Worst You've Dealt With Online...

[MrUnknown]

Wait... do people care about "competitiveness" in a cruise room???

"Cruise" room.

 

[DrkPhnyx]

In my lobbies I always enable heavy damage & strong penalties, and ban all aids except abs (something I ban abs too).
Every now and then I hear some interesting excuses:

"the only reason you won is because you cheated, you banned all the driving aids, if I had driving line enabled I'd beat you easily."

"you're a cheater, you must have hacked the game, every time I crash my car acts weird."

"this isn't rFactor, turn that stupid damage & penalties off."

This is a classic example of why I hate onliners so much (with a few exceptions). I had a guy come in last night and ask for driving line. Normally, when I host, it's with an real world (local) friend, and we're on to play against each other and don't care about anyone else, so in that case, I would have said "no. leave.". But since I was hosting solo that night, I decided to be a little more polite. I said I liked the settings as they were, but offered to change tracks if he wasn't that familiar with the current one (Silverstone GP). He said "sorry, I always use the line". He went out on track though. At that point, I decided to downgrade my car, given the circumstances (was just him and I in there at this time). But then he left.

I allow ABS, TCS and ASM because modern cars have ABS that can't be turned off, and TCS is an option on most of them as well, and even ASM (like in the C5+). I choose to enable ABS on cars that have it, but don't use it on cars that don't. I seldom ever use the other 2, but, some people might prefer to leave those on while on a track (much like I leave TCS on in my real car when driving quickly through the back roads). But something tells me that people use that stuff (ABS in particular) even on cars that don't have it. I even saw a room claiming to be "full sim", it banned TCS, but allowed ABS.

I just know the masses are using the cheat view aid too. SOOOOO badly want to be able to lock interior view on. This is the only "sim" I know that does not have this feature in online gaming since like 2000 or something.


Found another "worst" thing too. In the Renault quick match, I keep getting penalized from people hitting me, mostly from behind. It makes it almost impossible to be competitive. I'd be mid pack at least if not for that, but I keep getting like 11 seconds in penalties on the first lap then am trying to play catch up the next 2 laps. I appreciate penalties in concept, but this "give it to the other guy" stuff is insane.

 

[Spurgy 777]

To be fair, this game is more realistic with ABS on, ABS off just doesn't really work like it would IRL, it's too sensitive and lacks feeling. (Not that ABS on is without it's faults, but I think it feels better than ABS off). Also, I use chase cam to compensate for the lack of realism in cockpit view, that being the lack of G-forces, which are normally used to feel the car, so not sure why it's a cheat view.

 

[FS7]

I just know the masses are using the cheat view aid too. SOOOOO badly want to be able to lock interior view on. This is the only "sim" I know that does not have this feature in online gaming since like 2000 or something.

I wouldn't go as far as call 3rd person cheat view, but it would be nice to have an option to restrict camera to cockpit view only (Shift 2 had that option), and even more important would be to have an option to restrict transmission to manual only.

 

[DrkPhnyx]

To be fair, this game is more realistic with ABS on, ABS off just doesn't really work like it would IRL, it's too sensitive and lacks feeling. (Not that ABS on is without it's faults, but I think it feels better than ABS off). Also, I use chase cam to compensate for the lack of realism in cockpit view, that being the lack of G-forces, which are normally used to feel the car, so not sure why it's a cheat view.

ABS on prevents lock ups. It is NOT more realistic with it on. Even if you use the sticks (which I do btw, because I can't afford a high end wheel, though I would LOVE to be able to, so jealous of many of the seat rigs I've seen). Adjust the bias as needed to work with your input control style. Initially I used to crank it way down on the front. Found, oddly, that with my Logitech Momo (which has seen better days and hasn't been used much in 6, mostly in 5) brakes at 5/5 were fine. But on the sticks, I'd be locking up all over. Yet, tuned for the sticks, I felt like I had no braking power when using the wheel. However, recently I've been finding that I do just fine with brake power up higher. Instead of like 2/4, I now usually use 4/5, and in at least one case I upped it to 5/6. Partly I think that is down to the revision to the suspension, tire, and friction modeling in 6, and perhaps a little to do with the fact that I've been using the sticks for quite some time now.


You don't need to feel anything in a sim. Sure, it would be great if we could strap on some 'trodes and delve into the world like Case (especially if we had a hot razor girl like Molly to hook up with), but we can't. It does not matter if it's a car or plane, fast or slow, competitive or aimless, all sensations you need for full control come from the bio-feedback loop through your eyes. When I fly IL2 or Strike Fighters or FS-WW1 or Rise of Flight, I can feel my orientation, and 3-dimensionally track myself, the landscape, and my opponents even without being able to turn my head, or turning my view slowly using my left thumb on my Cougar HOTAS's mini stick. (flight sims matter more to me, so I have a full control rig, but it's also easier to do on a PC than living room TV too - of course I bought that stuff before I had a mortgage too, so that makes a difference as well) Always cockpit on. Never a problem. Even in sims where I can't free-look.

All the same complaints have been brought up by the casuals - field of view, magnification, screen size, etc, etc. It's all been debunked. I don't know if flight simmers are just more serious, or if it's a PC vs console thing. Very disappointing either way though.

Part of simulation is immersion. Immersion means feeling like you are there. That means seeing what you'd see if you were. That means dashboard, hood, window frames, mirrors, etc. This will also mean duplication if you are using a wheel and see the one you are holding as well as the one on the screen. So what. That's where the mind comes in. One must be able to focus on what is on screen and lose oneself in the experience - immerse-oneself.

I know you didn't mention that, but others have. But yeah, as for sense of what the vehicle is doing, you get all you need for control just from what you see inside the cockpit. You can correct slides, hold drifts, cut apexes, all of it. In fact, just as is sometimes the case in real life, you think you hung a large slide, but on reply, you see that you corrected so fast it looks like barely anything happened at all.

Even with RR cars on comforts. And I'm not some super skilled guy. I never get into the top 100, and struggle with the more difficult seasonals and challenges and have to resort to driver aids. But chief among them is bumper cam. Goes hand in hand with SRF TCS, ABS and Active Steering. All about providing me with abilities I wouldn't have if I were in the real thing (like seeing through the car, tires that gain grip when they slide, etc.). [this is why cars like the X-Bow and Atom are so minimalist and exposed, to let you see more and aid your performance]


Don't mean to derail, but, you asked for an explanation.

I wouldn't go as far as call 3rd person cheat view, but it would be nice to have an option to restrict camera to cockpit view only (Shift 2 had that option), and even more important would be to have an option to restrict transmission to manual only.

But some cars are automatic, or auto only. What should happen is, if you put a custom dog-box in, then you should be forced to manually change them, regardless of online or off. But even most (all?) flappy paddle gear boxes have an automatic mode. I'm sure the owner could leave that on while driving it on a track, just like with the TCS switch.

As for view, it allows you to see what you couldn't if you were actually in the vehicle, so it's a driver aid, and a 'cheat' in that sense (like the other stuff that either doesn't exist, or isn't on a car it's used on by a player in game - gaming the game).

 

[Grandea GTR]

I get this alot, even when I have a slower car than others on a technical track:

I recently got kicked because nobody in the lobby thought it was even possible to pull off a lap time faster than 7 minutes on the Nurburgring with a Veyron (Pulled off a 6:39).

Cue hatemail and ban threats.

 

[Parcells2]

doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results may be considered insane.

 

[watermelon punch]

Well, it could be said that mulit-monitors are cheating too then.
Or using an expensive wheel set-up is cheating... or using a controller is cheating...

Anyone could come up with any difference and say it's cheating for some reason.
There's nothing you can do to control what somebody's doing in their house.
My spouse sometimes watches me race. Someone might say it's cheating if he warns me about seeing someone spinning up ahead on the map that I haven't noticed yet!!
What kind of restrictions would you be able to put on that????

I mean let's not go crazy.
It's hard enough to get people together who like the same kind of cars, the same kind of racing, the same kind of rules, and can race at the same time.

If you further restricted their equipment, how many monitors, and what view they use... You'd probably race with one person once a month, or race usually with people you dislike, or race cars you don't care for, with rules that you don't think are fair.

I drive a real car in real life, and I can tell you, cockpit view is not realistic to me. It's like looking through the slit of a suit of armor. It also makes me feel ill. So I use... I think it's called hood view.

I play the game to have fun, and I have an entire television screen that I like to make use of, because you know, in real life I can turn my head, move my eyes around, and see a whole field of vision, while my brain constantly compensates by ignoring the interior of the car. Something that's impossible when it takes up 60% of the virtual field of vision.

So if someone allowing ABS or racing in 3rd person view is the worst you've dealt with in online racing....
Seriously?

And oh my, is it really necessary to try and settle the age old argument of ABS as an aid in this thread?

Shall the OP rename the thread... ?
"Examples of people who disagree with me and how I think my opinion is the only right way to feel"

 

[GTP IWIN]

Well, it could be said that mulit-monitors are cheating too then.
Or using an expensive wheel set-up is cheating... or using a controller is cheating...

Anyone could come up with any difference and say it's cheating for some reason.
There's nothing you can do to control what somebody's doing in their house.
My spouse sometimes watches me race. Someone might say it's cheating if he warns me about seeing someone spinning up ahead on the map that I haven't noticed yet!!
What kind of restrictions would you be able to put on that????

I mean let's not go crazy.
It's hard enough to get people together who like the same kind of cars, the same kind of racing, the same kind of rules, and can race at the same time.

If you further restricted their equipment, how many monitors, and what view they use... You'd probably race with one person once a month, or race usually with people you dislike, or race cars you don't care for, with rules that you don't think are fair.

I drive a real car in real life, and I can tell you, cockpit view is not realistic to me. It's like looking through the slit of a suit of armor. It also makes me feel ill. So I use... I think it's called hood view.

I play the game to have fun, and I have an entire television screen that I like to make use of, because you know, in real life I can turn my head, move my eyes around, and see a whole field of vision, while my brain constantly compensates by ignoring the interior of the car. Something that's impossible when it takes up 60% of the virtual field of vision.

So if someone allowing ABS or racing in 3rd person view is the worst you've dealt with in online racing....
Seriously?

And oh my, is it really necessary to try and settle the age old argument of ABS as an aid in this thread?

Shall the OP rename the thread... ?
"Examples of people who disagree with me and how I think my opinion is the only right way to feel"

I like this guy.

 

[MrUnknown]

I like this guy.

He is a she.

 

[watermelon punch]

He is a she.

She is not amused.

 

[Grandea GTR]

I play the game to have fun, and I have an entire television screen that I like to make use of, because you know, in real life I can turn my head, move my eyes around, and see a whole field of vision, while my brain constantly compensates by ignoring the interior of the car. Something that's impossible when it takes up 60% of the virtual field of vision.

Sucks that some car interiors look like as if you're looking through a cheerio, or else I would've been a full-time cockpit view racer

 

[GTP IWIN]

She is not amused.

LOL sorry.

 

[DrkPhnyx]

Well, it could be said that mulit-monitors are cheating too then.
Or using an expensive wheel set-up is cheating... or using a controller is cheating...

Anyone could come up with any difference and say it's cheating for some reason.
There's nothing you can do to control what somebody's doing in their house.
My spouse sometimes watches me race. Someone might say it's cheating if he warns me about seeing someone spinning up ahead on the map that I haven't noticed yet!!
What kind of restrictions would you be able to put on that????

I mean let's not go crazy.
It's hard enough to get people together who like the same kind of cars, the same kind of racing, the same kind of rules, and can race at the same time.

If you further restricted their equipment, how many monitors, and what view they use... You'd probably race with one person once a month, or race usually with people you dislike, or race cars you don't care for, with rules that you don't think are fair.

I drive a real car in real life, and I can tell you, cockpit view is not realistic to me. It's like looking through the slit of a suit of armor. It also makes me feel ill. So I use... I think it's called hood view.

I play the game to have fun, and I have an entire television screen that I like to make use of, because you know, in real life I can turn my head, move my eyes around, and see a whole field of vision, while my brain constantly compensates by ignoring the interior of the car. Something that's impossible when it takes up 60% of the virtual field of vision.

So if someone allowing ABS or racing in 3rd person view is the worst you've dealt with in online racing....
Seriously?

And oh my, is it really necessary to try and settle the age old argument of ABS as an aid in this thread?

Shall the OP rename the thread... ?
"Examples of people who disagree with me and how I think my opinion is the only right way to feel"

I'll give you credit that you play GT, but..... I have to say that most Pensylvanians don't actually drive vehicles, they putter along paying attention to any and everything else but - ride brakes down hills (into valleys), stop when making a turn (in the middle of the road, just stop for a few seconds then turn), ignoring right of way by either letting left turn makers go at lights, or them stealing the ROW from those going straight the opposite way.... nearly got killed 3 times in the past 6 months from people trying to run me over, or off the road, or drive up into the bed of the truck. Then let's not even talk about rain or god forbid snow.

But, pretty much all that you said amounts to poor justifications for gaming the game. Simulation means recreating the experience - on screen. That means interior. There are always limits of the interface (processing power, screen size, res, shape, etc), but those limitations do not justify gaming the game.

Multi-monitors and wheels are not cheats. They are doing it the proper way, to the fullest. I wish I could afford it, I just can't. But there is a clear and obvious difference that I think bumper cam-ers and related need to ignore - excluding the interior (even if it is just a mask) provides one with something they would not have, if they were actually in the vehicle. Much like SRF, in fact. While using a wheel and/or multiple monitors is actually to be applauded as it's moving more in the sim direction (if interiors are on, at least). This is why I allow TCS and ABS, some cars have that, some may want to use it on those cars. But.... using it where it doesn't exist, that is gaming the game and a pandemic 'round these parts still.


As for the ABS argument - say "I prefer using ABS". Ok, no prob. Enjoy. Say "ABS on is more realistic on a 250 GT Passo Corto, than off", and that is just patently false. A difference.

 

[watermelon punch]

I'll give you credit that you play GT

 

[Grandea GTR]

I'll give you credit that you play GT, but..... I have to say that most Pensylvanians don't actually drive vehicles, they putter along paying attention to any and everything else but - ride brakes down hills (into valleys), stop when making a turn (in the middle of the road, just stop for a few seconds then turn), ignoring right of way by either letting left turn makers go at lights, or them stealing the ROW from those going straight the opposite way.... nearly got killed 3 times in the past 6 months from people trying to run me over, or off the road, or drive up into the bed of the truck. Then let's not even talk about rain or god forbid snow.

But, pretty much all that you said amounts to poor justifications for gaming the game. Simulation means recreating the experience - on screen. That means interior. There are always limits of the interface (processing power, screen size, res, shape, etc), but those limitations do not justify gaming the game.

Multi-monitors and wheels are not cheats. They are doing it the proper way, to the fullest. I wish I could afford it, I just can't. But there is a clear and obvious difference that I think bumper cam-ers and related need to ignore - excluding the interior (even if it is just a mask) provides one with something they would not have, if they were actually in the vehicle. Much like SRF, in fact. While using a wheel and/or multiple monitors is actually to be applauded as it's moving more in the sim direction (if interiors are on, at least). This is why I allow TCS and ABS, some cars have that, some may want to use it on those cars. But.... using it where it doesn't exist, that is gaming the game and a pandemic 'round these parts still.


As for the ABS argument - say "I prefer using ABS". Ok, no prob. Enjoy. Say "ABS on is more realistic on a 250 GT Passo Corto, than off", and that is just patently false. A difference.

That was quite a mouthful just to say that you prefer using ABS.

 

[DrkPhnyx]

Meaning that you are a PA driver, and since you play GT, there's a chance you are not like everyone I see on the roads every day. (who by and large don't and clearly have no interest in cars or driving)

Not sure if you thought I was making a sexist comment or something, just wanted to say it was not.

That was quite a mouthful just to say that you prefer using ABS.

You pretty much completely misread that. haha

 

[mistersafeway]

I'll give you credit that you play GT, but..... I have to say that most Pensylvanians don't actually drive vehicles, they putter along paying attention to any and everything else but - ride brakes down hills (into valleys), stop when making a turn (in the middle of the road, just stop for a few seconds then turn), ignoring right of way by either letting left turn makers go at lights, or them stealing the ROW from those going straight the opposite way.... nearly got killed 3 times in the past 6 months from people trying to run me over, or off the road, or drive up into the bed of the truck. Then let's not even talk about rain or god forbid snow.

But, pretty much all that you said amounts to poor justifications for gaming the game. Simulation means recreating the experience - on screen. That means interior. There are always limits of the interface (processing power, screen size, res, shape, etc), but those limitations do not justify gaming the game.

Multi-monitors and wheels are not cheats. They are doing it the proper way, to the fullest. I wish I could afford it, I just can't. But there is a clear and obvious difference that I think bumper cam-ers and related need to ignore - excluding the interior (even if it is just a mask) provides one with something they would not have, if they were actually in the vehicle. Much like SRF, in fact. While using a wheel and/or multiple monitors is actually to be applauded as it's moving more in the sim direction (if interiors are on, at least). This is why I allow TCS and ABS, some cars have that, some may want to use it on those cars. But.... using it where it doesn't exist, that is gaming the game and a pandemic 'round these parts still.


As for the ABS argument - say "I prefer using ABS". Ok, no prob. Enjoy. Say "ABS on is more realistic on a 250 GT Passo Corto, than off", and that is just patently false. A difference.

f you want to take racing so seriously, I suggest you get a wheel and start playing PC sims, because GT6 isn't going to get ABS or cockpit view right. I agree that things like SRF are a bad idea and I feel not using ABS except where applicable can be more fun, but just because someone may disagree on ABS doesn't mean they're a casual, and neither does not using cockpit view (roof/hood view for me). Out of curiosity, are all GT Academy finalists casuals or just Spurgy (and @BanditKarter22, he uses chase cam too I think)?

 

[DrkPhnyx]

f you want to take racing so seriously, I suggest you get a wheel and start playing PC sims, because GT6 isn't going to get ABS or cockpit view right. I agree that things like SRF are a bad idea and I feel not using ABS except where applicable can be more fun, but just because someone may disagree on ABS doesn't mean they're a casual, and neither does not using cockpit view (roof/hood view for me). Out of curiosity, are all GT Academy finalists casuals or just Spurgy (and @BanditKarter22, he uses chase cam too I think)?

Yes.

They are about winning/competing, not about simulation. Perhaps "casuals" is a poor term, "gamers" might be better. Using anything allowed to gain an edge, such as using a view that provides you with a field of view that is absolutely impossible in real life. Because it's not cited as an aid and not disabled, when competition is intense, you use whatever you can to gain an edge (or keep up).


PC racing sims (I have GTR2, btw, that's what I got my Momo for a few years ago) do not have the selection of street cars, and modification options on them. So I'm a bit stuck. (and it's GT that got me on the the PS in the first place and lured me inexorably away from my PC)

The real issue is people claiming that turning the interior off is "more real", much like my ABS on the 250 GT example. It's not that people use it. It's that I can't force it on in lobbies, and then see poor justifications for it, as it it were not in fact an aid (when it is). ....ok, it's a little disappointing that so many do use it, but it's mainly the other thing. lol

 

[watermelon punch]

@DrkPhnyx just give it up

Everything's whooshing over your head...

You might want to use chase cam on the forum. 💡




Attention online racers with pet peeves:

This has been a special broadcast of "OMG driving aids!"

We now return to your regular program...

Let the stories of Cruise Lobby indignation resume!!

 

[Grandea GTR]

Yes.

They are about winning/competing, not about simulation. Perhaps "casuals" is a poor term, "gamers" might be better. Using anything allowed to gain an edge, such as using a view that provides you with a field of view that is absolutely impossible in real life. Because it's not cited as an aid and not disabled, when competition is intense, you use whatever you can to gain an edge (or keep up).


PC racing sims (I have GTR2, btw, that's what I got my Momo for a few years ago) do not have the selection of street cars, and modification options on them. So I'm a bit stuck. (and it's GT that got me on the the PS in the first place and lured me inexorably away from my PC)

The real issue is people claiming that turning the interior off is "more real", much like my ABS on the 250 GT example. It's not that people use it. It's that I can't force it on in lobbies, and then see poor justifications for it, as it it were not in fact an aid (when it is). ....ok, it's a little disappointing that so many do use it, but it's mainly the other thing. lol

You might want to stop... Just come back up.

 

[DrkPhnyx]

@DrkPhnyx just give it up

View attachment 308189


Everything's whooshing over your head...

You might want to use chase cam on the forum. 💡




Attention online racers with pet peeves:

This has been a special broadcast of "OMG driving aids!"

We now return to your regular program...

Let the stories of Cruise Lobby indignation resume!!

No, disagree with that assessment, but feel free to illustrate in PM.

But you do have the right idea with moving back to the "cruise lobby indignation". haha (lest it be locked)

You might want to stop... Just come back up.

 

[Spurgy 777]

@DrkPhnyx Firstly, yes, I know how to tune brake balance, did you seriously think I hadn't thought of that? The reason I said ABS on is more realistic than off, is because the way you brake with ABS on, is the same as how you brake IRL; brake hard initially and modulate the brake as you turn in. With ABS off you can't do that because it's unrealistically sensitive to lockups, which means you have to modulate the brake pretty much from the beginning of the braking zone.

Now as for the view, yes, technically cockpit view is more realistic from a visual point of view, but tbh, I don't care at all for most of what I'm looking at when I'm driving a car. All I'm interested in is reference points, and to make the experience as real as possible, I like to have access to all the information and reference points that I would IRL, and I don't get that from cockpit view, so it's unrealistic for me. That why I use chase cam, because I get to use all the reference points I would IRL, I get to have the same spacial awareness as I would IRL, and I also get information about the car that I would normally get from my seat, and that I don't get from cockpit view.

Also, I find it hilarious that you're calling me a "casual" just because I like to drive as realistically as possible with regard to information feedback I get and wheel/pedal inputs I put in, and not with regard to what I'm looking at, or what the settings happened to be called.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Both brake assist and no brake assist are just as realistic in terms of the physics involved in the game, the only difference ABS 1 is form of an assist by the game that give the driver ability to brake without worry of lock up, including having added stability on the car. ABS 0 disable these, and the only problem that I often found is the input device for most people.
Pedals are well known to be badly utilized by the game, not enough travel to use ( too sensitive ) and lack of feel/feedback when locking up. Those who wanted to use ABS 0 with pedals can do so but will need to make adjustments + practice. I know some who can drive with ABS 0 just fine on pedals ( some of them have the pedals modified ) It just need the will to do it and practice.

I never use ABS since 1st time I play GT5, and I'm on a stick, and I can modulate the brakes just fine with my thumb, even on racing brakes and 4/4 BB like on this video ( I have no difficulty with my input device as I use DS2 - square for brake and cross for gas ) :



It took me good 6 months from GT5 release day to get used to ABS 0.

On GT6 cars with comfort + sports tire and normal brakes with 3/5 to 5/7 BB range, I can do full braking from high speed - above 200kmh ( full force - full red brake bar ) then modulate as the speed lowers and entering the corner. I tried G27 once with no brake assist, and I can brake just as efficient as I was on my stick within 30 minutes driving - I often use left foot braking as well. My favorite tracks to practice : Fuji Speedway F, Suzuka and both Nurburgring GP D + F.


What I don't really like is when I host no assist room, people often mock me before leaving as they saw that ABS is not allowed. I host the room with the title clearly said no brake assist

Those who stayed are usually nice chap and drive cleanly, mostly cruise or track days.

 

[The Stig Farmer]

GT with ABS set to 0 is unplayable on the DS3. End of/

 

[JuuWoo]

delete

 

[Grandea GTR]

In the rooms I host, I make the lobby available for anybody, meaning I allow all assists.

Now what I don't like is whenever somebody in that lobby tries to dictate what assists to put in or not, and start berating those who have assists.

That person gets a swift kick to the face outta here.

 

[Dan]

The thing that annoys me about ABS 0 on DS3, is that they lock up if I put 50% pressure on the brakes. Even if it's less than that, they still lock up. So frustrating.

 

[ToyGTone]

Wait a minute, Is there any difference when you turn off ABS between the wheel and the Dual Shock 3?

 

[Grandea GTR]

Wait a minute, Is there any difference when you turn off ABS between the wheel and the Dual Shock 3?

Just on how well you can control the brakes. A pedal vs. A pressure sensitive button...