Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[supersquirrel]

the thing is standard cars cant really be considered gt4 cars after updates to physics and textures.

 

[Revelation1115]

the thing is standard cars cant really be considered gt4 cars after updates to physics and textures.

yeah, but you get the idea.. no cockpit views, details subpar compared to premium, etc.

 

[Organ-Donor]

It's working quite well also... outside of GTP I have yet to come across a gamer forum post where even one person has the details right on standard cars... usually I hear things close to a a 50/50 split and that standards will look just as good as premiums jut not have cockpits etc.

We'll you better get going and put on your forum police outfit and head over to drill it into everyone's heads.

 

[TakeshiSkunk]

Maybe I'm really weird, but I kind of like the idea of not all cars being premium on some level. It'll make the premiums that much more special, and finding out one of your favorite cars got a premium model will be very cool.

I mean obviously I would prefer everything to be premium, don't get me wrong. I just don't think it's THAT horrible since the standards aren't ugly by any means. Not having a cockpit will mean I don't have to feel guilty about wanting to use bumpercam, which I think a lot of people find noticeably easier to drive in

 

[yogaflame]

After seeing the awesome weather effect and Laguna seca, I can finally forget that disappointment of only having 200 cars with cockpit view because of this spectacular weather effect and Ps4 quality visuals. I rather have this effects and graphics than all cars with cockpit view. And of course my favorite course the classic Laguna Seca and its world famous corkscrew. Wow... Hopefully they can really copy the feeling on driving down the corkscrew especially in 3D mode

 

[Griffith500]

OK. So to add to my list of concerns about Standards:

Paint (wheels and body).

On top of:
Cockpits, customisation, race mods and sound.

 

[DestinyDanny]

After seeing the awesome weather effect and Laguna seca, I can finally forget that disappointment of only having 200 cars with cockpit view because of this spectacular weather effect and Ps4 quality visuals. I rather have this effects and graphics than all cars with cockpit view. And of course my favorite course the classic Laguna Seca and its world famous corkscrew. Wow... Hopefully they can really copy the feeling on driving down the corkscrew especially in 3D mode

Hmm talking of 3D there, i wonder what that will be like with all these weather effects!

 

[Killinator]

OK. So to add to my list of concerns about Standards:

Paint (wheels and body).

On top of:
Cockpits, customisation, race mods and sound.

I'm fearing some of those options in GT Auto may well be grayed out when you pull up to the garage in a standard

 

[freshseth83]

The box says you can upgrade customize and race 1000 cars. What level of customization will the standards not receive? You think there's a separate mode of tuning and such for standard cars? Or will the options such as paint and race modification just be 'darkened' out and make that famous 'beep-beep' sound when you can't do something?

 

[CoolColJ]

Standards won't have wipers, according to PD's site, so how will rain work? Probably won't matter, since they have no cockpits

 

[VXR]

You could customize cars in GT4 with the wing and wheel options. That would fit the description of 1000 customizable cars.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

The box says you can upgrade customize and race 1000 cars. What level of customization will the standards not receive? You think there's a separate mode of tuning and such for standard cars? Or will the options such as paint and race modification just be 'darkened' out and make that famous 'beep-beep' sound when you can't do something?

I'm thinking that might be the case, especially with the paint option for Standards. Just because of how they're modeled, colour options that aren't already available would be hard to add. It's entirely possible that won't be the case though, it's just unlikely. Wheel painting should probably be available across tiers though, since it's a fair bit easier.

Interesting that the one menu option has bumpers, wings, and side skirts available. Conceivably, sideskirts would be an easy modification for Standards, since it could just be "added" to the existing shape.

I just thought about multi-coloured models, like the Ford GT. Think we'll be able to keep the stripes?

 

[Tornado]

you said they havent shown the standard cars in any of the big stages, well they dont have to because gt4 is ALL standard cars

Which would be great if we were talking about GT4. We aren't. We are talking about GT5. A game which has so far shown dozens of features not in GT4 with which we have no clue how the Standard cars will work.

 

[freshseth83]

See, this was what I was getting at the whole time. I don't see how it'd be hard for PD to make it so the standards could get some of these customization upgrades. Paint? Wheel paint should be simple. If there were wings on cars in GT4, side skirts, bumpers i dont think would be too much of a problem. Maybe not race upgrade but anything is possible it seems.

 

[Killinator]

See, this was what I was getting at the whole time. I don't see how it'd be hard for PD to make it so the standards could get some of these customization upgrades. Paint? Wheel paint should be simple. If there were wings on cars in GT4, side skirts, bumpers i dont think would be too much of a problem. Maybe not race upgrade but anything is possible it seems.

Sideskirts and bumper splitters maybe, becasue they're adding parts on, but its hard tell at the moment if you'll be able to replace bumpers due to(I'm open to correction) the bodies of standards being modeled in one piece and not several pieces like the premiums.

 

[shirakawaa]

Because of the way standard cars are textured, I'm not sure we'll be able to easily change paint on them.

 

[Killinator]

Because of the way standard cars are textured, I'm not sure we'll be able to easily change paint on them.

True, the way most shutlines and some vents are just textures would make it quite difficult, if at all possible

 

[SlipZtrEm]

See, this was what I was getting at the whole time. I don't see how it'd be hard for PD to make it so the standards could get some of these customization upgrades. Paint? Wheel paint should be simple. If there were wings on cars in GT4, side skirts, bumpers i dont think would be too much of a problem. Maybe not race upgrade but anything is possible it seems.

Nobody's really argued that it's hard... just incredibly time-consuming. I'm imagining parts like bumpers and skirts would need to be made for each individual car, unlike the generic wings of GT4. That'd take a lot of time for 500-600 cars, even counting the padding of duplicates PD's known for (and obviously excluding the cars that are already race-modded, or ones that would never need it, like the Model T). Body paint options will be an utter pain; because Standards use textured shading to simulate depth, it isn't as easy as just changing the colours of a body part the way it's possible with a Premium. It would involve a completely thorough edit of the Standard's texture, making sure it doesn't paint over important details in the skin.

Race mod might be easier than the body kit pieces, really. But it still represents some questionable time management; why spend more time on Standards instead of rolling more time into Premiums, the tier that has a longer shelf-life? It'd have some short term benefits, but at the extent of GT6 suffering with a continued reliance on PS2 models. Like Killinator mentioned too, individual body parts would have to be placed over top of current bodies due to the one-piece makeup.

Something tells me the demo won't have any Standards for people to play with to find the answers to all this, so I guess we'll just have to wait until November 2nd to see how many of those options are unavailable :-/.

 

[shirakawaa]

True, the way most shutlines and some vents are just textures would make it quite difficult, if at all possible

Not only that; highlights and shadows are mostly textured on standard cars, you can't easily perform a palette change to any color, because they would look wrong.

 

[yogaflame]

Hmm talking of 3D there, i wonder what that will be like with all these weather effects!

Could be amazing

 

[freshseth83]

Do we know for sure those standards are modeled the way you guys say? Or are you just thinking this because that's how they were from GT4? I'm not arguing, but do we have proof in words from PD and Kaz that the standards were not redone at all and are just ports? Because I could have sworn I saw and read differently. I could be wrong, but why wouldn't he? it's been 5-6(?) years? Do you think 200 cars give or take, would take that long?

 

[shirakawaa]

Personally I think that standards cars that have a very similar premium version will get an upgrade, but maybe it's just me. Many standard cars will have to retain their GT4 3d model, though.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Do we know for sure those standards are modeled the way you guys say? Or are you just thinking this because that's how they were from GT4? I'm not arguing, but do we have proof in words from PD and Kaz that the standards were not redone at all and are just ports? Because I could have sworn I saw and read differently. I could be wrong, but why wouldn't he? it's been 5-6(?) years? Do you think 200 cars give or take, would take that long?

Wait... seriously? You are actually asking this?

I know you've been in this thread for long enough.

 

[Tornado]

Because of the way standard cars are textured, I'm not sure we'll be able to easily change paint on them.

Why not? With the exception of the cars with racing liveries (which are likely hard-coded textures), all of the cars in GT4 (and GT3, and GT2, and GT1) probably use alpha blending to change the colors of the cars rather than making a whole new texture (and by "probably," I mean that there is no way in hell that they didn't make the cars this way, but I don't really know). Doing it that way rather than a whole separate texture is 1993-era stuff.

 

[freshseth83]

Wait... seriously? You are actually asking this?

I know you've been in this thread for long enough.

It's a question, can I not ask it? Or are you going to blast my post, again?

Show me where it says GT4 cars are the same as Standards. I read, they were brought over, not "ported". I read they were brought up to new standards, not "they look the exact same". So what I read from Kaz and PD is more proof than what guys in a forum say. Do you not agree?

I didn't ask how you THINK they model the standards, I asked are you sure that's how they are modeled. Are you sure there's no way PD can make it so they can be painted, upgrades etc.

Don't reply if you got something smart to say. I want a real answer. If it's the case that you're right great, but just because you have pictures of 'shutlines' and nonsense like that, it doesn't mean much to me especially from an old trailer. Anyone can see a video and base an assessment off of that.

 

[Tornado]

So what I read from Kaz and PD is more proof than what guys in a forum say. Do you not agree?

Which is convenient, because PD haven't said anything about the standards since they announced them.

I didn't ask how you THINK they model the standards, I asked are you sure that's how they are modeled.

Fact: If the cars were modeled as a collection of parts, there would be no logical reason to have two tiers of damage.

Are you sure there's no way PD can make it so they can be painted, upgrades etc.

There is no particular reason that they couldn't have painted or upgraded in GT4, so there is no reason to assume that they couldn't do the same for GT5. Whether they will is the better question.

If it's the case that you're right great, but just because you have pictures of 'shutlines' and nonsense like that, it doesn't mean much to me especially from an old trailer. Anyone can see a video and base an assessment off of that.

Are you kidding me? It was only 3 months ago.

 

[freshseth83]

Which is convenient, because PD haven't said anything about the standards since they announced them.


Fact: If the cars were modeled as a collection of parts, there would be no logical reason to have two tiers of damage.


There is no particular reason that they couldn't have painted or upgraded in GT4, so there is no reason to assume that they couldn't do the same for GT5. Whether they will is the better question.


Are you kidding me? It was only 3 months ago.

So you think that trailer was MADE 3 months ago? I doubt it. It was shown 3 months ago at E3, but that doesn't mean it was made 3 months ago, so it could be older. We saw how many trailers of Standard cars? And today we saw another trailer with two standard cars on a track with snow, be it ice ring or not, those cars looked good, even if they weren't premiums. I'm just someone who thinks PD is better than just to leave Standard cars alone and port them over without doing anything to improve their looks. By the way that statement of OLD trailer is relative to the game shows. Today with TGS here, there is NEW trailers, NEW gameplay footage.

 

[Tornado]

So you think that trailer was MADE 3 months ago? I doubt it.

We've been over this exact point of contention a million times in this thread, but I'll just cut to the chase:
What that statement directly implies, whether you intended it to or not, is that PD intentionally made what was obviously going to be the most divisive thing about the game (the Standard cars) look worse then they would be in the final game. And then they proceeded to show nothing else about them over the course of the next three months (and possibly up to the game's release) to show these supposed improvements made from whenever the video was made (assuming the video was made long before E3), so the negativity towards the trailer would simply fester more and more. Why exactly would PD do something so unbelievably stupid?

I'm just someone who thinks PD is better than just to leave Standard cars alone and port them over without doing anything to improve their looks.

We already know that they have improved the textures for at least one of the cars in the Standard video.

 

[freshseth83]

We've been over this exact point a million times in this thread, but I'll just cut to the chase.
What that statement directly implies, whether you intended it to or not, is that PD intentionally made what was obviously going to be the most divisive thing about the game (the Standard cars) look worse then they would be in the final game.


We already know that they have improved the textures for at least one of the cars in the Standard video.

I don't care how many times the point has been brought up and gone over, the FACT is that's all people's opinions. When has Kaz brought all his cards out at once? Never. That's a fact. In fact, TGS is showing us more and more and more than weve seen. But here we are in this thread and instead of facts you have opinions. I have mine as well, but this thread's title is your THOUGHTS. So these are my thoughts. And my thoughts go along with what PD and Kaz have done in the past and are doing now, Not showing off all their stuff in the first go. You get what I mean? Just because we seen a couple vids of standard cars people jump to the conclusion that's it? I'm not so easily written off.

 

[regnar]

@freshseth83
Standards are the original 3d models created for GT4 & the PSP, some refer to them as assets. They are at a much lower polygon count, around 4000 & their exterior is modeled as a whole with very little interior detail. The shut lines that you see as separations of panels are illusion created by the textures used. Premiums have a much higher polygon count from 200,000 to 500,000, the car model has most it's parts modeled separability interior & exterior & under the body panels. It's was far more manageable for PD to reuse the standards to save time. There is a little hope is that the texture quality might be improved, but not expecting the models themselves to be changed.