Xbox One, FM5 Announced! (UPDATE, See first post!)

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PepeMickey
Your comparison is extremely dumb, MS is basically screaming right at your face that they are going to f:censored: you and you are like, thank you very much please take my money.
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First, we have no idea how much it will cost yet. Lots of cheap stuff is essentially funded by advertising. The One wouldn't be the first.

Still, it's hardly your place to tell people what they should and shouldn't buy. As you point out, MS is being pretty upfront about what they're doing. It's not like it's deceptive, you bought a console that you didn't know would be collecting information about you.

If people are OK with buying that, then best of luck to them. I'd consider it myself, depending on the price. Yeah, I don't like the monitoring. But I can think of a LOT of ways to get around it, and I'm willing to make some sacrifices for convenience if there's benefits to go along with it.

I think you're massively overreacting, AND trying to tell people how they should think. I think YOU shouldn't buy one, and you should let the rest of us make up our own minds instead of implying that we're halfwits that should bow before your towering intellect.
 
PepeMickey
Your comparison is extremely dumb, MS is basically screaming right at your face that they are going to f:censored: you and you are like, thank you very much please take my money.

I also love how you people think that bringing up irrelevant information somehow justifies what MS is going to do. Honestly, you deserve to be ripped off, go on then, go get the Xbox One, I'm sure a single videogame is worth all the bs that MS stands for.

This is why we don't get quality content anymore, if you fail to see it, you should seriously get checked my friend.
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Equate someone's mental stability to their choice of a video game console again and the only thing that's going to be checked here is your account status.
 
It is sad that such people even find their way in the Forza threads. There is no factual discussion about the XBox One on the internet anymore.
 
PepeMickey
Your comparison is extremely dumb, MS is basically screaming right at your face that they are going to f:censored: you and you are like, thank you very much please take my money.
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So you would rather have them do it in secrecy? At least I know ahead of time about the Xbox One.

Also, if your worried about things listening to you, you should probably start stocking up on TV's as voice controls are starting to be a common thing on them.

I also love how you people think that bringing up irrelevant information somehow justifies what MS is going to do.
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My point was that both companies do shady things, not that it's ok. Also, I may not buy either console if they are to expensive, plus there are still a few games on the PS3/360 I want to play.

This is why we don't get quality content anymore, if you fail to see it, you should seriously get checked my friend.
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Quality is in the eye of the beholder, there are just as many good games today as there were 20 years ago in my opinion(more if you include PC games).
 
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PepeMickey
Just a reminder. If you purchase a xbox one, then you are supporting always online DRM, always on Kinect, used game fees. A single game can't be enough to go against human principles and morality, if you are ok with this then I'm quite concerned for your mental health.
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I think what's funny is that none of these things are final, moreso hearsay and Sony themselves could do DRM, used game fees, pay to play online, etc. So if Sony does it as well, are people buying PS4 also having mental health issues? Or does it suddenly not count? Cuz Sony danced around the questions without confirming nor denying anything.
 
Rumor or truth, I can't believe how many people are going along with the online DRM idea. There's no need to insult anyone's intelligence, but I have to agree with PepeMickey, it's ridiculous to buy a game console that locks you out if you can't verify your credentials online. The concept isn't inherently evil, but it's self-centered, short-sighted (how will they let you play a game once they discontinue the XBone's online services?), and needlessly snoopy, IMO.

Let digital distribution rules apply to digital downloads only. Retrofitting physical discs with the same burden is an insult to consumers.
 
Wolfe
Rumor or truth, I can't believe how many people are going along with the online DRM idea. There's no need to insult anyone's intelligence, but I have to agree with PepeMickey, it's ridiculous to buy a game console that locks you out if you can't verify your credentials online. The concept isn't inherently evil, but it's self-centered, short-sighted (how will they let you play a game once they discontinue the XBone's online services?), and needlessly snoopy, IMO.

Let digital distribution rules apply to digital downloads only. Retrofitting physical discs with the same burden is an insult to consumers.
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Indeed. Should some of these things turn out true, I'll never own Forza 5 no matter how good it is.
 
Dmarc_Atl
[...]Yea what he said was rubbish lol .But theres a diffrence between 8 gddr5 and ddr3.The G mean graphics, so the card itself is just more optimized for graphics than the ddr3.But AFAIK they are very similar but the the gddr5 is better overall whereas the ddr3 would only be better for the cpu.
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GDDR5 has higher bandwidth (176GBps in the PS4), which is important for GPU bound applications that require massive amounts of the same type of calculations in parallel, concurrent streams (shaders, textures, etc.).

Although DDR3 has lower bandwidth (68GBps in the XBox One), it also has lower latency, which is important for CPU bound applications that require massive amounts of dynamic, serial calculations (AI, physics, etc.). XBox One is utilizing 32MB of ESRAM (102GBps) to try and make up the deficit in bandwidth.

Of course, contemporary GPU's compute units are capable of taking on more of the traditionally CPU related tasks.
 
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phillkillv2
When it comes to third party games, wouldn't be easier to develop on DDR3?
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Hardly relevant. RAM is RAM. Stuff like speed/frequency/timings/whatever matters when you're doing some low level optimization, but it doesn't really change the way you develop the game (other than taking into account performance into the mix).
 
I'll side with you PepeMickey.

I mean, I honestly thought MS had a shred of dignity. But that's fear, ain't it? There IS no rational thought when running from reality and chasing shadows. And there is no reason to take what is essiantely HAL 9000, Norman Bates and the telescreen from George Orwell's 1984 and stick it into a camera, but this is not Microsoft thinking straight. They're slowly turning insane. The Xbox ONE is essiantely that kid in school who adopts a chameleonic personality to compensate for the fact that he can't find his own.
 
Smokey Nismo
I'll side with you PepeMickey.

I mean, I honestly thought MS had a shred of dignity. But that's fear, ain't it? There IS no rational thought when running from reality and chasing shadows.
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What?

And there is no reason to take what is essiantely HAL 9000, Norman Bates and the telescreen from George Orwell's 1984 and stick it into a camera, but this is not Microsoft thinking straight.
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Neither are you apparently because that makes no sense at all. And did you really compare a camera to a fictional character based on a very real-life murderer?

They're slowly turning insane. The Xbox ONE is essiantely that kid in school who adopts a chameleonic personality to compensate for the fact that he can't find his own.
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Again, what?
 
Exorcet
Indeed. Should some of these things turn out true, I'll never own Forza 5 no matter how good it is.
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I have to say that I'm in the same boat in this regard.

The next week will very much determine if/when I buy into either of the next gen systems.
 
Scaff, what exactly has you nervous about purchasing? You always have a level-headed opinion, so I'm curious to read your thoughts.

I've thought through the 4 main negatives people are bringing up, and personally they don't bother me all that much.

1) Always On/Once Every 24-Hour Check
- This one just doesn't bother me. I don't believe that the system would be rendered useless, but I understand there may be a lack of some functionality (what that is remains to be clarified). Typically, if my internet is out, so is my power. It's going to come with built-in wi-fi so relocating it to another room wouldn't pose much of a problem either.

2) Kinect
- It can be turned off. I'm not worried about it tracking my every move and making it personally attributed to me. I imagine that what they would track is there to measure and improve the user experience. The fact that it's "always listening" doesn't bother me either, since it's only listening for the keyphrase, "Xbox On".

3) Used games fees
- Given the number of studios that have to close their doors after making ground-breaking games, I'm all for finding ways of keeping them afloat. However, I do think that digital downloads need to go the way of Steam in offering sales that are actually a good deal.

4) 360 peripherals will not work on XOne
- I agree 100% this sucks, but fortunately I have not yet purchased a wheel. I acknowledge that my feelings on this one are 100% biased due to that.
 
In one scene where it shows concept art, the Prague circuit is listed as being warm, hazy, spring, 56 degrees and next to that is a box saying 45%, but you can't make out what it signifies. Chance of rain perhaps?
 
VXR
In one scene where it shows concept art, the Prague circuit is listed as being warm, hazy, spring, 56 degrees and next to that is a box saying 45%, but you can't make out what it signifies. Chance of rain perhaps?
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I think someone posited that it was humidity.
 
HAL20XX
Scaff, what exactly has you nervous about purchasing? You always have a level-headed opinion, so I'm curious to read your thoughts.

I've thought through the 4 main negatives people are bringing up, and personally they don't bother me all that much.

1) Always On/Once Every 24-Hour Check
- This one just doesn't bother me. I don't believe that the system would be rendered useless, but I understand there may be a lack of some functionality (what that is remains to be clarified). Typically, if my internet is out, so is my power. It's going to come with built-in wi-fi so relocating it to another room wouldn't pose much of a problem either.
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Given what we know right now MS have said that if you can't get on the net you can't play games once the 24 hour cycles around. That for me is overly intrusive DRM.


HAL20XX
2) Kinect
- It can be turned off. I'm not worried about it tracking my every move and making it personally attributed to me. I imagine that what they would track is there to measure and improve the user experience. The fact that it's "always listening" doesn't bother me either, since it's only listening for the keyphrase, "Xbox On".
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Until MS clarify exactly what data is being gathered, where it is being processed and what it is used for I reserve judgement on this one. They have filed enough patents relating to what I consider to be overly intrusive uses of this for marketing and advertising applications for me to not want one in my living room right now.

While not MS, this is enough to raise concern....

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/05/politics/nsa-verizon-records/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

...over the use of what should be private information. If someone is under investigation then that is one thing, with a court order the information relating to that should be disclosed, but blanket gathering of info is not in my mind acceptable. Now I am in no way stating that this is what MS would do, I would want a lot more disclosure from them before blindly trusting them with any more of my info.

HAL20XX
3) Used games fees
- Given the number of studios that have to close their doors after making ground-breaking games, I'm all for finding ways of keeping them afloat. However, I do think that digital downloads need to go the way of Steam in offering sales that are actually a good deal.
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Given that MS have not stated that any of this fee will be going back to 3rd party studios then I don't see how its going to help them at all, nor do I believe it will help the industry at all. No while I see it as being valid for digital purchases, I do not see the reason or logic behind its use for physical media at all, rather I see it being a major risk to the retail chain and also potentially damaging to studios (given that many people will px games to fund new title purchases).

Update - they have confirmed that publishers (which doesn't automatically mean studios) will get a cut, but not how much....

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...-xbox-one-game-trade-ins-will-work-apparently

....they also will (MS) control who can and can't retail second hand games, which may run into monopoly issues in Europe if its not managed correctly. Quite frankly while this adds more detail, its not the kind of detail that reassures me at all.


HAL20XX
4) 360 peripherals will not work on XOne
- I agree 100% this sucks, but fortunately I have not yet purchased a wheel. I acknowledge that my feelings on this one are 100% biased due to that.
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This one actually bothers me the least.

Overall my issues are with the DRM, which I see as a massive mistake by MS, one on par with the blunder Sony Music made with DRM around a decade ago (and I didn't purchase titles they published with DRM on it) and with the potential uses of Kinect.

I also see little use for the TV side of the system, which seems to offer me no benefits at all over my existing AV set-up.

Now don't get me wrong Sony still have a lot to do right now as well, but overall between the two I personally see very few reasons to drop what could be a serious amount of money on system(s) that will see use for only a few game titles.

As I say, next week will be the chance both have to change my mind.
 
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Scaff
...
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1) Always On/Once Every 24-Hour Check
I completely understand that such a check can and will be problematic in a number of situations. What I don't get is people taking offense about this while saying that a form of DRM is understandable. Again, it's going a bit far on the restrictive side, but as long as you are okay with the idea that intellectual property needs to be protected, I don't see how needing an Internet connection once every 24-hour is such a big deal. Most of the people bitching about it wouldn't survive being disconnected from the Internet for more than an hour.

2) Kinect
I'm completely aware of the privacy issues involved but there are three things that bothers me. The first one is the fantasizing about the power needed to actually spy on a number of people. Those company will unlikely pay billions just to snoop on you in your underpants. The second one is that if you're really concerned that they would spy on YOU specifically (you have every right to be paranoid) you can always plug it out when you're not using it. The third one is that I bet that many of the ones rightfully fearing for their privacy ... use GMail and have a smartphone they never power off (you know that little thing you always have not far from you which conveniently includes a microphone and is always connected). I'm not saying we should allow it to continue and expand further, I'm just saying slaying the first head of the Hydra won't do you any good unless you go for the other ones (and kill the beast eventually as the heads respawn but you get the point I think).

3) Used games fees
This I just don't understand (from the company standpoint). Five years from now we well be 80 or 90% full dematerialized. What's the point in fighting a dying market ?

I think the gains are going to be very small compared to the backlash they'll get for trying to hamper some of the most basic consumer rights.

4) 360 peripherals will not work on XOne
This one, while understandable to some degree poses a number of issues regarding stuff that has little to no excuse not to be working (stuff like headsets and wheels), at least into some kind of compatibility mode which may not enable new super sleek vibration features but would still allow you to reuse hardware which is far from being obsolete from a strict technical standpoint.

Edit : Sorry for off-topic :guilty:
 
HBK
...as long as you are okay with the idea that intellectual property needs to be protected, I don't see how needing an Internet connection once every 24-hour is such a big deal. Most of the people bitching about it wouldn't survive being disconnected from the Internet for more than an hour.
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No one can predict that they will only ever want to play XBone when an internet connection is available and in working order. A million things could happen to disconnect your internet, or displace you from your current living space. Microsoft can't even guarantee that XBL will always be online! If they follow through on this plan, the first XBL outage will be nasty.

Where's the benefit in handing Microsoft the lock and key to remotely provide access to our hobby? Especially when it can go wrong so easily?
 
The 24-hour "check-in" has just been confirmed by Microsoft.
With Xbox One you can game offline for up to 24 hours on your primary console, or one hour if you are logged on to a separate console accessing your library. Offline gaming is not possible after these prescribed times until you re-establish a connection, but you can still watch live TV and enjoy Blu-ray and DVD movies.
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They've also given more detail on used games. There's too much to quote, so see below.

Article: http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/06/microsoft-details-xbox-one-used-games-always-online
 
While it still doesn't bother me, nor will it deter me from picking up a One on launch day, I can finally see how unbelievably daft and moronic it is.

The only thing it's going to do—and I had this conversation with a friend—is stifle means to pirate media for a while and once it's cracked, it's cracked. The thing publishers and developers don't seem to understand is you don't fight a battle that encourages people to smite you, you win the battle by extinguishing the desire to do so altogether.

This isn't going to achieve that.
 
Wow.

If anything, this might just be the kick in the balls that will make me move to PC or PS4. So pathetic of a company to act like this. I really hope that Microsoft re-evaluates their policy's in the future.
 
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