Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Dravonic]

More than just Toscana though; Kaz was quoted as saying it will apply to Sarthe. Or the the 24H Nurburgring circuit. I can't remember, but one of them.

True, I remember something about Nurburgring 24h races having full day/night cycles. Don't remember if it came from Kaz though. Anyway, considering he loves it more than any other track I think it's safe to assume he would want it to have every feature

 

[Conquerer]

Hate to burst your bubble, but some others or if not all of the cars have flat, blacked out under sides. The two examples are well known premiums; ASL Garaiya & 2010 Jeff Gordon Nascar Chevrolet.

It's natural for racing cars to have simple, flat black undersides:

Have you got proof of this, or was this just the site speculating? (That the prologue cars are definately all premium)

P.S. I'm not fooling myself, I am just curious why PD would put 1 of the 200 premium cars as a suzuki cervo, because it makes no sense.

Prologue cars have next generation detail, fully recreated interiors, cockpit views, clear windows, etc. What more do you need as proof that they're premium? The standard cars we've seen so far are basically GT4 ports, aren't as smooth and finely detailed, have blacked out windows and blocky wheels. Also keep in mind that this whole "premium" thing is not new. Back when Gran Turismo HD was announced, the newly created cars like the Ferrari 599 (which ended up being in Prologue) were premium, and the GT4 ports were classic. It's the same thing now, just that we have way more premiums and "classic" cars are now referred to as "standard" cars. Without a doubt, Prologue cars are premium models. Otherwise, what is the point of the GT4 ports?

And how does a Suzuki Cervo make no sense as a premium model? That's just something you don't agree with, yet that's the way Gran Turismo has always been. GT has always featured lower end cars like the Cervo, so it's only natural they have some lower end premiums for the full game to keep the distribution more balanced. Why would they change that now? Premium has absolutely nothing to do with the performance of the car, but instead simply the way it looks (and possibly sounds).

 

[Tornado]

It's natural for racing cars to have simple, flat black undersides:

Sprint Cup cars don't, though.

 

[Conquerer]

Sprint Cup cars don't, though.

Yeah, I know, but that screenshot is very dark and it's hard to see if anything could be there. If not, maybe they haven't got around to the undersides yet (at least at the time of that video) since they hadn't shown any NASCAR rollover yet, and I believe all the undersides will be the same. They haven't even shown a Dodge yet so clearly NASCAR is still a work in progress.

 

[G.T.Ace]

No, but that picture above doesn't prove anything though, the quality is extremely bad and theres a shadow. NASCARs are also kinda simple, just not black.

EDIT: Too slow.

 

[TokyoDrift]

Otherwise, what is the point of the GT4 ports?

To shut up the ungrateful souls who think that 200 cars in a game is far too low, despite only ever sticking to a handful of their favourites in past games.

 

[SSJNeBiRoS]

At least not all the cars will have just a flat black bottom, in the same video, just a few second after, we can see this:

 

[Griffith500]

^ That is one cool pic. ^

NASCAR Sprint cup car:

Briefly going back to standard vs. premium tracks, I think it's highly possible.
However, dynamic time of day will probably be available on all of the newly (re)modeled circuits; i.e. Roma, Madrid, Dunsfold Aerodrome (Top Gear), Nürburgring, La Sarthe, Suzuka, Eiger, Toscana, London, Fuji, Daytona, Indianapolis etc.

Simply because it's the rendering "engine" that allows for the dynamic shift in lighting, so all new circuits will have been assembled with this engine in mind, from the start.
GT4 circuits will be running on this engine, if they do appear, so a dynamic time of day can be quite "easily" implemented (it's just geometry after all) but the pre-baked textures might look a bit odd - a perfectionist's hell?

Hopefully the track time won't be exclusively determined by the system clock; options please!

 

[TallPaul]

Std & Premium tracks? where has this ever been mentioned? Some tracks will be the same that were in GT4, some will be new, that is all.

Regarding the time of day, wasn't it confirmed a while ago that you'll be able to sync the track's time on the ps3 to the current real time?

 

[Griffith500]

Std & Premium tracks? where has this ever been mentioned? Some tracks will be the same that were in GT4, some will be new, that is all.

Regarding the time of day, wasn't it confirmed a while ago that you'll be able to sync the track's time on the ps3 to the current real time?

It's conjecture, yes, because of the "premium" labels that appeared on the tracks in demos; just like they did on the cars.

I was stating that I hope this isn't the only way to set the circuit time

 

[TallPaul]

It's conjecture, yes, because of the "premium" labels that appeared on the tracks in demos; just like they did on the cars.

I was stating that I hope this isn't the only way to set the circuit time

I've not seen this "premium" label on any videos, just looked at the comic-con vids on the front page and none of the tracks have this label, so it's news to me

The option to sync was confirmed along with a few other details:

Polyphony Digital is working on reducing load times and is still tweaking graphics ahead of the November release date.
The game has nearly filled all of the space available on Blu-Ray disc.
You’ll have the option to synchronize the game’s time of day with the track’s current local time.
The crowds will be dynamic, so there will be more tents, cars, and motorhomes at longer races.
Yamauchi admits his team may have “actually gone too far in modeling some of this detail” and suggested it might be “more suited to the next generation of PlayStation.”
Both high and low-beam headlights will be included, so you can flash slower cars as you’re about to pass them (how awesome will this be during the 24 hour races!?!). All lights will illuminate dirt, smoke, or other debris in the air.
NASCAR insisted that all of their series’ cars be playable on all circuits in the game.
It was previously mentioned that only 9 NASCAR cars will be included, but this was incorrect. There are simply 9 cars in the E3 2010 demo, but “many more” are coming.
With the exception of profanity, all of the Nurburgring’s*graffiti*has been re-created, just as it is in real life. According to Kotaku, they will attempt to keep the graffiti up-to-date before the game is shipped.
Players will be able to maintain an online profile to share and watch friend’s progress and statistics.
All cars (including standard models) will accumulate dirt and will have functional horns.
More information will be revealed at Gamescom in Germany on August 18-22.
“While racing the 24 hours of Nurburgring, you can smell people’s barbecues — we couldn’t recreate that.” — Kazunori Yamauch

If there's the option to sync the track time, but night/day transitions don't exist on every track, then what would be the point in this feature?

 

[JDMKING13]

I've not seen this "premium" label on any videos, just looked at the comic-con vids on the front page and none of them have this label, so it's new to me

The option to sync was confirmed along with a few other details:


If there's the option to sync the track time, but night/day transitions don;t exist on every track, then what would be the point in this feature?

There was tracks with the premium label, but I think it might just mean they are freshly built. but I like what I read never saw that thanks. 👍

 

[TallPaul]

There was tracks with the premium label, but I think it might just mean they are freshly built. but i like what i read never saw that thanks 👍

Ahh that's cool, I'm not reading anything into it. I think the lack of any 'real' news is getting to everyone

 

[Dravonic]

Briefly going back to standard vs. premium tracks, I think it's highly possible.
However, dynamic time of day will probably be available on all of the newly (re)modeled circuits; i.e. Roma, Madrid, Dunsfold Aerodrome (Top Gear), Nürburgring, La Sarthe, Suzuka, Eiger, Toscana, London, Fuji, Daytona, Indianapolis etc.

Simply because it's the rendering "engine" that allows for the dynamic shift in lighting, so all new circuits will have been assembled with this engine in mind, from the start.
GT4 circuits will be running on this engine, if they do appear, so a dynamic time of day can be quite "easily" implemented (it's just geometry after all) but the pre-baked textures might look a bit odd - a perfectionist's hell?

One thing that makes me skeptical about day/night cycles in all tracks are the shadows. Creating shadow maps is a big GPU time consumer as far as I know. Since the light sources in prologue don't move, you don't have to create shadow maps for the scenery in real time and can use pre-baked ones. But with GT5's day/night cycles you must calculate them. If you look at the Toscana track it appears to be made in a way to minimize the objects around the track and thus is simpler to calculate shadow maps for, and let's not forget rally races have only two cars.

Now when we take into account that the PS3 already struggles with city tracks like London and it's 12 cars without day/night cycles, it's kinda hard to believe that GT5 with it's cars with double the polygons can pull off calculating shadow maps at 60fps in tracks like Rome and Madrid. Not to mention there's lights everywhere at night and the smoke which catches lights and shadows... The more I think about it, more impossible it seems.

But if it's true that the Nurburgring has day/night cycles, than PD somehow pulled it off.

If there's the option to sync the track time, but night/day transitions don't exist on every track, then what would be the point in this feature?

To synchronize the time in the tracks that do have this feature?

By the way, where is that from?

 

[Tenacious D]

Well, are they one-piece models? Sorry, two-piece if I count wings/spoilers? Do they have actual panel gaps or just painted on?

I know you can't stand the thought of painted on textures like body panel gaps, but there has been a never ending feud running about how more accurate and detailed even GT4 cars are over the latest Forza. And believe it or not, I didn't start it, I've been a spectator through it.

Can I view a GT5 Standard at remotely the same zoom as an FM3 car and get the same amount of texture quality and lack of jaggies? That picture of the Evo up close actually proves my point pretty clearly. I didn't even have to load up GT4 myself. 👍

Well, snap some pics of Forza 3 race cars zoomed in and then we'll both know. I don't think my Live Gold is any good now, and I sure don't have several hours to burn just to snap a couple of images from F3 to make you happy. If you don't have Forza 3 and a 360, maybe a friend of yours does, or maybe you're just content to assume it's light years better, and leave it at that.

On that McLaren shot, yep. Only the bottom, mind.

It was the best I could do with the limited camera angles offered in GT4. When I get a free roaming camera in GT5, I'll see if I can crop less "sloppily."

Where did I say there was degradation?

Perhaps you can clarify this:

It's encouraging you'll be joining in on the photo galleries, but you aren't the first person who's dabbled in real-life photography there. Since I've spent the majority of my time on GTP in that particular section, it's really quite easy to spot unedited GT4 images. They aren't impressive, graphics-wise; there's a reason a fair amount of us use Photoshop, lightly or extensively. I suggest you take a look at some of the top galleries (sort by views), because statistically speaking, its very unlikely you've found some secret portion of the game that shows these images at a higher level of quality than what anybody else has already found. Plus, it always looks better in-game.

And then there's this little snippet...

All that said, GT4 Photomode pictures are still valid comparisons for this talk, since so far the Standards have been those models. The nice thing is that GT5's blurs are far more accurate, so it saves us a lot of time not having to PS a proper blur in. The reflections are high-res, so no more having to fix those either! The only issue, if Standards aren't given higher-res textures by release, is cleaning up muddy textures.

Changing your tune in the course of the debate a scouche?

No, it isn't, but I don't use it as an excuse to endlessly post my own images to self-congratulate. I put those where they belong.

And how "endlessly" do I post images to "self-congratulate"? Or is it perhaps to the less stubborn among us, that they might see Standard cars as something other than a crime against high definition, as I said previously, since they weren't even being submitted for your approval any longer? Or do you even remember those statements?

What "essence" are you talking about? I can make out quite everything fine. You're completely missing the point if you misread "resizing minimizes flaws" as "I can't see things". This kind of off-on-a-tangent stuff as an attempt to get away from the actual point is not surprising from you.

And how am I attempting to avoid anything? If I was, don't you think I'd be using Photoshop to minimize "damage"? Or perhaps using it to sabotage Forza images?

I can see the images well enough, evidently you can too. So I'm assuming you're making things up to force a point.

Another example of your poor discussion logic. You were able to dig up Luminis' post from 80 pages ago... but how come you didn't quote my response to it?

Well, some of us do have to work for a living, and I was skirting lateness - and failing, so my apologies. I didn't see anything in my brief hunt after Luminis' post.

Oh. Now I see why you just assumed instead of actually quoting me. Not to mention "these cars really have no business being in GT5 when you get down to it because they're just one step up from bricks" isn't remotely the same as "I feel some would accept black bricks as cars as long as they are featured in a GT game...". Perhaps you really should stick to painting because reading comprehension isn't working too well.

Actually, it seems the one who enjoys self-congradulation isn't me. You know, there is a saying for people who find themselves incredibly wise in their own eyes...

Edit: well gee, just a few posts below Luminis'...

I wouldnt accept black bricks , but the standard cars do look acceptable to me because they look much better than they did in GT4. If the standard cars still had the GT4 graphics quality I too would be crying about it on here too though.

Which is exactly why people are complaining, because other than a shiny layer of improved reflections, they are GT4 cars.

I suppose because it wasn't me saying this, you didn't jump all over the bold part...

In any case, I don't know if this is going to aggravate you, but to get back to the thread topic a bit, I want to reiterate my support of not just Standard Cars, but Standard Tracks as well. Just like I want those Standard cars to race in GT5's advanced physics, I also want as many tracks to race on as possible. And if that means porting over and touching up classic tracks from the previous GTs, I'm all for it. If they wouldn't support real time light transitions or weather, I still want them. As others have said, a wealth of tracks is at least as important as a wealth of cars.

 

[TallPaul]

One thing that makes me skeptical about day/night cycles in all tracks are the shadows. Creating shadow maps is a big GPU time consumer as far as I know. Since the light sources in prologue don't move, you don't have to create shadow maps for the scenery in real time and can use pre-baked ones. But with GT5's day/night cycles you must calculate them. If you look at the Toscana track it appears to be made in a way to minimize the objects around the track and thus is simpler to calculate shadow maps for, and let's not forget rally races have only two cars.

Now when we take into account that the PS3 already struggles with city tracks like London and it's 12 cars without day/night cycles, it's kinda hard to believe that GT5 with it's cars with double the polygons can pull off calculating shadow maps at 60fps in tracks like Rome and Madrid. Not to mention there's lights everywhere at night and the smoke which catches lights and shadows... The more I think about it, more impossible it seems.

But if it's true that the Nurburgring has day/night cycles, than PD somehow pulled it off.

To synchronize the time in the tracks that do have this feature?

Surely though if you can sync the track time to its current local time, then a simple preset night/day/dusk/dawn setting wouldn't be enough, as depending on the time of day the sun would be in a different position in the sky hour by hour.
Basically, if you can set the track time to any time in the day, then the full movement of the sun across the sky (and therefore shadows moving) must be in the game...

By the way, where is that from?

It was confirmed in the private session Kaz held at E3 👍

Also the night racing on the Nordschleife was in the demo at the 24hr nurburging race event, it's in the news section on here 👍

 

[Dravonic]

Surely though if you can sync the track time to its current local time, then a simple preset night/day/dusk/dawn setting wouldn't be enough, as depending on the time of day the sun would be in a different position in the sky hour by hour.

What I mean is, the "sync to track time" feature would work only in select tracks.

Basically, if you can set the track time to any time in the day, then the full movement of the sun across the sky (and therefore shadows moving) must be in the game...

Yes. As far as I know, to make the shadows move they consume a lot of resources, so to speak. That's why I'm skeptical about them moving (therefore having day/nigh cycles) in all tracks.

It was confirmed in the private session Kaz held at E3 👍

Also the night racing on the Nordschleife was in the demo at the 24hr nurburging race event, it's in the news section on here 👍

I think you mean this. This is definitely were I heard about Nurburgring's day/night cycles but unfortunately it points only at nigh racing, not day/night cyles. And the way the guy phrased it, he may not even be talking about the Nurburgring.

 

[JDMKING13]

What I mean is, the "sync to track time" feature would work only in select tracks.



Yes. As far as I know, to make the shadows move they consume a lot of resources, so to speak. That's why I'm skeptical about them moving (therefore having day/nigh cycles) in all tracks.



I think you mean this. This is definitely were I heard about Nurburgring's day/night cycles but unfortunately it points only at nigh racing, not day/night cyles. And the way the guy phrased it, he may not even be talking about the Nurburgring.

Well that because we didn't learn about day and night cycles until later. If you put that information together with what we know now the ring will have day to night transition in my strong opinion.

 

[Akira AC]

I think you mean this. This is definitely were I heard about Nurburgring's day/night cycles but unfortunately it points only at nigh racing, not day/night cyles. And the way the guy phrased it, he may not even be talking about the Nurburgring.

I think you wrong on that one,if they make the whole illumination for day and night and have a show of night/day translation,is obvious that night/day transition is available for that track.

 

[Tenacious D]

It depends on what magic the team have been able to accomplish. If they've managed to do a well done and yet efficient virtual sun lighting system, it could work in every track. Plus there would be little or no need for "shadow" textures. I'd think it would work well on slightly less detailed Standar Tracks, if we get those.

"Efficient" is the key word though, as the better lighting system will require more Cell resources and clock cycles to render properly. But it is possible that they've found a magic "sweet spot" that won't hurt the game's performance. The safest bet is for most lighting to be fixed for the duration of the race, such as GT4's Nurburgring, which has a partly overcast sky, but the clouds never move. Still, Kaz has told us to expect a few surprises, so let's hope.

 

[Dravonic]

Well that because we didn't learn about day and night cycles until later. If you put that information together with what we know now the ring will have day to night transition in my strong opinion.

I think you wrong on that one,if they make the whole illumination for day and night and have a show of night/day translation,is obvious that night/day transition is available for that track.

It definitely hints at day/night cycles on the Nurb, but if this standard car confusion teach me anything, it is to not assume anything at all. So I'm sticking to the safer side

 

[gtracedriver]

Std & Premium tracks? where has this ever been mentioned? Some tracks will be the same that were in GT4, some will be new, that is all.

Regarding the time of day, wasn't it confirmed a while ago that you'll be able to sync the track's time on the ps3 to the current real time?

There is nothing known as standard or premiums tracks people are just imagining things because of that menu from older version video

All tracks will obviously will be improved even if they did to make it from scratch. I think Day and night cycle option will also be there. I am hoping they have an option where we can choose which time of the day we want to race. That would be really

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I know you can't stand the thought of painted on textures like body panel gaps, but there has been a never ending feud running about how more accurate and detailed even GT4 cars are over the latest Forza. And believe it or not, I didn't start it, I've been a spectator through it.

*sigh*

Okay. I'll pretend 4000 poly models with low-res textures are somehow more accurate. Whatever. I've said a few times Standards are great considering what they're working with, and that FM3 does have some bunk models (the S2000 and R32 are the first two that come to mind). Painted on panel gaps, by dint of existing, can't be as accurate as a multi-piece model.

Well, snap some pics of Forza 3 race cars zoomed in and then we'll both know. I don't think my Live Gold is any good now, and I sure don't have several hours to burn just to snap a couple of images from F3 to make you happy. If you don't have Forza 3 and a 360, maybe a friend of yours does, or maybe you're just content to assume it's light years better, and leave it at that.

Sadly, the only friend who owns it somehow doesn't play it online. Don't ask me... I don't know why he would do that either! Point is, I don't need to. A quick look at the FM3 boards, either the official one or even the smaller one here, shows plenty of images of race cars, far more zoomed in than possible in a GT4 image or GT5 Standard. Forza's texture resolutions are so much higher that their stickers can be that much clearer. And their poly count means the bodies can be that much smoother. I really don't see how that's such a hard pill to swallow.

It was the best I could do with the limited camera angles offered in GT4. When I get a free roaming camera in GT5, I'll see if I can crop less "sloppily."

Eh, I've ran into the same problem. We better be getting a free-roam, and I'll be especially annoyed if Kaz forces this stupid "Walking Simulator" on us in the Photomode locations.

Perhaps you can clarify this:

Again? See what I mean?

"There are two levels of detail depending on if it's a race shot or a Photomode location. There is a difference in tone and gamma compared to TV and my PC, which is why most people bumped the EV up to ~0.6 in-game, but other than that, yes, they saved the same."

Save an image with the EV set to 0.0, and it will look darker and duller on your monitor. That's all I meant by "better", which I suppose was vague.

And then there's this little snippet...

Changing your tune in the course of the debate a scouche?

Nope. But I'm getting to that.

And how am I attempting to avoid anything? If I was, don't you think I'd be using Photoshop to minimize "damage"? Or perhaps using it to sabotage Forza images?

...and the (I can only hope intentional) misunderstanding continues!
By saying I'm having seeing issues simply because I'm not saying GT4 images are "lifelike"? Hell, going further back, where did JDM even say I'm having "seeing issues" to begin with? Him and I don't see eye-to-eye on some things, but the dude's quite possibly one of the most positive-minded people here. All he asked was why I didn't mention the 350Z. He didn't even mention the Zonda in relation to me. Stop grasping at straws and come to an argument head-on for a change.

I can see the images well enough, evidently you can too. So I'm assuming you're making things up to force a point.

I don't lay down to the idea that a GT4 image, by default, is superior, so obviously I'm making things up.

Well, some of us do have to work for a living, and I was skirting lateness - and failing, so my apologies. I didn't see anything in my brief hunt after Luminis' post.

I'm actually usually posting from work. Not saying I'm actually working, of course!

Actually, it seems the one who enjoys self-congradulation isn't me. You know, there is a saying for people who find themselves incredibly wise in their own eyes...

Go on. Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me how

"these cars really have no business being in GT5 when you get down to it because they're just one step up from bricks" (a quote you attributed to members)

is equal to

"I feel some would accept black bricks as cars as long as they are featured in a GT game..."

I'll wait.

I suppose because it wasn't me saying this, you didn't jump all over the bold part...

Actually, I've changed my mind, and this is the last time I'm having this discussion with you, because you've made it abundantly clear, whether intentional or not, you don't feel like actually reading my points so much as remodeling them in your head how you deem fit.

GT5 Standard images, as a whole, don't bother me. The track detail, the lighting, the blurs, the reflections, they all do their parts to bring the whole picture up. And provided the cars aren't too close to the camera, the obvious tell-tales of them being last-gen will be kept to a minimum. My issue has been with the models themselves. That's it. The last-gen assets, and how in terms of both poly count, and texture resolution, they do not compare favourably to any number of current-gen games. Not only does this put them behind the competition in terms of graphics, the basic makeup of these Standard cars means they are simply not able to take advantage of the features set Premiums can. No physical damage, no properly light-generating headlights, no interiors, no chance at extensive body modifications.

This relates to why I'm fine with GT4 pictures being used to illustrate my point. Because from everything PD themselves have showed us, we are getting those models. "But the lighting system makes them look better" isn't a valid counter-argument because I'm not discussing the lighting. Just the models. Maybe eventually you'll figure it out. Until then, if you're going to keep grabbing at random straws and avoiding directly answering any of my points, I'm done with trying to talk logic with a PD-obsessive.

In any case, I don't know if this is going to aggravate you, but to get back to the thread topic a bit, I want to reiterate my support of not just Standard Cars, but Standard Tracks as well. Just like I want those Standard cars to race in GT5's advanced physics, I also want as many tracks to race on as possible. And if that means porting over and touching up classic tracks from the previous GTs, I'm all for it. If they wouldn't support real time light transitions or weather, I still want them. As others have said, a wealth of tracks is at least as important as a wealth of cars.

...and even stranger... I'm in agreeance about tracks. Import all the GT4 ones, and maybe throw some quick improvements in (like the more realistic grass and sand from Prologue). Why? Whether or not people race in bumper cam, they're still seeing the car models at points in the game; as opponents, in their garage, in replays, etc etc. And besides, the cars are the stars in GT. The tracks? I don't need them at an insane level of detail, because when am I going to be looking at them closely? Hopefully never! I do need variety for tracks because once the total car count passes a couple hundred cars, what matters more for replayability is the track count.

he track modeling in GT4 is pretty detailed anyways, and its basic construction methods, I would think, mean it should be able to be brought into the new game relatively easily. El Capitan, for example, doesn't need an entire rebuild from the ground up, as Standard and Premium cars show. It'd need a good chunk of texture work done, and all the necessary fixes to deal with ToD... but the part we race on? Yeah, it still works 👍

 

[gtracedriver]

I think it is too early to make comparison between Forza and GT5 standard cars. But I agree with Tenaicious D and the pics he has shown

Here is Forza HD replay. First of all the nurburgring is Forza is crap, the gloomy dark looks make it worst, you can also say they are not good in replays either like GT. Forza is not really a looker TBH.


If you take some pic from this video and compare it with standard car video just for the sake of comparison. Which looks something like this. I will honestly go with GT
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/8609/gt5std2.jpg

 

[Lucas]

Frankly, I like that Forza 3 video more than the GT5's standard cars video. But that's my opinion.

And some people seem to be forgetting that this isn't GT5 Standard cars vs Forza 3 cars, it is GT5 Standard cars vs GT5 Premium cars. And the differences in modelling (not texturing) between GT5-S and GT5-P are important. And I'm pretty sure that's a fact. Then again, it's my opinion. ^_^

 

[Nero9]

And again this turns into a Forza vs GT thread!
Now please, let's go back ON-TOPIC for the last time.

 

[Spagetti69]

I even think the mods have given up on this thread.

Better to have all nonsence, so to speak, in one thread.

 

[analog]

And some people seem to be forgetting that this isn't GT5 Standard cars vs Forza 3 cars, it is GT5 Standard cars vs GT5 Premium cars. And the differences in modelling (not texturing) between GT5-S and GT5-P are important. And I'm pretty sure that's a fact. Then again, it's my opinion. ^_^

Agree, whatever the differences between certain games are ( and which you prefer ) the differences between cars in the same game ( being the game most here will be playing I guess ) or game-series is most relevant.
I'm planning on playing GT5, not Forza3 ( because I only have one console ) so whichever I consider the most accurate in terms of graphics is a bit pointless as the possible differences I will actually notice whilst playing will be the ones found in GT5.
Whatever the outcome of the console war if that's even worth fighting for, I already made my choice for now and sticking to it.

 

[JDMKING13]

I think it is too early to make comparison between Forza and GT5 standard cars. But I agree with Tenaicious D and the pics he has shown

Here is Forza HD replay. First of all the nurburgring is Forza is crap, the gloomy dark looks make it worst, you can also say they are not good in replays either like GT. Forza is not really a looker TBH.

If you take some pic from this video and compare it with standard car video just for the sake of comparison. Which looks something like this. I will honestly go with GT
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/8609/gt5std2.jpg

I never was to fond Forza3 replays, but as a whole I think the standard cars video looks better. The cars are so dark in FM3 and plastic like. After watching that video I really cant understand how some say standard models don't look like current gen, even though they can't touch the premiums They look just as good as that FM3 Video IMO.

 

[Akira AC]

My god,you guys should keep it on topic, standard car will not looks as well as Forza 3 cars period,there is a lot of other things to discuss about,get over it people,the silly statements and replies and the whole FM vs GT is becoming irritating,if your thought is that GT standard will look as best as FM3 cars then is not a thought is an pinion and should stay in that way,no complement or keep ignited the fired several times,I can bet that today we will see another round of FM images vs GT images,well is up to the mods but this thread died ages ago.

you people should get over it, that is not that big news any more and everyone knows about it,and this is not the FM bashing thread