Your Opinions on the H-Shifter/Clutch Changes

[phil_75]

I like it from a competitive standpoint, but would have rather had them adjust the speed of paddle shifters up rather than slow the h pattern down

That makes perfect sense and pleases everyone.

So as usual..

PD - Hold my beer..

 

[Jay]

It's horrible now.

I do the vast majority of driving offline, I like use H pattern and clutch on cars that are manual but now the up shifting speed required is beyond a joke.

I truly wish a suitable comprimse can be made.

 

[CustomX]

I am loving the frequency of PD updates but really you'd think someone at PD would have tested the new shifting for like 2 minutes before pushing it live!

 

[VBR]

So, after nerfing the clutch 10 years ago in GT5 Prologue, & after a decade of complaints about it on GT Planet, they decide to nerf it some more! That is the most incredibly disrespectful decision on PD's part, & I say shame on them for doing it. The lack of common sense they display sometimes is mind boggling!

If they simply give DS4 users access to the clutch on the analog buttons; then problem solved. But no, they can't seem to think out of the black & white/all or nothing type fallacious thinking that has been plaguing them since day one. I'd really love to see the GT series taken away from Kaz & given to a game designer who actually has some understanding of what the players want & need. The depth of their stupidity never ceases to amaze & appal me...


🤬 👎

 

[cjr3559]

If anyone can find one among the heaps of complaints about the penalty system, I would like to see an example of where an H-pattern user had and edge. Seriously.

 

[Veinz]

If they simply give DS4 users access to the clutch on the analogue buttons; then problem solved. But no, they can't seem to think out of the black & white/all or nothing type fallacious thinking that has been plaguing them since day one. I'd really love to see the GT series taken away from Kaz & given to a game designer who actually has some understanding of what the players want & need. The depth of their stupidity never ceases to amaze & appal me...

🤬 👎

Copy Forza. Square to downshift and circle to upshift then assign the clutch to X so you can easily hit the clutch and change gear with your thumb at the same time.

 

[VBR]

Copy Forza, Square to downshift and circle to upshift then assign the clutch to X so you can easily hit the clutch and change gear with your thumb at the same time.

That would've worked on PS3 because all the buttons were analog. However, on the DS4 the X button is digital, so it wouldn't activate the clutch the same speed as it would on a pedal set, thus no equalizing. That's why I mentioned it would have to be assigned to the analogue buttons on the DS4.

 

[K3Tuning]

others will do as they please and vote on how it affects them, whilst not giving a stuff about anyone else.

Yeah, every "Don't like" vote, seems they would be happier with an advantage but yeah, its not about that lol sure sure.

Fairness over individuals need to pway wit my toys, anybody voting otherwise dont give a Stuff about anybody but themselves.

 

[fastone371]

Yes, you're right - everybody hates granny shifting. The granny shifting was occuring for those that were using paddle shifters/DS4 on cars that had H-pattern shifters IRL. The simple solution would be to make paddle shifts/DS4 shift faster when using those cars, then the H-pattern users wouldn't have an advantage. Now all of us have to granny shift, which is obviously silly and unnecessary.

As it is and was, paddle shift/DS4 users had the advantage when it came to downshifting. You can left foot brake, keep both hands on the wheel, and simply press a button. H-pattern users have to take a hand off the wheel while diving into a turn, and use 2 feet to operate 3 pedals at the same time - that took practice and skill to do properly, and even when done properly - it was still slower than left foot braking and pressing a button.

When I go to arcade mode time trials, I'm competing against myself, and am (was) having a blast driving cars with native H-pattern shifters and running through the gears and heel/toeing - trying to get faster and faster and having lots of fun doing it. Now I have to granny shift, and that sucks.

Well sure, I'll cry you river, but it shouldn't need to be that way. Just increase the speed of the shifts for those that don't have H-pattern shifters, and we'd all be happy.

People who play a racing game on a pad have no idea what real driving and heel/toe shifting is otherwise they would have a wheel.

As far as the pad users being happy that us wheel users got "nerfed" maybe PD should take some of the "magic" that they give DS4 users away because everyone knows how much PD dumbs down the game so DS4 users can compete with wheel users.

PD apparently thinks every manual H shifted car is like a 1950 Dodge pick up with a non synchro box. Every car made since the early 60's (at least in the US) has a synchro gear box meaning to shift you simply leave the gas pedal stuck to the firewall stab the clutch as fast as possible while jamming the stick forward or backwards to shift. There are no grinding gears and someone very adept at "rowing" can almost sound like an automatic. I have driven manual boxes for decades like that without granny shifting or grinding gears. PD really needs get it together.

 

[Veinz]

Yeah, every "Don't like" vote, seems they would be happier with an advantage but yeah, its not about that lol sure sure.

Fairness over individuals need to pway wit my toys, anybody voting otherwise dont give a Stuff about anybody but themselves.

We just want a clutch and shifter that works like the real thing, this change just makes it completely redundant. It needed to be balanced better, but you should try mastering it before trying to claim it's some massive advantage. It's really not easy as some people on this forum make it seem, especially since the clutch was already nerfed before this change.

 

[joost_wentink]

They should fire that grandma at pd who tests those TH8A and other shifters man.

 

[Leo Thorne]

Yeah, every "Don't like" vote, seems they would be happier with an advantage but yeah, its not about that lol sure sure.

Fairness over individuals need to pway wit my toys, anybody voting otherwise dont give a Stuff about anybody but themselves.

What about people who play single player?

Oh it must be a disadvantage to the Ai’s...

 

[Scaff]

Yeah, every "Don't like" vote, seems they would be happier with an advantage but yeah, its not about that lol sure sure.

Fairness over individuals need to pway wit my toys, anybody voting otherwise dont give a Stuff about anybody but themselves.

The only people who had an advantage were those who didn't use a clutch when using a H-shifter, a problem of PD's own making that could and should have been the fix (make the clutch compulsory - its not hard given that every other sim on the market manages it)

Using a clutch with a H-Pattern, particularity given how inaccurate PDs clutch modeling is, is a significant disadvantage over shifting manually with a pad. That's based just on shift speeds, without factoring in that a pad user can never miss a shift, something that is far to likely with PD's idea of how a clutch works.

This has nothing to do with people who "dont give a Stuff about anybody but themselves", but about reaching a solution that allows clutch and H-Pattern to work as they do in reality, without providing an unfair advantage. Something that PD coudl do easily simply by fixing the clutch and making its use mandatory when you have a H-Pattern.

 

[ARTAsean]

The only people who had an advantage were those who didn't use a clutch when using a H-shifter, a problem of PD's own making that could and should have been the fix (make the clutch compulsory - its not hard given that every other sim on the market manages it)

Using a clutch with a H-Pattern, particularity given how inaccurate PDs clutch modeling is, is a significant disadvantage over shifting manually with a pad. That's based just on shift speeds, without factoring in that a pad user can never miss a shift, something that is far to likely with PD's idea of how a clutch works.

This has nothing to do with people who "dont give a Stuff about anybody but themselves", but about reaching a solution that allows clutch and H-Pattern to work as they do in reality, without providing an unfair advantage. Something that PD coudl do easily simply by fixing the clutch and making its use mandatory when you have a H-Pattern.

What are you talking about? The clutch was the advantage. Using the shifter without the clutch was literally the same as using the paddles, in terms of shift speed.

This whole page is pure misinformation.

 

[Mr P]

...

 

[joost_wentink]

What are you talking about? The clutch was the advantage. Using the shifter without the clutch was literally the same as using the paddles, in terms of shift speed.

This whole page is pure misinformation.

No, de ds4 had a disadvantage.

 

[VBR]

It's almost 10 years ago since the first clutch nerf in Gran Turismo: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/did-pd-go-too-far-with-the-g25-power-shift-nerf.115757/

Before that, you could powershift without getting thrown into neutral. If anyone has a day one edition of GT5 Prologue, you can test it out for yourself...

 

[Scaff]

What are you talking about? The clutch was the advantage. Using the shifter without the clutch was literally the same as using the paddles, in terms of shift speed.

This whole page is pure misinformation.

Then the issue is the speed of shift on the paddles, as the clutch in GTS has always been slower than reality, and by quite a margin, given that you need to depress the clutch 100% for it to engage (which would in reality mean you clutch was screwed) and that you can't touch the throttle while the clutch is engaged (which again is utterly unrealistic).

That's also forgetting that you still can't ever miss-shift with the paddles, which is most certainly something you can do with the clutch + H-Shift, and ironically something you are actually far more likely to do if you drive a manual in reality.

 

[MisterWaffles]

In DualShock 4 camp, things are pretty bright in this update. Now people who have dumped hundreds of dollars on peripherals you can’t afford have lost their BS advantage and the playing field is level once again. Welcome to everyone else’s world.

I do feel a bit of sympathy for the people complaining that the realism has been lost, or feel the purchase of a shifter has been invalidated, but why were you playing Sport for realism to begin with?

 

[jjaisli]

GT's clutch implentation was always handled poorly to begin with. Games like Assetto Corsa show that it CAN be done in a way which more accurately models real world driving.

Having read the complaints on this forum I had a hard time believing it was suddenly that much worse after the last update. I just tried it for myself and just shook my head in dismay. Using a TH8 H-pattern, the cars are virtually underivable now. It's not realistic at all and what as previously an enjoyable expereince has been ruined.

I can only shake my head.

 

[Scaff]

In DualShock 4 camp, things are pretty bright in this update. Now people who have dumped hundreds of dollars on peripherals you can’t afford have lost their BS advantage and the playing field is level once again.

Except its not, its massively biased it in the other direction, to the point that its pointless to use it.

I do feel a bit of sympathy for the people complaining that the realism has been lost, but why were you playing Sport for realism to begin with?

For enjoyment (and GTS has up to this point being getting better in the realism terms).

As I mentioned in an earlier post I use paddles when in Sport mode as even with the old set-up I've never found H-Pattern to be an advantage, but when in PSVR its nice to use a car that in reality has a H-Pattern with the correct tool, that enjoyment PD have just removed utterly which I challenge anyone to spin as a positive.

 

[Veinz]

In DualShock 4 camp, things are pretty bright in this update. Now people who have dumped hundreds of dollars on peripherals you can’t afford have lost their BS advantage and the playing field is level once again.

I do feel a bit of sympathy for the people complaining that the realism has been lost, but why were you playing Sport for realism to begin with?

Why not just make the shift times quicker for the DS4/paddles on cars with manual transmissions irl instead of making the h-shifter redundant? It makes no sense to do this. This also affects the entire game, not just sport mode. Either way, this angle your playing makes no sense either.

 

[HashiriyaR32]

I've noticed how if one shifts a manual car with paddles, it seems like there's a n00b behind the wheel that doesn't know how to shift.

I'd rather they decrease the advantage as intended by doing it the opposite way it is now, as in allowing a manual car to shift with paddles almost (key word, ALMOST) as fast as doing it with an actual h-pattern shifter+clutch.

 

[Mr P]

...

 

[VBR]

So angry & frustrated right now, had to Meme for catharsis...

 

[Loverson]

I don't use these but better tell at social media or e-mai, anywhere related to PD. It's not a case of wanting a track or whatever, it's a serious matter.
Watched some these updated h-shifter videos and it looks so awkward.

 

[K3Tuning]

@Scaff thats wrong. The clutch is the advantage.

Now you are right as I said the real issue is shift speed for those cars. The GOOD THING NOW THO is that EVERYBODY has the same slow shift to deal with making it fair for all. Fair for all is what's been given priority.

Now the REAL issue can get the attention. PD can fix this for everybody adjusting those cars shift speed and such a fix if implimented would impact everybody equally. What's good tho in the mean time is its fair for everybody and if they dont fix the shift speed issue its still now fair for everybody.

And its got to be everywhere not just Sport Mode, otherwise they still have an unfair advantage in online lobbies or Time Attacks. Bullcrap..

Now the situation is everybody has to deal with the same slow shifts but people are upset they lost an unfair advantage who thought nothing wrong until now, that shows they only care now that they too are impacted and instead of the issue being PD fix the shifts for all, its boo hoo should of just left it alone.... So no I dont have any sympathy.

Its fair now, thats more important. We all got to deal with the sloppy shifters and we can all together promote it being fixed...

 

[RedRockValley]

As expected, people have come into this thread with ad hominem and false narratives.

No, we don't want to have an advantage over pad players. We just want a system that punishes neither. Good solutions have already been listed in this thread but I guess to some people, that's not enough.

 

[sma]

Why shifting manually at all. Make GT Sport automatic only. Because of the disadvantage.

 

[Leo Thorne]

Why shifting manually at all. Make GT Sport automatic only. Because of the disadvantage.

Noooo

Half of the fun of playing Gt sport for wheel users is shifting with clutch/shifter.