Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[SlipZtrEm]

Although, as I stated in another thread, if there is 800 standard cars, then there has to be some new ones, because I don't even think there was that many in GTPSP... and we already know a lot of those are premium cars anyway.

So there has to be some standard models that are newly modelled. It will be interesting to see what sort of level they have modelled them too. They may be significantly better than the other standard/GT4 models, you never know.

PSP hits the 800 car number, mostly due to the pointless copies of Miatas, Skylines, and the entire Vauxhall/Opel copy issue. So we might not get any newly modelled S cars. I'd have to wonder why we would anyways...

Some of us posted about the car models in GT PSP which weren't quite up to Prologue/GT5 standards, but still looked amazing, and assumed this was the Standard Car level. Some of us insisted that it was interior damage which wasn't modeled, not full dashes and such, surely. And we definitely wouldn't be seeing two levels of graphics. I was even in on that aspect.

You clearly have some pretty strong bias if the PSP comment doesn't have the added "for a portable game" after "amazing". It's not "weren't quite up to Prologue/GT5 standards", the car models are worse than GT4's. It was to be expected really, and for that I don't hold it against them. But it was hardly comparable to the current-generation's levels, nevermind PS2.

I find it strange you keep harping on Sony forcing PD to create GTPSP. How hard did you really think it was? They crafted a dozen new cars for it, gave us new challenges in place of licenses, and an updated physics engine based off the GT5 model (at the time). The rest was optimizing the models of cars and tracks to run smoothly on a handheld. That's it. It was hardly a new game, and really shouldn't have taken much time. Then again, it's PD.

I will have to say that it seems odd that some of you seem really upset that we aren't as upset about this situation as you are. I think you're wasting your energy, but maybe this will be therapeutic for you. After you go through the catharsis of ranting for a week, maybe you'll calm down enough to think things through rationally. Why not have 800 additional Standard Cars, and even Standard Tracks? When has more, even if it isn't to the same standard "more," been a bad thing?

By your logic, I hope they include some utterly painful looking GT1 or GT2 models. Because more is always better!

The poll doesn't have an option for the most logical and best route PD could have taken:

Actually design the cars for PS3, at a happy medium level of detail between (what we know now as) 'premium' and 'standard', allowing for a reasonable development time AND consistent assets. Even if that means having less cars than 1000, so long as around 400 or so (probably the point where a lot of cars seems like a lot of cars regardless of how many hundreds there are). Not having 1000 cars is PERFECTLY OK for the first GT on PS3. GT has always been about visuals, the flagship for Sony consoles graphically. It is absolutely idiotic to include upscaled PS2 models. If they cannot model 400 or more cars at a premium level, logically you MUST find a happy medium you can actually deliver on.

Similarly, cars should NOT be designed with GT7 on PS4 in mind - the premium models we have now likely won't look good enough for PS4 anyway. There is no point trying to future proof car models, if that was the intention (it was with the GT4 photomode models - which now look utterly unimpressive compared to current gen standards, no matter how you polish them up).

PD should have gone all out to make GT5 the best game it can be in the time frame available. With consistent and impressive current gen quality across all assets in the game.

This should have been a no-brainer decision right from the start and never bothered wasting time importing old low-poly/detail crap from PS2 (vision GT etc). This is simply what every other development studio does every generation - produce titles in a timely manner at the level of detail the current system can utilise best.

PD can't manage projects whatsoever. Including PS2-derived cars (regardless of also including 200 better cars) says "we think PS2 cars are fine for this gen" to the customer. It is a disgrace to the graphical Sony-pony GT has and should always be. It must be a consistent product. This is just game-design 101 stuff. Customers and fans are annoyed - hell I'm annoyed and I'm a HUGE GT fan. The standard cars do not look impressive, not impressive like the generational leap every other GT game launch has been on a new system. The premium cars don't assuage that feeling - they're more there to remind you that the vast majority of the cars aren't up to scratch.

This. This is what I've been saying the whole time. We shouldn't be making excuses for PD deciding on a level of detail for cars that, while certainly impressive, meant a hugely compromised total number of cars (that all are at the same quality level). I would've been far happier with half the current tally, but them all being the same quality level. Having all of these GT4 cars, which will be limited in their range of options in the game compared to the Premiums, is just going to remind me what I'm missing.

Damn you seem so upset like GT5 is your life Im sorry for you being so disgusted with PD, but nothing is going to change bro. We just have to accept and take the good out of the situation, which i think we are in a good situation with GT5 👍

Find a new tune. People are free to have criticisms, it doesn't mean GT is their life. It is a product, and they are unhappy with it; this happens with every other product in life too. Just as there's always going to be people who continue to overlook a product's shortcomings and swear there aren't any.

Not to mention 1,000 cars that will roll-over, take damage (both physical and mechanical).

I'd be surprised and angry if the standard cars could not be customized. But I won't speculate as we don't know jack about that topic.

SrRd, I hope I'm wrong, but I expect you to end up angry. Just based on the nature of Standard cars being a one-piece model with painted-on shutlines, PD has pretty much answered the customization question. I'm sure we'll be able to change rims and add wings again... but nothing will be able to be done to the model unless the last big secret is an (R) Mod for Standard cars, since (R) Mods had a separate car model. Mind you, the chances of PD making 600+ new car models for Standard are about as high as GT5 being released in... 2009 .

 

[Seismica]

Even that picture can't hold a candle to Shift's graphics, sorry.

Those images appear to be the PC version on high settings, sorry.

The PS3 version looks nowhere near as good as GT5. Though obviously, the models are better than the standard cars.

 

[Tornado]

PSP hits the 800 car number, mostly due to the pointless copies of Miatas, Skylines, and the entire Vauxhall/Opel copy issue.

Don't forget the EU, U.S. and JP versions for some cars.

 

[KilzoneStrife]

I was angry and sad at the start,I mean,when KY 1st mentioned 950cars and thought of Prologue,"they actually modelled 950interiors !",then the feb psm saying every car has interiors.if the standard cars have a decent interior (Im ok with lower,just not the psp type) Im fine with the 'standard' cars.still,having a seperation sucks.but judging by GT3-->GT4,I bet the second GT5 leaves PD,they'll start working on GT6.really,GT5 with 1000 intereriors is perfection... Its near perfection without,but still the best on the market.Im just not use to ever being underwhelmed with anything PD offers..its kinda hard to think the standard cars wont have interiors..

 

[RedSuinit]

Do you honestly think users believe they have the power to change GT5's development now? Of course not. Still, PD needs feedback, especially when so many users are very critical of something. Please don't tell us what we can or can't be critical of. I prefer to hold a 6 year, $60M+ game up to higher... standards.

Clearly you haven't heard the news of: Weather, day to night shifts, go karting, TRACK EDITOR, 200+ PREMIUM models that are practically TRUE TO LIFE, NASCAR, WRC, the list continues to grow. If you think that is not a VERY high standard, you're delusional. That is a TON of content for one game. PERIOD.

 

[AERO_HDT]

Yes indeed, so you could safely say that since Kaz announced that GT5 was going to have 1000+ cars, how long has it been since then? 9 months?

Longer.

PD have been working on current PS3 gen high definition graphics and models well before the PS3 was even on the shelves. They had dev-kits in 2004 to get started on.

It's my bet that they've been building 100-150 cars a year since GT4 was released.

Personally, the "standard" definition is by all affairs, going to be equal to, if not way superior to any other game out there. The "premium" cars, as Kaz said, are so detailed that they're almost beyond what we have come to accept as current generation graphics.

I put full faith in Kaz and PD to deliver an astounding product. They have never ceased to amaze me in 13 years, their passion, astonishing standards and enthusiasm are felt in every aspect of their games.

 

[JDMKING13]

Find a new tune. People are free to have criticisms, it doesn't mean GT is their life. It is a product, and they are unhappy with it; this happens with every other product in life too. Just as there's always going to be people who continue to overlook a product's shortcomings and swear there aren't any.



.

Find a new tune? Honestly not to be rude but you need to fine a new tune. I understand how upset you are about this standard car situation and you have the right to express your opinion however its been days now and your still crying about the same things. Not only that people who have accepted the fact we cannot not do nothing to change the game, but lets take all the good from the information we got and be happy, When i read your post toward people and GT your always bringing the game down and people feeling toward the game, Im sorry you cant look past even with those standard cars but to be real with you no other racing game for consoles is going to touch GT5 👍

 

[KilzoneStrife]

um,can somebody help me out?I was under the impression there was a Camaro in the E3 2010 demo and in the 'standard car' trailer.and that the demo camaro had an interior? Is this true? That gave me a glimmer of hope,standards have interiors..

 

[Pescara for GT5]

Sorry if this is an old question but I didn't read the thread much, will Regular cars be able to be on the same screen as Premium cars, probably a dumb question, but wondering here.

 

[Invictus321]

Personally, the "standard" definition is by all affairs, going to be equal to, if not way superior to any other game out there. The "premium" cars, as Kaz said, are so detailed that they're almost beyond what we have come to accept as current generation graphics.

I believe this to be true. There is no way in hell that they will have anything in GT5 with PS2 graphics.

Heres how i see it:

Premium cars will be amazing, every single detail modelled, as we have seen.

Standard will have the exterior detail of a GT5: Prologue car, which is awesome. And they will have interior, but it will not be a true interior, just an approximate interior. For example, theres some stupid amount of different Nissan Skylines, so they will just have the same interior for all of them.

And the standard cars won't have the back seat, under the hood, suspension etc etc... all modelled. Like the GT website says, the standard models won't have panel detachment damage, so theres no need to model all the internals of the car. Just the cockpit part that you can see when you drive.

So standard cars probably won't be 'bad'. They will be just like gt5 prologue.

But sure they will be crap compared to premium cars, which will look absolutely incredible. But we can't expect them to do that kind of insane modelling on every car. It would take a lifetime.

 

[JDMKING13]

I was angry and sad at the start,I mean,when KY 1st mentioned 950cars and thought of Prologue,"they actually modelled 950interiors !",then the feb psm saying every car has interiors.if the standard cars have a decent interior (Im ok with lower,just not the psp type) Im fine with the 'standard' cars.still,having a seperation sucks.but judging by GT3-->GT4,I bet the second GT5 leaves PD,they'll start working on GT6.really,GT5 with 1000 intereriors is perfection... Its near perfection without,but still the best on the market.Im just not use to ever being underwhelmed with anything PD offers..its kinda hard to think the standard cars wont have interiors..

Bro it has not been confirmed we were not having cockpit i saw 2 sources stating we got cockpit for standard cars in the end we will just have wait and see. With all the grate new features i believe we will get some generic looking cockpits for the standard cars 👍

But sure they will be crap compared to premium cars, which will look absolutely incredible. But we can't expect them to do that kind of insane modelling on every car. It would take a lifetime.

And every other console racing game on the market

 

[Tornado]

I think the standard cars looking like those in GTHD is more likely than looking like the ones in GT5.

 

[Invictus321]

I think the standard cars looking like those in GTHD is more likely than looking like the ones in GT5.

I'd be completely happy with that

 

[JDMKING13]

I think the standard cars looking like those in GTHD is more likely than looking like the ones in GT5.

Yea i can agree (which still makes me happy) with you on that those GT5P cars are just premiums that will look better in GT5.

.

 

[Tornado]

I'd be fine with it too, for the most part (and if all 1000 cars had interiors I wouldn't care whether the cars were Standard or not). I'm just curious as to whether all of the Standard cars will be roughly the same quality. From what I've seen, I kinda have some doubts about that.

 

[KilzoneStrife]

I think the standard cars looking like those in GTHD is more likely than looking like the ones in GT5.

Well,I notice in the 'standard car' trailer,some cars look better than others..the muscle cars look ok.light bounces off the cars with few lines,so the reflections look weird on the paint.still..if they model interiors for standard cars I'll be happy.

 

[Invictus321]

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

PD always seem to keep things ambiguous, we all get angry because we think its going to turn out as the bad alternative, and then they reveal that it's actually the good alternative.

eg: Weather, Day/Night, Reverse Lights, Track Editor

So yeah, i pretty much believe that at gamescom Kaz will come out and say "Standard cars all have cockpit views" and we'll all be like "YAY" and buy the game

 

[gtracedriver]

Even that picture can't hold a candle to Shift's graphics, sorry. And whoever thinks that the standard cars are gonna somehow magically turn from last-gen to current-gen standards in the next 5 months before release (which will be mostly taken up by QA testing, final tweaks, and disk printing) is seriously misguided.

If only I had a dime for every time someone brought up the "dont buy the game" argument.



You're right, but I just have a nasty habit of fighting things to the death, in case you havent noticed . One of my weird character traits I suppose.

Shift has great gfx. But it has some 60cars only. The game runs at max 720P with 30fps. Why do you forget that

Right now it is too early to jump into conclusion from that standard video.

 

[KilzoneStrife]

Shift is a terrible game...not anywhere near GT's league.the cars handle terrible.I played GT3 and GT4 yesterday...had way more fun than Shift.,that motion blur to show speed in Shift looks stupid

 

[JDMKING13]

Shift is a terrible game...not anywhere near GT's league.the cars handle terrible.I played GT3 and GT4 yesterday...had way more fun than Shift.,that motion blur to show speed in Shift looks stupid

who cares about shift KING think it support his argument.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Find a new tune? Honestly not to be rude but you need to fine a new tune. I understand how upset you are about this standard car situation and you have the right to express your opinion however its been days now and your still crying about the same things. Not only that people who have accepted the fact we cannot not do nothing to change the game, but lets take all the good from the information we got and be happy, When i read your post toward people and GT your always bringing the game down and people feeling toward the game, Im sorry you cant look past even with those standard cars but to be real with you no other racing game for consoles is going to touch GT5 👍

I hope they don't get any ideas from GT5 and think it's good to fill out the majority of your car roster with outdated models from a generation previous.

I'm plenty excited at the new features. But this two-tier thing pisses me off because it screams laziness. PD decided on a level of quality for some car models, that while utterly amazing for a current gen, meant one car took months to finish. Then they realized that, oh crap, we want to be able to brag we have 1000 cars, but this method will delay the game even further. Instead of toning down the Premium level (say, a car then takes 4 weeks instead of 3 months), where we would've had a lot more cars, and they could all be treated equally in game, PD continues on making these hyper-realistic models and decides the majority of the game's roster can just be recycled from GT4.

No, Standard model cars don't hold a candle to many, many other car racing games in the current gen. They look like what they are: GTHD. Sorta like the opening movies of GT1 and GT2; you could tell the models were still based on the ones in game, but bumped up in quality for an FMV. These Standard cars range from 6 years to 9 years old now... a one-piece car model is WEAK on the graphics front these days. And looking past graphics, the fact that Standard cars get a fraction of the options available to Premium cars just makes the chasm that much bigger.

I believe this to be true. There is no way in hell that they will have anything in GT5 with PS2 graphics.

Heres how i see it:

Premium cars will be amazing, every single detail modelled, as we have seen.

Standard will have the exterior detail of a GT5: Prologue car, which is awesome. And they will have interior, but it will not be a true interior, just an approximate interior. For example, theres some stupid amount of different Nissan Skylines, so they will just have the same interior for all of them.

And the standard cars won't have the back seat, under the hood, suspension etc etc... all modelled. Like the GT website says, the standard models won't have panel detachment damage, so theres no need to model all the internals of the car. Just the cockpit part that you can see when you drive.

So standard cars probably won't be 'bad'. They will be just like gt5 prologue.

But sure they will be crap compared to premium cars, which will look absolutely incredible. But we can't expect them to do that kind of insane modelling on every car. It would take a lifetime.

That's a wonderful theory; it's too bad repeated images as evidence prove otherwise. The shapes of wheel arches, bases of windshields, and stickers on cars all point to Standards being GT4 models, and maybe have higher resolution textures. The reason they still look better in GT5 comes down to the PS3's improved shading and lighting abilities. That's it.
__________________________

The Standard cars look good for what they are; last-generation models taking advantage of current gen hardware. But they are not the front-runners on detail even on just this one console. The Premiums may be, but they're going to end up making up maybe 1/4 of the roster. Hopefully if PD reads these forums, they'll understand how disappointed a large chunk of their fans are with this, and GT6 will work towards one solid, reliable level of quality. Not a mixture of a new, high-quality product and a half-decade old tech demo.

 

[Invictus321]

Motion blur in NFS Shift is craaaaap

And anyways, 200 Premium cars is HEAPS of cars.

Its a stupid thing to say "Why not just leave out the 800 standard models, and just have consistent 200 cars", because then you're not gaining anything.

You could just NOT USE the standard cars if it matters that much to you. And ban people from using them in your online races

 

[kingcars]

I don't think anyone has said that yet.

The closest I can recall are a few posts where people want the Standard Cars replaced bit by bit with Premium DLC.

Huh? Just since that post of yours, someone mentions the idea...

I believe this to be true. There is no way in hell that they will have anything in GT5 with PS2 graphics.

Heres how i see it:

Premium cars will be amazing, every single detail modelled, as we have seen.

Standard will have the exterior detail of a GT5: Prologue car, which is awesome. And they will have interior, but it will not be a true interior, just an approximate interior. For example, theres some stupid amount of different Nissan Skylines, so they will just have the same interior for all of them.

And the standard cars won't have the back seat, under the hood, suspension etc etc... all modelled. Like the GT website says, the standard models won't have panel detachment damage, so theres no need to model all the internals of the car. Just the cockpit part that you can see when you drive.

So standard cars probably won't be 'bad'. They will be just like gt5 prologue.

But sure they will be crap compared to premium cars, which will look absolutely incredible. But we can't expect them to do that kind of insane modelling on every car. It would take a lifetime.

@ standard cars having GT5P detail. You do realize that all the cars in GT5P are premium quality, right? It's been proven through screenshots that standard models = GT4 models. Accept the fact. They're not gonna change much, if at all, in the final 5 months of development.

I take it you're kidding about the SHIFT graphics right?

I seriously hope that you're not trying to infer that GT5's standard cars hold a candle to NFS Shift's models.

Shift has great gfx. But it has some 60cars only. The game runs at max 720P with 30fps. Why do you forget that

At least they kept all 60 cars at acceptable, current gen quality. They didn't port 40 of them from Need For Speed High Stakes. Resolution and framerate has nothing to do with the car models, fyi. NFS Shift's car models blow away GT5's standard models, period.

I agree about the crappy motion blur in shift, but, once again, that has no bearing whatsoever on the car models.

 

[Invictus321]

it would be pretty funny if PD come on here and read this, and then decide to remove the standard models completely

 

[kingcars]

it would be pretty funny if PD come on here and read this, and then decide to remove the standard models completely

It honestly wouldn't hurt my feelings if they did. I'm not one of those screaming to get rid of them...I'll drive them if they're in the game and hope that the races are separated between standard and premium...but if the standards were simply removed, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

 

[Tornado]

You do realize that all the cars in GT5P are premium quality, right? It's been proven through screenshots that standard models = GT4 models.

I dunno about that. They seem quite a bit better than they looked in GT4 from what I've seen. Particularly in regards to textures and reflections. On the other hand, the GT3 carryovers that I've seen look exactly like they did in GT4, which seems to prove Famine's statement earlier in the thread.

 

[kingcars]

I dunno about that. They seem quite a bit better than they looked in GT4 from what I've seen. Particularly in regards to textures and reflections. On the other hand, the GT3 carryovers that I've seen look exactly like they did in GT4, which seems to prove Famine's statement earlier in the thread.

Reflections and lighting (and resolution) are a product of the better graphics engine, not the actual car models. The textures are MARGINALLY better, at most. The models themselves are practically untouched. There isn't a single model shown in the video that has any vast improvement over the GT4 model. And I'm talking about the actual models, not the reflections or lighting of the graphics engine.

Example: The shot at the beginning, with the Audi LMP...the nose still looks just as blocky as it did in GT4. And that wasn't a GT3 car.

 

[gtracedriver]

You can't be serious ????? At 30fps you can add more details.

GT5, only replays run at 30fp because they add special effects like, depth of feild, motion blur(not ugly blur of shift) and other things to make it look better than real life

 

[kingcars]

You can't be serious ????? At 30fps you can add more details.

And on PS3, you can do a WHOLE LOT BETTER than 4,000 polygon car models (which is what GT4 models had, fyi).

The actual car models in Shift are insanely better than GT5's standard cars, 30fps or not. 30fps is referring to how quickly the graphics engine can render the ingame assets, not how well the cars are actually modeled.

Waaaaaay to many people on here confuse graphics engine quality for car model quality. It's a shame that very few people realize that the 2 are independent. Put an NFS Shift car model in GT5's graphics engine, and it'll look 45,000,000 times better than a standard GT5 model.

 

[Tornado]

I dunno. The Standard cars originally debuting in GT4 seem to look a lot better in GT5 than the Standard cars that were originally from GT3 (they did look better in GT4, but the difference wasn't as vast). Fair enough about reflections, but I'm not seeing as many jagged textures or texture dots in the GT5 versions of the GT4 cars as I did when those cars were in GT4.

Keep in mind that I'm not saying that the Standard cars actually look particularly good. Just that they seem to be improved somewhat notably over GT4.