Xbox 360 Vs Ps3

[Swift]

JR and Deep. I would highly suggest you heed Live4speed's advise right away. This is just stupid banter now and to top it off...it's in the wrong thread!

If you going to argue about the amount of memory a system has then you should go to a thread dedicated to that system. If you want to argue about how a game will run better on a specific system, go to the thread about that system.

All of this makes no sense since nobody has a PS3 yet anyway.

 

[HiyakuShiro]

JR and Deep. I would highly suggest you heed Live4speed's advise right away. This is just stupid banter now and to top it off...it's in the wrong thread!

If you going to argue about the amount of memory a system has then you should go to a thread dedicated to that system. If you want to argue about how a game will run better on a specific system, go to the thread about that system.

All of this makes no sense since nobody has a PS3 yet anyway.

Enough said.

I hope they do something to improve the gameplay over the demo

 

[Swift]

JR and Deep. I would highly suggest you heed Live4speed's advise right away. This is just stupid banter now and to top it off...it's in the wrong thread!

If you going to argue about the amount of memory a system has then you should go to a thread dedicated to that system. If you want to argue about how a game will run better on a specific system, go to the thread about that system.

All of this makes no sense since nobody has a PS3 yet anyway.

I have to amend this post after re-reading it and realizing what thread I'm in.

It is stupid banter and it is pointless since you could at some point start adding the cache memory to total system memory(and we all know that doesn't count) or comparing PC's to consoles(because we all know that is apples and oranges).

However, this is the correct thread to rag on the opposing system. I'm just wondering why some of you are fighting so hard? Is your Microsoft of Sony stock at stake?

 

[Mr Deap]

I have to amend this post after re-reading it and realizing what thread I'm in.

It is stupid banter and it is pointless since you could at some point start adding the cache memory to total system memory(and we all know that doesn't count) or comparing PC's to consoles(because we all know that is apples and oranges).

However, this is the correct thread to rag on the opposing system. I'm just wondering why some of you are fighting so hard? Is your Microsoft of Sony stock at stake?

More than half the post are not based on NFS carbon. Though people never read my news & prefer to argue with me... >_>

I started the thread with exclusive news about the gameplay. Now that everybody thing the game suck, why not changing to 360 vs PS3 & let it die.

 

[Swift]

More than half the post are not based on NFS carbon. Though people never read my news & prefer to argue with me... >_>

I started the thread with exclusive news about the gameplay. Now that everybody thing the game suck, why not changing to 360 vs PS3 & let it die.

You know what, I thought something was really strange with that. But that just proves my original point even more. Also, NOBODY CARES about the stupid banter. Whether you are right or not is irrelevant. Just be cool. We all need to get along here.

 

[Jedi2016]

^^^ I can promise that the 360 AI will not be any better. In fact, I can bet you won't even notice a difference.

But I can promise that the frame rate will be better.

You're stretching now. What "facts" do you have that we don't? When the lead producer on the game says the two versions will be indentical except for improved AI on the 360, then why in THE hell would I believe YOU saying something different? Are you secretly a programmer for Ubisoft and aren't telling us?

I already know what the facts are.

Here we are with these "facts" again. Tell me, boy, how do you get this amazing "inside information"? Lemme guess... you have a friend who works at Gamestop, right?

And for the record, how about we add:

1080p
True HDMI output
Standard HDD support
Out of the Box High Def movie playback
Web Browsing

To the list of things that the 360 cannot do.

Um.. are you forgetting that the PS3 costs 25% more than the 360? Oh, that's just in the "PS3 Lite"... for the "real" PS3, it's 50% more. Boom, there's your "amazing differences" right there. It's called "more features for more money" and it's been part of the electronics business for more than half a century. They had to give us something to convince people to spend that kind of money, yeah?

Oh, and MS is giving out 1080p support for free in the next firmware update. So you can take that item off your "list".

It's funny... I never saw how equally blind the PS3 fanboys could be until I started watching the show from the other side of the fence.

I used to be like you, kid. PS3 ruled the world, and Sony could do no wrong. I was going to sell my left testicle to get a PS3 on launch day, and it was going to launch me into a state of unfettered bliss that would last no less than twenty years.

Then I bought a 360, for little more than ****s and giggles. And I'm now convinced that PS3 isn't nearly the super leap in technology that I thought it was. That, in reality, it's not that different from the box I've got downstairs right now. I've also realized that there's nothing at launch that's worth $650+ for me to play on day one. I'll be waiting and picking one up when the real game library sets in.

At this point, I'm no longer a fanboy of either system, a true "multiplatform" gamer. It's amazing how much clearer the view is from over here.

 

[LaBounti]

Then I bought a 360, for little more than ****s and giggles. And I'm now convinced that PS3 isn't nearly the super leap in technology that I thought it was.

It Certinly is an enormous leap over PS2 and Xbox combined. And still Its a leap over the 360 heance the price of the system.

That, in reality, it's not that different from the box I've got downstairs right now.

I dont know what reality you speak of but actual reality indicates the system is very different.

I've also realized that there's nothing at launch that's worth $650+ for me to play on day one. I'll be waiting and picking one up when the real game library sets in.

So you have seen and played the games then? Or are you only sold on videos? I'm not really questioning your opinions but its a very closed minded one. I have not knocked a single 360 game I haven't played.

 

[Mr Deap]

You're stretching now. What "facts" do you have that we don't? When the lead producer on the game says the two versions will be indentical except for improved AI on the 360, then why in THE hell would I believe YOU saying something different? Are you secretly a programmer for Ubisoft and aren't telling us?



Here we are with these "facts" again. Tell me, boy, how do you get this amazing "inside information"? Lemme guess... you have a friend who works at Gamestop, right?



Um.. are you forgetting that the PS3 costs 25% more than the 360? Oh, that's just in the "PS3 Lite"... for the "real" PS3, it's 50% more. Boom, there's your "amazing differences" right there. It's called "more features for more money" and it's been part of the electronics business for more than half a century. They had to give us something to convince people to spend that kind of money, yeah?

Oh, and MS is giving out 1080p support for free in the next firmware update. So you can take that item off your "list".

It's funny... I never saw how equally blind the PS3 fanboys could be until I started watching the show from the other side of the fence.

I used to be like you, kid. PS3 ruled the world, and Sony could do no wrong. I was going to sell my left testicle to get a PS3 on launch day, and it was going to launch me into a state of unfettered bliss that would last no less than twenty years.

Then I bought a 360, for little more than ****s and giggles. And I'm now convinced that PS3 isn't nearly the super leap in technology that I thought it was. That, in reality, it's not that different from the box I've got downstairs right now. I've also realized that there's nothing at launch that's worth $650+ for me to play on day one. I'll be waiting and picking one up when the real game library sets in.

At this point, I'm no longer a fanboy of either system, a true "multiplatform" gamer. It's amazing how much clearer the view is from over here.

Actually, even the Wii can output 1080P, though it will suffer from framerate or playing a game that doesn't ask much in performance. Most XBOX 360 games can only be upscaled to 1080P.

The thing is 720P with AA is fair enough to enjoy games. 1080P are for those who have huge TV that cost over 2000$(54inch & bigger or projection).

The PS3 & the XBOX 360 are a huge leap over the XBOX & PS2. Though it's not that noticable with the eyes, coz most games are tricked to death. Fight Night Round 3 is a good example. The background is blurred to death & you only see both character(Though there's other games that look way better than FNR3). Each games have it own characteristic. They make sacrifice around so the game remain playable.

The PS3, XBOX 360 & Wii all use VMX-128 instruction set. The code are the same on them. Console games are computer. Whatever what you think, you cannot gain more performance but save performance. The reason why I say that you won't see a leap on current video shown at TGS, it's because the texture weren't good overall. Texture & Shader play a big part with Unreal Engine 3 & it is the best dev tool to save performance out of the machine. Though none of the game shown in real time were using unreal engine 3. But I still believe in what I've written earlier & it won't look good on PS3.

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

You're stretching now. What "facts" do you have that we don't? When the lead producer on the game says the two versions will be indentical except for improved AI on the 360, then why in THE hell would I believe YOU saying something different? Are you secretly a programmer for Ubisoft and aren't telling us?



Here we are with these "facts" again. Tell me, boy, how do you get this amazing "inside information"? Lemme guess... you have a friend who works at Gamestop, right?



Um.. are you forgetting that the PS3 costs 25% more than the 360? Oh, that's just in the "PS3 Lite"... for the "real" PS3, it's 50% more. Boom, there's your "amazing differences" right there. It's called "more features for more money" and it's been part of the electronics business for more than half a century. They had to give us something to convince people to spend that kind of money, yeah?

Oh, and MS is giving out 1080p support for free in the next firmware update. So you can take that item off your "list".

It's funny... I never saw how equally blind the PS3 fanboys could be until I started watching the show from the other side of the fence.

I used to be like you, kid. PS3 ruled the world, and Sony could do no wrong. I was going to sell my left testicle to get a PS3 on launch day, and it was going to launch me into a state of unfettered bliss that would last no less than twenty years.

Then I bought a 360, for little more than ****s and giggles. And I'm now convinced that PS3 isn't nearly the super leap in technology that I thought it was. That, in reality, it's not that different from the box I've got downstairs right now. I've also realized that there's nothing at launch that's worth $650+ for me to play on day one. I'll be waiting and picking one up when the real game library sets in.

At this point, I'm no longer a fanboy of either system, a true "multiplatform" gamer. It's amazing how much clearer the view is from over here.

Personally, I don't appreciate your attacks, and addressing me as a child. I'm a 23 year old adult who enjoy's gaming, makes 35K a year in an area where my cost of living is 10K a year, and is currently in college with a major of graphic design and a minor in english.

So, please, if you could ever find it in your heart to be so kind, stop addressing me as child.

First off, the 360 is offering 1080p, however, at the moment it is not true 1080p output. Reasons being, as far as I understand it, has two limitations. One, there aren't many HDTV's that accept 1080p signal over component inputs. Second, when the HDMI cable "is" released, it will not be HDMI 1.3, nor do I really think it will be "true" hdmi, so to speak. I'd also like to mention MS has been very dodgey when asked about the internal bandwidth when it comes to actually processing a true 1080p image.

To put my other comments in perspective...the core 360 is $300 with no harddrive. The basic PS3 is $500. If we add an HDD to the core 360, we're at $400. Then if you mix HD-DVD into the picture, you're sitting at $600. So now you're paying the same price as a Premium PS3, with 40GB less HDD space, and no wifi (not to mention 2 fewer USB ports and no card reader slots).

My point is, you're not paying as much for the features as you would be with the 360. And, in my honest opinion, the future will make these things a requirement. I just don't see DVD lasting yet another 5 years as a video game medium. Given that it can support current technologies, the space required will be quite insufficient when you start laying down 7.1 DD, 1080p video, massive amounts of audio content, or even as games begin expanding to really take advantage of their hardware, giving us variety in texture, and adding to the atmospheric feeling we should be getting from next generation games.

I honestly think the 360 is crippled by it's features, not now, of course not, but in 3 years, I most definately think that the PS3 will far outshine the 360 as far as features, support, content, and overall value.

You mention "more features for more money" as though Sony planned on charging this amount of money from the start and then threw in Blu-Ray and other goodie bag options as an after thought. THat is not the case. The price is a result of the hardware.

The only thing right now that the 360 can do that the PS3 cannot is rumble. And honestly, that's not going to sell me when I want to enjoy high def content on my HDTV.

Then we've got the entire issue of sheer developer support when it comes to 1080p. Being that the PS3 has a native resolution output of 1080p, and the 360 does not, I do not see 1080p being widely supported for the 360. I see a lot of games being upscaled, yes, but not much native content on the way.

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

The PS3, XBOX 360 & Wii all use VMX-128 instruction set. The code are the same on them. Console games are computer. Whatever what you think, you cannot gain more performance but save performance. The reason why I say that you won't see a leap on current video shown at TGS, it's because the texture weren't good overall. Texture & Shader play a big part with Unreal Engine 3 & it is the best dev tool to save performance out of the machine. Though none of the game shown in real time were using unreal engine 3. But I still believe in what I've written earlier & it won't look good on PS3.

Unreal 2K7 was shown at E5 2005 running in real time and it looked (and ran) quite a bit better than Gears of War.

 

[KENJIusa]

I'd also like to mention MS has been very dodgey when asked about the internal bandwidth when it comes to actually processing a true 1080p image.

In case someone may wonder:

IGN : Does the Xbox 360 have the internal bandwidth between CPUs and graphics processors necessary to move a full 1080p image? There's a big difference between 1080i and the 3GB/s of 1080p.

Microsoft: No Comment.

 

[JNasty4G63]

Here is ATI's own take on the situation...

ATI did clarify that although Microsoft isn't targetting 1080p (1920 x 1080) as a resolution for games, their GPU would be able to handle the resolution with 4X AA enabled at no performance penalty.

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2423&p=2

Thats the developers of the GPU talking. I think they know full well what is possible, or not.

Hilg

 

[JNasty4G63]

...the space required will be quite insufficient when you start laying down 7.1 DD...

The PS3 will only be doing 5.1 DD for games, not 7.1 DD. It will do 7.1 for movies, but games will be 5.1 at most. Thats from Dolby themselves.

PLAYSTATION 3 will feature interactive Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound for games, Dolby Digital, and Dolby TrueHD for decoding up to 7.1 channels for Blu-ray movie playback.

http://investor.dolby.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=211947

Hilg

 

[DuckRacer]

The PS3 will only be doing 5.1 DD for games, not 7.1 DD. It will do 7.1 for movies, but games will be 5.1 at most. Thats from Dolby themselves.

http://investor.dolby.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=211947

Hilg

Then how come Resistance has 7.1 DD?

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

Then how come Resistance has 7.1 DD?

You took the words out of my mouth.

 

[JNasty4G63]

Then how come Resistance has 7.1 DD?

Not sure I can be the one to answer that. Either someone was incorrectly quoted when saying the game has it, or Dolby themselves were wrong when quoting their own specs for the machine. I merely quoted Dolby on their involvement in the console.

Hilg

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

Not sure I can be the one to answer that. Either someone was incorrectly quoted when saying the game has it, or Dolby themselves were wrong when quoting their own specs for the machine. I merely quoted Dolby on their involvement in the console.

Hilg

Considering that the quote you used from Dolby is around 1 year and a half old...I'm pretty sure it's the later half of your statement. Dolby has nothing to do with the implementation of it's technology for PS3, only that they charge sony a license fee to use it.

 

[Jedi2016]

Personally, I don't appreciate your attacks, and addressing me as a child. I'm a 23 year old adult who enjoy's gaming, makes 35K a year in an area where my cost of living is 10K a year, and is currently in college with a major of graphic design and a minor in english.

So, please, if you could ever find it in your heart to be so kind, stop addressing me as child.

Then take off your blinders and stop acting like a child, and maybe I will. This thread isn't the only place where I've noticed a less-than-adult tone in your conversations. And you're not the only one with a few years on you. I often call anyone younger than me a "kid", and as I have nearly a decade on you, you qualify.

Deap, I wasn't talking to you.

Both of you also missed the point I was trying to make. I'm not trying to say that the Xbox360 is better than the PS3, but you're reacting as if I did. I was pointing out that I've thrown off my blinders and no longer consider any one system to be significantly better than the other, as you apparently still do. You should really try it sometime.

Even if we toss all the numbers and better-thans out the window, we're still left with the games. And limiting yourself only to PS3, you're going to miss out on quite a few. In case you hadn't noticed, there seems to be a larger number of exclusive games this time around than there were last time. I've got my bases covered with both... how 'bout you?

 

[JNasty4G63]

Considering that the quote you used from Dolby is around 1 year and a half old...I'm pretty sure it's the later half of your statement. Dolby has nothing to do with the implementation of it's technology for PS3, only that they charge sony a license fee to use it.

Lets read....real....slow....now. OK? Here we go...

SAN FRANCISCO, Sep 22, 2006 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Dolby Laboratories, Inc. (NYSE : DLB) announced today that the PLAYSTATION(R) 3 computer entertainment system from Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) will support Dolby(R) Digital 5.1 surround sound for next-generation entertainment, including games and movie titles in the Blu-ray Disc format.

PLAYSTATION 3 will feature interactive Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound for games, Dolby Digital, and Dolby TrueHD for decoding up to 7.1 channels for Blu-ray movie playback.

This powerful combination of Dolby technologies allows people to enjoy movies and games in discrete multichannel surround sound on the tens of millions of audio/video receivers and home theater systems worldwide that are equipped with Dolby technology.

"The launch of PLAYSTATION 3 represents the next chapter of gaming and entertainment," said Izumi Kawanishi, Corporate Executive and Senior Vice President of Software Platform Development Division, SCEI. "Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital 5.1 complement the tremendous innovations delivered through PLAYSTATION 3, which offers the best possible high-definition entertainment experience."

"In the age of high definition, games need to look and sound better than ever before," said John Griffin, Marketing Director, Games, Dolby Laboratories. "Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital 5.1 will bring new levels of emotion and realism to movies and games. We think people will be amazed once they connect their PLAYSTATION 3 to an audio/video receiver or home theater system."

Availability

Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound and Dolby TrueHD will be supported with PLAYSTATION 3, which will be available in Japan on November 11, 2006 and in North America on November 17, 2006. For more information, visit www.dolby.com/games.

Get that ok??

Hilg

 

[JNasty4G63]

The other thing to remember is, there is no such thing as "Dolby Digital 7.1" anyway. Dolby Digital Plus can decode well over 8 channels. But, since the PS3 doesn't have it as an available codec, that doesn't help. The only native 7.1 that Dolby does on the PS3 is from TrueHD. So, unless game developers are going to start coding for TrueHD, you won't get any 7.1 out of the system in a game.

Hilg

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

"TrueHD" is the coined term by Dolby, however, it is still DD 7.1, just as there is DD5.1, the difference is just the amount of channels decoded.

But being as Cell does all the sound processing, 7.1 is completely possible, and since one game has already said they will support it, I find it absolutely hard to believe that no other game in the PS3's life cycle will support it.


Jedi - I won't respond to your comments until you get off your high horse. Your age has nothing to do with me or this debate, and your name calling, since you started it, does indeed make you look like more of a child than I.

 

[KENJIusa]

About the AI thing:

with the only noticable difference being the performance of the AI, being better... on the 360.

I can promise that the 360 AI will not be any better. In fact, I can bet you won't even notice a difference.

While the PlayStation 3 and 360 versions of Assassin's Creed are virtually identical, Raymond did say that on the 360 the team is putting a special emphasis on Achievements. And while the 360 hardware enables Ubisoft's team to use multiple threads to enhance the crowd's AI, the end result for the game on both systems will be the same. "While the method for distributing AI load is different on each platform, the AI code itself is the same. Players will experience the exact same crowd results on PS3 and Xbox360," Ubisoft explained.

So, this AI thing might not come from Ubisoft, but IMO from Mr. "I'll say anything" Peter Moore the dude.

 

[Mr Deap]

About the AI thing:


So, this AI thing might not come from Ubisoft, but IMO from Mr. "I'll say anything" Peter Moore the dude.

Anantech wrote that.

The first public game demo on the PlayStation 3 was Epic Games’ Unreal Engine 3 at Sony’s PS3 press conference. Tim Sweeney, the founder and UE3 father of Epic, performed the demo and helped shed some light on how multi-threading can work on the PlayStation 3.
According to Tim, a lot of things aren’t appropriate for SPE acceleration in UE3, mainly high-level game logic, artificial intelligence and scripting. But he adds that “Fortunately these comprise a small percentage of total CPU time on a traditional single-threaded architecture, so dedicating the CPU to those tasks is appropriate, while the SPE's and GPU do their thing."
So what does Tim Sweeney see the SPEs being used for in UE3? "With UE3, our focus on SPE acceleration is on physics, animation updates, particle systems, sound; a few other areas are possible but require more experimentation."
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2453&p=4

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

I just think it's awesome you all think that the Cell and RSX are "below" the 360 GPU and CPU.

Seriously, I couldn't be more amused. Mr Deap, I'm pretty much done pointing things out to you, as should everyone else be. It's pointless, because you constantly reference rumor and outdated source material, and deny claims from the people who make the games. If developers, who have no hand in either MS or Sony stock (i.e. 2K Sports, Sega, Bethesda, etc) all say that the PS3 handles pretty much everything the 360 does, with a little more room for performance...then there is nothing left we can say to clear your clouded judgement.

 

[JNasty4G63]

"TrueHD" is the coined term by Dolby, however, it is still DD 7.1, just as there is DD5.1, the difference is just the amount of channels decoded.

This is where you are wrong. The name "TrueHD" isn't just a clever marketing term. The technology behind both codecs are very different. Yes, TrueHD does support a greater number of channels, but that if FAR from the only difference.

The big difference, and the reason why it would be very hard to have TrueHD in games, is the fact that TrueHD is a fully lossless codec. With bitrates as high as 18Mbps, it is WELL beyond the scope of normal Dolby Digital, which has a max bitrate of 448kbps. Because of those high bitrates, both TrueHD and DTS-HD require HDMI 1.3 to transport those higher bitrates.

Because of both of those factors alone, TrueHD and DTS-HD will require a good deal of new equipment to decode. First, you need a player with HDMI 1.3 capable of outputing it. The PS3 will be a first for that, but the next wave of HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players will most likely be capable as well. Then the receiver, also has to be HDMI 1.3 compliant. If it is, it also needs to have TrueHD and DTS-HD support. If all of those things are met, you will have your full, lossless audio, in up to 8 channels.

This isn't just a new name put on the same old tech. Both of those HD formats were designed and created SPECIFICALLY for the new HD disc media. Definitely NOT just a little refresh and new name on old tech. And again, I say, there is no such thing as "Dolby Digital 7.1" as a format. There was Dolby Digital EX. But, that was just 6.1 sound, and the receiver had to be "EX" capable, standard Dolby Digital wouldn't decode it.

So, I'll say it once more. The only way you will be getting anything 7.1 out of the PS3, is if its from a TrueHD stream, and is being sent to a receiver that is HDMI 1.3 compliant, and capable of TrueHD decoding. Now, I suppose it is possible that developers could start coding for TrueHD, and thus giving you 7.1 in a game. But, with the ammount of space required FOR the sound, and the bitrate at which its processed, would make for a tough proposition in an interactive environment. It is possible, just not probable.

Hilg

 

[Mr Deap]

I just think it's awesome you all think that the Cell and RSX are "below" the 360 GPU and CPU.

Seriously, I couldn't be more amused. Mr Deap, I'm pretty much done pointing things out to you, as should everyone else be. It's pointless, because you constantly reference rumor and outdated source material, and deny claims from the people who make the games. If developers, who have no hand in either MS or Sony stock (i.e. 2K Sports, Sega, Bethesda, etc) all say that the PS3 handles pretty much everything the 360 does, with a little more room for performance...then there is nothing left we can say to clear your clouded judgement.

The Cell is superior to the Xenon. The thing you forget is the RSX is extremely weak compare to the Xenos. For graphic, the GPU play a bigger role than the CPU in most case. As you read above, the Cell do not handle the shaders & the texture decompression.

SS: In some ways, of course, naturally. We've never seen a piece of video game equipment cost this much ever [Actually, the 3DO retailed for $699 and we all know how well that went - Ed.]. It's definitely new territory, but again I look at on the arcade side, we're bringing Virtua Fighter 5 from the arcades to the PS3 in a relatively few number of months, and there is going to be very little if any noticeable degradation to the graphics. So, effectively you've got thousands of dollars worth of arcade tech in a machine that's 500 bucks, 600 bucks. So there's a lot of value in that machine.
http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=13120&page=2

The Lindbergh use a 6800 inside & the PS3 cannot get the exact same graphic though with the same brand card. weird isn't it?

 

[Swift]

Are you guys going to relax or what? This is just about the stupidest stuff ever and it happens every time two competing items come out. It was the same with Forza and GT4 before either were released. 👎

Everyone needs to tone it down or we can just do without this thread entirely.


All this talk about the technical aspects of the PS3 are rather fruitless until the system is released. Until you can look at the games and how they play, what's the point of going nuts over a systems multithread technology or dedicated AI chip?

Also, for those of you that thing the Xbox is has a better price for the hardware. Xbox 360 premium + HD-DVD = 600$. PS3 "premium" = 600$. So if you want to compare apples to apples it's even. I know that you can "choice" not to get the premium Xbox and not to get the HD DVD, but why would you? Especially since the premium has Xbox-Live, the only redeeming factor the original Xbox has in my opinion.

 

[JNasty4G63]

The thing you forget is the RSX is extremely weak compare to the Xenos.

Back that up with facts, please. If you say it is "extremely weak" comparatively, then prove that with facts on actual processing power, fill rates, shader ammounts, things like that. Not just personal opinion, or random quotes.

Hilg

 

[JNasty4G63]

I know that you can "choice" not to get the premium Xbox and not to get the HD DVD, but why would you?

Why?? Because its a lot of money. If all you want is to play games, the $300 Xbox 360 will do that just as well as a $600 setup with the Premium + HD-DVD drive.

Especially since the premium has Xbox-Live, the only redeeming factor the original Xbox has in my opinion.

Thats incorrect. You can get on Live with the base unit. You just need a memory card to save your Live profile. Now, you won't be able to download content, but you will be able to play online in any game. The only thing you CAN'T do with the base unit is play original Xbox games. The emulation for those needs to be downloaded, and with no HDD, that isn't possible. But, every other feature is possible on the base unit.

Hilg

 

[Mr Deap]

Back that up with facts, please. If you say it is "extremely weak" comparatively, then prove that with facts on actual processing power, fill rates, shader ammounts, things like that. Not just personal opinion, or random quotes.

Hilg

Those are theorical number posted at PCvsConsole. Chairmansteve pointed out the bottleneck of the PS2 way back. Though it gave him some kind of reputation for quite a number of players.

chairmansteveJune 7, 2006 - 5:47:16pm (edit: 9/21/06 - 9:20pm)1 of 31 LoginLet's look at the maximum theoretical numbers for the Xbox 360 and PS3 GPUs.

Triangle Setup
Xbox 360 - 500 Million Triangles/sec
PS3 - 250 Million Triangles/sec

Vertex Shader Processing
Xbox 360 - 6.0 Billion Vertices/sec (using all 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 2.0 Billion Vertices/sec (using only 16 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 1.5 Billion Vertices/sec (using only 12 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 1.0 Billion Vertices/sec (using only 8 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
PS3 - 1.0 Billion Vertices/sec

Filtered Texture Fetch
Xbox 360 - 8.0 Billion Texels/sec
PS3 - 12.0 Billion Texels/sec

Vertex Texture Fetch
Xbox 360 - 8.0 Billion Texels/sec
PS3 - 4.0 Billion Texels/sec

Pixel Shader Processing with 16 Filtered Texels Per Cycle (Pixel ALU x Clock)
Xbox 360 - 24.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using all 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 20.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 40 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 18.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 36 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 16.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 32 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
PS3 - 16.0 Billion Pixels/sec

Pixel Shader Processing without Textures (Pixel ALU x Clock)
Xbox 360 - 24.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using all 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 20.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 40 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 18.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 36 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 16.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 32 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
PS3 - 24.0 Billion Pixels/sec

Multisampled Fill Rate
Xbox 360 - 16.0 Billion Samples/sec (8 ROPS x 4 Samples x 500MHz)
PS3 - 8.0 Billion Samples/sec (8 ROPS x 2 Samples x 500MHz)

Pixel Fill Rate with 4x Multisampled Anti-Aliasing
Xbox 360 - 4.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 4 Samples x 500MHz / 4)
PS3 - 2.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 2 Samples x 500MHz / 4)

Pixel Fill Rate without Anti-Aliasing
Xbox 360 - 4.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 500MHz)
PS3 - 4.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 500MHz)

Frame Buffer Bandwidth
Xbox 360 - 256.0 GB/sec (dedicated for frame buffer rendering)
PS3 - 20.8 GB/sec (shared with other graphics data: textures and vertices)
PS3 - 10.8 GB/sec (with 10.0 GB/sec subtracted for textures and vertices)
PS3 - 8.4 GB/sec (with 12.4 GB/sec subtracted for textures and vertices)

Texture/Vertex Memory Bandwidth
Xbox 360 - 22.4 GB/sec (shared with CPU)
Xbox 360 - 14.4 GB/sec (with 8.0 GB/sec subtracted for CPU)
Xbox 360 - 12.4 GB/sec (with 10.0 GB/sec subtracted for CPU)
PS3 - 20.8 GB/sec (shared with frame buffer)
PS3 - 10.8 GB/sec (with 10.0 GB/sec subtracted for frame buffer)
PS3 - 8.4 GB/sec (with 12.4 GB/sec subtracted for frame buffer)

Shader Model
Xbox 360 - Shader Model 3.0+ / Unified Shader Architecture
PS3 - Shader Model 3.0 / Discrete Shader Architecture

Xbox 360 has the advantage in most cases.

Some PS3 GPU (RSX) specs are still not confirmed. It's assumed to have 24 pixel pipelines, 8 vertex pipelines, 8 ROPS (raster), and 550MHz clock speed. But any of those could change, especially the clock speed.

Are there any other GPU spec categories worth adding?

UPDATE: RSX figures were updated to represent GeForce 7 based architecture with 24 pixel pipelines, 8 vertex pipelines, 8 ROPS, 500MHz core, and 650MHz memory. In other words, it dropped from 550MHz/700MHz to 500MHz/650MHz

http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=19237