Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[eSZee]

💡 👍


Do you walk into an all you can eat buffet and expect one of the best mouth watering steaks you've had? No, you go to a steakhouse for that.

I don't go to those, for a reason. I'm glad though that you think of GT5 as the Old Country Buffet of racing games.

 

[Devedander]

I don't go to those, for a reason. I'm glad though that you think of GT5 as the Old Country Buffet of racing games.

Yeah I thought GT5 WAS the steakhouse... Because you know at a steakhouse I expect a good selection of properly prepared coffee drinks, a full bar with qulality liquors and a trianed bartender, I expect my sides and appetizers to be fresh, quality and properly prepared all on top of a deliciuos steak.

If GT5 is supposed to just be the Sizzler of racing games, then my expectations truly are out of line!

 

[gtracedriver]

First off do you? Only the devs working on this know how much is being used.

But as for the logic of all the other stuff on screen at once, I do know that if you pulled a few hundred polys from each car, or from some of the environments and added it to trees to go from X to at leats * you would end up with much better looking trees and cars and environments that were virtually indinstinguishable from what's there already.



I wanted skilled artists out there to be able to create all the NASCAR liveries, all the ralli liveries and the famous racing teams....



You don't really though... you kind of mention but dismiss where it's due... and we have KY's interviews to confirm some of thes shortcomings, you don't have to wait for release for those even if you are tried and true to "you don't know till it's out."



See again? Where it's less than polished, dismimsive rationlization. It's just extras... really? They went through the trouble to get licenses and we will just say they are extras?

This is exaclty the kinnd of behavior I am talking about.



I am amazed that after this many years and all the adament fan praise, "ok for a sim" cuts it for anything in GT....

BTW photos never show the real problem with X trees, that doesn't show up until you end up spining out near one and the continuity of forward motion is broken... then they stick out like sore thumbs.

I suppose the anser is "never spin out" right?



Nice, because I totally mentioned that as one of the things I was dissapointed in right? That was totally on topic right?

Oh no it wasn't. It's just standard fan practice to bring up something good about GT in every post even if it's not on point.



Uh huh... this is like those guys who said "damage is uncessary, if you were a good driver you wouldn't collide with stuff". Yeah... that's how it works at all...

BTW don't let the guys posting videos of their driving the demo see that, many of them have spun out a few times. Wouldn't want to insult them now would we?



So what you are saying is T10 has been in the semi sim business for about as long as PD has been working on GT5 alone and they have already cranked out 2 legitimately quality games across 2 generations of hardware with a third that could be viewed as a massive content update in some lights than a real new version...

That doesn't sound too shabby to me...

I will not post wall of text

They have WRC, Nascar license which is obviously good thing as other racing game even do not have it. But it is just a feature which they were able to acquire. As far as I know not even official WRC game will have real stages.

GT5 have every good looking tracks and also trees are great at some of them, like Eiger:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnkPdmY60s4

GT5 will have even better gfx, nice detailed tracks and good trees too for racing sim. They also put lots of effort on tracks.
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7894/gt51.jpg
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/4961/gt5ring.jpg

Complaining over trees on GT5 is pretty stupid IMO. There is no need for them to render thousands of accurate looking trees Also Turn10 have done a good job in Forza but they are miles behind GT. Moreover Forza3 was released 4yrs after 360. GT5 will be released 4yrs after PS3 was launched

 

[eSZee]

This isn't very on topic nor is it about the ongoing "debate", but does everyone else just love days following a convention as much as I do? Day or two afterward and it's deja vu. All the news and pictures that were released days ago, get regurgitated by those who apparently fell asleep for 48hrs and upon awakening, have no idea they were out for more than 5 minutes.

/end rant

 

[Devedander]

Complaining over trees on GT5 is pretty stupid IMO. There is no need for them to render thousands of accurate looking trees

When you have to resort to such exagerations to make a point... you probably don't have a point.

No one said thousands of realistic trees... just half a dozen reasonably trees that don't stick out like sore thumbs and then reuse them and spread them around. I am not looking for the Avatar of forests here, I am just looking for something not distractingly low quaulity.

Also Turn10 have done a good job in Forza but they are miles behind GT. Moreover Forza3 was released 4yrs after 360. GT5 will be released 4yrs after PS3 was launched

GT4 was released around 05. Forza 1 was released around the same time.

So T10 have been working on the Forza series only a little longer than PD have been working on GT5. And unlike PD with F1 they didn't have a huge pool of resources to dip into for a large part of their in game assets.

This isn't very on topic nor is it about the ongoing "debate", but does everyone else just love days following a convention as much as I do? Day or two afterward and it's deja vu. All the news and pictures that were released days ago, get regurgitated by those who apparently fell asleep for 48hrs and upon awakening, have no idea they were out for more than 5 minutes.

/end rant

Hey did you know that on the US GT site it says interior camera views aren't supported?

And this is minus the stuff the mods clean up before most of us see it... I have no idea how they keep sane while doing their jobs for so long...

 

[Pierced Lead]

I will not post wall of text

They have WRC, Nascar license which is obviously good thing as other racing game even do not have it. But it is just a feature which they were able to acquire. As far as I know not even official WRC game will have real stages.

GT5 have every good looking tracks and also trees are great at some of them, like Eiger:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnkPdmY60s4

GT5 will have even better gfx, nice detailed tracks and good trees too for racing sim. They also put lots of effort on tracks.
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7894/gt51.jpg
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/4961/gt5ring.jpg

Complaining over trees on GT5 is pretty stupid IMO. There is no need for them to render thousands of accurate looking trees Also Turn10 have done a good job in Forza but they are miles behind GT. Moreover Forza3 was released 4yrs after 360. GT5 will be released 4yrs after PS3 was launched

Not surprisingly, the trees stand out to be the most horrible aspects of the scenery in those pics.

And I personally think that criticizing the trees of GT5 is OK, for quite the eye candy it shows itself to be (and which it is, I will not deny), to use assets and techniques of stone age technology will be like putting a urinating cow in a beautiful bliss, which is exactly why many moan about the standards.

That being said...

 

[boommoob1]

Didnt Forza 3 bomb?. It's sales were pretty terrible.

If Forza was on PS3 rather than a MS game it wouldnt even be mentioned on these forums. These forums will become a warzone as GT5's release approaches and Xbox fans become even more desperate to downplay the game. Bloody annoying coming onto a site to read about GT and being met with a barrage of people oh so obviously trying to downplay the game. Gt5 is almost guaranteed to sell gangbusters all you're doing is building yourselves up for heartbreak.

 

[Devedander]

Didnt Forza 3 bomb?. It's sales were pretty terrible.

If Forza was on PS3 rather than a MS game it wouldnt even be mentioned on these forums. These forums will become a warzone as GT5's release approaches and Xbox fans become even more desperate to downplay the game. Bloody annoying coming onto a site to read about GT and being met with a barrage of people oh so obviously trying to downplay the game. Gt5 is almost guaranteed to sell gangbusters all you're doing is building yourselves up for heartbreak.

The ironic thing is most of the FM talk is started by GT fans who like to make sure they build up GT as much as possible by smack talking the competition.

 

[VXR]

Forza fans were once GT fans. Why is that something that is always ignored by people when people still follow GT like its some sort of religion?

I can't comment on the physics side as I haven't played this gen of GT, but I don't sit there thinking Forza's physics are in any way wrong because I've done a lot of fast driving and know how cars react. Forza has it pretty spot on for a console sim played with a pad.

I do know that if I get a PS3 to play GT5, that even if it does feel better, I won't be able to paint a car as a change of pace and put my creativity on the game and that counts for a lot more.

GT is in danger of becoming an anachronism and a lot of people are too blinded by fanboyism to notice it. I'm an Apple user, I should dislike MS as a matter of principle, but in the console market they are doing a very good job and I'm not blind enough to recognise that.

 

[gtracedriver]

When you have to resort to such exagerations to make a point... you probably don't have a point.

No one said thousands of realistic trees... just half a dozen reasonably trees that don't stick out like sore thumbs and then reuse them and spread them around. I am not looking for the Avatar of forests here, I am just looking for something not distractingly low quaulity.



GT4 was released around 05. Forza 1 was released around the same time.

So T10 have been working on the Forza series only a little longer than PD have been working on GT5. And unlike PD with F1 they didn't have a huge pool of resources to dip into for a large part of their in game assets.



Hey did you know that on the US GT site it says interior camera views aren't supported?

And this is minus the stuff the mods clean up before most of us see it... I have no idea how they keep sane while doing their jobs for so long...

Not surprisingly, the trees stand out to be the most horrible aspects of the scenery in those pics.

And I personally think that criticizing the trees of GT5 is OK, for quite the eye candy it shows itself to be (and which it is, I will not deny), to use assets and techniques of stone age technology will be like putting a urinating cow in a beautiful bliss, which is exactly why many moan about the standards.

That being said...

Nurburring is having hundreds, intact I think it is surrounded by thousands of trees. It is impossible to get those 3D models.

I am sure GT5 will have very detailed tracks. They put lot of efforts in attention to detail. Gfx are amazing and photo-realistic. I have seen real life images with trees at back drop and they all look 2D like the pic I posted of Spanish GP.

 

[Jedi2016]

I wasn't aware that FM3 bombed.. I thought it did pretty well, all things considered. Sure, it's not GT, but only fanboys would really make a big deal out of it. I forget which review it was I read.. That Xbox owners could be happy enough with Forza to not feel bad about not having GT, and likewise for PS3 owners. Multi-console owners get the best of both worlds, so to speak. I have FM3, and I think it's fine. In fact, I'll probably play it later today.

 

[Devedander]

Nurburring is having hundreds, intact I think it is surrounded by thousands of trees. It is impossible to get those 3D models.

I am sure GT5 will have very detailed tracks. They put lot of efforts in attention to detail. Gfx are amazing and photo-realistic. I have seen real life images with trees at back drop and they all look 2D like the pic I posted of Spanish GP.

Are you intentionally ignoring the parts where I say things like:

No one said thousands of realistic trees... just half a dozen reasonably trees that don't stick out like sore thumbs and then reuse them and spread them around. I am not looking for the Avatar of forests here, I am just looking for something not distractingly low quaulity.

In the very post you quote?

No one is saying the trees should be photorealistc to every single tree on the course... we are saying having X's for trees is startlingly poor quality especially amidst all the other eye candy, just make reasonable steps to resolve that.

The hub cap of one premium car probably has far more polys necessary than to update every tree on the ring. Finding a way to redistribute the resources in a way that makes the trees much better looking without noteably damaginga anything else seems reasonable.

 

[Gryzor]

GT is in danger of becoming an anachronism and a lot of people are too blinded by fanboyism to notice it. I'm an Apple user, I should dislike MS as a matter of principle, but in the console market they are doing a very good job and I'm not blind enough to recognise that.

I find your use of big words there rather anachronistic. People buy Gran Turismo to race a wide variety of cars on a wide variety of tracks, not sit there and put stickers on cars. I'm not blind enough to insist that just because another raing game has this feature, GT5 needs it too.

When Kaz believes the time is right, and they are happy with the quality of such a feature, only then will you get it. Until that time...

 

[eSZee]

Hey did you know that on the US GT site it says interior camera views aren't supported?

I'm not sure if you missed it, but I just discovered GT5 is coming out November 2nd in the US!!!!

 

[Tornado]

People buy Gran Turismo to race a wide variety of cars on a wide variety of tracks, not sit there and put stickers on cars. I'm not blind enough to insist that just because another raing game has this feature, GT5 needs it too.

No, but you are blind enough to act as if you speak for the people who play Gran Turismo not wanting a feature because they wouldn't use it.

When Kaz believes the time is right, and they are happy with the quality of such a feature, only then will you get it. Until that time...

And here we go again with that "Kaz is a perfectionist, so that feature isn't in the game" nonsense.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

@Ivorbiggun. Are you TRC IVORBIGGUN, if so hats off to you sir. You have some pretty fast times out there. Been checking the leaderboards.

Well done.

I am indeed mate and thanks.

Im really looking forward to hitting the GT5 time trial leaderboards but unfortunately my main questions remain unanswered.

Didnt Forza 3 bomb?. It's sales were pretty terrible.

I think FM3 sold 2.8 million copies which is 2million less than GT5P.

Shall be interesting to see the sales of FM4 because you have the combination of many playing GT5 and some of the Forza community being mistrusting of buying another game from Turn 10.

Like i've said before I remain the only TRC member playing FM3 and yet TRC was formed when Forza 1 was released.

No one said thousands of realistic trees... just half a dozen reasonably trees that don't stick out like sore thumbs and then reuse them and spread them around. I am not looking for the Avatar of forests here, I am just looking for something not distractingly low quaulity.

.

Really hope I bump into you in an online race on GT5. Should be very easy to beat you as I will be focussing on racing whilst you are staring at the trees.

 

[Devedander]

I'm not sure if you missed it, but I just discovered GT5 is coming out November 2nd in the US!!!!

Holy cow that Amar guy was right! Someone should tell him!

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I wasn't aware that FM3 bombed.. I thought it did pretty well, all things considered. Sure, it's not GT, but only fanboys would really make a big deal out of it. I forget which review it was I read.. That Xbox owners could be happy enough with Forza to not feel bad about not having GT, and likewise for PS3 owners. Multi-console owners get the best of both worlds, so to speak. I have FM3, and I think it's fine. In fact, I'll probably play it later today.

FM3 has sold about 3 million. Decent but no gang buster, considering there are over 40 million XB360s sold.
FM2 sold 4 million, so FM3 hasn't done as well so far.

I don't mean this next comment to be derogatory, just a matter of fact.

GT hasn't sold one copy as of yet on the PS3.
However preorders will probably will go gold.

I do expect GT5 to out sell FM3 though, but the proof of that is likely months away. There will be about 40 million PS3s sold by the time GT5 hits the shelves.

 

[Griffith500]

Are you intentionally ignoring the parts where I say things like:

No one said thousands of realistic trees... just half a dozen reasonably trees that don't stick out like sore thumbs and then reuse them and spread them around. I am not looking for the Avatar of forests here, I am just looking for something not distractingly low quaulity.

In the very post you quote?

No one is saying the trees should be photorealistc to every single tree on the course... we are saying having X's for trees is startlingly poor quality especially amidst all the other eye candy, just make reasonable steps to resolve that.

The hub cap of one premium car probably has far more polys necessary than to update every tree on the ring. Finding a way to redistribute the resources in a way that makes the trees much better looking without noteably damaginga anything else seems reasonable.

Would that mean we'd get premium and standard trees on the same track, at the same time? I don't know, I think it'd look terrible...

@SuperCobraJet: I doubt GT5 will go Platinum (as I assume you meant - going gold is being ready for "printing" and distribution) before even being released.

On the plus side, a platinum version of GT5 at some point will probably get rid of most of the negatives of DLC, as presumably, it'd come with it all already. 👍
Doesn't help us who bought it at launch, mind you...

 

[VXR]

360 is largely an FPS/Action fan's console and that's what most of the games are.

The racing genre is largely dead, with a few big players and lots of poor budget ones coming every now an again. Racing games these days are niche and GT and FM are the biggest players in a declining market.

As for the 'putting stickers on' in the game, it must be really insignificant as a feature when people have used it to design real race liveries.

 

[Devedander]

I do expect GT5 to out sell FM3 though, but the proof of that is likely months away. There will be about 40 million PS3s sold by the time GT5 hits the shelves.

I don't think it will even take months...

Would that mean we'd get premium and standard trees on the same track, at the same time? I don't know, I think it'd look terrible...

As I said before... you don't need every tree modeled uniquely, you make a dozen or so and then just keep reusing them spread around... you know... like they do with the X trees right now.

 

[Devedander]

Doulbe post.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

@SuperCobraJet: I doubt GT5 will go Platinum (as I assume you meant - going gold is being ready for "printing" and distribution) before even being released.

Oops. You are correct.
Platinum may be a stretch, but who knows.

On the plus side, a platinum version of GT5 at some point will probably get rid of most of the negatives of DLC, as presumably, it'd come with it all already. 👍
Doesn't help us who bought it at launch, mind you...

I think this is more likely.

 

[Beliall]

Hmmm, GT5 GOTY Edition.

 

[Griffith500]

I don't think it will even take months...



As I said before... you don't need every tree modeled uniquely, you make a dozen or so and then just keep reusing them spread around... you know... like they do with the X trees right now.

It was a joke. Honestly I don't care about the trees, except for photomode.

 

[Forza4life]

@ Davedander
You know for someone who critisizes GT so much and praises Turn10's work so much you sure spend alot of time talking about GT instead of playing Turn10's games. If you're so clearly unhappy with GT5's foibles (and I don't deny it has foibles, just like any other game) then I don't understand why you spend so much time on this forum trying to tell people how wrong they are.

I don't have a problem with you speaking your mind and opinion but when you do it repeatedly and constantly rebuttle anyone who has a different opinion, I mean surely one can begin to think you're just trying to pot stir. I just want to know your motive. "I just want to voice my opinion/criticism" won't cut it cause you've been doing it for about 3 months straight and it's like a neverending loop. you pounce upon anything negative and you completely disregard the positives.

Edit: I take that back. Nvm . Still the first time I've seen him write something like that though.


Shame it got locked, looked like it might've been a good laugh (responses).


https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=128510

 

[Devedander]

Really hope I bump into you in an online race on GT5. Should be very easy to beat you as I will be focussing on racing whilst you are staring at the trees.

Why am I not surprised? Can't rebut a solid point? Exagerate the crap out of it and then turn it into a personal attack... \\

Edit: I take that back. Nvm . Still the first time I've seen him write something like that though.


Shame it got locked, looked like it might've been a good laugh (responses).


https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=128510

It might well have!

The story behind that was someone created a thread called "Epic whiners ragers and emos" or something like that as a sort of way to take a stab at anyone who had a negative opinion... I think trying to make people so ashamed of it that they would shut up and leave. Ironically people did just what the thread asked, kept the negatives to that thread more or less and it went on for dozens of pages I believe...

So I made an equally absurd but opposite thread to see if the fanboys would walk the walk and keep it out of the emo thread and stay in their own thread... nope... complaints and it got locked almost immediately and the fanboys stuck to going into the thread for complainers and complaining about all the complainers

 

[eSZee]

Why am I not surprised? Can't rebut a solid point? Exagerate the crap out of it and then turn it into a personal attack...

Such is the way of the fanboy.

 

[Forgetful]

Demanding? I let my expectation be guided by:

The direction KY and PD have announced they wanted to go

What is standard in the industry and expected

Even somehwat by the fanbases insistance that KY is a perfectionist, he is an artist, he is some kind of God, he should only be address as sensei...

I don't demand... I just expect what I am believe to be reasonable.

But at what point, once they've said they can't do something, do you let it go? Acceptance seems to impossible with some of you.

I'm not defending those who want to call Kaz a god, but don't be the equivalent negative.

There is a rash generalization...

I played the crap out of 24 Hour Lemans, Rallisport Challenge 1/2, TOCA 2/3, RBR the list goes on...

You want to know honestly what has caused me to stop short in most cases when a game doesn't hold up? A lack of consistency in the experience and imersion.

No PD has their priorities and we NOW know what they are.

And apparently the priority is EVERYTHING and thus the very issues I am addressing.

Hmm, yet you don't mention any of the game that create the current industry standard you've come to expect. Shift is a great example. It's got the livery editor, Porsches, Damage and all, but, it feels like driving on marshmallows. There's no point in playing a car game that doesn't feel like driving a car.

Edit: Obviously EVERYTHING isn't their priority. If it's a priority, you make sure it's part of the final product.

 

[alucard0712]

It was a joke. Honestly I don't care about the trees, except for photomode.

Just reduce shutter speed to smooth the background as PD always do!