Your Opinions on the H-Shifter/Clutch Changes

[K3Tuning]

Nobodies critisising anybody for promoting a system that aims to punish neither. As that's what I've been saying all along too. PD should address the crazy slow shifts, but that's a issue now for everybody, nobody has a way around it.

Until now, the people who are upset here wanting it to go back the way it was VS stay as it is now until its fixed for all, until now didn't think there was an issue. It was all fine and dandy only now that they too are affected they have a problem, something needs to be fixed, shifting broken, this is not fun anymore, all that Jazz...

If that's not you, why take any offence rolling eyes ohhh whoa is me we just want our solutions we came up with since we've been affected to be heard. Those solutions are not new, people without a clutch have been having this issue with unfair advantage for a long time, welcome to the group, no snacks but sure can be a long time waiting on PD to speed up shifting, no coffee but at least I ain't giving snacks or coffee to anybody so its fair

 

[Veinz]

@Scaff thats wrong. The clutch is the advantage.

with making it fair for all. Fair for all is what's been given priority.

.

How can you say it's fair? There is no risk of missing a shift and going into neutral with the DS4 or paddles.

 

[NiZM069]

In DualShock 4 camp, things are pretty bright in this update. Now people who have dumped hundreds of dollars on peripherals you can’t afford have lost their BS advantage and the playing field is level once again. Welcome to everyone else’s world.

I do feel a bit of sympathy for the people complaining that the realism has been lost, or feel the purchase of a shifter has been invalidated, but why were you playing Sport for realism to begin with?

I'm from the opposite camp and I'll try my best to be civil. Just to give some perspective: I have a Fanatec CSL setup with gated shifter and inverted club sport elite pedals. I only play GTS for the main purpose of immersion and driving. I can care less about the "competitive aspect" of the game. I prob have 100 races under my belt with less then 10 wins. I'm a B rated driver and S rated in sportsmanship.
What keeps me playing everyday is doing laps around the Nurb 24h on various street cars in stock form with SH tires with no HUD. My online play consists of cruise lobbies where people just drive for the sake of driving and just to enjoy the cars.

This change is a giant leap away from being the ultimate driving simulator unfortunately. I understand PDs good intent and agree that H-pattern users shouldn't have any speed advantage when it comes to the competitive aspect of the game. The logical fix should have been to simply match the speed of semi-auto shifts to match that of the fastest clutch shift and not ruin the experience for people who just want to DRIVE in the most immersive way possible. Done deal.

Why do I play GTS sport for realism to begin with?

It all depends on what is an individual definition on realism. I know GTS's physics and tire model is certainly not as good as the PC titles but it's decent and believable enough for me. My priority in an immersive driving simulator was photorealistic lighting and graphics and decent engine sounds. Sure I could of gone the other path and had better physics at the expense of lesser graphics but that's what I was not looking for under my definition of realism.

Other reasons why I chose to play GT Sport:

• I've played every GT game of the franchise and owned every single games since GT 3 A-spec.
• Virtual driving especially in VR is theraputic. Coming home from a stressful days work, nothing beats a nice cruise enjoying a perfect sunset on the Nurb in 4k HDR in a 90s stock sports car or a 70s V8 muscle car just going at your own pace.
• Best in class graphics, and the revamped sound system along with a physical model I've been familiar with all my life.
• $400 PS4 + $60 for the game to simply just plug and play vs $500 - $2500 for a gaming rig
• The simplicity of the console game and GTS's UI is simply one of the best designed. I just want to choose a car simply as it came from the factory and drive it, and not have to spend hours to configure settings for the car, game, input devices, display, etc..

 

[Jens Pedersen]

Ad hominem and false narratives?

PD had to fix this ”loophole” quickly as it made FIA Nations cup this wednesday (EU/Africa) laughable. U gained around 0.5sec/lap around Dragon Trail Gardens in an N300 car with an H shifter vs padels. In a series where every tenths decides if ur able to go to a live event this summer. Thats unacceptable. I do agree that it could easily have been restricted to sport mode tho. Hopefully they Will patch this in later. So that ppl who dont take part in the competetive sceen can enjoy the game however they please.



Edit. Sry was typing when previous writer submitted his response.

Dito

 

[RedRockValley]

Ad hominem and false narratives?

I say that because some posters have insulted wheel players (ad hominem) and claimed that we dislike this change because we don't have the advantage anymore (false narrative).

PD had to fix this ”loophole” quickly as it made FIA Nations cup this wednesday (EU/Africa) laughable. U gained around 0.5sec/lap around Dragon Trail Gardens in an N300 car with an H shifter vs padels. In a series where every tenths decides if ur able to go to a live event this summer. Thats unacceptable. I do agree that it could easily have been restricted to sport mode tho. Hopefully they Will patch this in later. So that ppl who dont take part in the competetive sceen can enjoy the game however they please.

That's understandable. If that is truly the case then I hope it is fixed soon. Still irritating though, since there were easier options.

 

[Scaff]

@Scaff thats wrong. The clutch is the advantage.

Not in my hands its not, as someone who drives a manual everyday and has done for over 25 years its an utter disadvantage as it works nothing like the real thing. which is why (as I have said countless times) I don;t use it in Sport mode at all.

Now you are right as I said the real issue is shift speed for those cars. The GOOD THING NOW THO is that EVERYBODY has the same slow shift to deal with making it fair for all. Fair for all is what's been given priority.

Now the REAL issue can get the attention. PD can fix this for everybody adjusting those cars shift speed and such a fix if implimented would impact everybody equally. What's good tho in the mean time is its fair for everybody and if they dont fix the shift speed issue its still now fair for everybody.

So you acknowledge that the 'fix' doesn't actually fix the problem, just breaks something else to level the playing field and that's a good thing!

Do you not think it would be a better idea for PD to have simply shortened the speed of shifts for non H-Pattern? I mean its not as if any other sim racing title has the same issue, they have quite literally all managed to get around this.

And its got to be everywhere not just Sport Mode, otherwise they still have an unfair advantage in online lobbies or Time Attacks. Bullcrap..

Yes I'm being so unfair to everyone wanting a H-pattern that works even remotely close to reality when I'm driving around in PSVR!

Now the situation is everybody has to deal with the same slow shifts but people are upset they lost an unfair advantage who thought nothing wrong until now, that shows they only care now that they too are impacted and instead of the issue being PD fix the shifts for all, its boo hoo should of just left it alone.... So no I dont have any sympathy.

Do you think you could manage a single post without the digs and ad-hominid attacks?

Not everyone who has an issue with this is complaining because they have lost an un-fair advantage, this has been pointed out by numerous members, yet you still head back to the same false narrative. Yes some people will be, but unless you are calling a good number of members liars, then plenty simply want a H-Pattern that behaves in a realistic manner.

Its fair now, thats more important. We all got to deal with the sloppy shifters and we can all together promote it being fixed...

It broken in both areas now, which I can't fathom how that can be seen as a good thing at all.

As @sma said, forcing everyone to use AT would do the same, but would be an absurd move, this is no more a fair fix or less absurd than that.

 

[GT_Alex74]

I'm just gonna quote what I already said in the update thread :

Ok, first of all, disclaimer : trying to make the game fair for people who don't own a shifter is good. Even shifter users like me were asking for this. The solution was very simple : make the paddle / pad users shifts as fast as the H pattern shifters, and let everyone have fun in VR or lobbies with H shifters. Look, that's what even Assetto Corsa on PC, a hardcore super realistic sim, already does with its autoclutch and autoblip options. Never once I felt slower because I didn't have a clutch on my DFGT when I was still using that. They could also had just forced custom transmissions when BoP is turned on, so everyone gets a sequential gearbox. Just like they did in Paris, just like they do for the Sambabus / Fiat 500 daily races.

But NO, why be smart, Polyphony decided to just break the shifters completely and make them work the opposite way manual clutches work in real life.

Now, in the game, with cars like the Skyline R32, you have to lift the throttle more than a full second before you can even touch the pedal. Yes, in game you're grinding your gears and stay locked in neutral when you're PRESSING the clutch pedal. This is not how real life works : you get stuck in neutral when you RELEASE the clutch pedal too early.

So now H shifters are completely unusable in the game. That's going to be great for those who have a Thrustmaster or Fanatec system and threw 100+ $/€/£ in a shifter to have fun, not caring for a time advantage. Now you can't do that, you can't have try to have a more realistic experience in VR, because using a shifter has just become pure frustration.

The worst thing ? You can still downshift like a madman, 3 gears down in half a second and over-revving 6000 rpm over the revlimiter is just fine for the game, even using the clutch. But upshifting ? Don't even dare touching that clutch pedal with 0% throttle if you haven't waited 2 seconds in one of the best sportscar of the 90s - because we didn't have synchronised gearboxes in the 90s, you know.

The joke in that is they released that update the day after the FIA race it mattered for, when they could have just swapped it with another Nations round in stage 1 so that the N300 race would come after the update. The N500 meta will probably be cars that do not have a manual H pattern shifter anyway so that update probably won't change anything in FIA Stage 1.

It's a shame Polyphony can't just think for a couple minutes and just use the simple solution that doesn't actually break things. Also, that gear grinbding sound is just hilariously bad. So yeah, either they just rushed in something they didn't even tested properly (again), or they have no understanding of how cars work and need to stop trying making realistic stuff.

 

[K3Tuning]

Time Attack is Competitive always has been

Online Lobbies are Competitive why exclude it?



Now we all on board for a real solution to a long time problem.

Welcome to the support group, we want faster shifts for everybody. We've been saying it a while now, you might not of known tho since you may of only recently been affected.

Its crumby PD didn't fix the real problem. PD tends to do its own thing. At least its fair now when before the update it was not.

Hopefully recent events highlight the REAL issue and this is only the first step making it fair before they actually fix the real problem.

 

[RedRockValley]

Now we all on board for a real solution to a long time problem. Welcome to the support group, we want faster shifts for everybody.

I was already onboard for such an idea, trust me

 

[Scaff]

Time Attack is Competitive always has been

Online Lobbies are Competitive why exclude it?

Then why do they allow ABS and TC to be used, what about those that use the racing line, different views that allow some to see more around them that others?

The list of things that some people use/claim will give an advantage is huge, so unless all of these are also controlled in all of these areas then it simply strikes me as odd to single out one that can (for some) give an advantage.

Now we all on board for a real solution to a long time problem. Welcome to the support group, we want faster shifts for everybody.

So you are of the view that breaking something else rather than fixing the issue (which would have been easy) was the right thing to do.

I'm also guessing that you have not tried the new system with a H-Pattern, as to claim its provided a level playing field is laughable, its now almost impossible to consistently shift without missing a gear, its not even close to level and has simply made a H-Pattern unusable in any part of the title.

Why on earth PD can't actually simply model the correct shift speeds for cars that have a paddle system is beyond me, as that would solve the problem immediately, as most race based system (and many road cars ones) can change in the order of 100ms to 150ms, which as 0.15 to 0.1 seconds is on par with the absolute quickest you can change gear manually, yet offers the advantage of never missing a shift, perfect blips on downshift without having to heel and toe, and never having to take you hands off the wheel. For reference the quickest can shift in GTS now is around 330ms / 0.33s for a 3rd to 4th gear change, something I can do in AC or PC2 (or reality for that matter) at around 110ms / 0.11s.

Quite literally every other title around has simply modeled it this way and provided a clutch and H-Pattern that works correctly, and I have pretty much zero faith in PD fixing this given that they originally broke the clutch back in GT5 (I would love to be wrong on this).

 

[GT_Alex74]

Ho yeah, by the way, you can still use the exploit that consists of shifting up twice then down once really quickly to make shifts faster even without a shifter, as @khkenni tried again in this last update :



And this is why you want to make the regular shifts faster in the first place.

 

[K3Tuning]

Not in my hands its not,

It doesn't matter much if you are not good enough on the Gran Turismo system shifting to get the advantage, and it not being like your real car so its a disadvantage for you also irrelevant.

It can be used to gain a significant advantage over people without a clutch pedal.

This being an E-Sport fairness is a priority. Recent events highlighted how lobsided the situation was, so I believe they put in a quick fix. Maybe not the best long time solution BUT it has made the E-Sport platform more fair, this is better for everybody as its fair.

as someone who drives a manual everyday and has done for over 25 years its an utter disadvantage as it works nothing like the real thing. which is why (as I have said countless times) I don;t use it in Sport mode at all.

Yeah, I drive a manual too, in a 890kilo car with a engine swap that barely fits, custom big turbo set up pushing 465whp, shifting custom gears through a LSD. So what.

I care more about GTSport being fair for all in TT, OL, & SM that VR stuff is still just fluff in this title.

So you acknowledge that the 'fix' doesn't actually fix the problem, just breaks something else to level the playing field and that's a good thing!

No it doesn't actually break something else, it closes a loop hole so that everybody has the same broken shifting. Yes that's a good thing. We all can collectively promote the Fix we've been saying is needed for a long time, welcome aboard.

Do you not think it would be a better idea for PD to have simply shortened the speed of shifts for non H-Pattern? I mean its not as if any other sim racing title has the same issue, they have quite literally all managed to get around this.

No

This could possibly make things worse, I dont code video games but I can see possible issues where that solotion would create the need for another fix that creates the need for another fix and on and on. Lets say they increase the speed of all shifters without a clutch but clutch users take advantage of a faster shift too potentially if fast enough. Who knows, this may be step one to the solution implimenting a sort of delaying system on the clutch before speeding the shifting up cuz if they speed the shift up first before a clutch delay (since we can assume even if fixed they will not be insta shifts but a delay) it would give more advantage not get more fair.

Can if all day long, what they have done made it more fair.

Yes I'm being so unfair to everyone wanting a H-pattern that works even remotely close to reality when I'm driving around in PSVR!

Its a E-Sport game. Fairness in E-Sports is more important than your PSVR experience.

Do you think you could manage a single post without the digs and ad-hominid attacks?

Not really digs, maybe I just have thicker skin and dont get huffed over nothing let along call them "digs" The school yard crowd would not be impressed with me lol

Not everyone who has an issue with this is complaining because they have lost an un-fair advantage, this has been pointed out by numerous members, yet you still head back to the same false narrative. Yes some people will be, but unless you are calling a good number of members liars, then plenty simply want a H-Pattern that behaves in a realistic manner.

Swell if they are on the push fir a solution for all, welcome to the Group, what the problem is? Oh right, boo hoo, now your impacted so its better the way it was before.... No sympathy from me, thats not a dig, thats just facts, shouldnt be anything to get over either, not where Im from at least, if I were to cry about that kind of stuff the boys get curious if Im packing a vagina.

It broken in both areas now, which I can't fathom how that can be seen as a good thing at all.

Cuz its fair for all vs broken for everybody but those with clutch pedals.

I can't fathom how its so hard to understand.

If a system is broken and all screwed up, its still a FAIR system if EVERYBODY is screwed by that broken system equally.

As @sma said, forcing everyone to use AT would do the same, but would be an absurd move, this is no more a fair fix or less absurd than that.

Lmfao less absurd? Thats absurd.

 

[graveltrap]

To be honest I have no clue as to why a shift is good or bad in GT Sport now, I should simply need to put the clutch in move the lever and release the clutch, not wonder about a hidden conditions that say yay or nay.

The grinding noise whilst awful is something that the game needed!

PS they can make using the paddle shifters instantaneous for all I care!

Edit - It’s not the clutch that makes a shift fast, it’s the ability to move the lever through the gate more quickly than the time given for a paddle shift

 

[CustomX]

I just pray that someone at PD actually reads this thread and they put out a patch in a few weeks that reverts it to how it was and then they put some resources into making the clutch work properly. 18 months after launch isn't ideal but it'd still be great. And its still the best computer game ever made so lets keep perspective!

 

[khkenni]

Ho yeah, by the way, you can still use the exploit that consists of shifting up twice then down once really quickly to make shifts faster even without a shifter, as @khkenni tried again in this last update :



And this is why you want to make the regular shifts faster in the first place.

Just a little info about me and this video.
-I was an EMEA finalist last year.
-I got 2nd in 2nd split last Nations cup race (with a shifter yes).
-I love driving in games, I never expected to be competitive in GTS.
-I often drive in VR with H pattern cars just enjoying driving.
-I love figuring out weird things in games.
-I made the list of the keyboard controls for spectating/replays.

I know very well how the game works, so once I saw that they "fixed" the shifters, I went to try it out, turns out they ruined all the fun you could have with shifters... I then immediately wanted to test some of the known glitches revolving shifting, because there are exploits you can use to go about as fast but without a clutch.
I knew 100% I could shift faster than normal by manipulating the game a bit, I just wanted to prove that they ruined shifters without actually removing the advantage.

How to shift faster.

-For paddles: Shift up twice, downshift once.
-H pattern: Shift to the gear above the one you want to go in, then downshift to the correct one.
-H pattern and paddles together: Use the H pattern to go 1 gear higher than you want, then downshift with the paddles.

 

[Scaff]

It doesn't matter much if you are not good enough on the Gran Turismo system shifting to get the advantage, and it not being like your real car so its a disadvantage for you also irrelevant.

No its 100% relevant for me.

It can be used to gain a significant advantage over people without a clutch pedal.

And a way around it (that doesn't involve the clutch or shifter) has already been found. PD's 'fairness' fix has already been defeated.

This being an E-Sport fairness is a priority. Recent events highlighted how lobsided the situation was, so I believe they put in a quick fix. Maybe not the best long time solution BUT it has made the E-Sport platform more fair, this is better for everybody as its fair.

How hard would it have been to simply lock out H-Patterns from those events? Or speed up the shifts?

Those are easy and logical fixes, this is a kneejerk reaction that has in reality fixed nothing.

Yeah, I drive a manual too, in a 890kilo car with a engine swap that barely fits, custom big turbo set up pushing 465whp, shifting custom gears through a LSD. So what.

I care more about GTSport being fair for all in TT, OL, & SM that VR stuff is still just fluff in this title.

Pity it actually isn't now.

No it doesn't actually break something else, it closes a loop hole so that everybody has the same broken shifting. Yes that's a good thing. We all can collectively promote the Fix we've been saying is needed for a long time, welcome aboard.

I ask again, have you actually tried it with a H-Pattern and clutch, because it most certainly has.

No

This could possibly make things worse, I dont code video games but I can see possible issues where that solotion would create the need for another fix that creates the need for another fix and on and on. Lets say they increase the speed of all shifters without a clutch but clutch users take advantage of a faster shift too potentially if fast enough. Who knows, this may be step one to the solution implimenting a sort of delaying system on the clutch before speeding the shifting up cuz if they speed the shift up first before a clutch delay (since we can assume even if fixed they will not be insta shifts but a delay) it would give more advantage not get more fair.

Can if all day long, what they have done made it more fair.

Given that I can give you a list of titles that have managed to do this and have it work, as well as the fact that an exploit has already been found in PD's 'fix' that undermines this more than a little.

Its a E-Sport game. Fairness in E-Sports is more important than your PSVR experience.

To you, not to me. Each and every one of us purchases a title for a specific reason and you're valid use doesn't overide mine or anyone's else.

Not really digs, maybe I just have thicker skin and dont get huffed over nothing let along call them "digs" The school yard crowd would not be impressed with me lol

It about mutual respect and the AUP, you agreed to it when you joined, re-reading it may be an good idea.

Swell if they are on the push fir a solution for all, welcome to the Group, what the problem is? Oh right, boo hoo, now your impacted so its better the way it was before.... No sympathy from me, thats not a dig, thats just facts, shouldnt be anything to get over either, not where Im from at least, if I were to cry about that kind if stuff they bois get curious if Im packing a vagina.

Nope, not facts, simply unneeded digs (and some misogyny - well done)

Cuz its fair fir all vs broken for everybody but those with clutch pedals.

I can't fathom how its so hard to understand.

If a system is broken and all screwed up, its still a FAIR system if EVERYBODY is screwed by that broken system equally.

Its not fair for all, because as has been pointed out its rendered the H-Pattern useless in every part of the title and already has been exploited.

Lmfao less absurd? Thats absurd.

Nope. Its an example of the exact same logic as you are using. You demand a level playing field in one regard, why not in other regards? All cars should be forced to use the driver aids they have in reality, only one view should be used, etc, etc.

Demanding fairness in only one area, but dismissing it in others is simply an example of supporting personal bias. You want the manner in which you play to be the only way to play.

I just pray that someone at PD actually reads this thread and they put out a patch in a few weeks that reverts it to how it was and then they put some resources into making the clutch work properly.

Given the last 'fix' to H-Pattern and Clutches (which resulted in unrealistic clutch behavior) happened in GT5: P, then I'm not going to hold my breath.

18 months after launch isn't ideal but it'd still be great. And its still the best computer game ever made so lets keep perspective!

Its fun, but I wouldn't personally go that far.

 

[MisterWaffles]

The end of the things I have to add to the conversation:

Unless PD can come up with a solution to fix the H-Shifter camp’s issues while also keeping it so that shift speeds are balanced with controller camp, I don’t want this change “fixed” or backpedalled. I’ll only accept another change if the H-shifting gets improved while the controller users also get a much needed buff. Until then, keep it this way please because it makes the N-class nations races less of a farce.

 

[Veinz]

I can only imagine this being temporary until they change it again because I don't believe PD is this stupid.

 

[VBR]

I can only imagine this being temporary until they change it again because I don't believe PD is this stupid.

People said the same thing 10 years ago when they first nerfed the clutch, & they didn't change it. Believe it, PD sometimes does things this stupid.

I also find it shows utter disregard & contempt for clutch users. PD can be so thoughtless at times...

 

[Duppy Gee]

They should have added a delay to the manual shift. So you shift as quick as you like but the car only selects the gear when it's ready. The amount of times I've shifted and found neutral, then tried again and again while people rear end me cause I'm not going anywhere. I haven't tried the new shift yet.

 

[Litchi]

I use a Fanatec setup without clutch/shifter.
I voted "like" cause it was a real advantage for those who use the clutch/shifter in daily A.
I'm A+ ranked and couldn't keep the pace in straights due to this advantage with lower ranked drivers.
However, I totally understand drivers' disappoinyment who just play for fun with the clutch.

 

[K3Tuning]

No its 100% relevant for me.

Yeah but what's relevant to me and you, our priorities wants and needs are not relevant.

What is relevant is that an E-Sport platform be a level playing field for everybody playing, unfair advantages are not in the best intrest of the title.

And a way around it (that doesn't involve the clutch or shifter) has already been found. PD's 'fairness' fix has already been defeated.

I guess its an ongoing battle eh

How hard would it have been to simply lock out H-Patterns from those events? Or speed up the shifts?

Because TA and OL is still competitive. And things working that significantly differently based on mode is IMO silly.

Those are easy and logical fixes, this is a kneejerk reaction that has in reality fixed nothing.

The playing field is level and all the many tired of the unfair advantage given to clutch users think its a welcome fix to a loop hole...

Pity it actually isn't now.

It sure is as far as the cheesy loop hole is now closed.

Now the slow shifting is something that needs to be looked for a speed up IMO but PD may think its fine slow. Either way their loop hole closing sure did make it more fair.

If you only thought NOW there is an issue, sorry to say welcome aboard the PD speed up those shifts bandwagon. I am glad until PD do if ever they do, its more fair now than its been.

Given that I can give you a list of titles that have managed to do this and have it work, as well as the fact that an exploit has already been found in PD's 'fix' that undermines this more than a little.

Each game is different, just play those if you want to use your clutch the way you like. Gran Turismo has a issue with slow shifting cars. Its just now a problem for everybody.

To you, not to me. Each and every one of us purchases a title for a specific reason and you're valid use doesn't overide mine or anyone's else.

Those reasons dont matter. Mine or yours. PD has its own vision its own objectives priorities n all that.

It about mutual respect and the AUP, you agreed to it when you joined, re-reading it may be an good idea.

Im sorry if youve at all felt uh not sure what to put here, Ill leave it black, you fill it however you like.

In sorry if you've at all felt _______, I have no intentions to ________ you. So far my biggest "digs" have been cry me a river, no sympathies and boo hoo. Hardly anything to get mad at other than you dont like my position. I dont like yours, so I guess that makes us even (0_0) ?

Nope, not facts, simply unneeded digs (and some misogyny - well done)

Ouch that was some HARD CORE stuff, Im sorry about that Bud, didnt mean to hurt your feelings. Those were in fact Digs, unneeded Digs on top of it. Im ashamed of myself.

Misogyny, what because I dont have a vagina?

Its not fair for all, because as has been pointed out its rendered the H-Pattern useless in every part of the title and already has been exploited.

Not sure if you understand what fairness means Bruh. Your just bit-----complaining about how you don't like how slow the shifts are, Welcome to the club, now you know what driving these cars without a clutch is like. Hit the shift and a year later the gear change is made.

Its Now fair because your in the club too with no more clutch pass to get around it anymore

Kinda getting pleased now thinking about it but that's mean.

Nope. Its an example of the exact same logic as you are using. You demand a level playing field in one regard, why not in other regards? All cars should be forced to use the driver aids they have in reality, only one view should be used, etc, etc.

No no, that's absurd, funny and a few other words too if only these titles could get by on the niche market alone. They need the casual users to make money. I dont mind. If not for them we wouldnt have the platform.

Demanding fairness in only one area, but dismissing it in others is simply an example of supporting personal bias. You want the manner in which you play to be the only way to play.

Um how's Warrio doing these days?

The change makes it fair for everybody at the expense of your personal biased preferance, not at the expense of fairness but to its benefit.

Your suggesting to keep it unfair so that you may preserve your personal preference, that's selfish.

 

[L_Kesan]

Why restrict the changes just to Sport Mode?

Why so the advantage can still be had in online lobbies and Time Trials?

Boo hoo you hate granny shifting, so does everybody else even more so the guy in the same car who has to granny shift while yous take advantage of an uneven playing field.

No sympathies, cry me a river, lets keep it fair and I dont care about people upset they lost their cheesy advantage.....

How is it advantage when you have to:
- hold clutch down (lose ability to possibly apply brake in time if needed)
-hold steering wheel (that can FFB you into shadowrealm anytime) with only one hand
-whilst you shift with other hand
-make sure it goes into correct gear
-make sure it is actually in and not loose (as thats recognised as neutral)
-make sure to release clutch at correct point and revmatch (if needed)

all you have to do is press button and all of the above is done for you whilst you can still apply brake without interuptions and slow downs,
have smooth input on steering.

H-shifter users put themselves at much bigger risk of miss-shifting or (as with the current state of clutch in game) chance of completely ruining your race if the gear doesnt even go in on your 4th attempt (believe me its easy to lose 15 seconds when youre about to hit long straight)

and all this just for a chance of being quicker at something. if anything it sounds more like petty DS4 crybabies have finally gotten what they always cried about even if it means ruining the experience of people who are not at fault.

Me and my friend bought wheels around same time i got it with h shifter. And honestly we had equal times and bumper to bumper races most of the time. apart from when i miss shifted because I tried to shift too quick but the game won't have any of it.

PD is just being lazy and instead of reworking the clutch to work as it should and improving ds4 shifts little bit they decide to punish the ones that can allow themselves to pay more for more realistic experience. whats gonna be next? ds4 GTS edition will be nerfed because their batteries last longer? or your controllers will be physically inspected to make sure nobody has any modifications to it? split the lobbies and sport mode for wheel and controller users and keep the game as is ? (in the end being alone in sport mode won't affect your DR-so why not split it by assists and age of driver and played horus and more that will keep it fair ) or lets keep it fair by giving DS4 users 2% chance of missing a shift but match their shift speed to the ones of wheel users

never used Hshifter in sport mode and only use Hshifter on cars like Lambo miura or 996 porsche and that is for the pure enjoyment of when you shift perfectly. but might as well stop playing now since that relax ride is ruined too

 

[jjaisli]

The playing field is level and all the many tired of the unfair advantage given to clutch users think its a welcome fix to a loop hole...

But it's not level. That's the whole point. Either you simply don't understand or you're being purposely obtuse. It's not just that the patch forces those with H-pattern shifters to slow, but if you're just a fraction too quick, you miss the shift entirely and it throws you into neutral, forcing you to reengage the clutch and shift back into the gear. If it would somehow just delay the shift it would be annoying but as it is now it's completely broken. Imagine if trying to drive with the DS4 and shifting too quickly and having it throw you into neutral. That hardly makes it a level playing field.

PD have put themselves into a hopeless position. You're NEVER going to have complete parity between wheel users and DS4 users. Frankly, it's an open question if even using different model wheels gives one an advantage. The only way is to have everybody on the same equipment.

 

[SDSPOWER01]

The playing field is level and all the many tired of the unfair advantage given to clutch users think its a welcome fix to a loop hole...



It sure is as far as the cheesy loop hole is now closed.

Now the slow shifting is something that needs to be looked for a speed up IMO but PD may think its fine slow. Either way their loop hole closing sure did make it more fair.




Each game is different, just play those if you want to use your clutch the way you like. Gran Turismo has a issue with slow shifting cars. Its just now a problem for everybody.










Not sure if you understand what fairness means Bruh. Your just bit-----complaining about how you don't like how slow the shifts are, Welcome to the club, now you know what driving these cars without a clutch is like. Hit the shift and a year later the gear change is made.











The change makes it fair for everybody at the expense of your personal biased preferance, not at the expense of fairness but to its benefit.

Your suggesting to keep it unfair so that you may preserve your personal preference, that's selfish.

I don't know how you can call this a "fair level playing field" while clearly it shows with evidence that your losing time as you shift with this new "fair" fix.



Maybe the loop hole is closed or if not the other side has an advantage over manual stick users now, not to mentiom the % of missshift is now higher then it was.

I don't know how anyone would see this as "fair"as it only damages clutch users and instead of making it fair for all.

 

[K3Tuning]

Its nice to see some people were clueless to the loop hole and didnt take advantage of it. Your being unaware of it dont really change the fact many were aware and exploited it. Also finding work arounds to get back the advantage lost or some of it anyways is just highlighting how some look for those advantages to exploit and thus its a continuous struggle closing loop holes.

 

[Scaff]

Yeah but what's relevant to me and you, our priorities wants and needs are not relevant.

What is relevant is that an E-Sport platform be a level playing field for everybody playing, unfair advantages are not in the best intrest of the title.

And once again the patch has failed to do that, as its shifted the balance massively the other way and opened up exploits.

I guess its an ongoing battle eh

Because TA and OL is still competitive. And things working that significantly differently based on mode is IMO silly.

And yet that's whats now happened as its broken the use of the H-Pattern.

The playing field is level and all the many tired of the unfair advantage given to clutch users think its a welcome fix to a loop hole...

And yet that's not whats happened.

I've asked you numerous times now and you have repeatedly avoided answering. Have you tried a H-Pattern and clutch in GTS since the patch?

It sure is as far as the cheesy loop hole is now closed.

Now the slow shifting is something that needs to be looked for a speed up IMO but PD may think its fine slow. Either way their loop hole closing sure did make it more fair.

Except, as numerous members have been telling you, its not made a fair balance, its shifted the balance the other way and opened up exploits.

If you only thought NOW there is an issue, sorry to say welcome aboard the PD speed up those shifts bandwagon. I am glad until PD do if ever they do, its more fair now than its been.

When did I say that?

Each game is different, just play those if you want to use your clutch the way you like. Gran Turismo has a issue with slow shifting cars. Its just now a problem for everybody.

Why should I not be able to play and discuss the titles I like?

Those reasons dont matter. Mine or yours. PD has its own vision its own objectives priorities n all that.

They do indeed, but given this is a dicsussion forum, I will discuss the effect that has on my enjoyment of the title.

Im sorry if youve at all felt uh not sure what to put here, Ill leave it black, you fill it however you like.

In sorry if you've at all felt _______, I have no intentions to ________ you. So far my biggest "digs" have been cry me a river, no sympathies and boo hoo. Hardly anything to get mad at other than you dont like my position. I dont like yours, so I guess that makes us even (0_0) ?



Ouch that was some HARD CORE stuff, Im sorry about that Bud, didnt mean to hurt your feelings. Those were in fact Digs, unneeded Digs on top of it. Im ashamed of myself.

Misogyny, what because I dont have a vagina?

I will let the staff deal with it as they please.

Not sure if you understand what fairness means Bruh.

I have two brothers and you are neither of them.

Your just bit-----complaining about how you don't like how slow the shifts are, Welcome to the club, now you know what driving these cars without a clutch is like. Hit the shift and a year later the gear change is made.

As I've said repeatedly I use the H-Pattern and clutch only in cars with them in reality and only outside of Sport mode, as such I know exactly what its like, and unlike you I am also in a direct position to make a comparison between the two.

Its Now fair because your in the club too with no more clutch pass to get around it anymore

Kinda getting pleased now thinking about it but that's mean.

No no, that's absurd, funny and a few other words too

Um how's Warrio doing these days?

The change makes it fair for everybody at the expense of your personal biased preferance, not at the expense of fairness but to its benefit.

Once again, nope as the balance has moved to far the other way and has opened up exploits.

Your suggesting to keep it unfair so that you may preserve your personal preference, that's selfish.

I'm really not sure how you missed it at all, but I've not suggested this at all, quite the opposite I have repeatedly covered other methods that would have resolved this issue without breaking another part of the title.

 

[Pigems]

The biggest advantage didn’t come from using the H shifter alone apparently, there were/are tricks/glitches in the way people were using it that made it even faster than it should have been. People could switch back and forth between shifter and paddles constantly for the quickest shift. From what I’ve read people using these tricks would downshift with the paddles because it was faster and eliminates missed gears, but upshift 1-2 and 2-3 with the shifter because it’s faster than the paddles shift, but shifts 3-4, 4-5 and 5-6 would again use paddles because the game simulates those shifts fairly quickly in most cars and it removes the chances of a missed gear.

But this it where the real trick happens, most cars have one shift that is the slower than the rest, in a lot of cases it’s 1-2 or 2-3, for this example let’s say the cars slowest shift is 2-3. Here how it works, your in 6th gear and coming to a hairpin, so what you could do was downshift with paddles to 4th, then downshift to 3rd with the stick, then use the paddles again to down shift to 2nd from there for the corner leaving the stick in 3rd, then when exiting the corner instead of using the paddle or stick(because this is the cars slowest shift) to upshift you just hit the clutch and because the stick is in 3rd already the cars skips instantly into 3rd, eliminating the slowest shift, then use paddles again the rest of the way to 6th.

Or from the standing start, again we’ll use shift 2-3 as the cars slowest shift. Before the start you put the stick in 3rd, then downshift to 1st with the paddles, race starts and you take off in 1st, use paddles to shift to 2nd, then when it time for the slowest shift to 3rd you again just hit the clutch and the car jumps to 3rd near instantly and you shoot ahead of others using paddles/DS4’s.

PD should have nerfed these glitches, not the clutch/shifter.

 

[Leggacy]

I think they should put it back how it was and adjust the gear ratios in sport races which would mean the clutch has no effect.

 

[SDSPOWER01]

Its nice to see some people were clueless to the loop hole and didnt take advantage of it. Your being unaware of it dont really change the fact many were aware and exploited it. Also finding work aroundss to get back the advantage lost or some of it anyways if just highlighting how some look for those advantages to exploit and thus its a continuous struggle closing loop holes.

Many people that uses manual with clutch wanted this fixed in the first place (as you can read above from many of said members) but you seem to constantly deny or overlook this and say that now because of this patch people are seeing it as an issue NOW.

No there are numerous threads and discussions showcasing how bad the clutch was implemented in the game before this update, but this patch has seemed to make it far worse by damaging clutch users.