Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[VXR]

I can't see them not doing some remodeling, because I was looking at my GT4 pictures again the other day and some of the cars are horrid. It would be suicidal to bring through some of the misshapen horrors and Kaz surely has more pride than that?

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Hope you have some fire-retardant suits nearby, Sceptic .

Wanna see something really awful though? Take the Toyota WiLL Vs out on track for a normal lap. Watch the replay and watch what happens to the wheel wells through most turns... I still have never figured out the cause of it.

 

[trk29]

lol, i beleive you might have a bit of trouble but don't give up!

also are you getting 2.49 or 2.53?

i'd suggest the latest edition (2.53) because they made alot of huge changes...

(quick note of 2.53 it is still in beta so there will be glitches and crashes, but i'd recommend it anyway)

Site is still not working can't download it. I don't see 2.53 just 2.49.

 

[digitalwolf]

Site is still not working can't download it. I don't see 2.53 just 2.49.

downlaod for power pc
http://www.blender.org/dl/http://ft...er2.53beta/blender-2.53-beta-OSX-10.4-ppc.zip
download for intel
http://www.blender.org/dl/http://ft....53beta/blender-2.53-beta-OSX-10.5-x86_64.zip
-------------------------

They use a laser scanner these days
Off course having all the surface data is one thing, then you have to separate all the various components and materials and turn them into 3D objects, texture them, and set up all the physics for the damage and what not. A lot of work!

Seriously, hell i figure just plain modeling would be easier with great blue prints. Scanning just seems more difficult to me, its hard work one way or another anyway, its just one is more accurate than another.

 

[Griffith500]

...
Seriously, hell i figure just plain modeling would be easier with great blue prints. Scanning just seems more difficult to me, its hard work one way or another anyway, its just one is more accurate than another.

You're probably right, but I can think of a way to use both, which might be the best for accuracy with a small optimisation for effort...

@SlipZtrEm: you needn't talk about flame-proof suits; WiLL Vs indeed!

Granted, the consistency of the standard models will mean that one or two are a bit rough, but hopefully the obvious blemishes are patched out somehow before GT5

 

[boblikepie]

You know what they shouldn't of announced that they were doing Standard and Premium cars. Because most people probably wouldn't even notice the difference if they weren't blatantly told.
You'd all just be like yay 1000 HD cars rather then it's **** that there's only 200 good cars. Get over it they're still going to look good, they're running the same physics and they all still have an in-car view and damage.
You also haven't seen the final result so you can't really say that the standard cars look like crap

 

[analog]

You know what they shouldn't of announced that they were doing Standard and Premium cars. Because most people probably wouldn't even notice the difference if they weren't blatantly told.
You'd all just be like yay 1000 HD cars rather then it's **** that there's only 200 good cars. Get over it they're still going to look good, they're running the same physics and they all still have an in-car view and damage.
You also haven't seen the final result so you can't really say that the standard cars look like crap

Problem is we don't know yet ( in fact it appears more likely they don't ) whether all cars will have in-car view and damage isn't equal either.
So there's going to be a difference which will be noticeable, especially to those who use interior view like me.
As for the graphical differences I'll reserve my judgement until I play the game and hopefully GamesCom will finally clarify once and for all whether cockpit view will be available or not.

 

[yellowclone]

Here are some pics from GT4 that I got last night. This was the first time that I have attempted the drive photo mode in GT4. I did try it once in TT, to catch some wheelies and stoppies, but this is my first attempt in GT4. This is to prove that I think the standard cars will look just fine with the new graphics engine, better lighting, and a more powerful console. If these last gen, 6 year old cars, with the limited PS2 power, can look this good, just imagine what they will look like in GT5. I don't care how they are modeled or if they have painted on lights, if they look better than this, I will be thrilled.

Another thing I would like to point out, is if you look at some of the pictures, with the right angle, the windows are actually very transparent. With them being so transparent, you can see the car specific details in the seats, dash, etc... This is one reason why I still think we might get some basic helmet cam in the standards. It can be best seen in the Viper pic coming out of the last turn at "The Ring".

These pictures have not been corrected in any way. I done all these last night, transferred them from my PS3, to a thumb drive, and then to my laptop. I can see this will be addictive in GT5, so I might have to upgrade my hard drive. I don't think the 60gig will cut it once I get GT5.



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[G.T.Ace]

You know what they shouldn't of announced that they were doing Standard and Premium cars. Because most people probably wouldn't even notice the difference if they weren't blatantly told.
You'd all just be like yay 1000 HD cars rather then it's **** that there's only 200 good cars. Get over it they're still going to look good, they're running the same physics and they all still have an in-car view and damage.
You also haven't seen the final result so you can't really say that the standard cars look like crap

Of course you would see the difference, otherwise they wouldn't make 2 categories.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

This is to prove that I think the standard cars will look just fine with the new graphics engine, better lighting, and a more powerful console.

Somehow I knew a post like this would come when this thread came back to the top.

We don't need "proof" of an opinion. We've all discussed the technical, hard facts separating the Standards from the Premiums, going by what's so far been shown of them, but at the end of the day, people will still have an opinion on if they look fine or not. I feel like they're acceptable visually, but a sign of laziness, and bring down the overall quality of a game that, Standards aside, really did have a graphics quality above any other game. Others think they look as good or better than other current gen games. All opinions.

As for interiors; people found a way years ago to actually enter the cockpits in Photo Mode. I can't remember the method (I think it had something to do with saving the "film" on the memory card, then loading it back up later). Other than convertibles or open-air cars, the interiors don't have any real details. They have some very basic silhouettes for their seats, but it'd look basically like PSP's "interior" view. If we get that in GT5, I guess it's better than nothing...

That all said, speaking from the point of view of the GT4 Galleries forum... those are pretty good for being unedited! Most people leave them way too dark, but these are just right. You should start a gallery before GT5 hits!

 

[TorqueHappenS08]

That's one thing i didn't get about gt4, there was no interior shown, Yet, cars had accurate seats, even the emergency bar was visible, Some interiors even had details in side...

 

[gtracedriver]

Thanks for the pics yellowclone. It just goes to show PD were so far ahead of the competition. GT4 is 5yrs old and it looks this good

I am sure the gfx and cars will be fine. Although more polygons would obviously bring the beauty of these cars more. They just need to have some cockpit views in all cars. I think that is most crucial part of standard cars

 

[yellowclone]

They have some very basic silhouettes for their seats, but it'd look basically like PSP's "interior" view. If we get that in GT5, I guess it's better than nothing...

That all said, speaking from the point of view of the GT4 Galleries forum... those are pretty good for being unedited! Most people leave them way too dark, but these are just right. You should start a gallery before GT5 hits!

I respect your opinion on the interior concept, and you may very well be correct. If they are silhouettes, they still have the correct shape, and certain cars, like the Viper and BMW M3 GTR, have the racing style seats with holes for 5-point harnesses. Therefore, that is why I believe some basic modeling has been done on the interiors. If we get something like the interior in the Vette that has recently come up, even though it is premium, alot of details were shadowing weather it be the position on the track or just the fact that it is really that dark in real life. I think if they had basic modeling, that they could provide some low detail cockpits hidden by shadows, but you would still get the highlights, like steering wheel, and low detail gauges.

I might have to start a gallery on the GT4 forum, but I just got a wild hair last night, and decided that I would try my hand in photo mode. I got the lighting better by adjusting the exposure, so that was a simple fix. It is difficult, however, on some parts on "The Ring" to get a good shot, since alot of it is kind of dark. I have been busy recently finishing up some things on GT4 that I passed up because of time it required per race, like endurance races, and the 1000 miles in a 1970 or older Euro car. I just finished up the 1000 mile series last night, and I must say, it was one of the most enjoyable things I have done in GT4. I fell in love with the '65 Alfa Giulia. I will get that car in GT5, for sure, at some point.

 

[Griffith500]

Hmmm... they do look good. Are you sure you didn't touch up the contrast / brightness a tad afterwards? I did that with some of mine, although I claim they're untouched...
(it's the blocks of colour, the jpeg artifacting, that aroused my suspicion - unless that's actually due to a low colour bit-depth?)

Great post, by the way, SlipZtrEm! 👍

 

[yellowclone]

Hmmm... they do look good. Are you sure you didn't touch up the contrast / brightness a tad afterwards? I did that with some of mine, although I claim they're untouched...
(it's the blocks of colour, the jpeg artifacting, that aroused my suspicion - unless that's actually due to a low colour bit-depth?)

No touching up at all. Saved straight from GT4 to my PS3 60gig, to a flash drive, to my laptop, and straight to imageshack from my laptop. I promise I haven't touched them. I am not a photographer, I don't have photoshop, and I hate MS paint. I just fiddled with it until I got the color the way I wanted it, and then snapped the pic. If it didn't look good when I snapped it, I would adjust a little more, and snap another until I got it like I wanted it, and then saved it.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I respect your opinion on the interior concept, and you may very well be correct. If they are silhouettes, they still have the correct shape, and certain cars, like the Viper and BMW M3 GTR, have the racing style seats with holes for 5-point harnesses. Therefore, that is why I believe some basic modeling has been done on the interiors. If we get something like the interior in the Vette that has recently come up, even though it is premium, alot of details were shadowing weather it be the position on the track or just the fact that it is really that dark in real life. I think if they had basic modeling, that they could provide some low detail cockpits hidden by shadows, but you would still get the highlights, like steering wheel, and low detail gauges.

I do see your point, and for PD's sake, I really hope they provide something with the Standard cars. It's kind of a joke if the majority of cars in the game can't offer a viewpoint that was given to us in Prologue. Call me crazy though, but if they can't put them in at the detail level of Prologue... I'd actually rather have the blacked-out PSP-style cockpit with maybe a steering wheel on screen. Other than that... as long as I have the HUD, I don't need or want anything further. The GT4 convertibles for example would look utterly, utterly terrible on a decent-sized screen if you could be seated in the interior. The poly count and texture resolutions are just too low, not to mention no gauges actually function. I'd rather see PD save their time to put towards making everything Premium and putting an end to this two-tier system ASAP .

I might have to start a gallery on the GT4 forum, but I just got a wild hair last night, and decided that I would try my hand in photo mode. I got the lighting better by adjusting the exposure, so that was a simple fix. It is difficult, however, on some parts on "The Ring" to get a good shot, since alot of it is kind of dark. I have been busy recently finishing up some things on GT4 that I passed up because of time it required per race, like endurance races, and the 1000 miles in a 1970 or older Euro car. I just finished up the 1000 mile series last night, and I must say, it was one of the most enjoyable things I have done in GT4. I fell in love with the '65 Alfa Giulia. I will get that car in GT5, for sure, at some point.

Do it! It's an addiction, and the community only encourages it... so at least you have fellow sufferers . I'm guessing you bumped the EV level up to avoid the darkness most un-edited shots usually get. The contrast is still really good though, so congrats 👍

Hmmm... they do look good. Are you sure you didn't touch up the contrast / brightness a tad afterwards? I did that with some of mine, although I claim they're untouched...
(it's the blocks of colour, the jpeg artifacting, that aroused my suspicion - unless that's actually due to a low colour bit-depth?)

Great post, by the way, SlipZtrEm! 👍

They are really impressive for being precisely zero post-processing. Thanks, dude

 

[Griffith500]

@yellowclone:
Fair enough; I'm not against such colour / contrast editing at all, anyway. Yours look very good without! 👍

I've had a Ginetta G20 put aside for that Mille Miglia championship since, ooh, 2005? I should probably steal my PS2 back from my brother, given Sony have yet to include software emulation

 

[tinram]

i thought I'd add some old GT4 pics i have with see-thru windshields.

 

[eSZee]

i thought I'd add some old GT4 pics i have with see-thru windshields.

Why? Everyone knows GT4 cars had tinted, not blacked out, windows that we could see through. There's no point of proving that over and over again in a thread and on a board that isn't meant for GT4.

 

[tinram]

Why? Everyone knows GT4 cars had tinted, not blacked out, windows that we could see through. There's no point of proving that over and over again in a thread and on a board that isn't meant for GT4.

okay ... relax take a deep breath. I just thought showing that the cars have modeled interiors in GT4 was useful on this standard vs. premium thread.

Since the standard cars would be based on GT4 then it would be relevant here, don't you think?

 

[eSZee]

Since the standard cars would be based on GT4 then it would be relevant here, don't you think?

Standard cars are GT4 cars. Your pictures don't show modeled interiors, they show black silhouettes. This has been discussed maybe 190 pages ago.

 

[tinram]

Well what's that bulge behind the evo windshield, does not look like just a silhouette to me. What about the flat area behind the rear seat of the STI, that a silhouette too?

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I shouldn't have used the term "silhouettes". What I meant by that were very basically-modeled shapes to serve as a hint to an interior. Seats, a hint of a rear bulkhead, a hint of a dash... it's still far from a useful interior view a la Prologue. It would look like PSP. I'm sure there would still be members around here who claim that's at least class-competitive to other games in the genre, but it ain't.

 

[Griffith500]

The seats have clear "jagged edges" to them, indicative of textures on simple quads placed where the seats should be - cardboard cut-outs, if you will, much like the trees. The jagged edges would be caused by the low-resolution of the texture, where the alpha channel (transparency) dictates what parts are visible?? That's my guess anyway.

They're almost certainly not going to hold up to scrutiny if the windows are made fully transparent, or especially if we're going to be able to shove our heads in the cabins...

 

[Akira AC]

I shouldn't have used the term "silhouettes". What I meant by that were very basically-modeled shapes to serve as a hint to an interior. Seats, a hint of a rear bulkhead, a hint of a dash... it's still far from a useful interior view a la Prologue. It would look like PSP. I'm sure there would still be members around here who claim that's at least class-competitive to other games in the genre, but it ain't.

They are,have you seen the cars from undercover,pro street and FM2,just black out windows,these are grey tinted which is different,besides of that its just like trying to ignite the war again so wait until gamescom,besides of that GTPSP was capable of cockpit view with head bouncing effects when braking,and on the psp which makes me think that maybe standards are capable of featuring a cockpit view(even a blackout one).

 

[SlipZtrEm]

They are,have you seen the cars from undercover,pro street and FM2,just black out windows,these are grey tinted which is different,besides of that its just like trying to ignite the war again so wait until gamescom,besides of that GTPSP was capable of cockpit view with head bouncing effects when braking,and on the psp which makes me think that maybe standards are capable of featuring a cockpit view(even a blackout one).

Comparing to the worst of the competition doesn't make it very good, though .

A blacked-out cockpit might work, though like Griffith said, they're not going to be pretty. And then we get into the whole "overall visual quality of the whole game" issue, and the arguing and bickering goes full circle for another near-200 pages .

 

[yellowclone]

Do it! It's an addiction, and the community only encourages it... so at least you have fellow sufferers . I'm guessing you bumped the EV level up to avoid the darkness most un-edited shots usually get. The contrast is still really good though, so congrats 👍

I might after I finish what I want to in GT4. I am not going for 100% complete, all golds, or maxed out A-spec points, I just have a few more things I want to get done before I put it down. I had every intention to play GT4 through Sept, and then fire GT5P back up for the month of Oct to get ready for the full release. If I get what I want done before the end of Sept, I will work alot on some more pics and start a gallery. In the mean time, I will work a little on gathering some more pics. As far as upping the EV level to get the desired results,

I've had a Ginetta G20 put aside for that Mille Miglia championship since, ooh, 2005? I should probably steal my PS2 back from my brother, given Sony have yet to include software emulation

It really was one of the most fun things I have done in the game. 25 laps around the Ring, 35 around Le Sarthe, and much more. Be aware, though, that it will take 3 hrs for each race, give or take, and it took me almost 3.5 hrs for the Nurburgring race. The main reason I searched for a 60gig PS3 is for the backward compatibility. The 60gig has the hardware for PS2 games, which I believe makes it like 99% backwards compatible. I think the 80gig just had a software update that made them around 80% compatible.

 

[analog]

The seats have clear "jagged edges" to them, indicative of textures on simple quads placed where the seats should be - cardboard cut-outs, if you will, much like the trees.

A blacked-out cockpit might work, though like Griffith said, they're not going to be pretty.

I've mentioned it before in the beginning of this thread that they did offer a "cockpit view" ( or whatever it's called for bikes ) in Tourist Trophy on the PS2 which impressed the hell out of me at the time ( although I did only play it then on a SD telly ) and recently when playing it again it struck me as quite basic compared with Prologue ( or any current-gen game ).
It also appears to be texture based ( although Griffith or Slip could probably explain it much better as I'm not very technical myself ).
Maybe something like this could be done? At least it beats a blackframe.....and it had working dials.

 

[Griffith500]

It really was one of the most fun things I have done in the game. 25 laps around the Ring, 35 around Le Sarthe, and much more. Be aware, though, that it will take 3 hrs for each race, give or take, and it took me almost 3.5 hrs for the Nurburgring race. The main reason I searched for a 60gig PS3 is for the backward compatibility. The 60gig has the hardware for PS2 games, which I believe makes it like 99% backwards compatible. I think the 80gig just had a software update that made them around 80% compatible.

Well, there's hope then, that as the 80Gb version approaches 99%, we might see one for the rest of the range... It's the only reason I stopped shopping around for a 60Gb and plumped for the slim
The only reason I didn't do the Mille Migla races was precisely because I couldn't "afford" to sit down for 3 hours at a time, and not be able to do any other races until I'd finished it all. I might have a crack before GT5 comes out, though.

I've mentioned it before in the beginning of this thread that they did offer a "cockpit view" ( or whatever it's called for bikes ) in Tourist Trophy on the PS2 which impressed the hell out of me at the time ( although I did only play it then on a SD telly ) and recently when playing it again it struck me as quite basic compared with Prologue ( or any current-gen game ).
It also appears to be texture based ( although Griffith or Slip could probably explain it much better as I'm not very technical myself ).
Maybe something like this could be done? At least it beats a blackframe.....and it had working dials.

[/QUOTE]

I think the most impressive thing about the TT "cockpit" view was the way it moved around relative to your viewpoint - or rather, the rider's "head". I was aware of the grainy textures back then, but the reflections in the cowl / visor always impressed me - especially at Catalunya (was it?)

Sadly, though, the bikes were modeled with that view in mind, by the looks of it. The gauges, brake fluid reservoir etc. are all modeled properly and the textures are just about fine-grained enough, not like the cars' interiors in GT4 :(

 

[analog]

Yeah I guess you're right ( I also remember now those bikes having more polygons than the GT4 cars ).
That track was probably Valencia I guess?