Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Spagetti69]

^ Actually you only had to read the statement that PD put out that standard cars don't support interior view.
This was put out alot earlier and wasn't part of any embargo.

Many people didn't believe it though.

 

[analog]

I have continually been at a loss for how this whole "Standard / Premium" has come to be the structure in GT5.

However recently I am of the opinion that it was the structure of the game from day one.

All the major improvements have been in the Premiums all along.

I think PD got lost in their own Premium Dev time warp and when they woke up some 5+ yrs later, the standard in racing games had passed their standard concept.
Sort of asleep at the wheel or at the least, absorbed to distraction.

This is the only viable explanation I can concieve of, considering they were scrambling around trying to Dev up a PSP standard car cockpit at the eleventh hour, only to abandon the project. Classic case of too little too late I guess.

You're not the only one and the fact they even considered a blacked-out PSP-style screen to "satisfy" the critics ( like that's even worth considering ) sounds a bit desperate to be honest and surprised me they actually did work on it.
At least we now know for sure the Standard cars are cockpit-less which leaves the game inconsistent for me whilst playing GT5 ( regardless of the other differences, this was and is the main issue for me ) and I'm still trying to get my head around how it will affect the choices I will make whilst playing it.
Thinking about it I'd rather have a far less amount of equally modelled cars as has been said numerous times before, which is not saying by the way they should now ditch the Standard cars as some are still looking forward to those now they are being promised.
If they weren't and they had planned to include only Premium cars and we were expecting far less cars in GT5 from the start ( which would be acceptable when explained that the new time-consuming way of modelling would mean starting again from scratch ) we could only express disappointment at the limited amount of cars perhaps but wouldn't be having this tiresome debate and an inconsistent game.
It's a bit like having real cars and toy cars in the same game but there you go.

 

[STJ88]

NEWSFLASH: KY loves the skyline so much that he decided to make 50 Premium versions of it in GT5 👍

Wish that was true, but GT5 has turned it back on JDM car. To many super car and european cars.

 

[andrewz]

Well first of all the argument that you CANT blame KY because he MIGHT not have been responsible doesn't really hold up... you can't blame him if you KNOW he is not responsible, but unless you do know that, it's still quite reasonable.

And KY is the boss of PD... he runs everything there... now maybe if someone just made a typo or something that's not his fault, but really all decisions and changes have to go through him, or else he is doing a poor job at being in charge... in either case, it's his fault.

I am taking Famines word on this, but as I said, according to him, KY mentioned they tried for 2 months for even cursory cockpit views and they scrapped it.

Neutral is "I'll buy it anyway, it will be a great game!"? Hardly sounds neutral or to the point... is just kind of a toss it in to make sure you aren't just saying something bad about PD and KY and how do you know it will be great? As is common to remind people around here, no one has played the final version yet.

And it will give you a chance to see how far we have come since 2004? That's a positive? I don't think any other game with 80% old models would get that listed as a positive do you?

Let's be honest - you're just pissed. I share this feeling with you a little bit, but... let's be constructive!

"How do you know it will be great?"

I've seen enough.

"And it will give you a chance to see how far we have come since 2004?"

All I meant was that "everything bad is sometimes good for something". Start with karting, go on with consumer's cars, finish with race specials. That's what we know. But do you get my analogy? Now, start with standard models, standard physics and easy damage and continue over premium cars with cockpits, progressive physics and so on... What a motivation, isn't it? Well... no, it is not, just stay pissed, it's your decision. I'm not with you on this.

 

[eSZee]

Can I have a link where KY or PD or Sony confirms we will not have cockpits in standard cars please? If it's true, than...

https://www.gtplanet.net/gamescom-gran-turismo-5-breakout-session-full-details/
very last paragraph

 

[andrewz]

https://www.gtplanet.net/gamescom-gran-turismo-5-breakout-session-full-details/
very last paragraph

Yeah, I've already read your previous post, but thanks for your special care. I knew I read it somewhere, but i couldn't remember, we have too many articles these days... 👍

But I still tend to believe it's a misunderstanding, cause it doesn't make sense to me...

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Thinking about it I'd rather have a far less amount of equally modelled cars as has been said numerous times before, which is not saying by the way they should now ditch the Standard cars as some are still looking forward to those now they are being promised.
If they weren't and they had planned to include only Premium cars and we were expecting far less cars in GT5 from the start ( which would be acceptable when explained that the new time-consuming way of modelling would mean starting again from scratch ) we could only express disappointment at the limited amount of cars perhaps but wouldn't be having this tiresome debate and an inconsistent game.
It's a bit like having real cars and toy cars in the same game but there you go.

👍

That's been my attitude the whole time, but it seems we were in the minority by expecting this generation to start with a smaller car lineup than GT4. It seems more members would rather take an inconsistent higher number, than a uniform-quality lower number.

"How do you know it will be great?"

I've seen enough.

It's amazing how this kind of "answer" only applies to one side of this argument.

 

[Tenacious D]

Given that time is the main reason we have for the whole 2 tier system in the first place.

It depends on what you mean by "time." And I'm going to reiterate a bunch of stuff here because it seems memories run short with many of us.

Kaz basically had GT PSP pushed on him by SONY. He had to put the entire team to work on it at one point because it was so much trouble. I sincerely doubt it took less than a year to take GT4, make it larger, get the essence of the Prologue physics engine to fit into the limited ram of the PSP, and have the whole package reduced to one GB in size. Plus run reliably.

The Polyphony crew has been increased to 140 some odd people at some point. More than likely, most of those are modelers. "Why didn't they do this before, or hire twice as many people?" Well, Polyphony is first party, essentially a subsidiary to SONY Computer Entertainment. This means SONY writes the checks. Just with 130 people, the budget for GT5 had already reached $60 million in late 2008 or early 2009. This could include the cost to make GT PSP, but generally it's assumed it's GT5's budget alone. And the main cost of any project is almost always employee payroll and benefits, if you took any economic classes. You can never guess what a project like this will involve, not completely, especially if you flip the table over in the middle like SONY did with GT PSP.

"So why not outsource modeling work?" This is easily said when you have no idea how business works. First, you have to buy a shop's services, and this is much of the cost. And it's not cheap. And then there's the cost of the work, obviously additional cost. Remember, it's always MUCH cheaper to make a steak dinner than to go to a restaurant. Besides the fact that SONY would probably go ballistic over the added expense, Kaz is pretty protective of his game, and wants to do it all in-house. Considering that GT5 is most likely going to make a tidy fortune for SONY, maybe they could pony up the cash to enlarge Polyphony to the numbers Kaz needs for Gran Turismo.

Some of you would rather have much simpler car models for a lot of just Premium cars. I think Kaz made the right decision. Do you want to face this situation again in GT6? On top of that, if you can get over seeing a polygon facet and loosing an interior now and then, you'll have 1000 some odd cars to play with, not 200. If you can't, oh well.

On the types of cars available in the Premium list, Kaz has to have a few cars from each class for you malcontents who won't touch a Standard with a 10 foot USB cable. Yes, this means you'll be seeing what I referred to for years as "dinkmobiles." I don't like the Prius. I haven't touched it in GT4. But if there's a Prius race in GT5, I'll do it because it meant enough for Kaz to put it into the game, so I'm going to honor him enough to race it. The same with the Fiat 500. And it's going to be much more fun in GT5 because of the very authentic physics we'll get to play with. But the main reason for having a few of each performance range from puny to full bore race cars is, otherwise you'll have a ton of one make races, or you'd be forced to touch those Standard cars.

In fact, the new physics is going to have me racing mostly with the Standard cars, because I want to race them all with the new physics code. The Time Trial demo amazed me, and the code has been tweaked even more. When the preliminary gameshow builds even impress PC sim journalists, you know something special is coming.

On the car count, dave mentioned that Kaz likes big numbers, which is true. But you forget, he always understates them. Remember, GT4 is still mentioned as a game which has more than 650 cars. The actual number is approximately 730.

Oh, one more tidbit: Forza 3 has three generations of car models in it. Even has the same bugs from Forza 1. Never fixed as far as I know, haven't touched it since Christmas.

 

[andrewz]

Neutral is "I'll buy it anyway, it will be a great game!"? Hardly sounds neutral or to the point... is just kind of a toss it in to make sure you aren't just saying something bad about PD and KY and how do you know it will be great? As is common to remind people around here, no one has played the final version yet.

It's amazing how this kind of "answer" only applies to one side of this argument.

I was just infected by all these categories, you know... Just forget it and you'll get my point.

Please stop offending every single letter I write, thanks. There's already a lot of spam.

 

[Griffith500]

You're not the only one and the fact they even considered a blacked-out PSP-style screen to "satisfy" the critics ( like that's even worth considering ) sounds a bit desperate to be honest and surprised me they actually did work on it.
At least we now know for sure the Standard cars are cockpit-less which leaves the game inconsistent for me whilst playing GT5 ( regardless of the other differences, this was and is the main issue for me ) and I'm still trying to get my head around how it will affect the choices I will make whilst playing it.
Thinking about it I'd rather have a far less amount of equally modelled cars as has been said numerous times before, which is not saying by the way they should now ditch the Standard cars as some are still looking forward to those now they are being promised.
If they weren't and they had planned to include only Premium cars and we were expecting far less cars in GT5 from the start ( which would be acceptable when explained that the new time-consuming way of modelling would mean starting again from scratch ) we could only express disappointment at the limited amount of cars perhaps but wouldn't be having this tiresome debate and an inconsistent game.
It's a bit like having real cars and toy cars in the same game but there you go.

Maybe you should save the agonising until you have the game; unless you're hoping that by paying penance in this way now, you can emerge from purgatory that much sooner and just get on with the game, already "over it" ?

Also, don't be so convinced that more cars could have been made for this generation by scaling down the detail; they always said they are constantly looking to preserve the level of detail and secure some kind of future proofing, so the cars (new ones at the least) were always going to be exquisitely modeled; this is probably why GT:HD was thought of in the first place, as a stop gap to tide us over whilst they crack on with the lengthy development.

Instead, we got Prologue. Much better than micro-transactional rubbish.
It could have turned out so many different ways, but as it stands we're getting 200+ premium cars with cockpit view. Maybe it would be easier for some people if they didn't have to "choose" how to play the game, but perhaps this is a sign that the game is growing up a bit?

 

[Spagetti69]

Still doesn't go to answer why they started Gt6 when they could have made more premiums.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

👍

That's been my attitude the whole time, but it seems we were in the minority by expecting this generation to start with a smaller car lineup than GT4. It seems more members would rather take an inconsistent higher number, than a uniform-quality lower number.

At this point I can't say for sure, what exactly I would rather have, other than 1000 premiums. Which is a moot point of course, cause it ain't gonna happen.

Since Kaz has opted for this arrangement, I am trying to keep some faith in his decision, albeit a difficult stance at times, until I can play the game and judge for myself.

Until then, disappointing as it may seem, I don't believe there is much else we can do.

 

[Griffith500]

Still doesn't go to answer why they started Gt6 when they could have made more premiums.

Yes it does. They started GT6 back in 1995

And anyway, where does it say they're working on GT6? Other than somebody saying that a feature that was planned for GT6 was brought forward to GT5...

 

[analog]

Maybe you should save the agonising until you have the game; unless you're hoping that by paying penance in this way now, you can emerge from purgatory that much sooner and just get on with the game, already "over it" ?

Also, don't be so convinced that more cars could have been made for this generation by scaling down the detail; they always said they are constantly looking to preserve the level of detail and secure some kind of future proofing, so the cars (new ones at the least) were always going to be exquisitely modeled; this is probably why GT:HD was thought of in the first place, as a stop gap to tide us over whilst they crack on with the lengthy development.

Instead, we got Prologue. Much better than micro-transactional rubbish.
It could have turned out so many different ways, but as it stands we're getting 200+ premium cars with cockpit view. Maybe it would be easier for some people if they didn't have to "choose" how to play the game, but perhaps this is a sign that the game is growing up a bit?

Yep, I'm trying to get all of my agonising out of the way before I get my copy of GT5, so sorry you if you lot fall victim to me expressing my agony.
This is the only place to do it as in the real world complaining about Standard and Premium is largely misunderstood or being frowned upon at least.
Believe me I've tried only to be met with glaring eyes, disdain, mockery and a whole section of seats for me alone on public transport....

I didn't say by the way many more Premiums could've been created but if they didn't promised all those Standard cars the amount of Premiums we now get could perhaps be accepted if the game as a whole would be more consistent.
But I think what you mean is that I can choose it to be that way if I wanted to by only using Premium cars which is true perhaps.
Knowing myself however I will also use Standards, just preparing myself to go retro.

 

[Spagetti69]

Yes it does. They started GT6 back in 1995

And anyway, where does it say they're working on GT6? Other than somebody saying that a feature that was planned for GT6 was brought forward to GT5...

You just said it yourself.

Kaz was working on Karts for GT6. It was leaked so he felt he should put it in this game.

So yes he was working on GT6. I don't suppose the kart feature was knocked up over a weekend.
So it still stands the more premiums, polishing and what not took a hit due to some staff working on the next iteration.

Are we in agreement that at some stage GT 6,7,8 whatever all cars will have to be at the same level.
Notleast to have a universal livery editor. A feature Kaz has said he wants in the next one.
I like GT alot, I'm not trying to bash the game. It just seems to try to excel in some areas to the detriment of others.
That's all.

 

[eSZee]

Given that time is the main reason we have for the whole 2 tier system in the first place.

Go back to 2005 or 2006 or so and at that time GT:HD was already "advertised" as having tiers of cars. Time, it seems, had very little to do with it and the standard/premium concept was alive from what seems like the beginning.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Some of you would rather have much simpler car models for a lot of just Premium cars. I think Kaz made the right decision. Do you want to face this situation again in GT6? On top of that, if you can get over seeing a polygon facet and loosing an interior now and then, you'll have 1000 some odd cars to play with, not 200. If you can't, oh well.

I don't see anything to indicate we won't be facing this same situation with GT6.

The only difference is the ratio will change from 80/20 to maybe 50/50, depending on how many years they indulge to develop GT6.

 

[Spagetti69]

I think we will get all the same level in GT6.
I know this game will be great but I can't see PD doing this again.

I think the 1000 car total will take a bit of a hit though.
I don't have a problem with that either.

Onwards and upwards with Kaz's opus.

 

[Griffith500]

You just said it yourself.

Kaz was working on Karts for GT6. It was leaked so he felt he should put it in this game.

So yes he was working on GT6. I don't suppose the kart feature was knocked up over a weekend.
So it still stands the more premiums, polishing and what not took a hit due to some staff working on the next iteration.

Are we in agreement that at some stage GT 6,7,8 whatever all cars will have to be at the same level.
Notleast to have a universal livery editor. A feature Kaz has said he wants in the next one.
I like GT alot, I'm not trying to bash the game. It just seems to try to excel in some areas to the detriment of others.
That's all.

You could do a whole lot of supposing, if you wanted to. Of course they're working on the "next game" - sometimes, we get little bits of the next game in the current game as a result, so it's not longer the next game, is it?

They've been working on weather since before GT3; if we don't get it in GT5, are you going to complain that it was a waste of time to bother with it, and we could have had more premiums instead?

It's not like a Call of Duty game, where the next game has a whole different art style, setting and story. GT has no story, really, it's almost like a sandbox, so extra features and content alone are what differentiate each release; in this case, if the features / content aren't ready, they won't make the cut and will be in the next game. On the other hand, if it turns out that much easier than they anticipated then, boom, it can go in.

Let's not be so simplistic, eh?

@analog: I totally respect what you're saying, except I'm fighting my own little battle in my head, so I might occasionally talk to myself instead!

 

[SlipZtrEm]

It depends on what you mean by "time." And I'm going to reiterate a bunch of stuff here because it seems memories run short with many of us.

But assumptions run high for others.

Kaz basically had GT PSP pushed on him by SONY. He had to put the entire team to work on it at one point because it was so much trouble. I sincerely doubt it took less than a year to take GT4, make it larger, get the essence of the Prologue physics engine to fit into the limited ram of the PSP, and have the whole package reduced to one GB in size. Plus run reliably.

Like this. Plus, define "larger"? A handful of added cars (which displace at least as many anyways)? One track not seen in GT4 (though tracks are also missing)? The entirety of Sim Mode cut (well, other than the 100 license-like challenges in PSP)? Photomode gone? Tuning gone, replaced by a much lighter-on-resources Prologue-style system? B-Spec, cut?

Nevermind that we have no real way to compare the physics. The certainly feel similar to Prologue, but that could just be some tweaked values to the base GT4 engine for all we know. The one major difference that would require a new portion of code is the "grass penalty", where your car has noticeably less grip for a few seconds after taking an excusion. The textures are all lower-quality and the tracks have noticeable amounts of scenery removed, which I imagine made the size cut a lot easier too. Just to clarify; these aren't really complaints; I know I for one never expected a literal port of GT4 to PSP. That was genuinely impossible. But "larger"? Heh.

Plus, I still won't play a violin for PD being "forced" to finally come through on a game they had first shown literally years previous. Not to mention having an installment of the series on a handheld, no matter how basic, is still a good idea.

Considering that GT5 is most likely going to make a tidy fortune for SONY, maybe they could pony up the cash to enlarge Polyphony to the numbers Kaz needs for Gran Turismo.

This, I agree with, infact, every time you've mentioned it in this thread . The game sells proportionately better than nearly all of Sony's other titles, it should have a team size that resembles this.

Some of you would rather have much simpler car models for a lot of just Premium cars. I think Kaz made the right decision. Do you want to face this situation again in GT6? On top of that, if you can get over seeing a polygon facet and loosing an interior now and then, you'll have 1000 some odd cars to play with, not 200. If you can't, oh well.

"Now and then" is a conveniently worded way of saying 80% of the cars in the game. It's not some infrequent slip. It is, quite literally, the standard.

On the car count, dave mentioned that Kaz likes big numbers, which is true. But you forget, he always understates them. Remember, GT4 is still mentioned as a game which has more than 650 cars. The actual number is approximately 730.

And if we get rid of all the padding... or plain wrong cars, such as the ones Toronado has mentioned recently...

Oh, one more tidbit: Forza 3 has three generations of car models in it. Even has the same bugs from Forza 1. Never fixed as far as I know, haven't touched it since Christmas.

Proving my point about just not being able to avoid it, huh? Even when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand?

But here, I'll link it; are there any models in FM3 that have been carried over with the exact same polygon model and textures as it had in FM1? Every time I've asked that it's never been answered.

 

[Spagetti69]

Griffo I don't agree but I know how the interwebs work and I'll let you have the last post on it ok.

One thing, do you agree a some point all models will have to be the same. Not just for a livery editor.

Edit. I'll answer your forza question slippy. NO.

 

[VXR]

Some of the carry-over FM2 cars have been vastly improved in detail, too. The 911 Carrera RS and 993 GT2 are significantly improved from older assets.

 

[CTznOfTime]

I think we will get all the same level in GT6.
I know this game will be great but I can't see PD doing this again.

I think the 1000 car total will take a bit of a hit though.
I don't have a problem with that either.

Onwards and upwards with Kaz's opus.

Agreed with you...

by the time GT6 comes out, no doubt we will get more newer / older cars in Premium (never been available in before), on top of the Standard-to-Premium converted cars....


I will enjoy GT5 waiting for GT6!

 

[Devedander]

Ultimately I think GT5 is kind of like the Windows Vista if you will of the current GT series... looks like plans are to finess and finish up GT6 and crank it out making it analgous to the (solid and smooth running) Windows 7 and making prologue kind of like the red headed step child Windows ME.

Realistically it feels like the only REAL GT is going to be somewhere in the future, we just keep getting tech builds and current status demos released as full games in a lot of ways.

 

[Nielsen]

Ultimately I think GT5 is kind of like the Windows Vista if you will of the current GT series...

Hopefully, the standard cars will be the only letdown and not a weird performing package like Vista.

 

[ItsHim]

After playing GT5 and watching it being played a lot at the Gamescom, the Premium models are so very well done and work so beautifully in-game, that it's a bit ridiculous to go this extra mile in the first place.

But the result is simply staggering.

Instead of comparing it to Vista, I would rather compare it to the iPhone or the iPad: it doesn't have all the features one could want. But those features that are already in work so good and are so carefully crafted, that it has the edge on the competition for at least 18 months. With the premiums PD is so far ahead of the competition, which basically means T10 because there is no other console game with the variety of cars and tracks at the market, that they won't catch them at any time soon.

I gladly take the 200 cars, do some unspeakable things to Sony marketing, and maybe enjoy the classic cars once in a while. No big deal, as the new PS3s don't support PS2 games anyway, so it's a nice thing to have them still in the game. Two birds with one stone.

 

[Tenacious D]

I think we will get all the same level in GT6.
I know this game will be great but I can't see PD doing this again.

I think the 1000 car total will take a bit of a hit though.
I don't have a problem with that either.

Onwards and upwards with Kaz's opus.

What he said. GT5 will always be there to enjoy 1000 cars, whether mostly GT4.5 level or not (for Slip's benefit ). Meanwhile, GT6 will most likely consist of hundreds of cars of the same build quality and options. How many is up to speculation, and it depends on how many modelers SONY will fund, but I suspect as many as 600 plus. And the game released in three-plus years.

Like this. Plus, define "larger"?

(snip)

Plus, I still won't play a violin for PD being "forced" to finally come through on a game they had first shown literally years previous. Not to mention having an installment of the series on a handheld, no matter how basic, is still a good idea.

It may not be larger, but I suspect it is. There are certainly more cars. GT4 itself could be 6 GB itself, and like all games, it was compressed and optimized. Haven't you even remarked about the inflation of car models in Photo Mode? You can quibble if you want, but no sensible person with a modicum of knowledge about programming and modeling will understand GT PSP as anything less than an epic achievement.

However, the bold part baffles me. Aren't you still complaining about the disparity in Premiums and Standards, and how few Premiums there are?

I can imagine how your family would respond if you were a husband telling everyone, "We're going on a great vacation soon to a tropical resort!" And then the weeks roll by, summer is nearly over, and your wife and kids begin pummeling you with questions. And you admit, "Well... I had to take a new job in addition to my old one. And... we're going to that resort. Next year. But I'm buying you guys a TON of cheap presents to make up for it! (GT PSP)" I'm sure your popularity would skyrocket. In fact, by everything you've said so far, you'd never forgive your "self."

"Now and then" is a conveniently worded way of saying 80% of the cars in the game. It's not some infrequent slip. It is, quite literally, the standard.

True, but then, I'm not wringing my hands over them like some are. I guess we'll see when the game ships how many people get on here typing page after page of how much they absolutely despise 80% of the game, or won't touch it.

And if we get rid of all the padding... or plain wrong cars, such as the ones Toronado has mentioned recently...

And... are you doing the same for all the other racing games out? Every game does this, Slip. Pardon me for mentioning the F-word, but Forza even does it in their DLC which you have to pay actual MONEY to buy. Not to mention models they still can't get right, though maybe we have Vietnamese to thank for that... but doubtful. Another F-game, Ferrari Challenge, has an inflated car list because of replica F430s. The same with Supercar Challenge. The same with GTR.... etc.

Point taken? Or....

Proving my point about just not being able to avoid it, huh? Even when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand?

Arguing from a vacuum isn't as well footed, Slip. Obama drives many of us crazy because he has almost nothing good to say about America, or bad to say about his job performance. Even though by all accounts, America is still the prime country on the planet, by whatever standard you want to measure. And he seems to be a combination of Bill(ary) Clinton and Chairman Mao.

This is much like the arguments over GT5's bots, and how lame the A.I. is. Except no other game is much better. But for some reason, when it comes to any criticism, the rest of the gaming world is pretty much awesome and it's Gran Turismo which has to be schooled on how to do things right. Or take 2D trees, or whatever. It seems Gran Turismo is forever the W.A.S.P. of the gaming world.

But here, I'll link it; are there any models in FM3 that have been carried over with the exact same polygon model and textures as it had in FM1? Every time I've asked that it's never been answered.

See below.

Some of the carry-over FM2 cars have been vastly improved in detail, too. The 911 Carrera RS and 993 GT2 are significantly improved from older assets.

Yes, some obviously are. But others... you know, it's really hard to see. And when they have the same flaws across three entire games, I'm sometimes not sure T10 even has a Quality Assurance dept.

 

[Dravonic]

And... are you doing the same for all the other racing games out? Every game does this, Slip. Pardon me for mentioning the F-word, but Forza even does it in their DLC which you have to pay actual MONEY to buy. Not to mention models they still can't get right, though maybe we have Vietnamese to thank for that... but doubtful. Another F-game, Ferrari Challenge, has an inflated car list because of replica F430s. The same with Supercar Challenge. The same with GTR.... etc.

Point taken? Or....

You're seriously trying to justify this despicable attitude with "but others do it too"? Come on.

Even though by all accounts, America is still the prime country on the planet, by whatever standard you want to measure.

This is terribly off topic and I really don't want to do this but I can't help myself: What?

 

[Devedander]

Even though by all accounts, America is still the prime country on the planet, by whatever standard you want to measure.

I must have the wrong standards then...

By my standards the best you can say is we consistently make top 40.

This is what happens when you talk about what you feel and think rather than what you have researched and know...

 

[SlipZtrEm]

It may not be larger, but I suspect it is. There are certainly more cars. GT4 itself could be 6 GB itself, and like all games, it was compressed and optimized. Haven't you even remarked about the inflation of car models in Photo Mode? You can quibble if you want, but no sensible person with a modicum of knowledge about programming and modeling will understand GT PSP as anything less than an epic achievement.

So I gave a bunch of reasons as to why it wouldn't be larger, and you write them off with nary a single reason? Just "I suspect"? Hmm.

There aren't more cars, because all those duplicates (like the 3 identical Tiburons) were on all GT4 discs, just that they were (wisely) kept locked depending on region. I'm being honest... what do you mean about the inflation -> Photo Mode thing? I don't follow. Yeah, fitting it all in a GB is an achievement, nobody really questions that.

However, the bold part baffles me. Aren't you still complaining about the disparity in Premiums and Standards, and how few Premiums there are?

What's baffling about it? GT PSP was first announced in 2004.

Yeah, there shouldn't be two tiers. I'm not alone in thinking that. I think I've mentioned that, maybe, Kaz should've enforced a time limit a lot smaller than half a freaking year to completely model one car. You can't tell me that a model done in half that time would only be half as good.

I can imagine how your family would respond if you were a husband telling everyone, "We're going on a great vacation soon to a tropical resort!" And then the weeks roll by, summer is nearly over, and your wife and kids begin pummeling you with questions. And you admit, "Well... I had to take a new job in addition to my old one. And... we're going to that resort. Next year. But I'm buying you guys a TON of cheap presents to make up for it! (GT PSP)" I'm sure your popularity would skyrocket. In fact, by everything you've said so far, you'd never forgive your "self."

While I'd really rather not touch on this bad analogy (not least because I don't ever plan on having to deal with crotch-spawn), here's a novel concept then; don't bite off more than you can chew.

True, but then, I'm not wringing my hands over them like some are. I guess we'll see when the game ships how many people get on here typing page after page of how much they absolutely despise 80% of the game, or won't touch it.

Eh, you know I'm not one of them.

And... are you doing the same for all the other racing games out? Every game does this, Slip. Pardon me for mentioning the F-word, but Forza even does it in their DLC which you have to pay actual MONEY to buy. Not to mention models they still can't get right, though maybe we have Vietnamese to thank for that... but doubtful. Another F-game, Ferrari Challenge, has an inflated car list because of replica F430s. The same with Supercar Challenge. The same with GTR.... etc.

Sure. I'll go do it right now. How many street R33's are there in FM3? 1. How many in GT PSP? 8. Okay, the 1 in FM3 is a V-Spec, GT does give us the "plain" GT-R and the N1. So how many V-Spec R33's does GT PSP have? 4. Does Forza have a 350Z? Why so it does. One, a JDM Fairlady. GT has a US 350Z, a EU 350Z, a Fairlady... and then another 3 with the Ray's wheel option.

I won't deny other games do it, but no other game does it to the sheer heights PD has managed, all in the quest for that ever-important final car count number.

Point taken? Or....

Politics / U-S-A, U-S-A, ra-ra-ra

Surely you know that has no place here.

Yes, some obviously are. But others... you know, it's really hard to see. And when they have the same flaws across three entire games, I'm sometimes not sure T10 even has a Quality Assurance dept.

Amazing. It's "hard to see" an improvement from the first game, which is seemingly problematic for you since it bothers you so much, but it's easy to see Standards haven't been improved at all, and somehow that's acceptable. Not to mention it's "some obviously are"... are 80% of them rehashes, unmodified, from FM1? No?

...

Look, I accept that this two-tier system is here to stay. I only hope it doesn't set off some industry-wide trend promoting laziness and unbalanced features for the sake of bragging rights on a much smaller portion of the game (in this case, the graphic quality of the Premiums). But after over five years waiting, you can't blame people for being disappointed that the majority of the games' models, arguably the centre of a game being billed as an auto-encyclopedia, are carry-overs not just from the last game in the series, but from the last generation of consoles as well. I can see the benefits of them being more future-proof than Standards... but that's a slippery slope too.

"GT6 announces 25 Ultra Premium cars! Taking 18 months to model one car, these are PS5 quality cars, available today for your PS3! Also, enjoy the rest of the lineup, carried over from GT5 untouched. Available April 1, 2015".