Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Spagetti69]

DanOh, how's the Yaris mate lol.

 

[Scaff]

- it's not confirmed but black windows and Kaz asking via twitter if we want black frame cockpit suggest it.

And other comments from people who asked PD staff at E3 suggest that they may have interiors.

Currently we do not know.

- - prologue cars are premium.

Do you have a link to back that up, if not please do not post it as fact.

- - they drive the same but you can't drive them in the same way cause you're forced to use a different view than cockpit and this ruin the simulation experience. (if there is no cockpit)

Once again this is speculation and only actually applies if you want to use the cockpit view. Many people prefer a bumper cam, hood cam or even outside view, for them it will make no difference at all.

The main point here however is that we simply do not know any of this for sure, so please be careful when posting as you are getting rather close to stating some of it as if it were a fact.


Scaff

 

[James2097]

Damn, and I was hoping the cars in the final game would look a bit better than in prologue, which came out ages ago. One might be forgiven to think GT5 would be superior in every way to prologue assets etc?

Especially with comments from Kaz such as 'GT5 will be "totally different" to 'Prologue'. At the time, I thought he inferred it would be quite a bit better, not merely 'different' in a possibly negative way.

 

[Smoothherb]

Thanks for cleaning that up.
So, it is like always we don´t know for sure lol.
GT5 the real Zen simulation...be patient!

 

[KilzoneStrife]

You are quite right, FM3 is just FM2 with improved graphics and physics (tyre flex, interiors, improved tuning etc). However, I dont have an issue with that because its the same console, the same technology generation and only took 3 years to produce - I didnt expect a massive leap, more a refinement - which is what most FM3 players (including me) acknowledge the game as.

But GT5 from GT4 is a totally new console - which was/is spectacularly expensive - hugely hyped with totally huge new storage media, and supposedly totally amazing and staggering in every respect. I don't think you could call GT5's progression from GT4 to be staggering while keeping a straight face, its just not enough given the amount of blarb thats been banded around - both from Sony and PD.

The over ruling factor here though is that all of this of course is just hearsay, as until the game is out - none of us really know what is and isnt in the game, how good it is and if there are other factors about it that make those niggles just disappear (just as GT4 was for me).

I guess my real issue is that I just find the whole premium thing to be a nicely dressed way of saying "These are the cars we could be bothered with!", the rest of them are just half done.

I've never been disappointed with ANY GT game yet (and I have them all, concepts and prologues included, upto but not including anything PS3), but GT5 is leaving me underwhelmed. I hope the reality is far better

Dude,Actually Forza1 models were upscaled for Forza 2.and Forza 2 was upscaled for Forza3.the majority of the new cars in Forza 3 was captured with data and built by companies contracted by Turn 10 and microsoft.this is why many many cars that have design problems in Forza1 still do in Forza3. Check their forums.Skylines R32,R33 etc.to flat,fat etc

 

[Scotracer]

I have indeed heard all of that. This thread is about standard/premium cars specifically, so funnily enough I've been focussing on the topic at hand.

I'll weigh up features as to my personal interest in them, might help.

Weather/day to night shifts: cool. But not a deal breaker for me either way.

Go karting: only cool if we get to design the tracks. Go kart physics isn't very interesting as they don't have suspension... Kinda like mini F1 cars you can drive flat out most of the time (from my experience driving them anyway). Not that interesting to me. But cool if its in. They're a side dish, not a deal breaker either way.

Premium models: Super important. I've been arguing for better car models as long as all cars can be consistent. I'd rather 250 or 300 premium cars even without all the GT4 cars.

Track editor: Fantastic if it's in. A good implementation would add years to the game, especially if custom tracks work online/in multiplayer. But my feelings are it will be quite limited in scope, and far less exciting than we all hope. Therefore not a deal breaker as I'm not expecting it to be particularly powerful. More likely a curiosity, but cool. I highly doubt we'll be able to create Mount Panorama Bathurst etc...
If this feature was really that powerful or close enough to do interesting tracks, I have mentioned I'd forgive the standard cars.
NASCAR/WRC: I don't need NASCAR at all, only if PD can truly reproduce the great crashes. WRC is a moot point, GT has always included some form of rally since GT2. So not a deal breaker.

Yes, there's a lot of features. But by far and away the most important when it comes to everyone's initial impression of the game will be: "WHOO NEW GT IS FINALLY OUT! HOW SEXY DO THE CARS LOOK ON PS3? Oh... mostly like GT4. Crap".

Subsequently, a lot of folks won't give the rest of the game a chance. Graphics are very important in a new GT release. To deny the issue is far more delusional.

My pun might've slipped past you - I want a "higher standard". As in the "standard" cars should be better than they are. Wasn't referring to the other features, which to me aren't deal breakers one way or the other.

Just no. I imagine you've only driven the hire-karts at tracks? I own a 100cc racing kart and it's one of the scariest things I've ever driven; no road car comes close to its performance and you definitely can't take corners flat out. The thing does over 100mph for crying out loud.

 

[blaktek]

I suppose the next link isn't news anymore, but here it comes.

http://igamereport.com/2010/06/23/official-all-cars-in-gt5-will-have-interior-views/

 

[James2097]

Just no. I imagine you've only driven the hire-karts at tracks? I own a 100cc racing kart and it's one of the scariest things I've ever driven; no road car comes close to its performance and you definitely can't take corners flat out. The thing does over 100mph for crying out loud.

I know of the faster ones - and yes very scary. We're lucky you're still with us. But we have no idea what the karts in GT5 will consist of, or what their use in the game will be (a total guess, but I'd be edging closer to them being used for learning racing basics in a driving school situation than high-power death-machine karts... no idea though).

But do you think GT5 will accurately represent the scariness of open-wheel driving? When translated into the game, my money is still on karts feeling simplistic/less interesting in comparison to cars with suspension, and the vulnerability/scariness of open-wheel racing will not be apparent, simply because it is a game.

Edit:
A lot of my assumptions are based on how much more involving the handling was, how much more enjoyable to drive the road cars were in past GT titles compared to the F1 cars. Despite the F1s being much faster. I'm worried karts in a Gran Turismo context might translate to a similar feeling, but just slower!

 

[tsuchiya]

I suppose the next link isn't news anymore, but here it comes.

http://igamereport.com/2010/06/23/official-all-cars-in-gt5-will-have-interior-views/

If he is making this up to get clicks (which I´m 99% sure it´s the case) I hope he burns in hell.

 

[bullie77]

I suppose the next link isn't news anymore, but here it comes.

http://igamereport.com/2010/06/23/official-all-cars-in-gt5-will-have-interior-views/

Something doesn't make sense...

The author of the article starts by saying that:

In recent times there has been much speculation to whether GT5 will have cockpit views for 800 of it's cars. Well I can confirm that it will indeed have views for all of it's cars.

When I contacted PD for an official statement they sent a rather generic reply back, but with info tucked away inside.

Then, further on, he actually quotes the (supposedly) email he get from PD:

“Standard cars do indeed have a cockpit/dashboard view, just not nearly as detailed as the premium cars. The existing cars are not just being copied; they are all being generated properly to create authentic experiences from car to car.”

Now, this last bit isn't what one would call as a "generic answer", but rather than a quite precise information from a (supposedly) official source - see underline part. So, why the initial statement that all he was getting was a "generic reply back, but with info tucked away inside" (as indirectly reference)?

I'll take it with a pint of salt for the moment...

 

[tsuchiya]

If you copy the phrase "Standard cars do indeed have a cockpit/dashboard view, just not nearly as detailed as the premium cars" and google it, you get to a thread in this same forum where a user sent that exact question to kotaku.

fake.

REMOVED BY MOD -don't throw allegations around you can't back up - potential flamebait is not needed.

 

[kr4usy]

@bullie77

I too am cautious about this reply, as it could just be an attempt to get more exposure as I've already seen a link to it via Maxconsole.net.

But generic doesnt also mean ambiguous/vague, it could just be a 'standard response' type reply ie how you could ask a question and get a 'no comment' or a 'we do not respond to rumors' they are less personal and more generic..

Andrew

 

[AERO_HDT]

come on mate at least do some research before posting!!

Ive done my research Tizz, every screenshot I've come across appears to be either 18mg photomode or footage of Premium cars. Admittedly this may not be anything like what we're expecting of "standard" cars, but I honestly suspect that we have not seen a standard car in any footage released by PD and that everything we've seen has been only of Premium quality.

Kazunori would be laughed off the face of the planet (GT Planet included) if he released a game with GT4 graphics as featured in Bullie's post. No disrespect Bullie, but do you honestly think that we've waited 6 years for an upscaled version of GT4?

May I ask the source of your photo? I have not seen it anywhere yet, despite my "research".

👍

 

[G.T.Ace]

It's on the official GT5 page, you also might want to check out the Standard Car trailer there. Yes, your research was bad.

 

[Captain Roh]

When talking about the possibilities of cockpit view, It really gets on my nerves when people say 'i only use chase cam so whatever not bothered', or 'most people use bumper cam so whatever not bothered'.

Why cant people just take a step back, ignore all the facts and all the speculation, and just ask themselves this very simple question:

'Would Kazunori Yamauchi be satisfied, with a game that forced you to switch views between cars disregarding the fans personal preference?'

In my opinion the answer is no. A premium car as opposed to a standard car is purely an asthetic thing, the actual view in which you play the game is probably the most important factor in any racing game. Why put in the option when you can only use it 20% of the time!? It makes no sense, but thats just my opinion.

 

[Hubbe]

I suppose the next link isn't news anymore, but here it comes.

http://igamereport.com/2010/06/23/official-all-cars-in-gt5-will-have-interior-views/

God I hope this isn't some bullcrap made-up story...

 

[AERO_HDT]

By this very same token, a picture was also posted of a low-resolution selection of "premium" cars with exactly the same definition except you could see a dashboard and a steering wheel.

Come on, if I was to take the below image as representative of quality, even the Premium cars would be substandard to anything we've seen before.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Have you watched the trailer?
The standard cars (3D models) are direct ports from GTPSP/GT4.

 

[bullie77]

@bullie77

I too am cautious about this reply, as it could just be an attempt to get more exposure as I've already seen a link to it via Maxconsole.net.

But generic doesnt also mean ambiguous/vague, it could just be a 'standard response' type reply ie how you could ask a question and get a 'no comment' or a 'we do not respond to rumors' they are less personal and more generic..

Andrew

Yes, generic can also have the meaning you mention. However, the response the author quotes in the article is pretty straight - doesn´t fit in my opinion in a standard response neither a vague one.

Ive done my research Tizz, every screenshot I've come across appears to be either 18mg photomode or footage of Premium cars. Admittedly this may not be anything like what we're expecting of "standard" cars, but I honestly suspect that we have not seen a standard car in any footage released by PD and that everything we've seen has been only of Premium quality.

Kazunori would be laughed off the face of the planet (GT Planet included) if he released a game with GT4 graphics as featured in Bullie's post. No disrespect Bullie, but do you honestly think that we've waited 6 years for an upscaled version of GT4?

May I ask the source of your photo? I have not seen it anywhere yet, despite my "research".

👍

As I say in my post, the source is www.gran-turismo.com. More "official" than that is, somewhat hard to find I'm sure.

It's on the official GT5 page, you also might want to check out the Standard Car trailer there.

Curiosly enough, the video isn't available anymore in the gran-turismo.com page. I wonder why?... (Speculation, speculation...)

Why cant people just take a step back, ignore all the facts and all the speculation, and just ask themselves this very simple question:

'Would Kazunori Yamauchi be satisfied, with a game that forced you to switch views between cars disregarding the fans personal preference?'

In my opinion the answer is no. A premium car as opposed to a standard car is purely an asthetic thing, the actual view in which you play the game is probably the most important factor in any racing game. Why put in the option when you can only use it 20% of the time!? It makes no sense, but thats just my opinion.

Accordingly to my theory, I also do believe that this wasn't PD's intention from the beginning. I believe that the project they intended to do was so huge that they were pressured to finish it after all these years. Some short-cuts have to be taken and this is likely one of them.

 

[G.T.Ace]

 

[AERO_HDT]

It does not exist anymore. Anybody know any particular reason why it was removed?

PD have removed stacks of footage over the last twelve months that has not been representative of the final product.

Excellent, thanks for the link Ace....

I do however find the quality extremely poor. Very disappointing if this is PD's representation of GT5.

If this is indeed their standard car definition, then I am gutted.

 

[G.T.Ace]

See my post on the last page.

 

[AERO_HDT]

Aye, I have indeed seen it.

And if this is their idea of "standard" then I would prefer that they left out all 800 cars and gave us Premiums only.

If 800 cars are going to be like that, then I think it's pathetic.

👎

 

[unit-one]

Have you watched the trailer?
The standard cars (3D models) are direct ports from GTPSP/GT4.

I have watched the trailer on my PS3 that is connected to 37" TV. I found something interesting. Every Standard car has a visible driver inside. He even moves his head. Driver model seems the same as in Premium models. You can clearly see the driver in Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Speciale, Alpine A110 1600S and Lancia Stratos.

The photo is kinda blurry...


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[G.T.Ace]

Good spot, but placing a driver model inside of the cars doesn't change anything unfortunately. Since there aren't performance issues, they might just use GT5 drivers instead of silhouettes/GT4 convertible drivers.

 

[analog]

Quote from igamereport.com: "Standard cars do indeed have a cockpit/dashboard view, just not nearly as detailed as the premium cars. The existing cars are not just being copied; they are all being generated properly to create authentic experiences from car to car."

Like bullie77 said, it's better to take anything with a pinch of salt at this stage ( even track-editor if you asked me ) as false hope at this stage is probably even worse than facing the disappointment many ( me included ) understandably have.
Oh, and ofcourse I'm just preaching to the converted, anyone not being persuaded already to use cockpit view only by Prologue isn't going to be disappointed or even slightly worried by its possible absence.

One thing I did notice ( although again perhaps meaningless and not wanting to create false hope ), watching those videos of Premium cars in cockpit view, is the fact they had multiple camera ( NASCAR shot in E3 trailer for example ) viewpoints and the fact those replays were even possible to be watched from within interior/cockpit view as opposed to Prologue ( and from multiple viewpoints, watching the driver for example ).

Also on the official GT5 page you find a fully rendered interior of a Premium 370Z and I don't recall ever seeing fully rendered shots of an entire interior in Prologue ( not just dashboard or seats seperately, but one shot capturing the entire interior ) but if you can prove me wrong please do.
In Prologue's cockpit view you have basically only 4 viewpoints, looking ahead/back/left/right and the only screenshots I've ever seen from the interiors in Prologue are either from one of those viewpoints as opposed to all the possibilities we've seen so far ( including that official full interior shot ) in those Premium gameplay/replay videos.

What does it imply? Perhaps those cars in Prologue could be Standard or at least the Prologue interiors being more limited ( at least regarding viewpoints )than those new Premium ones are.
Could mean nothing at all ofcourse, but it's still odd that Premium seems to offer even more possibilities than Prologue and Standard less.
But that's probably what triggered this debate in the first place..

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Just so I can clarify; I've never doubted we'll get interior/cockpit view for every car in the game. I'm fully expecting the Standard cars to get a setup very similar to GTPSP, but still, I suppose technically that is an interior. I really don't understand how some people have it in their heads that the cockpit view would be off-limits completely for the majority of the cars.

My issue has always been with the two tiers of quality. I'm also really, really surprised that people can say, with a straight face, that GT4 Standard models look better than most of this generation's other racing game's car models. Premium? Absolutely. But Standard looks as old as they actually are.

...it's a bit saddening that the R8 LMS car is going to be Standard, while the street R8 is Premium

 

[dan0h]

Amen dude, thats the size of this - its just a lack of detail and dedication that I never expected from KY.

 

[eSZee]

Just so I can clarify; I've never doubted we'll get interior/cockpit view for every car in the game. I'm fully expecting the Standard cars to get a setup very similar to GTPSP, but still, I suppose technically that is an interior. I really don't understand how some people have it in their heads that the cockpit view would be off-limits completely for the majority of the cars.

My issue has always been with the two tiers of quality. I'm also really, really surprised that people can say, with a straight face, that GT4 Standard models look better than most of this generation's other racing game's car models. Premium? Absolutely. But Standard looks as old as they actually are.

...it's a bit saddening that the R8 LMS car is going to be Standard, while the street R8 is Premium

You don't understand how? The fact that sources said we wouldn't. We still have no credible source that says otherwise, do we?

 

[AleksandarSRB]

Official: All Cars In GT5 Will Have Interior Views
http://igamereport.com/2010/06/23/official-all-cars-in-gt5-will-have-interior-views/