Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Dravonic]

Quick question:

It looks like most all cars from GT4, with a few exception, will be standard. Will all new cars to the series be premium? Or will some new cars be standard?

All new cars are premium apparently.

Well, there's the countach that wasn't in GT4 but is standard. Apparently PD made it back in GT4 days but were unable to include it in GT4. Maybe there are other lambos or a few other cars in the same situation but as a general rule, all new cars are premium.

PD made the choice of creating every new cars in premium quality apparently, what makes sense if you ask me. That's the reason why the Prius is premium and quite a lot of other "unwanted" cars are too.

 

[whatbrown]

I don't know about any of you, but I hope I can play the game without ever seeing a standard car. I don't want to race against them, I don't want them for licensing tests, I don't want them in my garage, etc. I am a pretty anal person, not OCD or anything, and therefore it really would ruin my experience to have to have to participate in anything associated with cars of lesser quality than I will become accustomed to. I would much rather that the standard cars weren't even in the game and possibly PD could have given us 300 or so premiums. Does anybody else feel like I do?

 

[Nam67]

GT4

Click for higher resolution

GT5


Well if you look at the maximum the ps2 could do with GT4 car's in photo mode and let the ps3 handle these models I'm sure they will look good, but compared to those GT5 premium ones. Those 2 should not be allowed on the same track.


EDIT

I don't know about any of you, but I hope I can play the game without ever seeing a standard car. I don't want to race against them, I don't want them for licensing tests, I don't want them in my garage, etc. I am a pretty anal person, not OCD or anything, and therefore it really would ruin my experience to have to have to participate in anything associated with cars of lesser quality than I will become accustomed to. I would much rather that the standard cars weren't even in the game and possibly PD could have given us 300 or so premiums. Does anybody else feel like I do?

Agree, altho I think they just should have made a mode called GT4HD or something that you could select at startup between GT4HD and GT5.

 

[regnar]

Thinking out loud, haven't done the math yet, but still wondering about the number of 800 standards, knowing we have about 740 cars from GT4 & a few from PSP, subtracting the number of cars that have crossed over to premium, reduces that number down. What fills that gap?.

 

[Devedander]

I don't know about any of you, but I hope I can play the game without ever seeing a standard car. I don't want to race against them, I don't want them for licensing tests, I don't want them in my garage, etc. I am a pretty anal person, not OCD or anything, and therefore it really would ruin my experience to have to have to participate in anything associated with cars of lesser quality than I will become accustomed to. I would much rather that the standard cars weren't even in the game and possibly PD could have given us 300 or so premiums. Does anybody else feel like I do?

You are not alone... but it's a bad decision to have to make...

I personally would have liked 1000 very good looking cars with cockpits over either of the options we have now.

 

[eSZee]

I don't know about any of you, but I hope I can play the game without ever seeing a standard car. I don't want to race against them, I don't want them for licensing tests, I don't want them in my garage, etc. I am a pretty anal person, not OCD or anything, and therefore it really would ruin my experience to have to have to participate in anything associated with cars of lesser quality than I will become accustomed to. I would much rather that the standard cars weren't even in the game and possibly PD could have given us 300 or so premiums. Does anybody else feel like I do?

Probably. There's a ton of closed-minded people on these forums.

 

[Spagetti69]

If a standard car goes in the pits, will the crew take it's wheels off?

 

[Devedander]

Thinking out load, haven't done the math yet, but still wondering about the number of 800 standards, knowing we have about 740 cars from GT4 & a few from PSP, subtracting the number of cars that have crossed over to premium, reduces that number down. What fills that gap?.

MONSTER TRUCKS!!!!!












I wish

Ahh Toca 3... good times...

If a standard car goes in the pits, will the crew take it's wheels off?

I thought animated pit crews were out?

 

[CTznOfTime]

they give you another car

nah... seriously... that's a good question...

either they just dont show it, or they will just do nothing...

 

[Spagetti69]

Thinking out load, haven't done the math yet, but still wondering about the number of 800 standards, knowing we have about 740 cars from GT4 & a few from PSP, subtracting the number of cars that have crossed over to premium, reduces that number down. What fills that gap?.

Nice big, puffy, cushiony padding.

I have seen a figure of 950 cars though.
Who knows what PD do next.

 

[Forza4life]

GT4

Click for higher resolution

GT5


Well if you look at the maximum the ps2 could do with GT4 car's in photo mode and let the ps3 handle these models I'm sure they will look good, but compared to those GT5 premium ones. Those 2 should not be allowed on the same track.


EDIT



Agree, altho I think they just should have made a mode called GT4HD or something that you could select at startup between GT4HD and GT5.

Is the second picture also a standard car (Still trying to catch up with the conversations)?

 

[Spagetti69]

Pit crew have been axed?

I've seen animated crews before, was that just a smokescreen.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Thinking out load, haven't done the math yet, but still wondering about the number of 800 standards, knowing we have about 740 cars from GT4 & a few from PSP, subtracting the number of cars that have crossed over to premium, reduces that number down. What fills that gap?.

PSP has over 800, and it's missing the Astons, Aussie cars, and any "special" cars (Auto Union, Prowler, Caterham, etc). Add those in, then only subtract Premium cars that are exactly the same models as their PSP counterparts. Case in point: Aston DB9 '03 (Standard) and '06 (Premium)...

Just count on there being 3 identical versions of the Hyundai Tiburon/Tuscani/Coupe...

If a standard car goes in the pits, will the crew take it's wheels off?

Why not? The wheels have always been modeled separately from the cars. GT4 had the 2D wheels for races, and 3D for Photomode. GT5 just uses the latter 👍

 

[Nam67]

Is the second picture also a standard car (Still trying to catch up with the conversations)?

No (if you are refering to the GT5 one) that is premium, most likely the same model from GT5P.

 

[Forza4life]

No (if you are refering to the GT5 one) that is premium, most likely the same model from GT5P.

Oh ok.

 

[Devedander]

Is the second picture also a standard car (Still trying to catch up with the conversations)?

Top two pictures are GT4 photomode, bottom picture is GT5 promo shot of premium cars.

Click through and look at the GT4 photos full size.

Then click through and look at the GT5 photo.

They aren't a truly fair comparison size wise, but you will see the differences.

 

[Spagetti69]

Ah so pitcrew in or out or not known?

 

[Devedander]

Nice big, puffy, cushiony padding.

I have seen a figure of 950 cars though.
Who knows what PD do next.

Wait... how many karts are there going to be?

Ah so pitcrew in or out or not known?

I thought I heard out at one point... but not sure.

 

[Devedander]

Dupe.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Well at some point in the past Kaz and his team decided that they wanted to use the PS3 power to create cars that we see today as premium cars.

Once they went that way and released first footage of GT5p that was the way to go, no way back.

And that - as it has been said many times in this thread and elsewhere - has caused the situation of today :


1. It seems to be impossible to create 1000 premium cars of that quality in
time
2. Releasing a Gran Turismo with 250 cars after 5 years is not what they
want and in the end not what consumers want

1+2 = 3 : Compromise of premium and standard cars

4. Different levels of quality can be found at other places in the game,
the famous 2D trees for example.


Conclusion :

PD went for maximum quality of car looks and sacrificed other aspects to certain degrees ( consistancy, asthetic balance ) for it because they were running out of time. I guess they were a little too optimistic regarding their time mangement in the beginning. I don't really blame them, in order to get the job done ( aka shipping the game before the end of the world ) you have to axe some features at some point.

I guess we have to live with that.]

Like it or not, we will have to live with it.

For me it's about the whole package. A realistic looking car in a videogamish looking background ruins my overall impression - it just feels fake - the perfection of the cars point out the deficiency of some background details even more. It might sound paradox, but sometimes less really is more.

Its a very odd paradox indeed, and a first as far as I can tell for GT.
(800+less) + (200+more) = acceptable standard.

Knowing Kaz has a propensity for high standards, its difficult for me to dismiss his formula offhand. I'm trying to reserve final judgement for when I can play the game. However with no interior or cockpits for 800 cars one cannot help but conclude this has tarnished the real driving simulator, especially in light of the almost 6 yrs dev time.

 

[eSZee]

Wait... how many karts are there going to be?



I thought I heard out at one point... but not sure.

I think it's just one type. One of the articles only mentioned 100cc carts and it sounded like that was it.

 

[Nielsen]

I don't know about any of you, but I hope I can play the game without ever seeing a standard car. I don't want to race against them, I don't want them for licensing tests, I don't want them in my garage, etc. I am a pretty anal person, not OCD or anything, and therefore it really would ruin my experience to have to have to participate in anything associated with cars of lesser quality than I will become accustomed to. I would much rather that the standard cars weren't even in the game and possibly PD could have given us 300 or so premiums. Does anybody else feel like I do?

If fear it will be hard to avoid if the game have events like those very specific ones in GT4. You know like the Nissan event "Micra Brothers" which restricted the player to drive a compact Nissan. If the career mode is going to be just as huge as it was in GT4, then I think PD would have had a hard time making every event accessible with a premium car. Esepcially with the tendency of most premium cars being rather high-end.

 

[Tornado]

It does, at least in GT4, where shading is required to simulate some of the missing lighting cues. The lower parts of sills and doors are prime spots.

Exactly. In GT4, several cars were plagued with texture dots, mostly the GT3 ones (which were like that, though not as bad, in GT3 as well) but some of the GT4 cars as well. The only car that we seem to see with that problem in the Standard cars video is the C5R, presumably because the rest of the cars in the video are from GT4 (with all that entails) and the C5R is not (with all that entails).

And anyway, which standards? Things like Formula PD, or that PDI kart (that is made up! )

I'm in your game, spoilin' your realism.​

Those are two. There are plenty more, and GTPSP actually made things even worse. Removing junk like that (or at the very least fixing them) would go along way towards supporting the idea that PD went for quality and quantity, but them existing heavily detracts from it.

 

[whatbrown]

If fear it will be hard to avoid if the game have events like those very specific ones in GT4. You know like the Nissan event "Micra Brothers" which restricted the player to drive a compact Nissan. If the career mode is going to be just as huge as it was in GT4, then I think PD would have had a hard time making every event accessible with a premium car. Esepcially with the tendency of most premium cars being rather high-end.

I fear that you are correct

 

[whatbrown]

Probably. There's a ton of closed-minded people on these forums.

Haha. I didn't know that expressing my opinion would be considered closed-minded. Anywho, I prefer a game with no standard models and your opinion may be different, but we are in fact getting a game with approximately 80% of the cars as standard models, or as I like to refer to them, ''sub-standard'' models.

 

[Killa Aaron]

I'm so sick of hearing people complain about the stupid trees, you guys have to remember that the PS3 only has a maximum of 512Mb of ram and the GPU is outdated and it's only so much you can do with that small amount of ram and keep the 60FPS. Therefore sacrifices have to be made to keep the best of things in, would you rather have a Crysis looking environments and PlayStation 2 looking cars? i don't think so, i am grateful for what PD has done with this gen hardware and time constraints while others just keep yapping off but don't know anything about making games.

 

[CoolColJ]

Will this thread just die!

Everyone has their own opinion, and they won't change

 

[Killa Aaron]

Will this thread just die!

Everyone has their own opinion, and they won't change

yeah i wish too

 

[Griffith500]

GT4

Click for higher resolution

GT5


...

Ehm, the GT4 pics are actually of the GT Concept, as first seen in GT4 Prologue. In fact, those are probably Prologue screens, given that it was one of the few cars which could be run with slicks.

...

[pics]​

Those are two. There are plenty more, and GTPSP actually made things even worse. Removing junk like that (or at the very least fixing them) would go along way towards supporting the idea that PD went for quality and quantity, but them existing heavily detracts from it.

I still don't get it!
Are they repeat models? Were they not available in red? They both definitely existed!

 

[Devedander]

Therefore sacrifices have to be made to keep the best of things in, would you rather have a Crysis looking environments and PlayStation 2 looking cars?

There's a false dichotomy for you.

How about a realistic choice like decent looking trees and we knock 200 polygons off each car?

How about instead of PS4 quality cars we have PS3 quality cars becauase... you know... it's a PS3.

I like when people come along, state the PS3 has limited resources and then make claims about what has to be cut exactly where because of it. Like any of us actually knows where and how solid that line is.

Seriously, make the trees * instead of X and it's already a lot better... that would take HOW many extra polygons per track? A few hundred MAYBE? And we have cars with 400k+ polygons EACH?

Yeah there was no wiggle room there.