Would you buy GT5 if it was released without damage?

If GT5 is released without damage would you buy it?

  • Yes

    Votes: 244 92.1%

  • No

    Votes: 21 7.9%
  • Total voters
    265
Just to let you guys who are avid PC sim racers, I've been getting into a bit of everything gaming over the past couple of months. I've been dumping out my PS2 and Dreamcast box and playing my old faves over again. Because I've been jonesing over the lack of GT5, I went out and bought a few PC racing sims last month, even though I'm something of a PS3 snob. ;) Before the PC screwed up my DF Pro wheel, I was really enjoying GTR Evolution, and I really want to get back into that if I can manage to come up with a new PC sometime soon. I'm not about to plug my DFGT wheel into a dodgy PC.

On the subject at hand, I'm wondering how many games really do have realistic damage these days, or if they're all like Forza to a degree. I noticed that GTR Evo was defaulted to something like 85 percent damage, and even then, it didn't seem to do much even after some pretty severe collisions. If Kazunori-dono is shooting for close to real life damage, where most accidents will pretty badly hurt your chances of doing well in a race, or even finishing period, I wonder if he really needs that kind of accuracy. I'd be amazed and thrilled if it was, at least when I got used to it, but I still wonder how many players really want truly punishing damage, to where the average high speed collision or leaving the track has the serious potential of a race ender.
 
Damage would make the game better - but of course I would still get it if it didn't have it!!
I'd be happy with better, and more varied, colision sounds (scraping, breaking glass etc.), particles and sparks etc. when contacting things, cars getting dirty,dusty,oily, muddy, snowy, etc.
A long, long, time wish is for tyre marks left on the track/grass/gravel that build up over the laps.
I'd like the option to dissable the driver assists for the AI cars - there's nothing better than watching the car in front try too hard, and spin off on the next corner in front of you (makes me smile!)
And I'd like an option to remove the rear view mirror in first person view.
 
My answer would be yes. I don't have a huge desire to see damage in GT. I certainly feel collision physics is needed however.

The main thing for me, if they include damage I want to see PD go the whole hog and have full scale damage, but we are not going to see that. :indiff:
 
Prefer it without damage GT's never had it and doesnt need it .

Agree with the need for collision avoidance though
 
Damage or no damage I'm sure the game will be worth the wait and I'm going to buy it regardless.
 
Really? GT5P has no damage? I though it did - just I'm sooo good I've never hit anything to test it out hahah (JOKES!!)

Seriously - all people who have anydoubt of voting yes, veiw those "what keeps you playing granturismo" style threads and reasses your position.
So far, damage in Granturismo is a figment of our imagination - and now some of us are saying they wouldn't buy it without damage?
Damage doth not maketh the game - physics, graphics and AI do.
 
SUPER NUMBBER
Just meant to say I'm not as desperate as you might've thought...

If GT5 doesn't give me an experience I can't already get in GT4, I just won't buy it.
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Incredible graphics and improved physics engine + cockpit view don't do it for you? Is damage really that important to you? if you're playing GT5 the way it was meant to, how many times will you even use the damage feature? if you just want to crash and see wreckage, why are you playing GT?

Anyways, the questions go on and on, I'm not trying to convince you to buy it, but I'm just puzzled, since GT is a driving simulator, and it has improved itself yet again even in GT5P in that respect, yet you are saying it offers nothing new. Puzzling
 
vaioleto
if you're playing GT5 the way it was meant to, how many times will you even use the damage feature? if you just want to crash and see wreckage, why are you playing GT?
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Oh dear. :ouch: I don't think anybody here wants damage model just so we can wreck the living hell out of our beautilicious virtual F430. :rolleyes: If anything, having damage would force a lot of players to actually start using real racing techniques, instead of just using the other cars as brakes. ;)
 
vaioleto
I'm just puzzled, since GT is a driving simulator, and it has improved itself yet again even in GT5P in that respect, yet you are saying it offers nothing new. Puzzling
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I think too many people either just haven't had a proper sitdown with Prologue and a good wheel controller - Sixaxis just doesn't cut it, or experience the similar understeer and think nothing much has changed. And then they assume that this experience equals what they're going to in the full GT5.

In one respect, Prologue is a demo, a sneak peek into GT5. But many of us forget how many real demos don't give the full impression of the finished game, such as with Sega Rally and Dirt. We've had two or three physics tweaks in Prologue so far, and with this length of time without further updates, we don't know what GT5 is going to be like, just in that regard. We have no idea how many goodies Kaz and the lads are putting into the game for us. But as I've posted numerous times, with each bit of news on the work they're doing, the whole net freaked out, and I expect that at E3, we're going to explode. Amar certainly sounds like he wants to. ;)
 
Tenacious D
I think too many people either just haven't had a proper sitdown with Prologue and a good wheel controller - Sixaxis just doesn't cut it, or experience the similar understeer and think nothing much has changed.
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I hope you are not referring to me! ;) I've had the game for almost a year now, and I agree that the driving model in Prologue is a HUGE step forward from GT4. Now you can actually oversteer powerful cars! :D I hated the fact that nearly every car in GT4, regardless of drive train, seemed to just understeer all the time. :yuck:

Now that PD have taken the big step forward with the driving physics, how about if they add some decent AI, good sounds and damage? 💡
 
Antti-san
I hope you are not referring to me! ;)
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No. ;) There are a few people, mostly newbies, who say that all the GTs are the same, and some of them are those PC snobs who I mentioned before. I can sort of see their point, but man, are they hard nosed about it. Mention any console game but Race Pro and they do a donut on you!

Mostly I was referring to those who say "why bother" to Prologue. These days you can get it cheaply enough, it almost seems like a no brainer to me to get a taste of GT5 with a LOT of cars for a prologue. And with GT5... who knows what Kazunori-dono has in store for us? Amar is pretty excited about something, and as I say, every time we learned something, we got excited too, so here's hoping for many of our wishes coming to life.
 
No. Damage really is important in a racing game to me, and if GT5 is released without it, and found out, I'd skip buying it till an update comes along and there is damage. If I did buy it without the knowledge that there was no damage, I'd just not play it till an update with damage comes along, which I will DEFINITELY look to find out about.
 
I hope for REALISTIC damage, that is one hit and you`re probably done with race, not some cosmetical scratches on bodywork . . . but should I buy GT5 without damage, definetely YES, the best races I ever had were without any contact.
 
C-ZETA
No. Damage really is important in a racing game to me, and if GT5 is released without it, and found out, I'd skip buying it till an update comes along and there is damage. If I did buy it without the knowledge that there was no damage, I'd just not play it till an update with damage comes along, which I will DEFINITELY look to find out about.
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I've seen alot of post like this, and I just don't believe it would be possible. If there is 400+ cars in the release of GT5, adding damage would be too big of a file, in my opinion, to download in a update. Unless the damage model is already coded in the software but, if this the case why not release it with damage?
 
I`ll still buy it because it`s the best racing game/sim on the market for the PS3,but damage would be nice. Everyone else has it so why cant GT?
 
Why wouldn't I buy it, Damage doesn't really make the game it just enhances it. Sure it may be a problem online if they don't have a good penalty system but hopefully there will be private rooms to make it less of an issue.
 
novcze
I hope for REALISTIC damage, that is one hit and you`re probably done with race, not some cosmetical scratches on bodywork . . . but should I buy GT5 without damage, definetely YES, the best races I ever had were without any contact.
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Which is one of the things Kazanouri has talked about for years. Getting cosmetic damage would be very easy for PD but would take away from the experience. Getting realistic damage would be a huge undertaking coupled with many car companies being against the idea or were.

I do find it funny people whinging about stuff like this while also moanig about waiting so long for the game.
 
SUPER NUMBBER
Just meant to say I'm not as desperate as you might've thought...

If GT5 doesn't give me an experience I can't already get in GT4, I just won't buy it.
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Yeah you are right.. Just last night I was playing the GT5P, I was just playing around.. and yeah damange will add so much more.. it got really dull!
 
vaioleto
Incredible graphics and improved physics engine + cockpit view don't do it for you? Is damage really that important to you? if you're playing GT5 the way it was meant to, how many times will you even use the damage feature? if you just want to crash and see wreckage, why are you playing GT?
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Maybe I'm too old, but graphics don't do it for me. In the end, we buy games to get a challenge, not to look at HD CG graphics. Frankly, if they left GT5 looking just like GT4 and added damage instead, I'd be psyched, because to me, GT4's graphics are good enough already (anybody remember the one pulled over Forza fans :lol:). The physics in GT4 were very close to perfect, IMO too, so the change to GT5P is not that big.

You're right, someone playing GT5 tries to never crash or induce damage. It is also the main objective of the game to ALWAYS drive the perfect line, isn't it? Now think about that for a second.....is it realistic to expect ALWAYS to hit the apex properly? Should the game not allow you to fail by missing the line? That wouldn't be much fun, would it?

I'm not asking for damage because I want to crash cars for hours on end. I ask for damage because FAILURE IS A PART OF REAL LIFE DRIVING, THE SAME REAL LIFE GT CLAIMS TO INTEND SIMULATING. Just like missing braking points and other mistakes, damage is an important aspect of real life driving. You'll never learn how to deal with a busted suspension after riding the rumble strip too much, otherwise. You'll never understand the effect of losing the rear spoiler mid-race on your strategy. This is the element I want.
 
^ I think GT5P's physics takes a huge step forward from GT4. The process of over powering your car so the rear slides out feels much more natural, the way the car moves, bounces and behaves also feels a lot more fluid than GT4.

It seems like what you want is more a punishing aspect to the game than merely cosmetic damage, and that would help prevent people from cheating online. But to me, if it means Polyphony will spend another year on the damage instead of releasing GT5 now, with its improved physics and visuals, I'd rather play GT5 now than wait.

Part of the appeal of GT is that it's realistic enough that you feel like you are driving a real car, but not punishing enough that you're out of a race if you crash. If I crash into a wall at 100mph, I can still race, it doesn't burden me with having to manage a wrecked car and just focuses purely on the driving aspect of racing. I think having damage would be nice, it'll force people to sharpen their skills, but it's certainly not necessary and it should be something you can turn off so that noobies can still enjoy the game.

I guess it's just a matter of opinion in the end.

I'm interested in seeing how you feel about Forza and GTR's damage model? In both games, you can run into a wall at 200mph and still drive away. IN that aspect, there is no damage in games that satisfy your taste to my knowledge.
 
Absolutely yes........

To me, Damage being included in GT5 or GT5:P is the biggest storm in a teacup i've ever seen..........

Is it needed in the overall scheme of things???

No. All previous incarnations of the series have got by just fine without it.
 
vaioleto
I'm interested in seeing how you feel about Forza and GTR's damage model? In both games, you can run into a wall at 200mph and still drive away. IN that aspect, there is no damage in games that satisfy your taste to my knowledge.
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I had asked that same question last week or so, and hadn't seen any response to it. With Kazunori-dono, it's really hard to say if he'd be content with less than realistic damage. Personally, I quickly got used to Forza's and GTR's level of damage, and Ferrari Challenge has even less damage, so I wasn't disappointed by it. Still, the question is what will The Master accept, and will all the car companies go along with it? Those are two crucial factors in this issue, and I have little doubt that what we want doesn't matter in the face of what Daimler Motors or Nissan wants.

It's entirely possible that Kazunori has culled some remarks from these and other message boards to present to the car makers for leverage. And I'm sure no car maker wants to be left out. If 90 percent of them have agreed to damage, I can see this as yet one more bit of leverage against the holdouts. But this is all hypothetical. The information on dealings between car companies and game makers is very skimpy, and there has been only one post that I'm aware of, I believe by a mod here, who mentioned how negotiating with car companies over damage was the most lopsided and frustrating subject in the world. A few would allow roll overs. Some would allow full damage. A larger fraction would allow considerable damage. Some would allow more damage on certain models. A few refused to allow racing modifications, while some would only allow damage to race modded cars. But very few would allow a high degree of damage to full, and none would allow the passenger compartment to be damaged at all.

This is a combo of what I heard from here and the Forza boards, so you can see that getting a hundred car companies to agree on such a sticky subject with their prized products is a mess. Heck, in Forza, the amount of damage a car takes depends on the car maker and what they would allow. I have no doubt that Kazunori wouldn't accept such a situation. Hopefully some of you understand this a bit more and aren't so dogmatic that if it's not in the game, it's going to blow.
 
Tenacious D
I had asked that same question last week or so, and hadn't seen any response to it. With Kazunori-dono, it's really hard to say if he'd be content with less than realistic damage. Personally, I quickly got used to Forza's and GTR's level of damage, and Ferrari Challenge has even less damage, so I wasn't disappointed by it. Still, the question is what will The Master accept, and will all the car companies go along with it? Those are two crucial factors in this issue, and I have little doubt that what we want doesn't matter in the face of what Daimler Motors or Nissan wants.

It's entirely possible that Kazunori has culled some remarks from these and other message boards to present to the car makers for leverage. And I'm sure no car maker wants to be left out. If 90 percent of them have agreed to damage, I can see this as yet one more bit of leverage against the holdouts. But this is all hypothetical. The information on dealings between car companies and game makers is very skimpy, and there has been only one post that I'm aware of, I believe by a mod here, who mentioned how negotiating with car companies over damage was the most lopsided and frustrating subject in the world. A few would allow roll overs. Some would allow full damage. A larger fraction would allow considerable damage. Some would allow more damage on certain models. A few refused to allow racing modifications, while some would only allow damage to race modded cars. But very few would allow a high degree of damage to full, and none would allow the passenger compartment to be damaged at all.

This is a combo of what I heard from here and the Forza boards, so you can see that getting a hundred car companies to agree on such a sticky subject with their prized products is a mess. Heck, in Forza, the amount of damage a car takes depends on the car maker and what they would allow. I have no doubt that Kazunori wouldn't accept such a situation. Hopefully some of you understand this a bit more and aren't so dogmatic that if it's not in the game, it's going to blow.
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👍👍 Exactly what I was thinking.
 
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Of course I'll buy it no matter what, but I'd absolutely prefer a damage system. It's 2009, other games can, so GT has to come on boat.
Yet I see the points of Tenacious D... being able to technically do it and getting the permission to do so are two very different things. Let's hope for the best ;)
 
vaioleto
I'm interested in seeing how you feel about Forza and GTR's damage model? In both games, you can run into a wall at 200mph and still drive away. IN that aspect, there is no damage in games that satisfy your taste to my knowledge.
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Yes, you get it right
 
Tenacious D
I had asked that same question last week or so, and hadn't seen any response to it. With Kazunori-dono, it's really hard to say if he'd be content with less than realistic damage. Personally, I quickly got used to Forza's and GTR's level of damage, and Ferrari Challenge has even less damage, so I wasn't disappointed by it. Still, the question is what will The Master accept, and will all the car companies go along with it? Those are two crucial factors in this issue, and I have little doubt that what we want doesn't matter in the face of what Daimler Motors or Nissan wants.

It's entirely possible that Kazunori has culled some remarks from these and other message boards to present to the car makers for leverage. And I'm sure no car maker wants to be left out. If 90 percent of them have agreed to damage, I can see this as yet one more bit of leverage against the holdouts. But this is all hypothetical. The information on dealings between car companies and game makers is very skimpy, and there has been only one post that I'm aware of, I believe by a mod here, who mentioned how negotiating with car companies over damage was the most lopsided and frustrating subject in the world. A few would allow roll overs. Some would allow full damage. A larger fraction would allow considerable damage. Some would allow more damage on certain models. A few refused to allow racing modifications, while some would only allow damage to race modded cars. But very few would allow a high degree of damage to full, and none would allow the passenger compartment to be damaged at all.

This is a combo of what I heard from here and the Forza boards, so you can see that getting a hundred car companies to agree on such a sticky subject with their prized products is a mess. Heck, in Forza, the amount of damage a car takes depends on the car maker and what they would allow. I have no doubt that Kazunori wouldn't accept such a situation. Hopefully some of you understand this a bit more and aren't so dogmatic that if it's not in the game, it's going to blow.
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That's a really good explanation. I feel that if Kaz does eventually include damage, it'll be an all encompassing, realistic type damage since he's such a perfectionist. No company wants their cars' passenger compartment to be crushed in a game, then who will buy their cars? It's really tough, would the people who want damage trade it for less cars in GT5? Or will they accept some cars having damage and some cars having no damage at the behest of the carmakers? Finally, adding damage models to hundreds of cars at the level that Kaz would be satisfied with would make each car take even longer to make... there are just so many problems to overcome.

I'd much rather we get a complete online and dynamic weather + other things that enhance the actual driving aspect itself, after which polyphony can spend all the time they want on damage. But that's just my opinion.
 

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