Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[II IVORBIGUN II]

Kaz should have put his foot down and left the game at 200 premiums and been able to soak up the praise for a graphical powerhouse and not have 200 brilliant cars and 800 poor relations. It's a poor compromise to suit numbers fans.

I really don't understand this comment. If you don't like the standard cars then don't use them whereas for people like myself are still happy to use the standard cars. This gives us the option to choose which cars we want to use but if PD followed your advice we wouldn't have a choice.

 

[MA3LK]

So let me get this straight you wouldn't be complaining if they only had the 200+ premiums?

Yea i suspect most people would if there wasn't 800 standard cars. You can hardly play GT mode with that many cars, your starting car selection would be very limited.

 

[Killa Aaron]

No I wouldn't! If we had only the premiums, proper damage, weather and day night cycle across the whole board I would be happy. Who knows how much they could have improved and added if they hadn't bothered spending time porting those cars! We may have even got more premiums, maybe a full track editor and a livery editor.

Robin.

I'm going to explain to you like i told someone else and why your complaining is moot, PD has a total of 140 employees and we don't know how many of them are graphic artist now do we? also consider whatever the x amount of graphic artist just can't work on cars alone, and they had to start from scratch and do tracks and other elements for the environments they also had to travel around the globe to get track data record sound data take thousands of pictures etc, and that's where you fail to realize all the stuff they had to do, it took them a year to build and optimize the engine so GT5 could run on the PS3. Point 2. the 800 standard cars are GT4 models so how could you say they wasted any time to import them when hardly any work is needed and was done to do it. Point 3. As for weather time cycles and damage I'd like to see you try to do all that on a 5 year old oudated GPU with only 512MB of RAM and keep a steady 60 FPS @ 720P & 1080P and have 16 cars on track at once, that's a lot of calculations and if you knew anything about programing you wouldn't be complaining like this.

IMO 200 Premiums fine, 800 standards fine, it's just impossible to do all 1000 car exteriors and interiors in a five year period with only so many graphic artists and considering the fact that interiors wasn't on the checklist in the beginning in GT Vision i am very grateful for what they have accomplished with the PS3 hardware and you won't hear any complaints from me.

 

[Custer85]

The 200+ cars will contain alot of reasonably priced cars aswell. Look at all the Lancers, the Cappuccino, the old Supra 3.0 Turbo (which was my first car in GT4), Fiat 500, BMW 135i, Citroen C4, Daihatsu Copen Active Top, Ford Focus ST, Honda Civic, Integra, Lancia Delta and so on. I think playing the GT Mode without ever touching a standard car is possible and the premium car selection was probably put together with that in mind.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

I'm going to explain to you like i told someone else and why your complaining is moot, PD has a total of 140 employees and we don't know how many of them are graphic artist now do we? also consider whatever the x amount of graphic artist just can't work on cars alone, and they had to start from scratch and do tracks and other elements for the environments they also had to travel around the globe to get track data record sound data take thousands of pictures etc, and that's where you fail to realize all the stuff they had to do, it took them a year to build and optimize the engine so GT5 could run on the PS3. Point 2. the 800 standard cars are GT4 models so how could you say they wasted any time to import them when hardly any work is needed and was done to do it. Point 3. As for weather time cycles and damage I'd like to see you try to do all that on a 5 year old oudated GPU with only 512MB of RAM and keep a steady 60 FPS @ 720P & 1080P and have 16 cars on track at once, that's a lot of calculations and if you knew anything about programing you wouldn't be complaining like this.

IMO 200 Premiums fine, 800 standards fine, it's just impossible to do all 1000 car exteriors and interiors in a five year period with only so many graphic artists and considering the fact that interiors wasn't on the checklist in the beginning in GT Vision i am very grateful for what they have accomplished with the PS3 hardware and you won't hear any complaints from me.

What an excellent post which I hope others read and understand.

The trouble with some people is their expectations are way too high. We have some who want 1000 premium cars, abundance of 3D trees, Full Nascar/WRC mode. Well if some want this then GT5 would never see a release date.

Anyway im now suspecting some of the comments on this thread are being deliberately negative. I feel some are actually getting a kick out of trying to spoil everyones excitement for GT5 by being negative so they get a response. Basically I think we have a few trolls here!

 

[Spagetti69]

If anyone takes offence in a thread titled standard vs premium then don't visit this thread.

The nature of this thread is bound to bring up negative vibes.
I'm not to happy about the situation but in other threads I posted positives when I see fit.

To those upset, don't visit this thread.

 

[Pierced Lead]

Several things I just don't seem to understand...

1. Why do people just assume that the standards are imported from the previous games and implemented as they are? Sure it may have been just to up the car count but that in no way means they wouldn't get some graphical updates as well - it's not even hard to do it, those cars have such a low poly count it's not really an issue to update textures and what not.

2. Why are people talking like the only graphical asset GT5 is going to have are the cars?

I really am not bothered by how last-gen or poor the standards are in comparison to the premiums. I still enjoy looking at GT4 replays even after looking at GT5P for a while, I am going to buy and use most if not all of them anyway.

 

[Spagetti69]

1 I hope your right mate. Quite possibly you are who knows. I think most negatives are just people expressing their fears.

2 I am sure many more graphical effects are outstanding and I believe that.
The cars are the star though, wouldn't you agree.

 

[J.Luca]

My 2 cents:

1. Maybe it's because I grew up playing sega and ps1 games but that nsx looks damn good. The premiums are frankly unbelievable (overkill some might say).

2. I'm amazed at how many people think GT (or Forza for that matter) is a simulation.

3. I wish I had a ps3 to play GT5. At least rFactor is free. Sort of.

 

[Robin]

I'm going to explain to you like i told someone else and why your complaining is moot, PD has a total of 140 employees and we don't know how many of them are graphic artist now do we? also consider whatever the x amount of graphic artist just can't work on cars alone, and they had to start from scratch and do tracks and other elements for the environments they also had to travel around the globe to get track data record sound data take thousands of pictures etc, and that's where you fail to realize all the stuff they had to do, it took them a year to build and optimize the engine so GT5 could run on the PS3. Point 2. the 800 standard cars are GT4 models so how could you say they wasted any time to import them when hardly any work is needed and was done to do it. Point 3. As for weather time cycles and damage I'd like to see you try to do all that on a 5 year old oudated GPU with only 512MB of RAM and keep a steady 60 FPS @ 720P & 1080P and have 16 cars on track at once, that's a lot of calculations and if you knew anything about programing you wouldn't be complaining like this.

I appreciate what your saying but I dont agree, I understand very well how much time it takes to research, model and render everything in GT5 (I use 3D CAD on a daily basis) but my arguement is by adding the GT4 cars time has been taken away from other things they could have been working on.

The cars are not simply ported into GT5, they apparently have all been tweaked and reworked slightly to make them look more presentable (although it still looks like GT4 in HD). For 800 cars that takes lots of time from workers who could have been doing something else, like maybe making damage the same level for all cars, or making sure all tracks have a day night cycle etc. Point being PD should have hired more staff if they wanted to upgrade so many cars.

Basically put, the less standard cars added the less 'gimped' the features of GT5 would be. Most of GT's new groundbreaking features are limited in some sort of way and I'm sure if PD didnt want to leave it like that.

As for the specs of the PS3 thats rubbish because PD can do all the features they want on some tracks which means they can do them on all tracks its just they didnt have the time. They always bite off more than they can chew, they have done it with every GT.

Its nothing to do with hardware limitations because PS3 has lots of untapped potential and isnt even halfway through its life cycle so way more impressive games are yet to come on the same hardware, maybe GT6 will be on the same machine and we will look back and say this looks quite poor.

Robin.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

The trouble with some people is their expectations are way too high. We have some who want 1000 premium cars, abundance of 3D trees, Full Nascar/WRC mode. Well if some want this then GT5 would never see a release date.

The trouble here is not with the people and their expectations, but rather with Suny and the almost 6 yr Dev. time.
Their expectations are a direct result of this, IMO justifiably so.

We should have gotten this game a year ago or sooner.

Thats the contention.

Do you have any expectations?
Or is whatever we get in whatever time frame, OK with you?

Anyway im now suspecting some of the comments on this thread are being deliberately negative. I feel some are actually getting a kick out of trying to spoil everyones excitement for GT5 by being negative so they get a response. Basically I think we have a few trolls here!

It can just as easily be said from the other side of the argument:

There's some "Fanboyism" going on here.


Your obviously right about one thing, we would likely never see a release date.

 

[Pierced Lead]

1 I hope your right mate. Quite possibly you are who knows. I think most negatives are just people expressing their fears.

2 I am sure many more graphical effects are outstanding and I believe that.
The cars are the star though, wouldn't you agree.

1. It makes sense, even the standard car video showed it.

2. Yes, the cars are the stars. But most people here think the LOD in GT5 just dropped drastically because of the inclusion of standard cars, whereas what I believe is, the lighting is one of the most impressive aspects of the game and will make (and from the video, has) the standards look good.

 

[KilzoneStrife]

Well..clearly,Toyota paid well,as did Nissan,cuz PD spent alot of time designing hardware for them.... ,it took time away from creating interiors for standards or making more premiums.How can sony sell millions of copies of GT,move onto the ps3 and not hire more permanent staff? ? ? ! !

 

[Robin]

Well..clearly,Toyota paid well,as did Nissan,cuz PD spent alot of time designing hardware for them.... ,it took time away from creating interiors for standards or making more premiums.How can sony sell millions of copies of GT,move onto the ps3 and not hire more permanent staff? ? ? ! !

Exactly, all that fafing around with developing car companies tech, GT Academy, GT PSP and implementing 3D (a request from up top!) has taken loads of time out of the schedule. Not to mention porting and upgrading all the GT4 cars. They really should have an entirely separate department for 'non video game affairs' and a separate developer doing the portable GT's.

Trying to do a game this big with only about 150 staff is stupid, if this was EA they would probably thow 500+ people at it! The PD staff have to sleep at the office they are so strapped for time!, thats bad management of such an important title.

Robin.

 

[Spagetti69]

Didn't stop them working on gt6 with the karts though.
I find that strange.

 

[Killa Aaron]

I appreciate what your saying but I dont agree, I understand very well how much time it takes to research, model and render everything in GT5 (I use 3D CAD on a daily basis) but my arguement is by adding the GT4 cars time has been taken away from other things they could have been working on.

The cars are not simply ported into GT5, they apparently have all been tweaked and reworked slightly to make them look more presentable (although it still looks like GT4 in HD). For 800 cars that takes lots of time from workers who could have been doing something else, like maybe making damage the same level for all cars, or making sure all tracks have a day night cycle etc. Point being PD should have hired more staff if they wanted to upgrade so many cars.

Basically put, the less standard cars added the less 'gimped' the features of GT5 would be. Most of GT's new groundbreaking features are limited in some sort of way and I'm sure if PD didnt want to leave it like that.

As for the specs of the PS3 thats rubbish because PD can do all the features they want on some tracks which means they can do them on all tracks its just they didnt have the time. They always bite off more than they can chew, they have done it with every GT.

Its nothing to do with hardware limitations because PS3 has lots of untapped potential and isnt even halfway through its life cycle so way more impressive games are yet to come on the same hardware, maybe GT6 will be on the same machine and we will look back and say this looks quite poor.

Robin.

Yes more impressive games are releasing on the PS3 but none are no where near as technical as GT5, i admit that Kaz eyes were bigger than his stomach by using 300,000 - 400,000 bump mapped polygon renders plus the environments, and that's where i'm telling you that it is indeed the hardware it's just not possible to render all of that on screen with a constant 60 FPS in HD with all of these extra effects and physics that you want without consequence, and if you watch some of these vids from Gamescom you will notice that PD are pushing the GPU with the heavy smoke effects cause you will see a slight drop in FPS sometimes, and we still don't know if the game will be able to handle rain on the ring at night with 16 cars and if they can't do that then you know why, cause it's just way too many things going on for the GPU to handle.

Also i can understand why some things didn't make it due to the fact that he didn't have a complete set of blueprints in front of him 5 years ago.

also if you had this baby http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_gtx_480_us.html with 2GB of ram in the PS3 you would have everything you wanted, complete real-time deformation on cars, rubber particles on the track from burnouts, tiny pieces of glass and plastic from car crashes, anisotropic filtering for better draw distance and textures, accumulative rain droplets and snow, 8 or 16x AA, sand particles and clumps of dirt off of the tires if you spun out into a certain area going back on to the track.

Exactly, all that fafing around with developing car companies tech, GT Academy, GT PSP and implementing 3D (a request from up top!) has taken loads of time out of the schedule. Not to mention porting and upgrading all the GT4 cars. They really should have an entirely separate department for 'non video game affairs' and a separate developer doing the portable GT's.

Trying to do a game this big with only about 150 staff is stupid, if this was EA they would probably thow 500+ people at it! The PD staff have to sleep at the office they are so strapped for time!, thats bad management of such an important title.

Robin.

I totally agree GT PSP was not needed at all nor the 3d function.

 

[KilzoneStrife]

Didn't stop them working on gt6 with the karts though.
I find that strange.

It is very strange....,Its something Im not happy about..and I pray to God that those go karts dont count as premiums.if so that explains how premiums jumped from 150 to 200 and now maybe just over 200 with Nascar.I'd be dissapointed so much.Obviously,Nascar had to have also paid to be included..

 

[analog]

Just a thought, maybe it's already been mentioned before, but remember the rumours of GT5 having 2 disks a while back?
Could it be that one disk contains Premium whilst the other contains Standard cars in the same way arcade and GT-mode were split in GT2?
One being essentially GT5 whilst the other being an upgraded GT4 with new improved physics, graphics, etc.?
There seems to be a lot dividing these 2 car-types, not only graphics and cockpit view but damage, headlights ( minor perhaps but still ) and customization options.
Before you can say, what about the used car section, there were those old Japanese Premium sportscars in recent screenshots.
To me it would make sense and the constant transition between switching from cockpit view to another view and all other differences would diminish somewhat.
Any thoughts?

 

[G.T.Ace]

I doubt that would be necessary with Blu-ray.

 

[analog]

I doubt that would be necessary with Blu-ray.

Maybe not technically necessary as in enough space, etc. but a physical separation.
Or just two different game-modes on one Blu-ray disk.

 

[paulpg87]

that standards cars are joke, they sucks a lot. damn

Imo they'll be separeted in the game, they looks too bad compared to premium.

 

[Enex]

We'll see about that. I believe that there is a reason why they aren't showing them: they are working on them.
The TGS will clear up all doubts, I hope.

 

[KilzoneStrife]

that standards cars are joke, they sucks a lot. damn

Imo they'll be separeted in the game, they looks too bad compared to premium.

I really think they'll be seperated..which will even more dissapointing...

 

[KilzoneStrife]

We'll see about that. I believe that there is a reason why they aren't showing them: they are working on them.
The TGS will clear up all doubts, I hope.

...well,we know for sure theres no interiors.maybe fix some textures...but thats it.Im guessing at TGS,they might show standard cars,if they do,it'll only be with other standard cars.If it is the case,Standards only race standards,and premiums with other premiums..its going to suck.its already a hard pill to swallow with confirmation of no interiors,but such a huge seperation would be terrible

 

[Enex]

I'm not talking about interiors, obviously. I know that Standard Cars won't have cockpit view, but I've already dealt with it, and I kinda knew it even before Kaz announced it by himself.
I'm not so sure about separation.

 

[paulpg87]

i prefer a separation, those standard will ruin also the premium experience.. or at least a choice before you start the game, i'd choose for a gt mode with only premium, 200+ is more than enough for me.

 

[eSZee]

Oh really.... well how come its on the official US playstation blog then! Don't misinform people because then it will spread all over the net.

Probably for the same reason PD dubs, puts in fake engine sounds, into official trailers. Probably for the same reason Porsche used a screen shot from GTPSP in one of their car adverts.

I dont know why but its official and that picture is on many other gaming websites who have recieved the official gamescom screens. I made sure I got it from the official blog specifically incase people said it was fake!

Robin.

No one is saying it's fake. It's an official picture, but it's photoshopped. Look at the other "spectator" shots from that batch. What is seen on the middle screen is not what is shown on the small track map or the position chart on the sides.

Didn't stop them working on gt6 with the karts though.
I find that strange.

Seeing that gt6 will look just like gt5, why wouldn't they do some things ahead of time? The track designers probably have some spare time so why not put them to work?

i prefer a separation, those standard will ruin also the premium experience.. or at least a choice before you start the game, i'd choose for a gt mode with only premium, 200+ is more than enough for me.

Couldn't disagree more.

 

[Strittan]

i prefer a separation, those standard will ruin also the premium experience.. or at least a choice before you start the game, i'd choose for a gt mode with only premium, 200+ is more than enough for me.

Agreed. 👍

 

[paulpg87]

Couldn't disagree more.

In fact a choice should be the right thing: you want all tha cars and you can chose all cars, you want only premium you chose that. Online no choice, everyone with everything. We'll both be ok, you can play all the cars and i can delete all the crappy standards.

Standard cars sucks and do not offer the cockpit view.. if i'm forced to start the gt mode with a standard cars my game experience will be ruined cause i use only that cam. If i'm racing with a premium among standard my experience will be ruined cause it will sucks when i'll looking around and so on...

there is too much difference , with graphic, cockpit and damage it will be like playing two different games. Why not give the player the choice of select the experience?

Is like you're playing FIFA FOOTBALL on ps3 and half of the teams are from ps2, imagine a match between two different teams.. it ruins everything.

 

[Spagetti69]

^ No, Fowler would still be at Liverpool. Awsome.