- 4,165
- United States
...........
I can't say much at this point in time.. We've had discussions of this specific statement many times before in this thread.
I can only shake my head and laugh.
Xbox Japan: "Forza 6 includes weather, night racing, 450 cars"
- Thread starter G.T.Ace
- 1,289 comments
- 68,763 views
I can't say much at this point in time.. We've had discussions of this specific statement many times before in this thread.
I can only shake my head and laugh.
- 1,789
- The Motor City
- HAL20xx
- HAL20xx
3-lap races. Static weather/time. Limited tire selection. No attempt at true-to-life motorsports rules/regulations. As much as I love the FM series, the release of Project CARS, despite its issues, has made me realize that T10 is taking this series in a much more casual direction (not a knock on the physics in any way). As their casual fanbase expands, the relative percentage of hardcore sim purists decreases and so does their focus on catering to them.
- 1,565
- New Zealand
- MHFanatik
- 1,565
- New Zealand
- MHFanatik
- 511
- Indiana
- zerosnake99
Someone was quick to think dynamic TOD was in and was vehemently defending that position. Though you seem to be 100% ok with it not being in
I'm saying it's not a technical limitation. I'm saying it's a design choice. We know dynamic TOD and weather is possible on Xbox One. Project Cars is a testament to that. Sure a 42 car grid with everything turned on drops the FPS to 30. Yes, the game is "only" 900p, but Turn 10 has the benefit of a comparably limitless budget and technological advantage when compared to Slightly Mad.
You make it sound like this is ONLY exclusive to Forza threads. Have you been in any GT thread in the past decade? It's USUALLY people complaining about things that are broken or things they want added. Whats wrong in wanting more? I expect companies to meet a certain standard.
- 1,565
- New Zealand
- MHFanatik
And who exactly sets this standard? Developers are free to make whatever the hell they want, if you don't like it don't buy it, it's pretty simple.
- 374
- Germany
SMS and T10 try to accomplish different goals first. T10 is about the 1080p and 60FPS and SMS cares about dynamic stuff going on in their games. I don't have a problem with either aproach to game development and think neither are in a comfort zone or are searching for an lazy and easy way to do their work.
- 51,768
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
PD still hasnt got the AI right. Whats more important weather change or AI? Give T10 some credit.
- 14,436
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
It must be a technical limitation, if not one game has been able to achieve it and get it running and optimized, at a technical level.
- 374
- Germany
Its funny seeing people saying that t10 is lazy, because they had to sacrifice the dynamic elements of night or weather for rock solid 60fps, but at the same time ignoring the fact, that SMS had to sacrifice a rock solid framerate and 1080p resolution to do those dynamic effects on xbox one. Game development is about sacrifice.
- 489
- England
Yeah, If that's how it's going for you I can understand your frustrations. As I said I'm on PS4 so maybe XB1 has the less clean end of the stick at the moment, but I'm sure it will improve over time. The point I was making is, in my opinion, I'm pretty much certain T10 would have done a better job with frame rate being 1st party and having only one platform to work with.
Another thing, not aimed directly at you Mr Robot, what is with all the deflection in this thread? It is what it is guys. It's not PD's or SMS' fault T10 didn't go dynamic, hell it might not even be T10's fault. I blame whoever came up with a 2 year cycle for the first game on this console thus making it virtually impossible to change the engine in that span of time... And also whoever agreed to it when they must have knew that what they are using now only leads to a dead end.
- 511
- Indiana
- zerosnake99
That standard is set by the consumer. You know, the person buying the game. That's why I said "I expect". If it meets your standard, that's fine. Also, if I had an Xbox One, I probably would buy it. GT7 isn't a tangible thing yet, so FM is usually my go to franchise after that. Even if I did buy it, doesn't mean I can't judge it, or not like certain things about it. I can make a list of things I hate in GT6, and I can do that for days.
I know their goals are different. PC has 70+ cars, FM6 has 450+. PC has 30 tracks with 110+ locations. FM6 has 100+ locations. You're right though, SMS want's everything dynamic and Turn 10 want polish. Their polish comes at a cost. A lack of variables.
Bear with my tangent for a second:
Driveclub launched as a very polished racing game. Day/night dynamic TOD with 50+ cars. The game played amazingly well, but I put that game down after a couple of weeks. When the weather patch came out, I played the game again, and it easily became my favorite car based arcade racer (lol adjectives everywhere) of all time. You can play the same track 50 times over but have a very different racing experience every single time. It blows my mind how captivated I was by a FREAKING WEATHER UPDATE.
I've put hundreds of hours on FM3 and 4, but it's always about perfecting the same track every time, in the same condition. Sure, you can choose "late afternoon" or something like that, but it was still daylight out. It was still dry out. Having static TOD and rain is doing this exact same thing. You have a big puddle that's the exact same depth every single time you go around that part of the track. It's not like it progressively gets larger, where you can still have a few chances to squeeze on the outside or inside of a turn. No, it's the same EVERY time.
Why not both? It's not like the AI team is going to be doing the physics, and vice versa. You have staff dedicated to all parts of development.
That's a false equivalence. Other than Project Cars, a multiplatform game made with a 3 million dollar budget, the only other racing sim on Xbox One is Forza Motorsport. You can't compare the two, but you can extrapolate what is possible.
- 1,565
- New Zealand
- MHFanatik
Or maybe MS and Sony are to blame for not making machines powerful enough to have both at 1080p and 60 fps. Welp, maybe on nextgen.
- 14,436
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
There is both Forza Horizon 2 and Driveclub(PS4), both achieving what they did with dumbed down physics and halfing the frame rate. I'm hopeful for a "sim" to be able to achieve what they did, but as time progress I'm starting to lean away from it being technically possible, this gen, without hiccups.
- 6,838
- Europe
- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
I can only comment on what I've seen him post.
Well, you have it for 95% of the time already. It's coming fairly solid in a few weeks
You almost, sort of in an undertone way, sound like you don't want it? That would be strange.
Those are just a few of his posts in this thread in reference to a locked 60fps. http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?31467-Xbox-press-conference/page9
Forza 6 will be a great game I have no doubt. I will be getting it day one but that doesn't stop me from wishing it included some of the great features other games have. It also doesn't stop me from wishing the others games had some of the great features Forza has
- 14,436
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
While that is true that they are different departments, I'm sure both are taxing on the console hardware. So that is probably why they did not have both. Just because you have the staff to do it, doesn't mean the hardware is able to keep up.
- 511
- Indiana
- zerosnake99
I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt on the actual hardware power and their technical expertise. Especially on a 2 to 3 year old console. If it's something like FM4 or GT6? Both of those games pushed the hardware to the limit, but nearly brand new consoles? Nah, I don't buy that notion that they can't actually put it on there.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,795
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
As long as members are following the AUP they are free to post in any thread they like.
Do not suggest that people should not post in here simply because they hold a differing views to yours.
- 14,436
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
I agree in part, I do not believe we are maxed out this gen, just yet. I'm hopeful for them to find some optimization in what they already have and they utilize it, but as it sits it could still just be a technical limitation due to the fact that they are still learning work arounds here and there.
- 1,565
- New Zealand
- MHFanatik
He's forgetting that Forza 6 is pushing 40% more pixels on screen, upgrade PCars to FullHd and solid 60 and you'll have a point, mr.Bell.I can only comment on what I've seen him post.
Those are just a few of his posts in this thread in reference to a locked 60fps. http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?31467-Xbox-press-conference/page9
Forza 6 will be a great game I have no doubt. I will be getting it day one but that doesn't stop me from wishing it included some of the great features other games have. It also doesn't stop me from wishing the others games had some of the great features Forza has
I agree with you to a point, but this is a apples to oranges comparison. SMS's 1st attempt at a next-gen multiplatform title, with the PC being the lead platform. whereas you've got a 2nd wave title from a 1st party studio with a years of experience in this category.
However, it's really only a matter of time, before we are looking at 1080px60fps which included DTOD/weather effects, either SMS's pCars2, or T10 with Forza 7. After all DG has recently stated that with a stable platform, and the team he has for the studio, anything is possible. I'm always surprised why folks make arbitrary comparisons, because each game has different strengths and weaknesses, not to mention the studios involved have different aim/goals for their franchise. T10 with F6 do seem to be at the cutting -edge of tire simulation, with simulating proper aquaplaning, 3D puddles, vertical tire-wall flexing, 100's tire compounds,and 148 different surfaces in wet weather conditions, whereas you'll find SMS are not as heavily focussed/invested on these aspect. Time/money/talent all come into play as well.
I would like to point out FH2 does have DTOD/Weather having been build off the F5 engine as a baseline, so it's definitely possible with the existing engine, but right now not at a locked 1080px60fps that T10 wants to deliver.
- 6,838
- Europe
- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
Honestly, I wouldn't hold your breath on the tyre model. They said similar things about the tyre model before FM5 and that wasn't exactly fantastic. To say SMS are not focussed/invested on tyre model is just plain wrong. They have, by some margin, the most advanced tyre model on console and one of the most advanced on PC. You are right about them being focussed on different things however, SMS have brought the first fully focussed racing sim to console, T10 are continuing to bring an all encompassing car game. Both are fantastic at what they do and we as racing game fans should be thanking our lucky stars we are gaming in such times.
- 14,436
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
- 489
- England
No, I think they're good enough to achieve a close enough to target results, you just need time and the right rendering engine. Something T10 did not give themselves or simply were not afforded. BTW My PC drops frames every now and then (due to the nature of the way the best solution for dynamic lighting works) and it makes my PS4 look like a toaster! So, unless something magically changes in the way games with time progression and weather changes, if you think next gen is going to be a flawless 60 in regards to dynamic lighting in closed circuit racers, think again.
(BTW I told you Forward+ wasn't going to cut it)
I would not cling to that hope to be honest. At 60fps it would look like complete ass compared to what they already have. The only slim hope for me is that T10 have a group of coders prototyping a new render engine as we speak. But with every release it gets less and less likely this gen because the more content created, the more content they have to recreate/rework in the new engine. You never know though.
- 1,565
- New Zealand
- MHFanatik
You're absolutely insane if you think deferred would give them a lot more performance to achieve ToD.
