Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Tornado]

So these are my thoughts. And my thoughts go along with what PD and Kaz have done in the past and are doing now, Not showing off all their stuff in the first go. You get what I mean? Just because we seen a couple vids of standard cars people jump to the conclusion that's it? I'm not so easily written off.

Fair enough. So explain to me your thoughts as to why PD would intentionally make the game look worse than it supposedly will be, and furthermore proceed to say nothing about any supposed improvements in the months following the announcement.


And, by the way, I checked: as stated by PD, we've known that the Standard cars would be based on the GT4 models since Gamescom of 2009, long before the Standard Cars Trailer even existed.

 

[WallRunner]

Didn't Kaz say in one interview the Standard cars aren't actually the GT4 models, but rather the higher-res versions that were trimmed down for GT4? As far as I know, it's pretty common practice to model a car better than you need it and trim down, instead of underdoing a car and upscaling it.

From,
Chris.

 

[Tornado]

Didn't Kaz say in one interview the Standard cars aren't actually the GT4 models, but rather the higher-res versions that were trimmed down for GT4?

I've heard that several times (Famine even mentioned it once), but I've never seen a source for it.

In any case, even a better-then-GT4 GT4 model would still be modeled as one mesh rather than out of several put together (which still doesn't technically preclude customization, but it wouldn't make sense to do it).

 

[Revelation1115]

Which would be great if we were talking about GT4. We aren't. We are talking about GT5. A game which has so far shown dozens of features not in GT4 with which we have no clue how the Standard cars will work.

yeah but the guy i was responding to was asking how the standard cars look like, not how they work

 

[WallRunner]

I've heard that several times (Famine even mentioned it once), but I've never seen a source for it.

In any case, even a better-then-GT4 GT4 model would still be modeled as one mesh rather than out of several put together (which still doesn't technically preclude customization, but it wouldn't make sense to do it).

Yeah, I personally don't think Standard models will get the Race Mods or Aftermarket customization rather than what they got in GT4, but colors changing is probably available. From shots I've seen of the standard cars, they aren't nearly as reliant on shading and highlight layers as they used to be, some even being modeled where on the previous version it was drawn on.

I was mainly trying to clear up some things because I'm pretty certain the models aren't the exact ones used in GT4, rather the parents of those models which is why they don't look too bad when placed alongside premium cars.

From,
Chris.

 

[yogaflame]

So for standard cars there will be no wiper animation when it rains or snow. So how can they deal with snow and rain when in standard mode you are in first person view? No wipers? I think it will be a disadvantage for premium since standard cars will not be distracted by rain and wiper movement

 

[Revelation1115]

So for standard cars there will be no wiper animation when it rains or snow. So how can they deal with snow and rain when in standard mode you are in first person view? No wipers? I think it will be a disadvantage for premium since standard cars will not be distracted by rain and wiper movement

i think for standard cars, the rain/snow will just be coming towards the camera/tv screen (since you can play this game in 3D) with the bumper view..

 

[yogaflame]

i think for standard cars, the rain/snow will just be coming towards the camera/tv screen (since you can play this game in 3D) with the bumper view..

So it they will not be distracted that much than cars with wipers and windshield effect? i think it will be standard cars advantage

 

[Revelation1115]

So it they will not be distracted that much than cars with wipers and windshield effect? i think it will be standard cars advantage

yeah but i think its all opinion whether or not its an advantage, to me its 50/50.. its an advantage because of course no wiper motions, but disadvantage because there is no wiper motions (which hinders the effects of the dynamic weather implemented in the game)..

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Yeah, I personally don't think Standard models will get the Race Mods or Aftermarket customization rather than what they got in GT4, but colors changing is probably available. From shots I've seen of the standard cars, they aren't nearly as reliant on shading and highlight layers as they used to be, some even being modeled where on the previous version it was drawn on.

I'm curious; where have we seen an example of what you mention at the end there?

I was mainly trying to clear up some things because I'm pretty certain the models aren't the exact ones used in GT4, rather the parents of those models which is why they don't look too bad when placed alongside premium cars.

From,
Chris.

They're near-as-dammit the same from most comparisons that have taken place in this thread, showing the same rough poly edges and odd details. They probably are the full-fat stationary Photomode GT4 models, which did have some noticeably higher textures and smoother curves, but other than the one car Toronado alluded to (that Standard C3 Vette), we haven't seen any hints of textures being upgraded for GT5 duty.

Seth - I actually noticed those Standards on the Ice Arena earlier today too. It seems that that snippet is from the PSP intro though :-/.

The reason for my response is because we've literally had this exact circular debate countless times in this thread, and I know you've been a part of it before. Nothing has changed. Anybody with a modicum of modeling knowledge can see the differences between Standards and Premiums (and the resultant similarities between GT4 and Standards). You saying you don't care about "shutlines" is the equivalent of shoving fingers in your ears and muttering "lalalala" over and over again; the shutlines are the easiest giveaway that the models are one-piece, and just can't be handled in the same way as Premiums. Not saying they're trash, they're still good for what they are, but what they are isn't current generation.

As for the "brought up to new standards" comment on the site; that is technically true from a marketing perspective, just like the "1000 cars customizable" thing. The Standards will take advantage of GT5's improved lighting, and physics... so they are brought up to *a* new standard .

Toronado - Ah, I never thought about that approach to colour. It'd be interesting to find out for sure... it'd be pretty disappointing that 80% of the cars in the game won't have access to a good chunk of GT Auto's features...

 

[WallRunner]

I'm curious; where have we seen an example of what you mention at the end there?

I can't recall an exact post or picture, but IIRC, the Yellow and White Racing Corvette (C5R?) in the standards video had modeled air ducts/vents on the side rather than the shading. Other pictures have had a massive clean up and toned down look to the shading. As someone who does texture work on 3D models and runs a website dedicated to said textures, I can tell they've put a lot of effort into making these look good.

They're near-as-dammit the same from most comparisons that have taken place in this thread, showing the same rough poly edges and odd details. They probably are the full-fat stationary Photomode GT4 models, which did have some noticeably higher textures and smoother curves, but other than the one car Toronado alluded to (that Standard C3 Vette), we haven't seen any hints of textures being upgraded for GT5 duty.

I wouldn't say the Photomode models, I personally think they're using the parent models, which would be of the highest polygon count, though they obviously aren't perfect, from the videos I've seen they are much improved.
When you get into 3D design, it's actually best to model object with a higher level of detail than you actually need, and chopping it down to what you need, than to build it to minimum specifications and obliterating all future uses unless you want to upscale the cars, which could even require a rebuild of the entire model depending on how it was done.

Look at it like this (I apologize for the crummy analogy but it's all I've got and it's 2:30 AM as of this writing): It's better to buy cheese in an amount more than you would need, so that if bread in the future was made larger, you could still fill the sandwich without lacking any cheese.
If you bought just enough to cover the bread and bread size doubles, you'll be left with a half covered sandwich.
If you want a full covered sandwich, you'd have to go to the store and buy more cheese, and if you made the same mistake as your first slice, you'd have to go again (where do people buy cheese by the slice? beats me but let's roll with it), eventually you'll have your cheese covered sandwich, but it would taste terrible because the cheese would have gotten warm, stale and gone bad, and your sandwich would look worse than a sandwich with enough or an overflow of cheese.

One area they have improved on with the standard cars is reflections, when they get those dialed in, the cars don't looks bad and fit with the amazing graphics of the rest of the game.

From,
Chris.
I pledge to never try to make an analogy ever again.

 

[Revelation1115]

is it just me or this thread just goes in circles arguing about the same things?

 

[WallRunner]

is it just me or this thread just goes in circles arguing about the same things?

That's what happens with Anything vs. Anything, you'll always have someone with the opposite viewpoint defending their opinion. Best you can do is state your point clearly and move on.

From,
Chris.

 

[freshseth83]

I base my opinions on how GT4 cars were modeled to begin with. Maybe in GT4 they didn't look so hot (in today's standards) but back then they were all the rage, and they still hold their own IMO. I see photo mode shots of the cars and they look almost as good as cars of this generation's systems. I'm one to think that PD REDID the cars. Maybe not to the accurate precision of the Premiums in terms of body modeling each and every part for panel separation, but redid them in PS3 fashion. Whatever that may be. I've read that from sites and magazines that say this is what he did. Although from videos we don't get the feeling it's the case. But like Slip said, if those cars we see in videos are taken from other games, like GTPSP with the ice ring cars, who's to say that so far were just getting little trailers of these cars with some updated tracks? I for one don't think trailers = gameplay. For better or worse. I just think we'll have to wait and see and hope something is shown before it hits the shelves.

 

[paulpg87]

So it they will not be distracted that much than cars with wipers and windshield effect? i think it will be standard cars advantage

there are not wipers and windshield effect on standard cars, just the classic bumper view, so racing with or without the rain visually is the same thing. while in premium with inside view the effects it's amazing.. that another "why" standard cars are crap.

 

[freshseth83]

Well, I don't use cockpit view so to me, its fine. Rain isn't hard to see through in open wheeled cars, but foggy windshields ruin your sight!

 

[bongskag]

I just hope PD reads this thread and keeps all us fans happy ..

this was taken from their site "*Note that windshield wipers will only operate on premium model cars."

WTF ? so it starts to rain and you cant see out ? lol , that couldn't have been that hard to program in surely ?!

 

[MadduckUK]

I just hope PD reads this thread and keeps all us fans happy ..

this was taken from their site "*Note that windshield wipers will only operate on premium model cars."

WTF ? so it starts to rain and you cant see out ? lol , that couldn't have been that hard to program in surely ?!

none of the standard car views are placed where windscreen wipers would be needed to see. it is only the premium cockpit view where this is needed.

 

[Ryan81]

It's really very simple.

Since standard cars won't have cockpit view, the wipers will not be seen/needed.

If you play PGR4 and don't use cockpit view while raining but instead use bonnet cam, the rain droplets will simply hit the bonnet and slide off, etc.

If you use chase cam, likewise you will not see the wipers.

 

[paulpg87]

I just hope PD reads this thread and keeps all us fans happy ..

this was taken from their site "*Note that windshield wipers will only operate on premium model cars."

WTF ? so it starts to rain and you cant see out ? lol , that couldn't have been that hard to program in surely ?!

it it start rain happens nothing cause there is no cockpit view in standard cars, so using your bumper view it will be the same... and this is a huge difference in overall gameplay experience.

 

[Nielsen]

Do you guys think standars cars will be offered as prize cars in GT5? I think there are too few premium cars in the game to have enough prize cars in that category.

 

[MrDrWatson]

I just hope that there is some way of knowing if a car is premium or standard before we purchase it, so that when I get into a race I won't be disappointed by not finding a cockpit view. I like to drive in cockpit view but it's no deal breaker to use the bumper cam or hood cam.

 

[Organ-Donor]

I just hope that there is some way of knowing if a car is premium or standard before we purchase it, so that when I get into a race I won't be disappointed by not finding a cockpit view. I like to drive in cockpit view but it's no deal breaker to use the bumper cam or hood cam.

More than likely it will say standard/premium under the car model.

 

[Gejost]

I just hope that there is some way of knowing if a car is premium or standard before we purchase it, so that when I get into a race I won't be disappointed by not finding a cockpit view. I like to drive in cockpit view but it's no deal breaker to use the bumper cam or hood cam.

Unfortunatly there is no hood cam, it's a roof cam.

 

[Griffith500]

Unfortunatly there is no hood cam, it's a roof cam.

I think we've seen evidence of a bonnet view from GamesCom. The Standards might be stuck with the old roof cam, though.


As for rain effects, most of it is screen-space anyway, so there's no reason that a similar droplet-based effect could be used in other views - including for the Standards. This has been done in other games - someone even just mentioned PGR4... They could even throw in a wiper effect, just for us.

It is (also) my opinion that changing the colour of the Standards might be possible; the legato colour changes in GT3's menus are a clue to this possibility. It wouldn't look the same if it were simply blending different coloured textures (details would darken). I'm not saying this means it will be in GT5, but it's certainly possible, especially given the Standards seem to have the correct colours in GT5 already.

Wheels, except stock wheels on Standards, possibly, should be fine, too.

 

[Wools]

After being against the Standard cars since E3, the TGS video of the Toyota going around the GT4 track has somewhat put my mind to ease.

The biggest difference between the 2 versions will now be no interior camera. Other than that, I'm happy with the visual appearance of the cars.

 

[VXR]

I just hope that there is some way of knowing if a car is premium or standard before we purchase it, so that when I get into a race I won't be disappointed by not finding a cockpit view. I like to drive in cockpit view but it's no deal breaker to use the bumper cam or hood cam.

It should be very easy to tell a standard car from a premium in the dealership without having to have it written under a car.

 

[steve30x]

After being against the Standard cars since E3, the TGS video of the Toyota going around the GT4 track has somewhat put my mind to ease.

The biggest difference between the 2 versions will now be no interior camera. Other than that, I'm happy with the visual appearance of the cars.

where did you see that video?

 

[SniperSight]

Im wondering.... Are any of the standard cars gonna be new cars or will they all have been in previous GTs??
I'd rather have the r15/R15 plus/RS5/B7 RS4 in as a standard than not at all, doesnt seem likely they'll be premiums at this stage.

 

[analog]

Im wondering.... Are any of the standard cars gonna be new cars or will they all have been in previous GTs??
I'd rather have the r15/R15 plus/RS5/B7 RS4 in as a standard than not at all, doesnt seem likely they'll be premiums at this stage.

All Standard cars are cars from previous GT-games ( GT4 and GT-PSP ), any new additions ( and some cars which were previously featured before ) are Premium.
There are no new Standard cars.