- 389
- Killinator
- BODKIllinator
Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"
- Thread starter LP670-4 SV
- 10,183 comments
- 784,583 views
- 1,779
- Florida, USA
The reason why this discussion has moved in this direction, is until last year it was assumed that all cars created for GT5 where going the be built from scratch (Premium), then came 2009 GamesCom with the leaked features list from PD Japanese web site giving us two categories of cars Premium & Standard, then came the release of GT PSP where it became apparent that standard meant carried over assets from GT4 & GT PSP. The logic in why their is the possibility of standard tracks (not confirmed) is that PD has taken this route with cars to speed up the process of development, so it's not out of the realm to do the same with tracks, also given the amount of time that PD has stated in the past of a year to create a new track (don't know if this is concurrent or total man hours), given that their is 70 something variations of circuits, their would not seem to be enough time to create all tracks from scratch, even given 6 years of development.
So when was it confirmed we'd have two tiers of tracks?You also asked when did we decide we would get 2 tiers of cars,
We didn't decide, it was confirmed
P.S. Yes, this is a rhetorical question.
- 718
- Tennessee
I guess the title of the thread should be: Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium" cars.
Back on topic. For the ones that say the cockpit view is unrealistic because of your view being blocked alot. Have you driven a real car before, because your view is blocked alot by the a-pillar, roll bar in race cars, and even the seat can block your view with the newer seats, like in Nascar. When I am driving in cockpit view, I am focused through the windshield. I do the same driving a real car, and I have made it a point to note what I see when driving in real life and driving in GT5P, and it is very close. It would be ideal to have a triple screen setup, so that you can just turn your head to see out of the side or the opposite side mirror (like you do in real life), but not everyone can go that route. Bumper cam (cockpit without the surroundings), does not have enough restrictions to make it "real". Windshield view would be the best view, for me, for the standard cars, if available. It wouldn't have the restrictions and realism of the cockpit view, but it would be better than bumper cam, where you see nothing but the ground. Heck you see more than just the ground riding a gocart, much less a real car.
Back on topic. For the ones that say the cockpit view is unrealistic because of your view being blocked alot. Have you driven a real car before, because your view is blocked alot by the a-pillar, roll bar in race cars, and even the seat can block your view with the newer seats, like in Nascar. When I am driving in cockpit view, I am focused through the windshield. I do the same driving a real car, and I have made it a point to note what I see when driving in real life and driving in GT5P, and it is very close. It would be ideal to have a triple screen setup, so that you can just turn your head to see out of the side or the opposite side mirror (like you do in real life), but not everyone can go that route. Bumper cam (cockpit without the surroundings), does not have enough restrictions to make it "real". Windshield view would be the best view, for me, for the standard cars, if available. It wouldn't have the restrictions and realism of the cockpit view, but it would be better than bumper cam, where you see nothing but the ground. Heck you see more than just the ground riding a gocart, much less a real car.
It's a misinterpretation from your (plural) part. No one thought of a two tier system among the cars before it was confirmed. Why would we now start thinking of the worst (well it isn't good) scenario when it's only speculation? Would you want it? I don't. Is this place some kind of ""lets put a two tier system into everything GT5 features" pessimist" thread or something? I'm gone anyway from this thread as it's not getting any better.
- 389
- Killinator
- BODKIllinator
There was specualtion as to the cars for quite a while, Amars original predictions hinted at it and its been picked at for as long as that,
As for the tracks we KNOW that not all weather effects will be available on all tracks, thats confirmed,
We've also seen evidence from Le Mans this year when the 908 and new La Sarthe track were 1st shown that the track had the word premium underneath,
Having seen this and seen what what we know about standard cars, it set a few alarms ringing with some people(I was at Le Mans and I personally didn't notice the premium tag when playing or selecting the track)
Some people (rightly or wrongly) started questioning why a track would need to say 'premium' underneath if they were all premium in the first place,
Since then that tag has dissappeared and has left people questioning why it was ever there in the first place,
seems to me personally that people have every reason to speculate given many were called fools for thinking that standard cars could exist,
I'm undecided but would not be surprised either way.
- 6,804
- The Netherlands
You're seriously suggesting we would want a two-tier system applying to anything or that we're pessimists for assuming it could happen?
The only thing that triggered this was the fact the Premium tag appeared on some tracks ( which were also said to be rebuild ) in a few demo's.
That's not pessimistic or being asked for, just an observation which with the current confirmation of day/night and dynamic weather which will possibly not apply to all tracks makes a Standard track a logical conclusion ( or logical assumption ) if you're slightly realistic.
Maybe they won't be tagged Premium or Standard in the final game but if some tracks won't have the same features as others this will be regarded as Standard and Premium ( a term introduced by PD, not us ).
You can choose to ignore it or deny it exists but it will be there and to be honest it's something I can live with much easier than a two-tier car system.
At least I can pretend it's daytime and sunny weather when driving at those tracks, I can't imagine a cockpit view or full scale damage.
- 10,871
- Plymouth, UK
- motorforum
Wow, so you don't keep an eye on what is coming across junctions (red-light runners, amber gamblers or emergency vehicles) or keep an eye on how close behind you a car is in your rear view?
Because seriously, driving cockpit in a game is nothing like driving on the street should be.
- 2
- dirtdirtdirt
I feel it's not a big deal. so many other features to look at, that this will be minor.
- 314
^ SUPER true!!!
- 389
- Killinator
- BODKIllinator
It something we have to deal with,
But from what we've seen so far its GT5's biggest problem, to call it minor is seriously downplaying it.
WOW...! I didn't noticed that GT5 will feature junctions,but seriously all that you do in cockpit view its look over the windshield and look to the road,you don't win races by looking to the dials on the dash,and you have a rear-view mirror in several camera angles so...,why are you complaining?
Its like some sort of trolling isn't it?
- 751
- Red Deer, AB
- ForgetfuI
The fact that I can only see what is on the screen of my TV, in bumpercam, replicates the fact that everything else around my TV is 'obstructed', without the need for to see the dashboard and wheel on the screen as duplicated obstruction. When I'm sitting at my wheel, the wheel is there in front of me, where it should be. Seeing it on screen duplicates it, in what should be my line of site out the windshield. Cockpit cam is appropriately proportionate to what can be seen out the windshield of a car. The frame of the TV replicates the A pillars and the dash. So the leather isn't Alcantra, and my carpet is a little more shag, compared to what it should be in a Ferrari, but I can still only see through a pane of glass that is roughly the size of a windshield, and that feels more realistic, to me.
Ideally, a windshield camera, with a low angle view of the hood, would be the best view for someone on a large TV, with a wheel and driving rig.
Ideally, a windshield camera, with a low angle view of the hood, would be the best view for someone on a large TV, with a wheel and driving rig.
- 4,323
- 2,586
- trk29
@Forgetful.
I understand what you are saying and you make a really great analogy with the frame of the TV. But I still seem to be more comfortable with driving in the cockpit view and my reason for this is I know where my car is when driving in cockpit view (feels more natural).
For me it is harder to tell where the car is on the track without having some sort of visual reference there like the dash or the hood of the car. I can correct my oversteer easier in this inside view. It's kind of hard for me to describe but another thing is the chase cam I feel like the car is more loose and harder for me to control because I can't see the edge of the track up to the front of the car and it makes judging the line a little harder and it looks like the weight of the car pivots on the front tires backwards.
Now when I drive a car that has poor visability through the cockpit (like the Citroen by GT)I will choose a roof cam. I really wish there was a proper hood cam but as of now there isn't.
Edit: And what SlipZtrEm said about the invisable corners of bumper cam below my post is one of the things I dislike about bumper view.
I understand what you are saying and you make a really great analogy with the frame of the TV. But I still seem to be more comfortable with driving in the cockpit view and my reason for this is I know where my car is when driving in cockpit view (feels more natural).
For me it is harder to tell where the car is on the track without having some sort of visual reference there like the dash or the hood of the car. I can correct my oversteer easier in this inside view. It's kind of hard for me to describe but another thing is the chase cam I feel like the car is more loose and harder for me to control because I can't see the edge of the track up to the front of the car and it makes judging the line a little harder and it looks like the weight of the car pivots on the front tires backwards.
Now when I drive a car that has poor visability through the cockpit (like the Citroen by GT)I will choose a roof cam. I really wish there was a proper hood cam but as of now there isn't.
Edit: And what SlipZtrEm said about the invisable corners of bumper cam below my post is one of the things I dislike about bumper view.
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- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
Until the day we get a user-defined camera location, there will always be discussions over which is more accurate. I prefer cockpit view because I hate the "invisible corners" present in bumper cam. If roof cam was moved to become base-of-windshield-cam, but crucially still had the wipers and rain effects we've seen recently, that'd be pretty much perfect for me, with a wheel setup on a big screen. Perhaps pulling back to give a hint of the dashboard would be nice too. But not having any viewable parts of my car on screen has never, ever felt right to me, which is why I avoid bumper cam.
As for this whole discussion about a two-tier track setup; it's already been confirmed, even if not in name. If certain tracks are going to be lacking in time-of-day and weather effects, they're not to the same standard as others. And personally... I'd hope we get the old GT4 tracks brought in as Standards if they didn't have time to rebuild them. I doubt I'm alone in thinking carryover tracks are at a much smaller graphical and feature handicap compared to the new tracks than Standard cars are to Premiums.
As for this whole discussion about a two-tier track setup; it's already been confirmed, even if not in name. If certain tracks are going to be lacking in time-of-day and weather effects, they're not to the same standard as others. And personally... I'd hope we get the old GT4 tracks brought in as Standards if they didn't have time to rebuild them. I doubt I'm alone in thinking carryover tracks are at a much smaller graphical and feature handicap compared to the new tracks than Standard cars are to Premiums.
- 718
- Tennessee
Apparently you didn't read what I wrote properly. I said, ideally, a triple screen setup would be most accurate in cockpit, since when you look left there is somehing to look at. I said when I'm driving, I look out of the windshield, and I am focused on what is ahead of me. If the need to look around (going around a sharp curve, or crossing an intersection), of course I do. However, I am still blocked by the a-pillar for a split second, or if I look right, I am blocked by the other a-pillar, and partially by the rearview mirror. You do still have to turn your head when driving a real car to see your surroundings, as you do in GT5. Of course in GT5, you have to push a button to look left and right. I can see enough of the rearview mirror to see what is behind me by just moving my eyes, there is enough of it to see what I need to see.
The TV would replicate the windshield if you drove the McLeran (spelling don't look correct, but it is late) all the time, since it's seat position is in the center. Realistically, one a-pillar needs to be closer than the other, and you need to know your location in the car (RHD or LHD) to really know where you are on the track and to know where other cars are. Also, realistically, you need to be seeing some of the car you are driving in front of you (hood, fenders, or something), again to know where you are, accurately, on the track and relationship with other cars.
I just think bumper cam provides too much visibility, and not enough obstruction to be accurate.
I do like the idea of the windshield cam for standard cars, but I would also like it to be off to one side (LHD or RHD), and also require wipers in the rain and snow.
- 751
- Red Deer, AB
- ForgetfuI
It's McLaren
The frame of the TV and the guages are a decent reference, and the amount of viewable area, which is measurable, is pretty damn close on my 48" TV. It's actually still less than I can see from the seat of a real car.
Wanna sit on the left or right? Who says you can't slide your rig over?
I also don't think the dash view, with undrawn wheel, is right either. Anything that is cutoff at half the dash is wrong, as it's like seeing out of one eye. And, if your wheel is in your hands, the dash should be much closer to you than up on the TV screen. That's about where the center of the hood should be, which is about where bumper cam is, for someone who sits at a reasonable distance from a large TV.
Image your TV is a piece of glass. Take it with you when you sit in a real car, and imagine where your TV would sit if the seat of your car were your rig for your FFB Wheel. Your real dashboard wouldn't be on the other side of the glass (what is represented inside your TV). It would be between you and the TV. It's a pretty basic concept.
freshseth83
(Banned)
- 8,246
- freshseth83
To me the most accurate is hood cam. If they did have windshield cam it would be the best. Cockpit is just a little too restricting. At least in some cars. Bumper is a bit too low but it and hood cam are the best ones for me to use. When you see race drivers playing GT, they usually use bumper cam. I've watched countless videos of race car drivers playing racing games using bumper view. Especially open wheel guys. Their cars are that low naturally.
- 252
I think the problem with the hood cam in GT5 : it is too high a view (+ no rear mirror which is very disappointing), and the problem with the bumper vuew : it is too low a view.
for standard cars the best would have been for me : intermediate hood cam + mirror a la PGR4.
I find this disappointing polyphony digital arent proposing a realistic view other than cockpit...hopefully with GT6 all cars would be cockpit...
also is it just me or that the cockpit view in some cars are really horrible and unrealistic to drive (very restrictive view) especially the GT by citroen...it is difficult to see the road ahead of us...
for standard cars the best would have been for me : intermediate hood cam + mirror a la PGR4.
I find this disappointing polyphony digital arent proposing a realistic view other than cockpit...hopefully with GT6 all cars would be cockpit...
also is it just me or that the cockpit view in some cars are really horrible and unrealistic to drive (very restrictive view) especially the GT by citroen...it is difficult to see the road ahead of us...
- 8
- sp33dking89
i think though that later on PD may realese a patch or DLC for the other cars to get a cockpit mode hopefully!
But i dont really mind which car gets cockpit or not i still will drive it!
- 2,586
- trk29
Maybe someone can help me understand. The new picture of the VW bus's interior shows the speedometer. Now looking at this it looks like a texture and the dial doesn't look like it moves. And looks different than other premium cockpits. So if it is a texture does this mean that the dial will not move?
https://www.gtplanet.net/95-gran-tu...els/volkswagen-typ2t1-sambabus-62-interior02/
https://www.gtplanet.net/95-gran-tu...els/volkswagen-typ2t1-sambabus-62-interior02/
- 8,725
- 2,586
- trk29
Yeah I was wondering about that, it is square and the dial is round. hmmm.
