids - as I said, four cars for the FIA GT3 segment could work. But if you're only going to have four unique models, you better be sure you have enough liveries. Hell, they could even lessen duplication by adding different driver numbers as "colors" like they did for some older cars, like the R8 prototype in GT4. There are small things they can do to make the series they try to represent feel much more authentic. Consistency is key too. For example, why does the SLS GT3 lack a livery when all the rest don't? PD's apparent fear or hesitation of approaching non-factory teams isn't doing them any favors.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I disagree, I don't think GT has ever really favored one car category over another. With the first game there was obviously a focus on Japanese street cars, but then PD was just beginning to figure out what exactly they wanted the franchise to be, and GT2 expanded the roster to include many unlikely vehicles. And they don't have to produce full grids - as I said, four cars for the FIA GT3 segment could work. But if you're only going to have four unique models, you better be sure you have enough liveries. Hell, they could even lessen duplication by adding different driver numbers as "colors" like they did for some older cars, like the R8 prototype in GT4. There are small things they can do to make the series they try to represent feel much more authentic. Consistency is key too. For example, why does the SLS GT3 lack a livery when all the rest don't? PD's apparent fear or hesitation of approaching non-factory teams isn't doing them any favors.

Agreed for the most part. I just don't see PD having that much attention to detail nor any real concern if we have full grids of unique cars from various series.

 

[AlexN8710]

Never!

(Hi all, my first post in ages btw)

No matter what, could never switch sides. It's nothing to do with blind Sony-tologist devotion. I feel Sony has the best exclusives and generally puts out the superior system.

How that system is implemented (cue sony faceplant with PS3/developer issues) is a whole different story. Considering I often upgrade my PC halfway through console cycles, I don't really buy them for much else other than exclusives.

As for standard cars, come on really?

Won't the PS3 premiums become standards? Yikes! What does that make the ps2 models......most definitely sub standard and not worthy of GT.

Its unrealistic to think that PD can individually model behaviours for 1200+ cars. No matter what car, we are in reality, driving PD's 'driving model', which in my opinion is rather nice. Why not use GT7 as an opportunity to break away from the old, rather like GT3 did? That game did not have anywhere near the roster of GT2, but no one I knew really cared because the game was mind blowingly good.

GT7 could feasably have 3-400 properly rendered, PS4 quality cars to race in all categories and enjoy. PD are adding cars, tracks etc to their 'GT operating system' all the time so why waste space on prehistoric models? PD is obviously struggling with the scale of what GT has become. It doesn't seem like they will be doubling their staff any time soon so cutting the crap seems like a no brainer.

 

[mister dog]

Its unrealistic to think that PD can individually model behaviours for 1200+ cars. No matter what car, we are in reality, driving PD's 'driving model', which in my opinion is rather nice. Why not use GT7 as an opportunity to break away from the old, rather like GT3 did? That game did not have anywhere near the roster of GT2, but no one I knew really cared because the game was mind blowingly good.

GT7 could feasably have 3-400 properly rendered, PS4 quality cars to race in all categories and enjoy. PD are adding cars, tracks etc to their 'GT operating system' all the time so why waste space on prehistoric models? PD is obviously struggling with the scale of what GT has become. It doesn't seem like they will be doubling their staff any time soon so cutting the crap seems like a no brainer.

Good post, yes indeed a new GT3 like game (smaller in size but a finished, quality product) is what would save the series from the downfall. Sadly i don't think that's gonna happen and it will just be a next gen GT6 with all it's trademark flaws in game design.

 

[glassjaw]

Won't the PS3 premiums become standards? Yikes! What does that make the ps2 models......most definitely sub standard and not worthy of GT.

Its unrealistic to think that PD can individually model behaviours for 1200+ cars. No matter what car, we are in reality, driving PD's 'driving model', which in my opinion is rather nice. Why not use GT7 as an opportunity to break away from the old, rather like GT3 did? That game did not have anywhere near the roster of GT2, but no one I knew really cared because the game was mind blowingly good.

GT7 could feasably have 3-400 properly rendered, PS4 quality cars to race in all categories and enjoy. PD are adding cars, tracks etc to their 'GT operating system' all the time so why waste space on prehistoric models? PD is obviously struggling with the scale of what GT has become. It doesn't seem like they will be doubling their staff any time soon so cutting the crap seems like a no brainer.

Although I agree with most of what you're saying here, the thing to remember is that the jump from PS3 > PS4 is unlike the jump to previous generations. In the old days - I'm talking the PS2's generation and earlier - a leap in a system's power was mostly associated with the number of triangles it could push onto the screen. Nowadays, that's still the case, but it's more about advanced lighting techniques and other things besides just polygons. What this means is, I'm confident PD could take the PS3 premiums, port them in GT7 and they'll look excellent, even though from a modelling standpoint they'll be mostly unchanged. Some of the earlier premiums from the GT HD/GT5 Prologue era might need some touching up, but I really think PD could get by with the current premiums and not have to start from scratch. Look at Driveclub, for example, and then look at GT6. I think if you were to take GT6's premiums and render them in Driveclub, the difference in quality between both games' cars would be negligible - and that could easily be forgiven this early in the console's lifecycle. Which is why its imperative that PD gets GT7 out the door sooner rather than later.

 

[Tenacious D]

(PD) don't have to produce full grids - as I said, four cars for the FIA GT3 segment could work. But if you're only going to have four unique models, you better be sure you have enough liveries. Hell, they could even lessen duplication by adding different driver numbers as "colors" like they did for some older cars, like the R8 prototype in GT4. There are small things they can do to make the series they try to represent feel much more authentic. Consistency is key too. For example, why does the SLS GT3 lack a livery when all the rest don't? PD's apparent fear or hesitation of approaching non-factory teams isn't doing them any favors.

Then we have to encourage them to. In fact, I've mentioned wanting them to produce fantasy GT cars with fantasy liveries in order to flesh out a full grid. And yes, I definitely want full grids. If PS4 can run 24 car fields, then they need to provide 24 cars per league, or more.

This is one thing I'm insistent on, that if Kaz is wanting to reproduce the motorsports world, then by golly, reproduce it. They have a lot of fodder for it, between serious sports cars, supercars and established race cars, as well as a decent number of tracks. They have literally hundreds of cars available from various racing leagues, from Super GT, DTM, ALMS, WRC, the FIA GTs, the dreaded Formula GT to stand in for F1 cars, and plenty of sports cars which could be reworked into race cars for many other leagues. All it takes is for Kaz to sit down with the team and tell them, "This is what we're going to do."

JohnnyP will sometimes point out that GT has never been about this sort of thing. But Gran Turismo is a series of firsts from the beginning. Drift has never been a part of GT before either. Or NASCAR. Or online. But we have them now. And with Kaz talking with lots of racing teams from around the world, I'd love to see this "first" in GT7. It would simply be epic.

 

[Tornado]

Well, we have online at least.

 

[ironman44321]

I'll be sticking with GT. I don't mind the standards and I could never get into Forza. You also couldn't give me an Xbox One.
I'll buy the PS4 either later this year or sometime next year. I'll buy GT7 at launch and I'll probably get PCars aswell though maybe for PC...maybe.

For me GT is like Sonys Super Smash Brothers. I just have to buy them all...

Actually speaking of SSB, I don't even want a WiiU but I'll be buying the inevitable bundle as soon as I can get my hands on one. I must have that game...

 

[AlexN8710]

Tenacious D,

This begs questions such as (and of course these are just opinions),

Is GT morphing into an 'ultimate racing simulator'?
Do we (or Kaz for that matter) want it to?
Is GT really about AI, true to life racing, or time trials and stunning graphical quality?

It has always been pitched as the ultimate driving simulator. Drive your favourite cult cars, on cool tracks, perhaps (cough, cough) race offline, unlock cooler cars, done.

I think this paradigm may somewhat excuse the lack of focus on damage, AI etc. This, in pursuit of a superior driving model, variety of vehicle types and the 10/10ths distilled driving experience without the harsh realities that accompany it ( flags, disqualifications, death?). Single minded vision or convenient marketing strategy to smooth over hardware/time limitations? You decide.

I think the unavoidable truth is that hardware is less of a limitation owing to the CPU, memory and x86 architecture of PS4. The direction of the game and what it is trying to achieve should be clear, one way or the other.

Personally, I found GT3 to be the best balance. Heaps of tracks and races as well as cool prize cars worth grinding for. Ill never forget thrashing the Vanquish around the complex string.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Tenacious D,
This begs questions such as (and of course these are just opinions),
Is GT morphing into an 'ultimate racing simulator'?
Do we (or Kaz for that matter) want it to?
Is GT really about AI, true to life racing, or time trials and stunning graphical quality?

That's really the crux of the matter. What TenD wants, and I've pointed this out many times much to his chagrin, is a completely different game from the GT that we've come to know over the past 15 years. He wants a hardcore sim racer that's pretty much a carbon copy of everything Project Cars, but with all the car variety that the GT series offers. This would be a 180 degree change in philosophy from Kaz's Vision of the last decade and a half of lots of cars, lots of tracks and a very casual, newb friendly, let's-race-your-grandma-then-chase-the-rabbit event design.

 

[jimipitbull]

JohnnyP will sometimes point out that GT has never been about this sort of thing. But Gran Turismo is a series of firsts from the beginning. Drift has never been a part of GT before either. Or NASCAR. Or online. But we have them now. And with Kaz talking with lots of racing teams from around the world, I'd love to see this "first" in GT7. It would simply be epic.

Johnny P and Kaz seem to have a lot in common, they both are really good at marketing (and acronyms).
GTR this, VGT that....pCars this, GAS that.

What better place for racing title product placement than 1. the most popular racing title and 2. The largest fan forum of the most popular racing title.

 

[glassjaw]

That's really the crux of the matter. What TenD wants, and I've pointed this out many times much to his chagrin, is a completely different game from the GT that we've come to know over the past 15 years. He wants a hardcore sim racer that's pretty much a carbon copy of everything Project Cars, but with all the car variety that the GT series offers. This would be a 180 degree change in philosophy from Kaz's Vision of the last decade and a half of lots of cars, lots of tracks and a very casual, newb friendly, let's-race-your-grandma-then-chase-the-rabbit event design.

No, GT isn't strictly about racing, nor should it be - but that's not the issue here. The issue is that Kaz and PD continue to go out and grab huge licenses like WRC, NASCAR, and now the FIA (although the latter is more of a partnership), and massively under-represent them. Looking at @Tenacious D's aforementioned post...

This is one thing I'm insistent on, that if Kaz is wanting to reproduce the motorsports world, then by golly, reproduce it.

That's the key: if Kaz wants to, then he should. And based on those big names, he clearly wants to. So why isn't he? I don't think anyone here would disagree that four cars and a couple of driver outfits is poor use of the WRC license. And the way I see it, there is no middle ground. PD can either do what they used to do: add a couple series-exclusive cars to the game and not make a big deal about it, or they can land series rights and really develop an experience around a certain discipline of racing. What they need to stop doing is claiming the latter and doing the former. It's just misleading.

 

[PikachuRacer11]

The standard cars of GT5/GT6 may of not been the best looking modeled cars in the game by a long shot, but as Kaz claimed it was added as an "archive" of models from GT4. Regardless, I like them because without the standards, many of the everyday commuters I loved to tune and race in GT4 wouldn't be in the game.

However, Kaz also claimed that the standards will be converted to premium "as they become available".

So if I am correct, as more cars are converted to Premium, there may be a small chance that those standards that got converted to premium form will be removed, reducing the numbers Standards and increasing Premiums. However, the Standards will persist in GT for the unseen future (or until all Standards have become converted to Premiums).

If the standards will continue to live on in future GT titles, they should at least be enhanced to minimize the jagged lines in an effort to make their GT4 models look a bit less outdated as the game evolves. In GT7, I would expect that the standards look better than current GT6 Standards.
In the unforseen future I would hope by GT8, the Standards will appear like GT5 Premiums on the outside. By GT9 (likely on PS5 if it eventually exists, and if GT continues the "2 games per Playstation generation" cycle), I hope any standards still existing should at least appear the quality of GT6 Premiums on the outside.

Regardless of the fact standards are in GT7 or not, once I get a PS4 I will eventually get GT7.

 

[Johnnypenso]

However, Kaz also claimed that the standards will be converted to premium "as they become available".

Kaz actually said:

some of those cars [standards] we may be able to make into Premium cars as they become available

Two qualifiers in one sentence isn't exactly reassuring. In Kazspeak I think we can assume converting standards to premiums won't be a real high priority. I expect about what we got for GT6, a handful of cars converted to true premiums.

 

[Gerarghini]

PD has only been able to convert fifteen or so standards to premium from the time GT5 came out to today. That's 3 years. I'm not sure optimistic PD will take the approach and focus only on standard cars to premium as there has to be new cars in the series as well. I'm also not including cars like the RUFs because they might look good enough for 2008's GT5: P but won't hold up for 2015+ GT7.

 

[cdx]

The standards is one of the main reasons I'm getting the game, so I can't really pick any of the options in the poll. I'll get GT7 but because of the standards, not despite them.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

You need to add a "I already have both consoles" option to the pole

@swynder people who are pissed with the inclusion of standards don't expect all 1200 cars to be upgraded, we want them to be dumped. We are not being "silly" or asking too much of PD to delete them from the series.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

@swynder people who are pissed with the inclusion of standards don't expect all 1200 cars to be upgraded, we want them to be dumped. We are not being "silly" or asking too much of PD to delete them from the series.[/quote]

Perhaps, you could explain to me, why you, and others are taking this stance.

Is it more of a, "PS2 modeled cars are just ridiculously unacceptable and I'm pissed"?
Or more of a "visual obsession with their inferiority"?

A 1000+ cars has always been an objective with PD and deleteing them from the game is, IMO, practically a statistical impossibility.

BTW, not seeing them at all isn't likely, but not using them is still an option.
Since I consider this subject a minor factor in the ultimate quality of the game, I am somewhat surprised by this position.

As to the OP, my buying an XBone what not be based on this issue at all.

 

[Azure Flare]

Would I go XBone? Hell no! I'll just set up a PC and load up on a bunch of other games.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Perhaps, you could explain to me, why you, and others are taking this stance.

Are you freaking kidding me? Are you seriously asking "why" we want PD to delete the standard cars in GT7? Dude, there are verious of reasons why in this thread below.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...standards-are-here-to-stay-poll-added.312265/

You want to know my reason? Okay, is because assests from two generations back don't belong on next gen consoles. Not only is PD keeping these PS2 assets, their also aiming for quanitity over quality and that isn't what GT7 needs. Also, don't forget about the standard tracks.

Bonus pic.

 

[Zuku]

To add onto what @TokoTurismo has said most of these cars no one cares about. I'm telling you now if PD trimmed the car list down to 600 I know I wouldn't care want to know why even as far back as Gran Turismo 4 I didn't even get close to owning 50% of the car list, and at that time it was only what 900 or 1000 right?

Have you not seen the threads or people that have stated over and over again that the infinite skylines, miatas, lancers, etc etc. have gotten on their nerves?


I'll even take it a step further by saying give me balanced car list if PD gets a balanced car list which means equal representation of Europe, Japan, America, Germany(Love German Automotive vehicles lol),) etc etc. Then we can talk about 1500 cars

As people are also saying where are the other continents? Africa, Australia, South America.

From Lakari this one is out of Africa just found out about it today rather see this than another Skyline

 

[kennylmao]

I'll probably still buy GT7, just not on release day.

Honestly, Forza 5 doesn't have what I'm looking for in a racing game. It's lighting engine is mediocre, color representation is overly saturated. It doesn't look real.

 

[Zuku]

Just so I don't leave out South America

Again just like the car above just found this one at random the Rossin-Bertin Vorax

I'd take this over yet another Skyline, Miata, Lancer, Subaru incarnation.

I'm only doing this to let people know and PD mostly know that other places love cars too. I get that Japan is where PD is from, but when you seriously exclude car companies in favor of 10 pages worth of cars on the Japanese side of things that really does irk me. Which goes back to my balanced car list point seeing 10 pages for Nissan and only one entry in some European dealers or American Dealers come on man.

If PD would "Trim the fat" we probably would get to see cars like this one here.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

You want to know my reason? Okay, is because assests from two generations back don't belong on next gen consoles. Not only is PD keeping these PS2 assets, their also aiming for quanitity over quality and that isn't what GT7 needs. Also, don't forget about the standard tracks.

Referring to my two questions, I guess your reasoning would be covered by the first:

Is it more of a, "PS2 modeled cars are just ridiculously unacceptable and I'm pissed"?

Thanks for the reply.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Referring to my two questions, I guess your reasoning would be covered by the first:

Is it more of a, "PS2 modeled cars are just ridiculously unacceptable and I'm pissed"?

Thanks for the reply.

Not pissed but disappointing to know that PD may hold on to them on PS4, where everything high on quality. Didn't mean to sound so rough, was in a bad mood today. And no problem.

 

[Zuku]

This might be extreme, but @SuperCobraJet having those standard cars is like putting this

Into this

Okay that's enough from me with the pictures, but basically at one point that place in the first pic probably looked great (Think GT4 on PS2 where the cars came from), but you're trying to put it back into a new house, and everyone is looking at you like WHY!?