Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Spagetti69]

I really hope gt gets rid off the brake steering assist. Worse than forza's if you ask me.

 

[danielwhite74]

Turn10 talk still legit. Since the shots released from them was 100% in-game photomode pictures (just a few with a "special" photomode where there's no driver inside).

Some GT5p promo shots are photoshoped (like some cockpit shots with motion blur). The GT5 photos we'll can judge when the game gets released.

A slight oxymoron, don't you think?

 

[CTznOfTime]

I really hope gt gets rid off the brake steering assist. Worse than forza's if you ask me.

??? Never heard of that? could you elaborate?

 

[regnar]

Just a curiosity, It's seems the possibility of Race modifications might return as found in this article:

http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2010/08/18/yamauchi_on_gt5/
"Japanese interviews usually end with the interviewee giving some general message to users. Not this time! Yamauchi closed off with a surprise. He revealed that GT5 will feature a revival of the Racing Modify menu, an option that was last featured in GT2. It won't work for all the game's cars, of course, but the staff is trying to realize it for the cars players will be expecting."


Race modification in GT1 & GT2 where in most cases a separate modeled car. As example the 98 Mustang Cobra became the Saleen/Allen Mustang a completely different modeled cars.

With the return, I see premiums getting this option. As indicated in the above article not all cars will get Race Modifications, but if 20%-30% who knows,

The question is how will the these cars play into the total number of Premiums?.

I can see three options for Race Modifications
1) Livery only
2) Body modifications similar to Tuned by GT
3) Real world race car version of the car you start with.
Note: All cars interiors removed & added roll cages

 

[eSZee]

From Amar's post we have known that there are going to be Premium and Standard cars. Some of you refused to believe that, and you lured yourself into thinking all 1000 cars will have cockpits.

And? You're telling me I'm supposed to believe everything I read on these forums?
Either way, back in 2006 or 2007, I think way before Amar, PD said we would have 2 tiers of cars. Rehashed ones an new ones. I just guess people either ignored it or didn't want to believe it. It still didn't mention that the ratio of premium to standard would be 1:4.

In the light of the fact that the car model is clearly of much lower quality than the one used during the race, it's not in-game at all. There's actually a loading time of a few seconds prior to entering Photo Mode, as the game renders the higher quality graphics of Photo Mode.



No, it doesn't. There is an option to view the car from the front during gameplay by holding L1, though.



Which pictures do you mean; those of Forza or Gran Turismo? Regardless, either way you're wrong.

So when it comes to GT5, both the photo and race models are the same just lowered quality but when it comes to forza, they are not the same because the race model is lower quality? Am I understanding this correctly?
Maybe someone should post a picture of the Jag again to show the photo and in-race differences.

 

[eSZee]

dooble

 

[CTznOfTime]

Photomode is still in-game regardless of what you wish to say regards the actual race model.

In those shots of GT5P, does it have a camera control on the right stick? I haven't played it.

GT5-P does not have an in-game camera control (you cannot look at your own car during a race, but you can look at other cars around you).
Exception: During a race, you can switch to Chase cam and then hit the button to look behind your, then you will be able to look at your car from the front. (i think?)

But regardless, the point is even during in-game race, the graphics of GT5-P is much better than FM3. FM3 graphics gets better and get a bump up ONLY when you switch to Photomode from in-game (is that during the race itself??? or do you have to switch to replay mode (just like GT5-P and the above shots?, i dont know i havent played FM3 extensively))

But regardless, the graphic standard in GT5-P is the SAME whether you are in-game racing, or in replay mode... there is no change.

As opposed to FM3, where in-game racing graphics is dumb down, and switched to overdrive and superb graphics when you hit photomode.

I guess my question again is: in FM3, when can you go to photomode?? during the race (pause it) or during a replay (pause it)... i am a bit confused here.

 

[danielwhite74]

So when it comes to GT5, both the photo and race models are the same just lowered quality but when it comes to forza, they are not the same because the race model is lower quality? Am I understanding this correctly?
Maybe someone should post a picture of the Jag again to show the photo and in-race differences.

Do the words "level of detail" mean anything to you? I've had to explain this at least four times now.

Gameplay and Photo Mode possess identical graphical quality, and the drop in polygons is down to a simple level of detail switch. In this Photo Mode screenshot, that you presumably took the former image from, the engine bay fills almost the entire screen, whereas in the latter screenshot this is not the case.

In Forza's screenshot of the Mini, not only is the car closer to the camera in the gameplay shot while also bearing a much lower polygon count, but radiator and interior aren't modelled whatsoever during gameplay. They are clearly two separate models, whereas with Gran Turismo 5 this is not the case.

I guess my question again is: in FM3, when can you go to photomode?? during the race (pause it) or during a replay (pause it)... i am a bit confused here.

You can enter Photo Mode during a race, although as I've mentioned in an earlier post:

There's actually a loading time of a few seconds prior to entering Photo Mode, as the game renders the higher quality graphics of Photo Mode.

 

[Pierced Lead]

Forza's cars still look ok to me.
If GT standards match Forza3 cars I'm happy.
Though I doubt they will.

Depends on which FM3 models, the photo-mode or in-game.



And the point of the comparison was that PD does NOT release touch-upped bullshots, unlike T10.

 

[alucard0712]

And the point of the comparison was that PD does NOT release touch-upped bullshots, unlike T10.

Because they just don't have any other quality models... (other than standards)

 

[NLxAROSA]

But regardless, the graphic standard in GT5-P is the SAME whether you are in-game racing, or in replay mode... there is no change.

That's not true. GT5P in-game is 60FPS, replays are at 30FPS and more FX (e.g. better lighting, more AA). The models are exactly the same though, as far as I know.

 

[danielwhite74]

Because they just don't have any other quality models... (other than standards)

They used promotional renders to market Gran Turismo PSP, but they never once passed them off as in-game screenshots as Turn 10 did. All the actual screenshots they released were entirely legitimate, whereas Turn 10 unashamedly lied that Photo Mode shots were gameplay captures.

At Turn 10, we don't bullshot, which means everything you see here [in these Photo Mode shots] is real-time taken from in-game gameplay ... The reason why you might have mistaken these screenshots as faked, touched-up, or embellished art is because Forza 3 is an exceedingly gorgeous game ... Everything was captured in-game with no faked CG whatsoever. At Turn 10, we don't do bullshots.

http://www.forza2xbox.com/en-us/pipass1.htm

That's not true. GT5P in-game is 60FPS, replays are at 30FPS and more FX (e.g. better lighting, more AA). The models are exactly the same though, as far as I know.

The lighting is exactly the same, as are the models and textures. The only difference whatsoever is the post-processing anti-aliasing, which is an accepted practice regarding screenshots nowadays. The actual graphics are identical.

 

[NLxAROSA]

The lighting is exactly the same, as are the models and textures. The only difference whatsoever is the post-processing anti-aliasing, which is an accepted practice regarding screenshots nowadays. The actual graphics are identical.

If there's a difference, then it's not identical. But I agree the difference is very, very small compared to the FM3 shots, and the difference is very hard to spot in stills. 👍 The difference in the FM3 shots is almost like if it's a different game from several years ago.

 

[Tornado]

I see little difference between what Turn 10 did with the Photomode models and what PD did with the Premium/Standard split.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

I see little difference between what Turn 10 did with the Photomode models and what PD did with the Premium/Standard split.

I do. As im a member on Forza.net I remember the photos prior to FM3 release and if you look at the video below that I made there is a massive difference in quality. I have always maintained that the cars on Forza look like plastic and are far from being photo realistic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPO4MfpbDMY

I can pretty much guarantee that even the standard cars will look much better on the GT5 replays.

 

[Killa Aaron]

Exquisitely detailed car models, with full 3D interior views.

The masters at Polyphony Digital pride themselves on the fidelty of their virtual recreations of every single car put into the game. They aim for perfection, and it shows.

There are approximately 200,000 polygons, or pieces of 3D mesh, that make up each car in Gran Turismo 5 Prologue. This is approximately 40 times higher than was possible on the PlayStation 2 hardware, bringing the visual quality of Gran Turismo to all new heights. The passion for and love of cars can be seen in the meticulous attention to detail paid in the car models, now including fully realized interior dash views with working gauges, animated driver animations, and stitching that looks so real you can almost smell the fine Italian leather.

http://us.gran-turismo.com/us/products/gt5p/car/

 

[Devedander]

Again I think you are confusing a lot of things :

1/ You are clearly confusing : bad marketing with overall bad project management, those are two different things, bad marketing is simply a tiny portion of overal game development management, you may even find those who say that marketing could actually be separated from project management (generally it is the publisher doing the marketing not the game developer)

More attempted redirection of blame, at least you are keeping it within PD now though which is a good sign.

Ultimately though, in a shop like PD KY IS the company. You can't blame "marketing" when KY is the guy on stage, making the presentations and answering the questions... not only is he the one who decides how things go, he is actually the one doing them in this respect. So sorry, no can't go excusing with that logic.

so if we assume kazunori yamauchi did the mistake of keeping secret this premium/standard issue oreven implying to gamers that all announced 1000 cars would be premium, thats poor marketing, nothing to do with poor game development management.

And we would have to assume that when KY says he is disapointed not all cars are up to premium quality, that he wanted to reach that goal and fell short. Sometimes falling short is excuseable... but when it takes 6 months per car and you started years ago... you had plenty of time to regroup and rethink... no longer excuseable so easily. That is the point.

2/ You are disappointed because you thought all 1000 cars would be premiums, only to find later on that only 20% of those cars would be premiums. So you decided to accuse yamauchi for badly managing his time, his team and his budget, and for failing to achieve 1000 premium cars, even though no other game developer acheieved this before. are you crazy ? (sorry for this word, but I just dont understatnd your reasoning).

Question who represented the game as being 1000 cars of GT5P or better quality? So then who's fault is it I was dissapointed? And who ultimately was in charge of the show this whole time?

You split it into seperate parts and then try to individually shift blame for each part when reality is, you step back and KY is the guy who is charge of it all and is the one publicly executing their marketing strategy. Just like he gets credit for the awesome direction GT is going in, he gets the blame for the fowl ups.

I call what you are saying : sentiments, feelings of disappointments leading to confusing things (confusing bad management with bad marketing) and I am being gentle, because others would accuse you of fanboyism.

I call what you are saying denial and I will come right out and say it's basically fanboyism.

You keep trying to redirect blame away from KY and PD with faulty logic. You keep making assumptions then stating them as fact to backup your point of view... you even make the classic fanboy call of "it's ok because it will be better in the next version".

That's all it is plain and simple. It's called making facts to support your point of view. You get called out, change things up a bit and try again with a slightly new tactic... problem is, it's the same flawed process every time.

I will repeat this for the eniem time :
there are only 200 premium cars in GT5 for a very simple reason : because of limited resources to polyphony digital (140 staff, 6 years of development time, 80 million $) thats what polyphony could have done with those resources.

And I will repeat this: Just because that's what happens, doesn't mean that's why it happened.

What funding you get, you use it and how you staff is all project management stuff. Every game (every business project) has the same issues. When you say limited funds and resources, that's assuming it was impossible to aquire more of either and there was no better way to manage what you had of both... and that is an assumption at best and not even a particularly likely one.

you think they could have done better with better management, this is for sure, and they will do better with GT6,

Again, a pleasant assumption to support your point of view. Your assumption is that the methods they use are simply in need of perfecting to get better... it's quite possible (and likely) that that's not it at all... it's quite possible GT is growing to the point KY (or any single person really) can't run it himself the way he wants to with the micromanagement style he likes.

Growing pains if you will.

See you see a situation, figure out a way it could be true and go with it. The flaw there is that unless it's the ONLY way, you are just dressing up opinion as fact.

guys, I will now accuse :

- polyphony digital with bad managing GT1, it took them 6 years of development time and they achieved only 178 cars (500 polygons each) with only 11 tracks, they are rubbish developers...

Considering this was literally from a non existent background (ie no previous GTs to build off of) on a fairly new and complex to program for console in a time when gaming was much more in it's infancy... hardly.

You can't just take isolated facts and use them on their own to justify tangential metrics. Same mistake you made with sales numbers vs management style.

- Turn 10 developers with bad managing forza 3, they outsourced their car modeling process, yet they only achieved 400 cars why not 1000 ? and with not so well modeled cockpits, why they didnt achieve the same level of cockpit quality like the premium of GT5 prologue ?!! they are bad managers because they could have done better and they promised better results...

They are bad managers because they outsourced and then didn't QA. That is absolutely on the shoulders of porject management. It's only slightly more excuseable due to the fact they aren't building off the foundation of the GT series PD has to work with and were on a different budget and timescale, but that certainly doesn't excuse it all together.

Wait a second ! this is hilarious ! I am discovering that all developers in our planet are bad managers ! because after all they all could have done better and they promised better results...

I could pick apart all the rest of your examples too, but ultimately what it comes down to is: Did any of them, knowingly strongly infer a certain quality of product including releasing a demo that was 100% high quality assets only to spring on the customer at the 11th hour that 80% of those assets were going to be noteably lower quality?

And were those companies small enough and tightly run enough to reasonably assume the president of the company not only knew what was going on at every turn but was probably making the call? Or where they big enough your "blame marketing" excuse might actually hold water?

And did they fall short of implied claims in such a way that they HAD to have know REALLY far back their expected goal was no where NEAR attainable?

Did any of them (obviuosly knowing this) decide not to rescale the goal of their projects or hire enough staff to meet the goal?

You can pick and choose areas to look at in an attempt to deflect blame, but ultimately, there is are no two ways around it.

Kid in a candy store sums it right up.

EDIT: I really do wish I had a time machine... I would take some of the users now and pit them against the assured fanboy comments of a year or two ago where KY would never let anything but the best come out, other games were laughable, you will see when GT lauches, it's gonna be this and that... and now the faces change a bit but it's the same camp saying "you are all idiots for not knowing this from the get go", "no one to blame but yourself for high expectations", "it's not that bad if you look at it this way and that way".

 

[SlipZtrEm]

And it seems some people are still unable to grasp the idea of future-proofing.
What we have right now are 200 future-proof models which won't need to be remodeled or updated or tweaked or optimized any further for future games in the series. This lessens the burden because now you have less cars to concentrate your focus on.
If we have 1000 very good models, which I presume you mean of sub-standard quality compared to premiums, then those 1000 would still have to be updated for future games.
So in the first scenario, PD have only 800 (whoop-dee-doo) models to worry about, while in the second, they have to concentrate on all 1000 models.

And updating a present model is not as simple as it seems. It's not like a magical progress bar where you have 70% done because the model was there beforehand and then you can up it to 100% just by tweaking. Remaking a present model can take just as much time if not more time than making a new one from scratch.

That being said, with most of the infrastructure of GT set up with GT5, I hope PD only focus their entire concentration on adding more content i.e. cars/tracks/racing disciplines and less time on extra features like weather/track editor for the next game

1000 models all to the same level of quality, even if below the current bar Premium has set, would present a more unified front to gamers and reviewers instead of the current "hey, for every 1 utterly amazing model you see... we have 4 that are at least six years old". Also, as a few people have pointed out during the course of this thread; the current Standard models are utterly useless as bases to create new models. Obviously this is a generalization, but a model consisting of, say, 100k polys, but still built as the Premiums are (as in, multi-piece, allowing body panels to be dislodged and/or removed), would be easier to update in the future.

I totally agree that GT5 could have been better with better management from kazunori yamauchi, but than again : so what ?

Ah, the default response to any negative aspect: "so what?" If there's a negative aspect of GT, it just isn't important!

But what is specific about GT5 ?!! Why all those unjustified critics ?!! even Forza 3 could have been better with better management, why I never heard anyone saying : forza 3 was badly managed they should have included 1000 cars not 400 !

Hm, did they have 6 years? 400 is still > 200, though.

even the legendary GT1 could have been better, it took polyphony also 6 years to develop (1992 - 1997) but the result was really worth it.

Serious question: where do people keep getting this '92 figure from? Pretty sure there wasn't a PSX development system at that point, as it was still a partner add-on proposal for the SNES. '92 might've been when Kaz first had the idea of GT, but I want to know when the team was actually established and they begun actual work on the game.

BUT I TELL YOU what is specific about GT5he also was obliged to announce GT5 too early because sony needed it, so people now are thinking GT5 is the new duke nukem forever with infinite delays (which is not true, officially GT5 was only delayed once from March 2010 to November 2010, it is just people assuming the game will be out soon after its announcement in 2006, so each year the game is not out some people interpret this as a delay which is not true)

To be fair, while we haven't been given a solid release date other than the March and November ones (and the printed material for late '09 that so many people forget about), we've had endless interviews from Kaz that usually state "by year's end" whichever year they've taken place in. Oh, and this:

https://www.gtplanet.net/we-can-release-gran-turismo-5-whenever-we-want/

...Over a year ago, and almost 18 months before it actually gets released. Kaz always tosses out his favourite number: 90%.

Now imagine this alternative scenario : GT5 was announced only at E3 2010, with only 200 premium cars and no talk at all about 1000 cars. would the same people criticize kazunori yamauchi for not including 1000 cars ?!!! would the same people criticize yamauchi for delaying the game ?!!! Hell NO because he never announced those things, because GT1 took also 6 years of development time with only 178 cars and 11 tracks, and no one blamed yamauchi at that time of bad management !

Again... did anybody know of GT in '92? I'd love to find more on this one.

And uh... if we heard nothing from PD until this year's E3, and they announced GT5 then after years of silence, with just the 200 Premiums and all the current features... yeah, I'd still be disappointed. I'd wonder what the past 6 years have been for. The Premium models are fantastic, absolutely, no question; but I'm not so much of a graphics-whore that I'd want them to sacrifice the car lineup size for them. On the other hand, I also don't want recycled GT4 cars. I just like a happy medium, which apparently is out of the question for PD. Instead we get all this talk of "PS4" cars and then 800 PS2 ones. 6 months is a stupidly long amount of man hours to dedicate to a single car. I understand the reasoning of course; it gives PD bragging rights because there really are no better models out there in racing games.

gamers and reviewers should really stop criticizing video games for what they should have been according to the talks of developers years before the ames are out, or according to some imaginative highly unrealistic expectations scenarios...video games must be criticized according to what they are, not to what they should have been if a perfect unrealistic imaginary geat management scenario with unlimited resources took place.

Heh, so we shouldn't take any of what developers say with a grain of salt? Really? They can say whatever they want about a game, make insane claims about their upcoming game, and then not deliver?

Okay. Now tell that to the members around here who still carry a chip on their shoulders for T10 doing that. Why is it only acceptable for Kaz to not deliver?

The Gran Turismo video game series has been one of the most popular over its lifetime, appealing to an audience ranging from casual gamers to fans of realistic PC racing sims. Because of the success of the Gran Turismo series, Guinness World Records awarded the series 7 world records in the Guinness World Records: Gamer's Edition 2008. These records include "Largest Number of cars in a Racing game", "Highest Selling PlayStation Game","Oldest Car in a Racing Game", and "Largest Instruction Guide for a Racing Game".
With a collective sales total of over 57 million units sold[1], it is the highest-selling PlayStation exclusive franchise of all time.

I just want to double-check: You're bringing up sales numbers and Guinness recognition as proof of good management? Really?

Man, I hope NFS ships with a 400 page instruction guide. That shows they have some first-rate management.

The fact is, GT5 is going to be the greatest console racing game ever made,

After Dev's done with the time machine, can I borrow it?

it has a wide variety of brilliant features, all polished to perfection.

Like how part of that $80 million budget went to securing the WRC name... and yet other than a few cars that have appeared in the series... the rallying in the game is utterly the same as every other previous GT? A random track generator with a token attempt to give the user an illusion of control? 800 cars that won't show any significant damage? An F1 car? Wanna race from the interior of your car? 1/5 chance you'll be in the right one.

GT is a jack of all trades, sure, but a master of none (other than car modelling [of a small portion of the total] and arguably physics). I love the series, I do, but it needs some focus, not more of the "hey, I like that, let's work on including more of... oooo, I like that, let's work on... oooo, I like that!" approach.

So what if there are standard cars? Most of them will be turned into Premium's for GT6 anyway, we're not stuck with them for the rest of the series.

That does nothing to change GT5. By this reasoning, I can lay out a claim that FM4 will have 1000 cars that are all better quality than GT5's premiums! Oh, how the fanboys will cry themselves to sleep...

It could be a lot worse guys.

Not a valid argument. Things can always be a lot worse. Should I be happy with a game with 2 cars and 1 track just because it could be worse, and there could just be one car?

If you don't like it that much, wait for GT6 when you have more premiums to play with.

Eh, I've at least learned to accept these short-comings to the point I'll be playing this game a lot, because who knows how many years it'll be before that game.

They used promotional renders to market Gran Turismo PSP, but they never once passed them off as in-game screenshots as Turn 10 did. All the actual screenshots they released were entirely legitimate, whereas Turn 10 unashamedly lied that Photo Mode shots were gameplay captures.

I read their little blurb... and they didn't lie. Those pictures were definitely taken in-game.



Photomodes allow companies to get away with that claim. They're using the game to get their images; they're not using post-processing to produce bullshots, or a more powerful rendering program, like games used to do back in the 90's. It's sly lawyer speak, sure, but it is technically not a lie.

And who started the Photomode trend...?

The lighting is exactly the same, as are the models and textures. The only difference whatsoever is the post-processing anti-aliasing, which is an accepted practice regarding screenshots nowadays. The actual graphics are identical.

Like Dave mentioned, there's two very different levels of quality for the Jag released recently. PD uses different LOD's during actual racing and then all other times we're looking at the cars. I don't have much of an issue with that though; it's sorta par for the course at this point.

Exquisitely detailed car models, with full 3D interior views.

The masters at Polyphony Digital pride themselves on the fidelty of their virtual recreations of every single car put into the game. They aim for perfection, and it shows.

There are approximately 200,000 polygons, or pieces of 3D mesh, that make up each car in Gran Turismo 5 Prologue. This is approximately 40 times higher than was possible on the PlayStation 2 hardware, bringing the visual quality of Gran Turismo to all new heights. The passion for and love of cars can be seen in the meticulous attention to detail paid in the car models, now including fully realized interior dash views with working gauges, animated driver animations, and stitching that looks so real you can almost smell the fine Italian leather.

http://us.gran-turismo.com/us/products/gt5p/car/

Uh... okay?

 

[DestinyDanny]

A moderator really needs to close this thread now, this isnt a discussion anymore it's a freaking riot!

 

[analog]

A moderator really needs to close this thread now, this isnt a discussion anymore it's a freaking riot!

Riot? Really? Looks like a decent discussion to me based on arguments and counterarguments, not personal attacks.
Funny that this thread is always the one frequently requested to be closed, wonder why that is?

 

[KilzoneStrife]

Riot? Really? Looks like a decent discussion to me based on arguments and counterarguments, not personal attacks.
Funny that this thread is always the one frequently requested to be closed, wonder why that is?

I second this,nothing wrong with this thread.if its closed,a new one will pop up,if not now,it will when GT5 launches

 

[Dravonic]

So let me get this straight GT5 has been poorly managed because we don't have 1000 premium cars.

lolwut?

No, I brought up the poor management comment because I feel the content the game has (at least the content divulged) doesn't justify a 6 years development time. Not only because of standard cars, but everything in general.

Don't get me wrong. The game is huge, I'm not saying it isn't. I'm saying it took too damn long to get done and I don't see a reason why. It's huge, but not "it takes 6 years to make" huge.

From Amar's post we have known that there are going to be Premium and Standard cars. Some of you refused to believe that, and you lured yourself into thinking all 1000 cars will have cockpits.

I see...

You're trying to say PD are not to blame for hiding the standard cars for so long, because a GTP member, with no official connections to PD in any way, hinted there would be standard cars?

 

[Tornado]

I do. As im a member on Forza.net I remember the photos prior to FM3 release and if you look at the video below that I made there is a massive difference in quality. I have always maintained that the cars on Forza look like plastic and are far from being photo realistic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPO4MfpbDMY

I can pretty much guarantee that even the standard cars will look much better on the GT5 replays.

I wasn't talking about quality. I was talking about the way they were hyped up.

 

[regnar]

Just a curiosity, It's seems the possibility of Race modifications might return as found in this article:
http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2010/08/18/yamauchi_on_gt5/

Race modification in GT1 & GT2 where in most cases a separate modeled car. As example the 98 Mustang Cobra became the Saleen/Allen Mustang a completely different modeled cars.

With the return, I see premiums getting this option. As indicated in the above article not all cars will get Race Modifications, but if 20%-30% who knows,

The question is how will the these cars play into the total number of Premiums?.

 

[Tornado]

I always thought that PD put far more hyperbole into how much work was needed for racing modifications than was actually true, probably to shy away complaints when they went away in GT3. It is true that (nearly) all of the cars needed new textures, but a large majority of the racing modifications were either the stock model with a new texture on it (as was the case with many of the Skylines), or a slightly-modified-from-stock model with a new texture on it (like in the Lotus Elise RMs).

 

[Devedander]

I always thought that PD put far more hyperbole into how much work was needed for racing modifications than was actually true, probably to shy away complaints when they went away in GT3. It is true that (nearly) all of the cars needed new textures, but a large majority of the racing modifications were either the stock model with a new texture on it (as was the case with many of the Skylines), or a slightly-modified-from-stock model with a new texture on it (like in the Lotus Elise RMs).

It's certainly not apples to apples, but we got some decent tuning in Tokyo Extreme Racer and Forza 1... I am not an insider or anything, but I just don't see how it could be THAT hard to do at least cursory modifications.

I do. As im a member on Forza.net I remember the photos prior to FM3 release and if you look at the video below that I made there is a massive difference in quality. I have always maintained that the cars on Forza look like plastic and are far from being photo realistic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPO4MfpbDMY

I can pretty much guarantee that even the standard cars will look much better on the GT5 replays.

I have to ask, why make an idiots of F3 video... idiots exist in every online racing game griefing people... I would be VERY surprised if the same isn't true in GT5.

 

[Dravonic]

I have to ask, why make an idiots of F3 video... idiots exist in every online racing game griefing people... I would be VERY surprised if the same isn't true in GT5.

Because he happens to play FM3? Because he was griefed by them? Because he wants to?

Don't really see why he needs a reason to do it other than his will to do it.

 

[Devedander]

Because he happens to play FM3? Because he was griefed by them? Because he wants to?

Don't really see why he needs a reason to do it other than his will to do it.

OIC I thought it was more like a "online Racing on Forza 3 is broken" kind of thing.

 

[scout_scatter]

200 cars with extremely detailed cockpit view is more than enough for me

The rest is just a bonus.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

I find it rather amusing just how much my opinion differs to those on this thread. When you consider inbetween GT4 & 5 we have seen GT HD, GT5P, GT PSP and then I look at all the features GT5 has combined with some of the gloriously detailed tracks i.e Rome, Madrid, im actually amazed PD have managed to fit in so much content within 6yrs.

I will add that the reason I posted the forza video is because of two reasons. Firstly the replay shows how plastic the cars look and in my opinion the standard car replays will be so much better. The second reason is yes you will always find idiots but its how they are dealt with is more important. Now in my opinion GT5P was a step in the right direction although not perfect. What kind of penalty system PD implement is far more important to the gameplay of GT5 than how pretty the cars look. My video illustrates this perfectly but sadly the threads on this forum are always discussing trivialities rather than what is really important. This is probably due to the lack of online experience that many on here have.