Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[SlipZtrEm]

Ok. But cockpit view is the same view as bumper except for the addition of the dash, wheel, etc.

It's not though. It's similar, but the cockpit isn't simply an overlay while the camera stays in the same exact spot. The videos online prove that, and so does playing Prologue.

In GT5P, the GT-R Prototype had blacked out windows, and was not that obvious, unless you were looking for it.

As far as the standard headlights, it has been said that the standards only have 1 headlight setting, but I don't recall it saying that it will only have low beam lights. Their 1 default setting could be high beam lights.

As has been covered literally dozens of times, the GT-R Proto is not a good example, since it wasn't a Standard car. It was built to the same multi-piece, few hundred-thousand poly level of detail as Premiums. The reason the windows were black was because the Prototype (the show car) had no interior either.

...

We still don't know for sure if the two tiers will be separated in all races. You can make arguments for or against it, really. Having them together means less chances of duplicate competitors in the AI field. On the other hand, besides the quality difference of the two, Standards miss out on a level of headlight illumination as mentioned, they don't offer the same physical damage (and we still don't know if, say, Premiums leave debris on the road), and it's still incredibly likely (though again, not confirmed yet) that Standards don't have the same level of customization. Oh, and at least in the TGS build, Standards all will get a potential advantage in the rain or snow since the effects do nothing to hurt visibility in any view other than cockpit, which is unavailable to them.

 

[buickgnx88]

Just for clarification, at http://us.gran-turismo.com/us/news/d5247.html

*Standard cars do not support vehicle interior camera views.

Also

In Gran Turismo 5, cars have fully-functioning headlights. Premium cars even feature both low and high beams for a variety of racing conditions.
Premium cars: Headlights with high beams and low beams
Standard cars: Standard lights only

 

[AleksandarSRB]

So you think if I buy standard Toyota GT one race car I can race against Peugeot 908 and Audi R10(premium's)!!! This is stupid... Of course that you can race standard car against premium, why not...

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Because your optimistic prediction =/= confirmed fact.

It's entirely possible they'll be mixed. It's entirely possible they won't be. I imagine we won't find out until release (or, if reviews tell us).

 

[yellowclone]

As has been covered literally dozens of times, the GT-R Proto is not a good example, since it wasn't a Standard car. It was built to the same multi-piece, few hundred-thousand poly level of detail as Premiums. The reason the windows were black was because the Prototype (the show car) had no interior either.

...
Standards miss out on a level of headlight illumination as mentioned,

I mentioned the GT-R Proto to point out that blacked out windows aren't noticed obviously like some might think. I was not talking about the modeling of the cars when I referenced the black windows. Yes the cars will look different from a modeling and quality standpoint, but if the only thing that will bother some people is the windows, than that was all I was referring to, as was the question that I quoted from my original post on the subject, not the car quality or how it was modeled.


...
As for the headlight comment, we might not miss out on the level of illumination. If the default "standard" headlights are bright, we will get the same level of brightness as the premiums, but won't have the option of changing them. Read what BuickGNX88 posted that was quoted for the standard lights. It says that standard cars will have standard lights. It doesn't say they will have low beam lights only.

 

[EVILWAYS1102]

I hope they do mix. If they don't there will be standard races and premium races. Which has nothing to do with the real world. This from a game that prides itself on being "real".

 

[Luminis]

I hope they do mix. If they don't there will be standard races and premium races. Which has nothing to do with the real world. This from a game that prides itself on being "real".

Having two tiers of cars mix on a track isn't very reakistic either.

One way or another, I think SlipZtrEm is right. We'll have to wait until release to find out whether standards and premiums will mix.

 

[EVILWAYS1102]

Having two tiers of cars mix on a track isn't very reakistic either.

One way or another, I think SlipZtrEm is right. We'll have to wait until release to find out whether standards and premiums will mix.

Yep it will be flawed either way. I am still VERY excited to finally get to play the game though:tup:

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I mentioned the GT-R Proto to point out that blacked out windows aren't noticed obviously like some might think. I was not talking about the modeling of the cars when I referenced the black windows. Yes the cars will look different from a modeling and quality standpoint, but if the only thing that will bother some people is the windows, than that was all I was referring to, as was the question that I quoted from my original post on the subject, not the car quality or how it was modeled.


...
As for the headlight comment, we might not miss out on the level of illumination. If the default "standard" headlights are bright, we will get the same level of brightness as the premiums, but won't have the option of changing them. Read what BuickGNX88 posted that was quoted for the standard lights. It says that standard cars will have standard lights. It doesn't say they will have low beam lights only.

Ah, fair enough. I find it odd people are so bothered by the darkened windows myself, as that's the least of my concerns with the Standards .

True, the website is vague... it's the PD way!
It reads as the Standards only getting one level of illumination. We still don't know what that will be. Actually, the Standard car trailer had a few prototype racers going around what looked like SSR5, and they still weren't producing illumination infront of the them, just the same road-based texture as GT4. Then again, later in the trailer the Renault R5 Rally Car is running around Toscana with what appears to be proper, projected light. So who knows.

Having two tiers of cars mix on a track isn't very reakistic either.

One way or another, I think SlipZtrEm is right. We'll have to wait until release to find out whether standards and premiums will mix.

I'm actually wondering if there will be a clause for reviewers to specifically avoid talking about whether the tiers mix it up together on track. Remember Konami enforcing reviewers to not talk about certain aspects of MGS4? It might be similar...

Agreed, no talk about "realism", at least on this particular subject, is really valid anymore considering the two tier system.

 

[Luminis]

I'm actually wondering if there will be a clause for reviewers to specifically avoid talking about whether the tiers mix it up together on track. Remember Konami enforcing reviewers to not talk about certain aspects of MGS4? It might be similar...

I actually wouldn't be too suprised if they'd place some kind of embargo on most information regarding the standard cars...

 

[Spagetti69]

The metal gear embargo, was that about the story or features. I don't know.

I could understand about the story being under embargo.

Imagine a reviewer saying GT is a 9.4 It would have got a 10 but I can't tell you why.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

The metal gear embargo, was that about the story or features. I don't know.

I could understand about the story being under embargo.

Imagine a reviewer saying GT is a 9.4 It would have got a 10 but I can't tell you why.

I can't quite remember, but I think it was about the cutscenes, or the installs needed at every chapter.

I don't see a review giving GT a perfect 10, but somewhere around 90% or higher seems about right. I'm sure if an embargo is in place, it won't be about Standards in general, but about specific aspects of their inclusion. Maybe about what features they're missing out on, or if they can mix it up on track. Seems kinda silly though either way; it's essentially a "don't say anything negative" clause if done that way.

 

[Devedander]

I can't quite remember, but I think it was about the cutscenes, or the installs needed at every chapter.

I don't see a review giving GT a perfect 10, but somewhere around 90% or higher seems about right. I'm sure if an embargo is in place, it won't be about Standards in general, but about specific aspects of their inclusion. Maybe about what features they're missing out on, or if they can mix it up on track. Seems kinda silly though either way; it's essentially a "don't say anything negative" clause if done that way.

I think we are going to see pretty high scores across the board... just like in the community some people will be able to gloss over areas that need polishing and some will be bothered a lot by them. At any given game site I am sure you can find someone enthusiastic about GT5 and happy to gloss over the low points for a glowing review.

With a game like GT5 you could take a lot of heat for being percieved negative (even if it's about legit issues) and it's the far safer road for a gamesite to put their most positive reviewer on the job for this game.

 

[Organ-Donor]

I think we are going to see pretty high scores across the board... just like in the community some people will be able to gloss over areas that need polishing and some will be bothered a lot by them. At any given game site I am sure you can find someone enthusiastic about GT5 and happy to gloss over the low points for a glowing review.

Gloss over?..or just being able to put the overall scope of the game in perspective without using tunnel vision on one specific area to overshadow the entire masterpiece? Of course GT5 will get knocked on for the standard/premium issue but I have a feeling that will pale in comparison to the overall experience of everything the game has to offer. We are still getting 200+ photo-realistic cars for those that won't touch the "tard cars".

With a game like GT5 you could take a lot of heat for being percieved negative (even if it's about legit issues) and it's the far safer road for a gamesite to put their most positive reviewer on the job for this game.

Well it could go both ways, I'm sure alot of reviewers will take into account the development time of the game when handing out scores, as well as living up to the 5+ year hype. Maybe, just maybe GT5 will get deserving high scores because it earns it, not just because of "heat for being negative".

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I think we are going to see pretty high scores across the board... just like in the community some people will be able to gloss over areas that need polishing and some will be bothered a lot by them. At any given game site I am sure you can find someone enthusiastic about GT5 and happy to gloss over the low points for a glowing review.

With a game like GT5 you could take a lot of heat for being percieved negative (even if it's about legit issues) and it's the far safer road for a gamesite to put their most positive reviewer on the job for this game.

Oh, I expect high reviews across the board too, with exception to Kotaku (wait, do they actually review games?) since they really do seem to have something against Sony in general. I feel like it's generally common practice to put the team's most enthusiastic reviewer on the job for a big game.

It reminds me of this very board last week when people were asked to rate their feelings on TGS and what was shown. People would list pros like "finally confirmed weather, still looking fantastic", and list cons like "still no info about Standards, no further details on online play"... but still rate the show a 9/10. Once we do know all the details though, barring any utterly huge game-breaking issues, I do feel GT5 deserves some very high reviews (though not perfect).

 

[regnar]

I'm just hoping where not waiting to read views by mid November. Expectations of gleaning more info towards late October.

 

[Devedander]

Gloss over?..or just being able to put the overall scope of the game in perspective without using tunnel vision on one specific area to overshadow the entire masterpiece?

Exactly... gloss over... just like you say there.

Well it could go both ways, I'm sure alot of reviewers will take into account the development time of the game when handing out scores, as well as living up to the 5+ year hype. Maybe, just maybe GT5 will get deserving high scores because it earns it, not just because of "heat for being negative".

Basically what I am saying is any gaming review site probably has a you and a me (and a bunch of other people who could care less) and they will usually tend to give the review to the "you" type over the "me" type to avoid the heat so I think we will end up seeing a lot of high scores regardless.

 

[Akira AC]

Exactly... gloss over... just like you say there.



Basically what I am saying is any gaming review site probably has a you and a me (and a bunch of other people who could care less) and they will usually tend to give the review to the "you" type over the "me" type to avoid the heat so I think we will end up seeing a lot of high scores regardless.

Agree the reviewers could not care less about the actual game,and in some cases we saw that games reviews follows marketing campaigns and so on(example kotaku).

I think that tweaking is always necessary, but for the amount of features I don't think its that necessary(take for example halo reach,great game but a lot of tweaks and necessary improvement like some textures and 3D models,still everyone loves it without any questioning,something like this whole site)in any case PD shows they work and its up to the consumer to judge if its worth what they paid for(I personally think that this game its almost like three to four racing games into 1).

 

[yellowclone]

Ah, fair enough. I find it odd people are so bothered by the darkened windows myself, as that's the least of my concerns with the Standards .

True, the website is vague... it's the PD way!
It reads as the Standards only getting one level of illumination. We still don't know what that will be. Actually, the Standard car trailer had a few prototype racers going around what looked like SSR5, and they still weren't producing illumination infront of the them, just the same road-based texture as GT4. Then again, later in the trailer the Renault R5 Rally Car is running around Toscana with what appears to be proper, projected light. So who knows.

The windows are the least of my concerns also. Consequently, however, I would like to be able to tint the windows in my premium cars, to better resemble my real life car. I got kind of excited when I seen that we can paint the wheels, so I can atleast recreate that to look much like my real life car.

I think as far as the lights go, we will probably get something like the Renault in the standard car video for out standard lights. We won't know for sure though, probably, until Nov 2.

 

[SCUD77]

Well it could go both ways, I'm sure alot of reviewers will take into account the development time of the game when handing out scores, as well as living up to the 5+ year hype. Maybe, just maybe GT5 will get deserving high scores because it earns it, not just because of "heat for being negative".

that is where the problem lies 5yrs of hype build up & expectation of perfection just look through the forum there are rose tinted glasses every where stuff like " the game will be perfect" "damage will be perfect" etc etc truth is if gt5 is going to be perfect whats the point in gt6 ?. Some people reviewers included will start the game up and say "5yrs, and that's it".
Trouble is, assumption & rumors become truth on forums and when it fails to deliver in the flesh well there you go, the fact that kaz has made a point of saying not everything will be in the game says a lot about pd not wanting the game to become the "hero"....as the saying goes>
(never meet your hero's there bound to disappoint)
official statement from polyphony:
Re:weather
* Please note that not all courses will incorporate these visual effects.
* Please note that windshield wipers will only operate on premium models.
standard cars have fully-functioning headlights. Premium cars even feature both low and high beams for a variety of racing
standard models have no interior view

 

[EVILWAYS1102]

I am willing to make a bet that standards and premiums will run together. If I'm wrong I will use the Vw bus as my primary car for two days

 

[Jedi2016]

Of course Premiums and Standards will run together... WE'VE SEEN IT ALREADY.

Go watch the weather/effects video again. Look at the night racing on LeMans. Look at the cars in the back that aren't projecting their headlights. Those are standards. PD already said that the standards would have low-quality headlights.. that's them in the video.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

The windows are the least of my concerns also. Consequently, however, I would like to be able to tint the windows in my premium cars, to better resemble my real life car. I got kind of excited when I seen that we can paint the wheels, so I can atleast recreate that to look much like my real life car.

I think as far as the lights go, we will probably get something like the Renault in the standard car video for out standard lights. We won't know for sure though, probably, until Nov 2.

Hmmm. I imagine window tinting would be a really quick thing to make editable, but it looks incredibly unlikely we'll get to fiddle with it this game. IIRC, you've got an '09, correct? And your colour isn't available stock in the game, since they're '08's? Here's hoping this paint option allows us to go through a colour wheel as well as preset options, so we can have our own unique colours too. I'm also curious if we get the different kinds of finishes; metallic, pearl, matte...

that is where the problem lies 5yrs of hype build up & expectation of perfection just look through the forum there are rose tinted glasses every where stuff like " the game will be perfect" "damage will be perfect" etc etc truth is if gt5 is going to be perfect whats the point in gt6 ?. Some people reviewers included will start the game up and say "5yrs, and that's it".
Trouble is, assumption & rumors become truth on forums and when it fails to deliver in the flesh well there you go, the fact that kaz has made a point of saying not everything will be in the game says a lot about pd not wanting the game to become the "hero"....as the saying goes> (never meet your hero's there bound to dissapoint)

Warning: Personal opinion alert
I feel like racing games are possibly the easiest games to avoid giving a perfect score to in a review. A game like MGS4 can conceivably fall back on the reasoning of not wanting to include any non-existent features as "not important to the final product"... but GT? We can always use more content . And personally, if I were a reviewer... I probably would've rated a GT5 that came with no Standards slightly higher overall than the current package. Yeah, there's a lot more cars, but they bring with them something previously unheard of in the series; a huge difference in quality between two levels of cars, and not even in favour number-wise with the higher-quality ones. GT5 with just 200-250 Premiums would be a smaller game, but it'd all be to an insanely high level of quality. GT5's current level of quality, overall, takes a slight dip for having carryovers.

...

On-topic: Since we're almost guaranteed at this point to not be hearing anything about Standards until reviews/release, how does everyone think they'll be incorporated into GT Mode? The Starting Car thread made me wonder; will all Premiums be considered "New", and carry a price premium because of it? Will all Standards be considered "Used" (even something as new as the R8 LMS)? Hmmmm.

(EDIT) - Snuck in on me:

Of course Premiums and Standards will run together... WE'VE SEEN IT ALREADY.

Go watch the weather/effects video again. Look at the night racing on LeMans. Look at the cars in the back that aren't projecting their headlights. Those are standards. PD already said that the standards would have low-quality headlights.. that's them in the video.

Which? You mean the ones that pop up behind the 787B? You mean the R10 TDi and Pug 908? Both confirmed Premiums? Those ones?

There are no Standards in that video.

 

[yellowclone]

Hmmm. I imagine window tinting would be a really quick thing to make editable, but it looks incredibly unlikely we'll get to fiddle with it this game. IIRC, you've got an '09, correct? And your colour isn't available stock in the game, since they're '08's? Here's hoping this paint option allows us to go through a colour wheel as well as preset options, so we can have our own unique colours too. I'm also curious if we get the different kinds of finishes; metallic, pearl, matte...

Yes, mine is an '09, but I got black, so it is one of the available colors for '08. My dad has an '10, and his is Plum Crazy Purple, so we will have to "make" our own for his to look the part. It is very unlikely for us to be able to tint out taillights and side markers also, so I will have to get as close as possible.



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[SCUD77]

Warning: Personal opinion alert

personally, if I were a reviewer... I probably would've rated a GT5 that came with no Standards slightly higher overall than the current package. Yeah, there's a lot more cars, but they bring with them something previously unheard of in the series; a huge difference in quality between two levels of cars, and not even in favour number-wise with the higher-quality ones. GT5 with just 200-250 Premiums would be a smaller game, but it'd all be to an insanely high level of quality. GT5's current level of quality, overall, takes a slight dip for having carryovers.

 

[eSZee]

I remember doing that to my car right after high school.

 

[yellowclone]

I remember doing that to my car right after high school.

What? Blacking everything out?

 

[Revelation1115]

i think premium and standard should be able to run together.. but well see!

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

i think premium and standard should be able to run together.. but well see!

i think it will be a huge waste of PD's time if they dont allow them to run together, as most people i would assume would exclusively play with premium anyways

 

[zlo2]

I didn't care about the whole issue until I saw the weather footage. I guess I will just have to only pick from premium cars for awesome driving experience in the rain.