Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[CoolColJ]

I think to a good extend people won't be terribly dissapointed (ie your eyes won't bleed) but it's noteable that GT5 has gone from the game that will crush all others to (in large part) a game for which 80% of the cars won't be dissapointing.

You have to admit the GT Patriotism has run pretty deep and hot at times and it's kind of coming around now...

I apolgize for using you as an example again, but when you look at premiums and comment they are unimpressive and not too bad, that really says something.

According to Kaz your going about it the wrong way - You get 200+ cars in GT5, the rest is a bonus.

Just ignore the standard cars and that's GT5 for you. For me I'll take em all
Track count is far more important once you reach a baseline threshold of car count
Some games have 400 cars and 20 tracks... bleah!
Others have 60 odd cars and 15-20 tracks...

 

[Pie 'n' Peas]

According to Kaz your going about it the wrong way - You get 200+ cars in GT5, the rest is a bonus.

Just ignore the standard cars and that's GT5 for you. For me I'll take em all
Track count is far more important once you reach a baseline threshold of car count
Some games have 400 cars and 20 tracks... bleah!
Others have 60 odd cars and 15-20 tracks...

Same here. For me, the car count is 200 or so, which itself is way more than most driving games out there. The 800 cars from past games is one massive bonus that just makes the game even better!

You are right though, tracks are far more important than car count, because even with 1000+ cars in the game, how many people are going to bother even getting 10% of those in their garage? Of that 10%, how many of those will people regularly race? Exactly, their favourite few. Personally, I hold my hand up and admit to being way more attracted towards the faster, more exotic cars, so will never bother with most of the slower ones. Therein lies the beauty of GT5 - it's scale is so huge that it can cater for almost any needs.

 

[Tenacious D]

Looking at the rate people flock to the US as a measure of how "great" the country is, is as flawed as looking to sales numbers to determine how good a singer someone is. It hardly tells the whole story

Well, that's one man's opinion, and we're certainly used to that... But because of the vast number of people who come here from just about every country on Earth, it's a very good barometer.

So you come back to this thread just to troll? Figures.

So now every response to you unless I love your lovely posts is trolling?

No, you ask because you still find it shocking, and it almost seems, offensive, that people can genuinely enjoy the graphics of a game that doesn't come with a GT logo on the tin. "Inflated airbags"? Go take a gander at any of the pictures in the FM3 board. Tell me how they're missing "most of the detail" compared to GT4. Hell, they have interiors.

No, I'm exploring consistency. And obviously you didn't read my post very closely at all. Take a picture of a bot car sometime. People were shocked when pics started coming out of them.

I don't follow the last sentence either. Yeah, I enjoyed FM3, that doesn't mean I don't see issues with having both tiers on track in GT5. For one... every car I played with in the former had the same amount of features. In GT5, I could get in a mix-up with a Standard, while I'm in a Premium, and my car will look like it got in a scrap. The Standard, with it's painted-on details, will bounce along on it's merry way with "scratches". Woo. And of course, so far all this new, very impressive weather won't affect the Standard driver's visibility, so I'd have to downgrade out of my cockpit view to negate their inherent advantage. Double woo.

Well, we all don't drive in cockpit view by choice. I'm also not put off by whatever damage standards Standard cars have. I had just as much fun racing in GTR Evo when it showed visual damage almost on par with Ferrari Challenge, which is very limited.

You might love Forza's limited and scripted damage modeling, lots do. I did for a while, but after a while, everything in Forza becomes it's own little microcosm of limits. You get used to it or you don't, and after a while, it left me hungry for Gran Turismo again. And around here, it's a rather common affliction from all stripes of members.

Are you trying to say that every car in GT5 will follow that quote? They'll all be, polygon-wise, Prologue levels or better? Can I hold onto this quote for a month? It'll come in handy.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to get me to say here, so I'll restate it from scratch. From what I've seen of the Standard cars, they look at least as good as the Photo Mode models in GT4. Obviously I love them, and obviously you don't care for them much. But the GT5 graphics engine does wonders for giving them a lot of realistic polish, which neither one of us has had a very good look at to judge just what quality of model they offer in comparison. Plus, what we've seen of the Standards is months old at least. What I've seen even of that leaves me happy, and many of us happy, and you and many others not. But you can't say anything definitive until the game ships.

Of course you do. You took them yourself. And they're from GT. Still haven't seen them pop up in the gallery section. I wonder why.

Because It's a very time consuming process to create a gallery, and I've been so busy since August that I've barely posted. I don't suppose you've noticed my absence.

I need a 30 hour day to do half the stuff I do, and this is true now more than ever. I bail on a lot of my "extracurricular" activities because my music work, art work and writing work are all suffering from neglect. It's taken me this long to come up with a concept for my Kazunori painting I like because I just haven't had time to devote to it as I want. And as a bachelor who's contemplating getting involved with a young lady, this is an ominous condition to be in, as time seems to vanish like water in a desert when women become part of the equation. Still, the benefits are nice.

All I can tell you is, I'll do things when I do them. I can't make time the way the administration prints dollars.

You are right though, tracks are far more important than car count, because even with 1000+ cars in the game, how many people are going to bother even getting 10% of those in their garage? Of that 10%, how many of those will people regularly race?

I'm with you on track count, but I think you underestimate the garage count a bit. I think even in GT4, you can win over 100 cars, which is about 10% of GT5's car count. I can hardly guess how many prize cars we'll be getting in GT5!

It's hard to say what the casual racer does with Gran Turismo. But it does seem that the typical racer does experiment a bit, and hit the asphalt with a decent range of vehicles. I think the number of people who have more than 200 cars in their GT4 garage is surprisingly high. 200 might be the low mark for GT5, and the average much more. Yeah, the Premium only crowd might have 120 or so, but just think of how many muscle car fans there are, and European make fans, and the dreaded Japanese car collectors like me. The average GT5 garage could end up being very large. Yeah, my GT4 garage holds around 370 cars right now, but I do race more than 100 of them regularly, from all classes, and I rediscovered a few months ago how cool the muscle cars are.

GT5 may push everyone's boundaries in ways we don't suspect. And of course that will be a good thing.

 

[Lilday]

Anybody play GTHD?

I think thats what standards will look like. (Things like the R32 etc).

I think GTHD showed cars in the process of being upscaled to GT5P standards (as premium) but only half finished, so I guess GTHD demo gives a good impression of how standards will look.

 

[Gejost]

according to kaz your going about it the wrong way - you get 200+ cars in gt5, the rest is a bonus.

qftw

 

[Abraxas]

I'm new to Gran Turismo series. I haven't played even prologue. So for me 1000 cars is something astonishing. I prefer cocpit view, but hell, if I have to choose whether to have ability to drive Audi Quattro from bumper cam, or not drive it at all, I'm glad that we have these 800 bonus cars.
200 is massive, 1000... well, gonna chatch'em all

 

[analog]

By the way, there's something I've been meaning to address...

Ah how convenient, me too, as this thread and this section of the forum ( as you don't limit it just to this thread ) is meant to discuss a videogame called GT5 which can be discussed and enjoyed by people of all kinds of political and religious persuasions simply for what it is, a videogame.

Why are you continually "treating" us on your political views when in this context they are nothing more than off-topic proclamations or monologues which people either don't want to discuss here or if they did the moderators would warn them that this thread should remain on-topic?

There already is a section on this forum called Opinions & Current Events where you are free to discuss your political views in the proper context and where they will be met with agreeing or challenging viewpoints and people willing to argue or applaud whatever you wish to get off your chest.
Or are they simply meant as monologues not to be discussed?
If so then we should perhaps regard them as irrelevant additional custom made signatures for that particular post.

What if I wrote something about Standard and Premium cars and ended it with, "by the way, our government......( wall of text explaining the entire Dutch political situation at the moment which unfortunately lends itself extremely well for a heated and polarising debate )"?
You know why I don't? Because it would be extremely off-topic, pointless in the context of discussing GT5 ( and pointless when I want to debate this political issue ) and extremely annoying.
There you go, my rant, welcome back by the way.

 

[TouringDevotee]

I apolgize for using you as an example again, but when you look at premiums and comment they are unimpressive and not too bad, that really says something.

Wasn't John's comment about a single vehicle (Vette) in a video? I can see why he thought that the car was standard (exterior that is), as the poor quality video made the reflections on the car appear as overblown highlights on very flat looking, orange paint.

With regard to the interior, and forgive me if I am wrong, but didn't we just see a steering wheel column from the view of the dashboard?

What seems to have happened to John is what happened to a friend of mine when he placed a Namco Museum disc (maybe it was) in his PSOne and the Soul Blade (Edge) intro started up. He was shocked, believed it to be an Easter egg he'd accidentally unlocked, and immediately started talking about how the quality wasn't as good and pointing out its defects. Then the game menu showed up.

After a bit of time, he popped open the Playstation and sure enough, he'd placed the Namco Museum disc right on top of the Soul Blade game disc, which was already in the system.

I think John was just caught up in a belief, created by a bad video and an old car that actually has an ugly and lackluster interior in the real world. I could be wrong, but this is what I took from it.

 

[VXR]

If Kaz says the standard have been upscaled, he could just mean they're rendered within a 1080p environment as opposed to a 480i environment. The GT4 cars got a little better at 1080i from what I've seen (they cut it from the PAL release. Gah!), so maybe a little extra 1080p sharpness will be applied, but whilst they'll look like good CG models, they won't look as realistic as cars from most other games this generation with GT4's textured details on a mesh modeling.

 

[JohnBM01]

No, you're on the money, TouringDevotee. I saw the classic Corvette as a Premium. Didn't race it, though.

 

[Griffith500]

I have to say, even with Kaz stating that the Premiums have 400 000 polygons, whilst the Standards only had 4 000 (in GT4) , I'm struggling to recognise a ten-fold increase in detail in the Premiums over the Standards.

Maybe we need to see some side-by-side shots from a photo-mode type affair.

 

[Lucas]

Those 396 000 polygons are there. It's just that some of them are used in such small things that they are not recognizable without zooming in, just like that picture of the BMW headlight.

 

[Abraxas]

You have to remember that premium cars heve detailed interiors, modelled engines and others. That significantly increases polycount. I think that exterior of premiums is about 100000-150000 polygons. That is still way more, but to be honest it will only be big diference in photomode. At race track, with dynamic action it won't bug me at all.

 

[emotionap1]

This. Thread. Is. Still. Alive? Standards ftw.

 

[regnar]

I would imagine on the Premiums a good 60% of the approx. 500,000 polygons probably make up the interior & under areas such as the hood. With the Standards, maybe 85-90% makeup the exterior.
It would be interesting to know approx. exterior polygon comparison of Premium to Standard.

I think GT1 & GT2 had approx. 300 polygons per car.

GT3 & GT4, approx. 3,000 to 4,000 polygons per car.

Here is some polygon counts of various games:
http://www.gamestepper.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1402

 

[analog]

You have to remember that premium cars heve detailed interiors, modelled engines and others.

Do we even know all Premium cars, besides the ones where the engine is visible from the outside and/or the inside of the car ( like some mid-engined cars ), will have modelled engines?
I guess when they are visible they obviously needed to be modelled, and maybe some Premium cars therefore have a higher amount of polygons than others, but I haven't heard a confirmation they all have modelled engines.

 

[Abraxas]

For me it's a waste of polycount, and time. I hope they did't spend time to do them all, but in Toyota prototype trailer you can see it's engine.

 

[Devedander]

According to Kaz your going about it the wrong way - You get 200+ cars in GT5, the rest is a bonus.

Just ignore the standard cars and that's GT5 for you. For me I'll take em all
Track count is far more important once you reach a baseline threshold of car count
Some games have 400 cars and 20 tracks... bleah!
Others have 60 odd cars and 15-20 tracks...

As has been pointed out many times around here, it's stupid not to paint your product in the best possible light, even if it takes some creativity.

If I was selling it, I would certainly say it was 200 plus bonus 800! But I would also wait until the last minute to call it that and for the majority of the dev time I would strongly imply it would be 1000 top notch cars.

I would also say my product would be the definitive product of the generation, and I would wait until the last second to say "well my eyes don't exactly bleed while playing it".

Marketing speek is marketing speek... the truth is obvious though... GT5 was hyped and promoted on an implied 1000 GT5P or better quality cars and then turned out not to be. After the fact you can try to sell it as 200+bonus 800 but really the very expectations PD built for themselves make it 1000 - 800 not up to expectations.

Wasn't John's comment about a single vehicle (Vette) in a video? I can see why he thought that the car was standard (exterior that is), as the poor quality video made the reflections on the car appear as overblown highlights on very flat looking, orange paint.

With regard to the interior, and forgive me if I am wrong, but didn't we just see a steering wheel column from the view of the dashboard?

What seems to have happened to John is what happened to a friend of mine when he placed a Namco Museum disc (maybe it was) in his PSOne and the Soul Blade (Edge) intro started up. He was shocked, believed it to be an Easter egg he'd accidentally unlocked, and immediately started talking about how the quality wasn't as good and pointing out its defects. Then the game menu showed up.

After a bit of time, he popped open the Playstation and sure enough, he'd placed the Namco Museum disc right on top of the Soul Blade game disc, which was already in the system.

I think John was just caught up in a belief, created by a bad video and an old car that actually has an ugly and lackluster interior in the real world. I could be wrong, but this is what I took from it.

No, you're on the money, TouringDevotee. I saw the classic Corvette as a Premium. Didn't race it, though.

I must have misread the post...

This is where I'm getting my ideas on Standard vs. Premium. This video showcases a Corvette drifting around Indianapolis Motor Speedway (oval):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGzHPwTKsjg

My inclination is to say that this Corvette is a Standard car. Just wait until you see the in-car view, though. Yeah, it's unimpressive, but at least it's not a bunch of all-black bitmaps and textures pretending to look like a proper in-car view. And it's not a one-size-fits-all in-car display. It honestly doesn't look all that bad to me. I'm not going to throw hissy fits just because not every car has as beautiful of detail as a Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG. I don't play racing games jut to enjoy interior details. I don't play racing games to enjoy any details unimportant (from basic and classical standpoints) to whether or not I can race and win successfully. Instead, it's all about the racing.

Now I dunno, it doesn't sound like a rushed mistake of a call, it sounds like John Marines usual well thought out and in depth analysis of the sitaution. We can all sit back and say what everyone would and might think, but honestly... John Marine looked at a premium car carefully and decided it must be standard because while it wasn't great looking, it wasn't that bad.

What that tells me is that a very solid thinker and poster expects this level of detail to be the standard in GT5 and has bought the marketing as much as anyone.

Note also so far John hasn't really said much about anything besides the aesthetic differences... while the physics and engine damage should be the same (I don't think that's confirmed yet but I really hope THATS not a surprise bomshell later) there are other aspects (especially the ability to have a cockpit view with all the trimmings included vision imparing weather effects) will be missing which truly are a part of the racing experience.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

So now every response to you unless I love your lovely posts is trolling?

Specifically?

Did your eyes bleed playing Forza?

Obvious troll is obvious. Not to mention it doesn't help your... "argument" much if you're complaining about another game's AI car LoD but then say that you don't pay attention to these things during a race. Though even I'll admit I won't notice the differences half as much while I'm racing. But as someone who spends a fair amount of time in Photomode (as you do as well), where the entire point is to notice the little details, those last-gen models are going to make themselves known.

You might love Forza's limited and scripted damage modeling, lots do. I did for a while, but after a while, everything in Forza becomes it's own little microcosm of limits. You get used to it or you don't, and after a while, it left me hungry for Gran Turismo again. And around here, it's a rather common affliction from all stripes of members.

First... where did I say I love Forza's damage model? To be fair, this "microcosm of limits" applies to every game, not just Forza's. In GT4 it took little time to figure out how far I could push the penalty system in the rally races, if need be, as just one example. Judging from the general tone of all of your responses to me, you still don't seem to understand I still prefer GT. Even playing FM3 had me wanting to get back to the familar setup... though the Porsches, quite awesome car lineup (in some ways superior, imo), and livery editor were nice. I don't gel with FM3 as well, for whatever reason, but I can recognize the areas it excels at, and also the areas GT could stand to improve in.

But you can't say anything definitive until the game ships.

Oh, agreed. Which is why I try to type "from what we've seen so far", or something similar, as much as possible .

And as a bachelor who's contemplating getting involved with a young lady, this is an ominous condition to be in, as time seems to vanish like water in a desert when women become part of the equation. Still, the benefits are nice.

See, now this part just surprises me. There are people around here who are talking about how their family knows where their time will be invested come release day. For a self-proclaimed fanboy and someone who's going to paint the game's producer... you're even contemplating the woman?! Is there some Scarlett Johansson clone I don't know about?!

 

[5Liter]

200 Premium cars would be perfect, however a lot of them are being wasted on relatively useless cars. Nascar? VW bus? Hitlers drop top? Go Carts? Toyota Prius?

I haven't played Forza 3, but i'm pretty sure it shipped with 400 fully modeled cars (+all the DLC) so it is probably in the range of 450-500 now.

200 for Gran Turismo 5 is a bit lackluster...Not sure what they've been doing for the past five years but it would be nice if it shipped with at least 300-350 premium cars that you'd actually want to drive. I will buy the game regardless and i'm sure they are saving a bunch of cars for future purchase through DLC, which is pretty smart of them.

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

Don't hold your breath on DLC.

 

[PirateThom]

200 Premium cars would be perfect, however a lot of them are being wasted on relatively useless cars. Nascar? VW bus? Hitlers drop top? Go Carts? Toyota Prius?

I haven't played Forza 3, but i'm pretty sure it shipped with 400 fully modeled cars (+all the DLC) so it is probably in the range of 450-500 now.

200 for Gran Turismo 5 is a bit lackluster...Not sure what they've been doing for the past five years but it would be nice if it shipped with at least 300-350 premium cars that you'd actually want to drive. I will buy the game regardless and i'm sure they are saving a bunch of cars for future purchase through DLC, which is pretty smart of them.

This is a good point. I won't even touch NASCAR, not because I hate the sport, just because I don't care about the cars, same with quite a few of the premiums but... here's the thing, this has been the case with ANY driving game. No matter how many or how few cars it has, there's inevitably a ton you won't touch ever.

I've probably gone through the other GT games with a total or 5 or 6 cars.

 

[5Liter]

That is very true...in which case they should've made this game for enthusiasts. Why waste all that time developing a Toyota Prius or Honda CRZ? That probably means there are other economy-based hybrids, which means there are going to be specialized races for these cars. Also keep in mind Formula 1 (which I love) is probably going to be in the ranks of these premium cars with various models of essentially the same car. So if you figure Formula 1, Nascar, Gokarts, and WRC are all in this list of 200 cars, were probably down to 100-125 full fledged premium production cars...

I understand Gran Turismo is about variety, but if you're focusing on 200 *PREMIUM* cars, make them count. Now, if it shipped with say, 400 cars, then the inclusion of a couple hybrids and SUV's would be fine.

 

[Tenacious D]

Obvious troll is obvious. Not to mention it doesn't help your... "argument" much if you're complaining about another game's AI car LoD but then say that you don't pay attention to these things during a race. Though even I'll admit I won't notice the differences half as much while I'm racing. But as someone who spends a fair amount of time in Photomode (as you do as well), where the entire point is to notice the little details, those last-gen models are going to make themselves known.

Why did you quote an old post? That's usually something a troll would do.

And I guess something is still flying over your head. Let me spell it out a little plainer for you.

You spend a good deal of time in here trying to get everyone to agree that the Standard cars in GT5 are sucky old models. You hate for anyone to even mention the F-game. So lo and behold, you make a post discussing that "other" game, and how cool it is. I don't recall you saying how dreadful the other cars in race are, with drastically reduced detail, to the point that the cars sometime resemble plushies as much as the originals when you examine them. I'll peek at your post, and if you did, I'll edit in a correction, but I want to get this out of the way.

See, I'm after a bit of consistency on your part. After going round and round about how the Standard cars are craptastic models from the old days when car models didn't even push 10K polys, and even trying to make it look like Kazunori was saying the Standard cars have 4K of polygons, I don't recall you ever griping about how Turn 10 short sheeted Forza 3 so the driver car could look as good as it does. At least from the outside.

And look, even though when you examine at a bot car closely and find that it's really pretty sad, in a race or even a Photo Mode shoot, it doesn't look too bad at all. It had to be pointed out to us.

You can say that it's obvious to you that the Standard cars do look that bad at all. But see, we were thinking how decent the Standards looked to us when we saw the trailer. Heck, I thought it was really neat! It took some of you guys pasting in stills and blowing them up and saying, "Look! This is oogly."

It had to be pointed out to us. Well, do the same thing with a Forza bot car. How pretty is that?

Ya know, ugly car is ugly car. But the difference is that I wouldn't take any pics of a Forza bot car except to snicker at it. But I would, and do, admire the lines - and facets - of a GT4 "standard" car. I know this baffles you, but I'm looking forward to snapping pics of Standard cars in GT5 along with the Prems. The quantum leap in realism in GT5's environments and lighting are going to be the dealmaker for me, and I'm going to luxuriate in it. Would I rather all the cars be Premiums? Sure. And race moddable and livery paintable too. But it's a matter of taking what's offered with gratitude, because if it's an issue of being able to race around in a 240SX and Camaro and Sileighty around these incredible new tracks with awesome realistic physics or not, I'll take the cars, yes please, thank you. Camera in hand.

And that's the deal. You can either enjoy the fact that we're getting around a thousand cars, of which 200 plus are stunningly rendered and behave physically inside and out as real metal machines. Or you can be a grumpy gus over the Standards for years while you wait for GT6. Please God, hold the world together long enough...

I suppose I'm easy to please. But then, I'm not getting ulcers over the issue. I know people are what they are, and they can't exactly decide to be different, and some people just can't stomach the Standards being in the newest shiniest Gran Turismo. Some have to have cockpit view. I don't know what to tell you guys except, well, give 'em a shot anyhow, and if you still can't stand them, you do have 200 stupendous cars to play with.

 

[Racin'Jason]

I haven't played Forza 3, but i'm pretty sure it shipped with 400 fully modeled cars (+all the DLC) so it is probably in the range of 450-500 now.

Forza 3's cockpits were not full models, and cannot be compared to the cockpits of GT (based on GT5P & Videos viewed of GT5 cockpits) in my opinion.

 

[5Liter]

Well they should've taken that approach with the 800 left-over cars and have 200 fully rendered interiors.

I'd even be happy with 500 cars total (not 1,000) given that they are all visually on the same level. Seeing that that won't be the case, I just hope these "Standard" cars are only lacking an interior view and the exteriors are not direct imports of the PS2 version in HD.

 

[Organ-Donor]

That is very true...in which case they should've made this game for enthusiasts. Why waste all that time developing a Toyota Prius or Honda CRZ? That probably means there are other economy-based hybrids, which means there are going to be specialized races for these cars.

Like it's been said before 3 factors play into this:
Cars PD wants in, cars manufacturers want, and cars fans want. Besides just because you find certain cars a waste doesn't mean that's true for others.

I understand Gran Turismo is about variety, but if you're focusing on 200 *PREMIUM* cars, make them count. Now, if it shipped with say, 400 cars, then the inclusion of a couple hybrids and SUV's would be fine.

The game is for the masses not just you, that's why there's such a variety. I also find it funny how people dismiss the amount of premium cars like its a small number, I doubt the average person will drive more than 15-20 cars on a regular basis.

 

[LaBounti]

200 Premium cars would be perfect, however a lot of them are being wasted on relatively useless cars. Nascar? VW bus? Hitlers drop top? Go Carts? Toyota Prius?

I haven't played Forza 3, but i'm pretty sure it shipped with 400 fully modeled cars (+all the DLC) so it is probably in the range of 450-500 now.

200 for Gran Turismo 5 is a bit lackluster...Not sure what they've been doing for the past five years but it would be nice if it shipped with at least 300-350 premium cars that you'd actually want to drive. I will buy the game regardless and i'm sure they are saving a bunch of cars for future purchase through DLC, which is pretty smart of them.

This is PD's first full GT release. Turn10 did not model 400 cars for FM3. They out sourced the car modeling and many are just off. The rest are FM2 carry overs with tweaks(headlights,grills, emblems and interioirs) instead of full remodeling. So they Started in 2007 with the FM2 cars. They may not have had the time to do interiors for FM2 so they finished them for FM3, Meaning they did not have to do much. FM3 is the second game to appear on 360, FM2 had around 200ish cars with no interior. Looking at the F40 and Viper Competition Coupe in replays you can see flat 2D pictures in the back window and the high detail version you can see the details are not that great. The Viper has no roll cage in game and F40's engine has PS2 geometry. PD did not take these types of Short cuts with Premium cars. The details are much greater and it takes more time to model the cars. GT6 will start with GT5's foundation of cars the same way T10 did with FM2 and FM3 and most likely FM4.

GT5 Prologue had what 70ish cars in 2008. 1 year later,140(2009), one more year later 210(2010). So they can do about 70 a year if you look at it that way.

 

[shirakawaa]

I'm starting to wonder if this is really a premium car. The interior is exceedingly dark.
From the September 2010 PS3 Kiosk demo:

[youtubehd]8SsP7NkkfWU[/youtubehd]

 

[Kryz11]

its a premium car, its listed as a premium car. New TGS and 2010 demo has the interior more light up.