Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[gtracedriver]

I'm going to sound like a broken record on this, but (and this statement is based on an assumption of what the Standard car list contains) there are so many very minor things that PD could have done that would decrease the quantity but drastically increase the consistency of the presentation. It makes no sense, for example, to praise PD's attention to detail as being spectacular and then watch as they create cars that never even existed simply so the car count will be higher.


In the Standard video, the C5R looks exactly like it did in GT3, despite (for example) the C3 Corvette looking considerably better. It seems to me that they are updating the Standards based on the better textures that they created for GT4 but weren't able to use, but most of the GT3 cars don't have those better textures.

You mean like this:
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/553/gt5c5r.jpg
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9812/gt5c5r1.jpg

 

[Tornado]

No, I mean like this:
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/4417/2dw6r7a.jpg


It looks better because the GT5 lighting engine is worlds better than the GT4 one.

 

[Griffith500]

Actually:
http://www.imgftw.net/img/352582027.jpg
Look at all the wine names, looks like there is a liver editor at least.

Well, I found it funny

I'm going to sound like a broken record on this, but (and this statement is based on an assumption of what the Standard car list contains) there are so many very minor things that PD could have done that would decrease the quantity but drastically increase the consistency of the presentation. It makes no sense, for example, to praise PD's attention to detail as being spectacular and then watch as they create cars that never even existed simply so the car count will be higher.


In the Standard video, the C5R looks exactly like it did in GT3, despite (for example) the C3 Corvette looking considerably better. It seems to me that they are updating the Standards based on the better textures that they created for GT4 but weren't able to use, but most of the GT3 cars don't have those better textures because they weren't updated for GT4.

Que? If you mean the XJ13, it did exist... it just never got the chance to race and was damaged in an accident in 1971; I read the Spiel.

And to explain your second point, the textures on road cars are mostly for things like shut-lines / panel gaps, whilst the race cars have livery all over them, so the low res textures are more in your face

 

[analog]

Que? If you mean the XJ13, it did exist... it just never got the chance to race and was damaged in an accident in 1971; I read the Spiel.

I really hope he was referring to something else, if he really thought the XJ13 was "invented" by PD then, oh my........would be very funny, sorry to say.

 

[Tornado]

Que? If you mean the XJ13, it did exist... it just never got the chance to race and was damaged in an accident in 1971; I read the Spiel.

I was referring to some of the (probably) returning Standards rather than any of the Premiums.

And to explain your second point, the textures on road cars are mostly for things like shut-lines / panel gaps, whilst the race cars have livery all over them, so the low res textures are more in your face

Texture dots, man. Texture dots. You can just about make them out in some of the C5R grabs from the video, but they don't seem to effect any of the other cars (and we don't get a good enough view of the GTS-R to see if it has the same problem).

 

[gtracedriver]

I have seen that infamous pic before that is post different pics. No one should struggle to see difference in IQ or Image Quality. GT5 standard cars will look nice not crappy even though they are not having high poly count. This is no rocket science

 

[CTznOfTime]

I'm going to sound like a broken record on this, but (and this statement is based on an assumption of what the Standard car list contains) there are so many very minor things that PD could have done that would decrease the quantity but drastically increase the consistency of the presentation. It makes no sense, for example, to praise PD's attention to detail as being spectacular and then watch as they create cars that never even existed simply so the car count will be higher.

In the Standard video, the C5R looks exactly like it did in GT3, despite (for example) the C3 Corvette looking considerably better. It seems to me that they are updating the Standards based on the better textures that they created for GT4 but weren't able to use, but most of the GT3 cars don't have those better textures because they weren't updated for GT4.

When explained that way, i totally understand where you are coming from... and so i respect your point of view on this...

I guess it all comes down to how "picky" each one of us are...

As for me, i guess i am not as picky as you are...
and looking at the Corvette JPG, i really dont mind the difference between a Premium car...

i can see the difference, but i, personally, am not upset because of it... i am just happy to be racing on one of the best physics around...



I am just so confused:

Some people say they really dont care about graphics, they would rather have a dumb down cockpit (rather than no cockpit) and drive...

Some other say they prefer Forza for the better graphics than GT5 standards, and yet the drive is not as rewarding as in GT5-P / GT5...

it seems that you guys prefer a so-so average game with an overall look that is consistent, rather than liking a game that has top-notch physics/graphics and that is recognized by most as most realist.... but which has a few drawbacks (no cockpit, two-tier car design, no full customization).

Are those drawback so bad to over-shadow the high level quality on other aspect of the game for you to prefer another game that has OK driving physics with unfinished cockpits and bugs, and for which required monthly DLC?


well at least we have a choice... but i just cant understand yours...


but i am sure what we can all agree on is:
the most important factor is whatever we find / think as FUN.


if you think Forza 3 is more fun that GT5, so be it...
i think it's the opposite because i just cannot stand F3 drawbacks.
i really wish i could overlook those, so that i can buy an Xbox and enjoy F3, BUT!

until F4 comes out, Peace out 👍

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Given the scenario you described, i somehow doubt that those boys will say this games sucks just because of the Standard cars?

I know i will not.

What does that have to do with it? You're original comment was that most casual players wouldn't even notice the two-tiers. I pointed out it's going to be hard not to (especially considering the garage has separate tabs for Premium and Standards). I never said they would say it sucks. Don't change your argument just because I proved an error .

And i beg to differ and to challenge "Quantity > Quality"...
This expression does not apply to GT5.

Kaz and PD went for both Quantity and Quality, giving equal priority to those two aspects...

Compared with any other games out there...

GT5 quantity will still be more than X.
GT5 quality will still be more than X.

Eh, diff'rent strokes. Their quantity is surely more, yes. Their quality, at least with the car models... well, 200/1000 will be of higher quality, yes. 800/1000 won't be. It all depends on an individual's point of view if those 200 more than make up for the 800. Don't get me wrong though, I'm still going to be playing GT5 a whole hell of a lot. And it's still my preferred racing title 👍

I know not of your reputation here so that dosn't matter to me.

*phew*

"Should" is what I ment to say so I said it, I base it on the fact that PD have made a racing game with an 'encyclopedia' of cars,
If it was done right I should have alot more cars to choose from regardless of the race category(model races excluded obviously)
The list you gave is what 6 cars....not a ton no, but I also maitain its not exactly a wealth of choice either.
Again, as I said I wouldnt have a problem with the Prius if car models were consistent, but I do have a problem with it becasue the models areny consistent.

Ah. Don't get me wrong, I feel the same way (wanting one uniform level of quality across the board, avoiding this whole two-tier system). But seeing as how we're stuck with it, I felt the need to point out we still do get options.

 

[Tornado]

it seems that you guys prefer a so-so average game with an overall look that is consistent, rather than liking a game that has top-notch physics/graphics and that is recognized by most as most realist.... but which has a few drawbacks (no cockpit, two-tier car design, no full customization).

I was talking about how PD paring back on the padding just a little bit would make the game much better as a whole. I wasn't really talking about the difference between the two tiers.

I have seen that infamous pic before that is post different pics. No one should struggle to see difference in IQ or Image Quality. GT5 standard cars will look nice not crappy even though they are not having high poly count. This is no rocket science

So are you suggesting that PD made up all new, higher quality textures for the GT3 cars? Because even if you subscribe to the "GT4 was massively pared back and future proofed" theory (which admittedly seems to be ringing true to an extent), there is zero evidence to suggest they did the same for GT3 cars, and quite a bit of evidence to the contrary.

 

[Forza4life]

Actually:

Look at all the wine names, looks like there is a liver editor at least.

Is that a standard car (Just logged on. Trying to catch up with everything and the conversations here)?


Edit: Fixed. Quoted the wrong guy.

 

[Killinator]

This is why I'm not happy with Standard/Premium cars,
This car model will not stand up against the new Peugeot 908 model(which I drove at the GT5 booth at Le Mans), at least not in my eyes:

 

[Geer Racer16]

This is why I'm not happy with Standard/Premium cars,
This car model will not stand up against the new Peugeot 908 model(which I drove at the GT5 booth at Le Mans), at least not in my eyes:

Where did you get this picture?

 

[warp9engage]

So, is this an actual game screenshot or a careful photoshop? I find it a bit hard to believe a Standard Car picture has popped up amidst all the ones of premiums.

If it's a real screen... oh dear... ... PD in the time between the publishing of the short video and GamesCon has done... nothing? Nothing to improve the model quality of the Standards? I see that they haven't even bothered to smoothen out those edges on the NSX's mirrors and that's not to name a few other things.

 

[Marry_Me_GT]

This is why I'm not happy with Standard/Premium cars,
This car model will not stand up against the new Peugeot 908 model(which I drove at the GT5 booth at Le Mans), at least not in my eyes:

👎

 

[Griffith500]

I was referring to some of the (probably) returning Standards rather than any of the Premiums.


Texture dots, man. Texture dots. You can just about make them out in some of the C5R grabs from the video, but they don't seem to effect any of the other cars (and we don't get a good enough view of the GTS-R to see if it has the same problem).

It does, at least in GT4, where shading is required to simulate some of the missing lighting cues. The lower parts of sills and doors are prime spots.

And anyway, which standards? Things like Formula PD, or that PDI kart (that is made up! )

 

[Nero9]

Why can't they put in the CGI models that was used for GT1/2?

 

[Killinator]

Where did you get this picture?

I just screen grabbed from the standard car video released a while back



The sound for the LMP's are terrible aswell

 

[Griffith500]

Why can't they put in the CGI models that was used for GT1/2?

Because they're no better than the PS2 models?

 

[Forza4life]

So, is this an actual game screenshot or a careful photoshop? I find it a bit hard to believe a Standard Car picture has popped up amidst all the ones of premiums.

If it's a real screen... oh dear... ... PD in the time between the publishing of the short video and GamesCon has done... nothing? Nothing to improve the model quality of the Standards? I see that they haven't even bothered to smoothen out those edges on the NSX's mirrors and that's not to name a few other things.

If that's a standard, I take back what I said about the cars looking gross . They don't look that bad imo (before they looked really smudgy and uneven), atleast to me now.

Edit: Nvm, someone answered me in another thread.

 

[Max_DC]

Well at some point in the past Kaz and his team decided that they wanted to use the PS3 power to create cars that we see today as premium cars.

Once they went that way and released first footage of GT5p that was the way to go, no way back.

And that - as it has been said many times in this thread and elsewhere - has caused the situation of today :


1. It seems to be impossible to create 1000 premium cars of that quality in
time
2. Releasing a Gran Turismo with 250 cars after 5 years is not what they
want and in the end not what consumers want

1+2 = 3 : Compromise of premium and standard cars

4. Different levels of quality can be found at other places in the game,
the famous 2D trees for example.


Conclusion :

PD went for maximum quality of car looks and sacrificed other aspects to certain degrees ( consistancy, asthetic balance ) for it because they were running out of time. I guess they were a little too optimistic regarding their time mangement in the beginning. I don't really blame them, in order to get the job done ( aka shipping the game before the end of the world ) you have to axe some features at some point.

I guess we have to live with that.

Personally I would have preferred PS3 cars with PS3 exteriors and PS3 interiors with a reduction of overall car quantity ( 300 - 400 cars ? ), PS3 tracks ( better looking trees, more environment animation ), PS3 sound over PS4 cars with PS4 interiors/exteriors + PS2,5 cars without interiors, tracks that look like a mix of PS3, PS2 and PSX and probably PS2,5 sound (?).

For me it's about the whole package. A realistic looking car in a videogamish looking background ruins my overall impression - it just feels fake - the perfection of the cars point out the deficiency of some background details even more. It might sound paradox, but sometimes less really is more.








So while I would have made a different GT5, I can live with the result.
In the end there is always a next GT and other racing games in this and future console generations. If GT5 was perfect today, how boring would tomorrow be ?

 

[Nero9]

Because they're no better than the PS2 models?

I beg to differ.

GT2 CGI:

GT4:

The CGI model is more detailed.

 

[Spagetti69]

Doesn't bode well for the sounds does it.

 

[Killinator]

Doesn't bode well for the sounds does it.

And usually they have the grace to dub in real sounds,
Not sure whether I wanted to laugh or cry when that Corvette came up

 

[shirakawaa]

By the way, in the picture above the fake "textured shading" of standard models can be seen, especially on the front bumper.

 

[regnar]

If that's a standard, I take back what I said about the cars looking gross . They don't look that bad imo (before they looked really smudgy and uneven), atleast to me now *ducks flying chairs*

Yes, those are standard cars, possibly touched up, this is a promo shot, not a actual screen shot of game play.

As some have pointed out earlier, the location of the cars on the track map to the left doesn't match the positions where the two cars are in the scene.
The first three cars are already crossing the start/finish line while the 5th place car is just making it through the esse on lap 1, a pretty good head start.

But would love to see some quality shots of standard cars, beyond video screen grabs.

 

[CTznOfTime]

Well it depends... which track is this??

If it's Suzuka, they might have pulled a "BP" trick on us by altering the shot...

but if else, then maybe not? so it depends...

but i doubt that they have touched up anything on the cars...
maybe i looks good because the shot has been downsized from an original larger resolution screen shot.

 

[JAGUAR1977]

And usually they have the grace to dub in real sounds,
Not sure whether I wanted to laugh or cry when that Corvette came up

Standard cars engine sounds appear to be ported straight across from GT4 but you need to consider the Corvette C5-R was far and away the most inaccurate souding car in GT4. So much so I wouldn't be suprised if the wrong sound sample was used back in GT4's development and it's never been corrected.

The vast majorty of GT4's cars have more than acceptable engine sounds particularly the road cars.

 

[kweiss]

Quick question:

It looks like most all cars from GT4, with a few exception, will be standard. Will all new cars to the series be premium? Or will some new cars be standard?

 

[analog]

Quick question:

It looks like most all cars from GT4, with a few exception, will be standard. Will all new cars to the series be premium? Or will some new cars be standard?

All cars new to the series ( not in GT4 or GT-PSP ) will be Premium and some cars already seen before will be Premium as well, no new Standards.

 

[Spagetti69]

Freshly modeled cars are premium I think.
Can't see them doing new cars to ps2 standard. But this is PD were talking about.