Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Spagetti69]

But where else can the kids play.

 

[JDMKING13]

My god,you guys should keep it on topic, standard car will not looks as well as Forza 3 cars period,there is a lot of other things to discuss about,get over it people,the silly statements and replies and the whole FM vs GT is becoming irritating,if your thought is that GT standard will look as best as FM3 cars then is not a thought is an pinion and should stay in that way,no complement or keep ignited the fired several times,I can bet that today we will see another round of FM images vs GT images,well is up to the mods but this thread died ages ago.

you people should get over it, that is not that big news any more and everyone knows about it,and this is not the FM bashing thread

Yes master I well hold you to that bold statement.

 

[eSZee]

I even think the mods have given up on this thread.

Better to have all nonsence, so to speak, in one thread.

They haven't given up. They have warned people numerous times to stay on topic and not deviate into the fm vs gt discussions. I'm thinking that at this point they're just checking the forums and making lists of who to get rid of. They gave a few threads numerous warnings on the same day and nothing changed.

 

[cuco33]

Off-topic: a few days ago I borrowed GT2 from a friend. I played for a few minutes since I don't have a PS1 memory card, and I have to say I was extremely happy seeing the cars that made me (excuse the redundancy) happy at the time. Changing from GT2 to GT4 minutes later made me remember how great those cars looked like when I first saw them on YouTube videos. So as you can see, we can say what we don't like about GT, but that doesn't make us any less fans of the game because of that.

Not to stir trouble but youtube launched shortly after GT4 launched. Unless of course you were in Europe where GT4 launched in June of 05, maybe you were thinking of something else?
I agree though that going back from GT1 thru the series to GT4, the visual quality (and gameplay as well) gets better and better. I felt shorted by GT4 as many things people have wanted didn't come through, from online to damage. But now, GT5 is having it all it seems and I'm stoked for it's release.

 

[Exorcet]

I'll echo what others have said in that outsourcing means a more difficult task regarding quality-control. But it's more than that, really, in the sense that PD would lose their freedom to do things their way; the company that is sourced to do the extra work will require strict guidelines to get the work done to; particularly the balance between quality*quantity and time allocated - they won't take kindly to changes during that period of time. In short, PD's own employees can work harder on it for longer and essentially do a better (controlled) job (according to Kaz's ever-changing target "vision").

Who here has their own idea of the perfect game, and the simmering inclination to actually try to make it (as I do)? Think about areas where you'd have to compromise the game - how willing would you be? The fewer compromises you are willing to make, the longer it'll take to make the game. GT has taken more than 15 years so far. This is fine, so long as the end product is perceived to have been worth the effort (only the devs really know what effort has gone into the project).


Equally, if anybody here has dedicated a good portion of their lives towards a singular goal in a similar way to what Kaz has, perhaps you're in a position to question his methods - and you probably should, directly. I mean this sincerely.

Thus endeth this sermon.

From the way I see it, outsourcing is a producer/consumer relationship. PD would be the customer, examining various would be outsource modellers for quality. After deciding between the competition, PD would define a requirement, and if the requirement isn't met, the modellers get axed. This is no different from what happens in the aviation industry.

A company building a plane may not have the resources to make a particular component, they outsource. Now, there is a risk that the outsourced work would be subpar, but the chances of such a thing can be greatly reduced by testing the abilities of outsource group. Also, by communicating with the group, the customer can examine how they are doing, and at the first sign of trouble, cut them off.

Basically I'm saying that PD will lose total, 100% control over the project if they outsource, but in no way do they leave things up to chance either. Had they sat down and considered in from the beginning, I think it could have been done without much pain.

 

[Spagetti69]

^^^ I think they only had 60 million Dollars to spend though.

 

[Exorcet]

Time can be a resource.

 

[Spagetti69]

Time can be a resource.

Then they've had plenty of resource.

 

[Devedander]

^^^ I think they only had 60 million Dollars to spend though.

I believe $60 million was where it clocked in a few years ago... reports are it will be more in the $80 million range by the time we see release.

 

[analog]

I believe $60 million was where it clocked in a few years ago... reports are it will be more in the $80 million range by the time we see release.

With the time it took to develop you might need to calculate inflation as well.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Yes master I well hold you to that bold statement.

I genuinely hope you (or someone, because it's bound to happen) will when November 2nd comes .

With the time it took to develop you might need to calculate inflation as well.

Hell, forget all this talk of outsourcing or hiring more modelers. After $80 million and almost 6 years, PD could've just paid to put a bunch of kids through school and taught them their specific way of modeling!

 

[Akira AC]

I believe $60 million was where it clocked in a few years ago... reports are it will be more in the $80 million range by the time we see release.

And also calculate the payment of copyrights,they have to pay for NASCAR licensing,also WRC and the top gear test track,the Lamborghini badge and in some cases the cities rights to make the tracks(that is why GTA uses fictional liberty city instead of New York)and in some cases the licence of some real world tracks(like Daytona and indianapolis wich not include the NASCAR licensing).

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> I'm sick and tired about this debacle. Even some people are saying about Standard & Premium HELMETS!!!!

Standard Helmet

Premium Helmet

^ "Some say it still wants Rubens Barrichello's head as a rear view mirror accessory...and it thinks that GTPlanet is the World's most powerful nation." - All I know its the STIG.

BT-> Does anyone notice the FT-86 video (I know its an old vid), on the Fuji circuit that the AE86 was a standard car, while the FT-86 was a premium car?

Skip to 1:40 to see what I mean

 

[eSZee]

With the time it took to develop you might need to calculate inflation as well.

I can hear it now. "Back when GT5 development started, gasoline was only a Quarter per gallon and a gallon of milk was 5 cents. Oh those were the days."

BT-> Does anyone notice the FT-86 video (I know its an old vid), on the Fuji circuit that the AE86 was a standard car, while the FT-86 was a premium car?

[

Yes, months ago.

 

[analog]

Hell, forget all this talk of outsourcing or hiring more modelers. After $80 million and almost 6 years, PD could've just paid to put a bunch of kids through school and taught them their specific way of modeling!

Hmmm, a somewhat scary and slightly disturbing thought but if it meant all cars would be Premium by now it's something worth contemplating I guess...
Does that make me a bad person?

 

[Tornado]

Hell, forget all this talk of outsourcing or hiring more modelers. After $80 million and almost 6 years, PD could've just paid to put a bunch of kids through school and taught them their specific way of modeling!

"Sony spends $80 million on amateur eugenics to develop perfect modelers. GT6 to be developed in two weeks."

 

[maxpontiac]

I would want to compare those at a more "normal use" size.

I understand the forum has limitations on what's acceptable and most of us have computer monitors smaller than our TVs, but honestly, a LOT looks good when it's small enough. Shrink it down to 320x240 and you might have problems picking Premium Gt5 cars from Gt4 cars IN Gt4.

Essentially showing small versions on a computer monitor isn't really the best test of quality when in reality most of us will be playing them on much larger screens even when accounting for seating distance.

Ironically, 90% of the time I am accessing this site through via my PS3 and 65" HDTV.

It's why I absolutely love the 18mp screen shots that Jordan publishes in the news section. Now while I understand that most if not all of 18mp screens feature Premium models, I am not to concerned over the the issue you bring up.

I know the cars will look alittle better then the GT4 screens, and to be honest, it's good enough for me.

 

[Lucas]

Not to stir trouble but youtube launched shortly after GT4 launched. Unless of course you were in Europe where GT4 launched in June of 05, maybe you were thinking of something else?

I knew there was a chance someone wouldn't understand me. No problem. 👍 I got my PS1 in 2005, if my memory doesn't fail me. I played GT2 for two years before I sold my PS1 in 2007 and bought a PS2 the same year, mostly because I wanted to play GT4, after seeing videos of it on YouTube, just like this one, which I believe was one of my favorite GT4 videos before I had a chance to play it myself.

I hope that clears any doubts. 👍

 

[JDMKING13]

I genuinely hope you (or someone, because it's bound to happen) will when November 2nd comes .

You can talk about the Models Slip Im talking about the whole picture. If you think that replay looks better than the standard replay thats cool I respect your opinion. Not me like I said the cars look dark and plastic. I will give you credit on teaching me about the model situation with the standard cars, however with GT lighting system and accurate car modeling It help the cars appearance a whole lot. The only time FM3 looks really good is when a good photographer takes pictures in Photo mode and they can play with the lighting. During races and replay.. Hopefully we get some action of standard cars at GC.

I know the cars will look alittle better then the GT4 screens, and to be honest, it's good enough for me.

I would say A lot better. 👍

 

[gtracedriver]

I never was to fond Forza3 replays, but as a whole I think the standard cars video looks better. The cars are so dark in FM3 and plastic like. After watching that video I really cant understand how some say standard models don't look like current gen, even though they can't touch the premiums They look just as good as that FM3 Video IMO.

Yeah you are right. What I love about GT is the authenticity. Their cars, tracks are more accurate than others. The camber changes it is not fun at all. This is just wrong not like real thing. This video also shows the length is wrong?


I know it is funny but GT4 is more accurate lol. Very nice video. It starts from 1:36


I have to admit I was not too thrilled to know about standard cars. Hopefully GT6 we will get all or most premium with top-notch accuracy. Even in GT4 they were so ahead of others so GT5 they will make sure it is more realistic

 

[Tenacious D]

And again this turns into a Forza vs GT thread!
Now please, let's go back ON-TOPIC for the last time. (resized to less ridiculous proportions)

I think you guys who can't stand to have Forza mentioned whatsoever need to understand something.

• Forza games are out now. We can get our hands on them amd use their Photo Mode.
• Gran Turismo 5 is not out yet. All we have access to are a selection of high res videos, and not all of them feature what we want.
• Forza 3 is the closest thing we have to represent GT5 Premium cars. So, some of us use it to make a point on the Premium vs Standard debate.

Capiche?

While a few have made passing jabs at Forza, on the whole, this hasn't been a raging flame war, so please stop acting like it is. If the sight of the "F" word or associated images causes you grief, skip around them, it isn't hard. If anyone reports a post simply because it causes anger management issues for them, I'm going to report YOU for causing trouble.

Now, back to the thread in question, ahem...

I know there are a growing number of us who insist that Standard Car races will look just fine, and even want to take high res pics of these cars. And that want Premium and Standard Cars in the same race, and insist it won't make your eyes bleed. I know that there's the whole matter of cockpit view, but I'm just talking about the car models.

Some of us even want to take pics of these mixed races, perhaps even unedited. I know SlipZtrEm and some others are likely going to slap a big FAIL on them, and that's fine, I don't care. But for those who do want something a little more equitable, there is Photoshop, and other graphic editing programs. I have a freeware one somewhere which is supposed to be very good - still have to install the darn thing. You can do a lot with your mouse to paint over issues, but if you want better control, graphic tablets are pretty cheap these days.

I know a few of you have said, "Oh, just wait till you get GT5 and have to look at those Standard and Premium Cars together." Well, I have some astoundingly good looking Premium images already, and as a few have said, they look more real than real! BUT, some of us are plenty happy with the Standard Car images, even with these immense Premium pics floating around. Heck, I'm as happy as a school kid on Christmas break over my GT4 photos, unedited at that, and this thing is ancient history in gaming terms.

You can call us a bunch of crazies, but we're happy, have no issues and no harbored resentments. I think we're much better off.

And Slip, I know sparring is great sport and all, but I think I'll drop the banter because it seems there's getting a bit too much hot sauce in them. No need to unnecessarily cause hard feelings. We have our respective views, and I'm fine with that.

Hurry up, November! 👍

 

[twisteddeeds]

I think you guys who can't stand to have Forza mentioned whatsoever need to understand something.

• Forza games are out now. We can get our hands on them amd use their Photo Mode.
• Gran Turismo 5 is not out yet. All we have access to are a selection of high res videos, and not all of them feature what we want.
• Forza 3 is the closest thing we have to represent GT5 Premium cars. So, some of us use it to make a point on the Premium vs Standard debate.

Capiche?

While a few have made passing jabs at Forza, on the whole, this hasn't been a raging flame war, so please stop acting like it is. If the sight of the "F" word or associated images causes you grief, skip around them, it isn't hard. If anyone reports a post simply because it causes anger management issues for them, I'm going to report YOU for causing trouble.

Now, back to the thread in question, ahem...

I know there are a growing number of us who insist that Standard Car races will look just fine, and even want to take high res pics of these cars. And that want Premium and Standard Cars in the same race, and insist it won't make your eyes bleed. I know that there's the whole matter of cockpit view, but I'm just talking about the car models.

Some of us even want to take pics of these mixed races, perhaps even unedited. I know SlipZtrEm and some others are likely going to slap a big FAIL on them, and that's fine, I don't care. But for those who do want something a little more equitable, there is Photoshop, and other graphic editing programs. I have a freeware one somewhere which is supposed to be very good - still have to install the darn thing. You can do a lot with your mouse to paint over issues, but if you want better control, graphic tablets are pretty cheap these days.

I know a few of you have said, "Oh, just wait till you get GT5 and have to look at those Standard and Premium Cars together." Well, I have some astoundingly good looking Premium images already, and as a few have said, they look more real than real! BUT, some of us are plenty happy with the Standard Car images, even with these immense Premium pics floating around. Heck, I'm as happy as a school kid on Christmas break over my GT4 photos, unedited at that, and this thing is ancient history in gaming terms.

You can call us a bunch of crazies, but we're happy, have no issues and no harbored resentments. I think we're much better off.

Hurry up, November! 👍

This should be front page 👍

I have to say, you have hit the nail on the head with this...

There is definately a difference between comparing and criticising...

I would like to compare Forza to GT not just mage wise, but on a technical level.. I have both consoles I have a right to be able to compare both games.

I can see where people can over step the mark and turn the conversation into a flame war or slagging off match.

But there are people who just like to compare, not in a bad way.. but to get some idea of the difference between developers etc.

Look at it this way, my favourite artist ever is Goya, and I like to compare his art to other artists, for example..... rembrandt, michael angelo or bosch... do you think it would be unfair to compare all these artists?

 

[Sannyasin]

Here is a summary of data and numbers of GT5:
Presentation: E3 2006
Platform: PS3
Release Date: U.S. November 2, 2010, JAPAN 3 November 2010 (tbc), EUROPE 5 November 2010 (tbc).

Development cost: 60 million U.S. dollars
Locations: 20
- Japan: Hong Kong, with its street circuit
- Italy: 3 tracks including public rallies in Rome and Tuscany
- USA: 7 race tracks like Daytona, two street circuits and one for the rally
- France: 2 race tracks like Magny-Cours, 2 citizens and a rally
- Spain: Valencia race circuit (taken from GT PSP) and the street circuit in Madrid
- United Kingdom: a race track taken from Top Gear and the London City Track
- Switzerland: a street circuit and a circuit rally
- Monaco: The street circuit of Monaco known as the F1 track
- South Korea: an urban layout
- Germany: 3 race tracks like the Nurburgring

Paths: more than 70 (now 94), including 52 taken from GT4 and GT PSP

Confirmed tracks:
Daytona International Speedway
Dunsfold Park
Indianapolis Motor Speedway
Nurburgring
Tokyo Route 246 (by series)
Paths citizens: Rome, Madrid, London
Track Editor
- Edited to customize and create paths for your every need on the road.
Vehicles: over 1,000 distinguished 200 Premium (360 ° cockpit, visible damage total beam) and 800 Standard (cockpit traditional marginal visible damage), all can be developed and customized as desired (tuning).
Time required for modeling a car from Team PD: average 180 days

Automotive brands confirmed:
Audi
Lamborghini
Bugatti
Citroën
Ferrari
Ford
Honda
Lexus
Lotus
Mercedes-Benz AMG
MINI
Nissan
Renault
Subaru
Suzuki
Tesla Motors
Toyota
confirmed the lack of Porsche

Competitions confirmed additional notice:
NASCAR
WRC
Super GT
Indy Racing League (circuit only)
Kart (for training)
24h Nurburgring
Formula 1 (when only Red Bull, Sebastian Fettel as demonstration event)
Novel features:
- For the first time and 'This system damage (only a few cars including the Premium have total damage, all while remaining only partially)

- For the first and 'this system the effect weather (rain, wind) and day and night cycle, with races even at night
- For the first time, 'this system of movement of the frame of the passenger using the Playstation EYE (the camera Playstation 3)
- Publish their replay on YouTube (feature already promised from GT5 Prologue) in HD

- Arcade mode (single race, the race for 2-player split-screen)
- New Hybrid and Electric cars are
- Physics with improved management of collisions more realistic (depends on the difficulty selected),
- Vision 3D (need at least a 3D HDTV ready)

Gran Turismo Mode:
World Map
Garage Staff
Auto Purchase
Store Development
Race Championship
Test driving
Online Multiplayer Features:
Lobby open
Voice chat / textual
Private lobby
Online Photo Album
Online Replay album
Up to 32 players in the lobby, 16 race

Photo Mode
- Photo mode, take a picture of the car's at various times

Gran Turismo TV
- Video seen on the PSP

Audio
- Ability to listen to music tracks saved on the PS3 during the game
- Dolby Digital 5.1 and 7.1 (DTS)
Video
- Supported Resolution 720p, 1080i, 1080p 60fps
Interface
- Interface game incorporates the same for GT5 Prologue
Bailouts
- Saved data can be used to GT5 Prologue


This is a couple of features. It mentions cockpit views

 

[JDMKING13]

This should be front page 👍

I have to say, you have hit the nail on the head with this...

There is definately a difference between comparing and criticising...

I would like to compare Forza to GT not just mage wise, but on a technical level.. I have both consoles I have a right to be able to compare both games.

I can see where people can over step the mark and turn the conversation into a flame war or slagging off match.

But there are people who just like to compare, not in a bad way.. but to get some idea of the difference between developers etc.

Look at it this way, my favourite artist ever is Goya, and I like to compare his art to other artists, for example..... rembrandt, michael angelo or bosch...

Thats whats it is man. 👍 Then you have all these little mods telling the real Mods to shut down the thread, however I can quote many other folks not on topic in this thread. I have FM3 and again its a fairly good game, but when I read that FM3 looks new gen and the standard cars don't I don't agree. Im not trying to bash FM3 Forza3 looks amazing in photo mode (and when your car is displayed in career mode) With the right photographer i'm trying to back my argument up by comparing and contrasting. I agree with you both. 👍

 

[Nero9]

*long message*

You don't get it. This thread is called Your thoughts about "standard" vs "premium" and not Your thoughts of "standard" vs "premium" and how these car models compare to forza car models.

IF a person mentions Forza vs GT in anyway (car models etc) it is off-topic.

Get it?

 

[Sannyasin]

Here is a summary of data and numbers of GT5:
Presentation: E3 2006
Platform: PS3
Release Date: U.S. November 2, 2010, JAPAN 3 November 2010 (tbc), EUROPE 5 November 2010 (tbc).

Development cost: 60 million U.S. dollars
Locations: 20
- Japan: Hong Kong, with its street circuit
- Italy: 3 tracks including public rallies in Rome and Tuscany
- USA: 7 race tracks like Daytona, two street circuits and one for the rally
- France: 2 race tracks like Magny-Cours, 2 citizens and a rally
- Spain: Valencia race circuit (taken from GT PSP) and the street circuit in Madrid
- United Kingdom: a race track taken from Top Gear and the London City Track
- Switzerland: a street circuit and a circuit rally
- Monaco: The street circuit of Monaco known as the F1 track
- South Korea: an urban layout
- Germany: 3 race tracks like the Nurburgring

Paths: more than 70 (now 94), including 52 taken from GT4 and GT PSP

Confirmed tracks:
Daytona International Speedway
Dunsfold Park
Indianapolis Motor Speedway
Nurburgring
Tokyo Route 246 (by series)
Paths citizens: Rome, Madrid, London
Track Editor
- Edited to customize and create paths for your every need on the road.
Vehicles: over 1,000 distinguished 200 Premium (360 ° cockpit, visible damage total beam) and 800 Standard (cockpit traditional marginal visible damage), all can be developed and customized as desired (tuning).
Time required for modeling a car from Team PD: average 180 days

Automotive brands confirmed:
Audi
Lamborghini
Bugatti
Citroën
Ferrari
Ford
Honda
Lexus
Lotus
Mercedes-Benz AMG
MINI
Nissan
Renault
Subaru
Suzuki
Tesla Motors
Toyota
confirmed the lack of Porsche

Competitions confirmed additional notice:
NASCAR
WRC
Super GT
Indy Racing League (circuit only)
Kart (for training)
24h Nurburgring
Formula 1 (when only Red Bull, Sebastian Fettel as demonstration event)
Novel features:
- For the first time and 'This system damage (only a few cars including the Premium have total damage, all while remaining only partially)

- For the first and 'this system the effect weather (rain, wind) and day and night cycle, with races even at night
- For the first time, 'this system of movement of the frame of the passenger using the Playstation EYE (the camera Playstation 3)
- Publish their replay on YouTube (feature already promised from GT5 Prologue) in HD

- Arcade mode (single race, the race for 2-player split-screen)
- New Hybrid and Electric cars are
- Physics with improved management of collisions more realistic (depends on the difficulty selected),
- Vision 3D (need at least a 3D HDTV ready)

Gran Turismo Mode:
World Map
Garage Staff
Auto Purchase
Store Development
Race Championship
Test driving
Online Multiplayer Features:
Lobby open
Voice chat / textual
Private lobby
Online Photo Album
Online Replay album
Up to 32 players in the lobby, 16 race

Photo Mode
- Photo mode, take a picture of the car's at various times

Gran Turismo TV
- Video seen on the PSP

Audio
- Ability to listen to music tracks saved on the PS3 during the game
- Dolby Digital 5.1 and 7.1 (DTS)
Video
- Supported Resolution 720p, 1080i, 1080p 60fps
Interface
- Interface game incorporates the same for GT5 Prologue
Bailouts
- Saved data can be used to GT5 Prologue

SOURCE :http://www.4news.it/gran-turismo-5-...ta-playstation-official-magazine-francese.php


This is a couple of features. It mentions cockpit views

 

[JDMKING13]

You don't get it. This thread is called Your thoughts about "standard" vs "premium" and not Your thoughts of "standard" vs "premium" and how these car models compare to forza car models.

IF a person mentions Forza vs GT in anyway (car models etc) it is off-topic.

Get it?

Not if one is trying to make an argument dealing with Standard vs Premium.

EX. The premium cars in GT5 are considered new gen with games such as Forza3 and NFS, the Standards are old Gen

I don't agree with that statement, so I could compare a standard car with any of those games to validate my point valid It still deals with standard vs premium

 

[Lucas]

You don't get it. This thread is called Your thoughts about "standard" vs "premium" and not Your thoughts of "standard" vs "premium" and how these car models compare to forza car models.

IF a person mentions Forza vs GT in anyway (car models etc) it is off-topic.

Get it?

I'm afraid that they won't get it. No, that's not the case. They get it, but they don't care, which is fairly different.

Not if one is trying to make an argument dealing with Standard vs Premium.

Yes, it is still irrelevant, because this is a thread about GT5 and GT5 only, not GT5 vs Forza 3.



What's funny is that some people say Forza wouldn't exist without GT (which I don't say is not true), yet right now it would seem that this thread wouldn't stay alive without Forza. Irony much?

 

[Spagetti69]

He he, A debate about the debate. That's a new direction.

Friday night is always good on GTPlanet.

 

[JDMKING13]

i'm afraid that they won't get it. No, that's not the case. They get it, but they don't care, which is fairly different.



Yes, it is still irrelevant, because this is a thread about gt5 and gt5 only, not gt5 vs forza 3.



what's funny is that some people say forza wouldn't exist without gt (which i don't say is not true), yet right now it would seem that this thread wouldn't stay alive without forza. Irony much?

wow...