Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[G.T.Ace]

no and personally I will only trust:

Sony's web page(any language)
Gran turismo web page
kotaku
gamespot
or any tweets from KY

ign(maybe but they are like own by Microsoft so not so trustable)

I just hope that kotaku English get an answer from PD or Sony

http://kotaku.com/5568886/gran-turismo-5-weather-go+karting-and-track-editor-confirmed

You should delete Kotaku from that list.
They often posted rumors as news in the past and faked screenshots from multiplatform games so one version looks worse (like IGN did too btw.).

 

[Stratosphere03]

no and personally I will only trust:

Sony's web page(any language)
Gran turismo web page
kotaku
gamespot
or any tweets from KY

ign(maybe but they are like own by Microsoft so not so trustable)

I just hope that kotaku English get an answer from PD or Sony

http://kotaku.com/5568886/gran-turismo-5-weather-go+karting-and-track-editor-confirmed

At this point I'd say the only reliable source are my eyes.

 

[shawtyoner]

Yo know, at first I was disappointed too, but then you step back and realize what PD did here. They recreated 200 cars from the ground up with the most superb detail. At this point they could have called it quits and shipped the game with just 200 cars, something similar with what they did with GT3. But they opted to up rate every other car GT produced and added them in for our driving pleasure.

People might consider this half assed, but its not. PD have improved every other aspect of the game, and even more than we probably have even seen yet. When you finally understand the amount of time it takes to create these cars at this level, it makes sense that they could only do this many, while dedicating time to other aspects of the game.

Thank you PD, for NOT releasing the game with just 200 cars, because now we can experience the new car models the way you intended us to, but also enjoy our favorites from the past. And one day, they will ALL be at this level.

 

[paulpg87]

Great information here, but is that information reliable?

i don't know, they've just reported igamereport news.

 

[paulpg87]

Yo know, at first I was disappointed too, but then you step back and realize what PD did here. They recreated 200 cars from the ground up with the most superb detail. At this point they could have called it quits and shipped the game with just 200 cars, something similar with what they did with GT3. But they opted to up rate every other car GT produced and added them in for our driving pleasure.

People might consider this half assed, but its not. PD have improved every other aspect of the game, and even more than we probably have even seen yet. When you finally understand the amount of time it takes to create these cars at this level, it makes sense that they could only do this many, while dedicating time to other aspects of the game.

Thank you PD, for NOT releasing the game with just 200 cars, because now we can experience the new car models the way you intended us to, but also enjoy our favorites from the past. And one day, they will ALL be at this level.

yes.. but there is no sense in making the bolt under the exhaust pipe of a Suzuki Capuccino and then leave the Lamborghini Countach with black window and a generic cockpit.

 

[Wools]

I'm very disappointed that the majority of the Car line up will be up scaled versions from GT4.

From GT1 to GT4, I'm normally with Polyphony over their design choices. During those games, they said that damage could not be implemented due to the time it would take to model the hundreds of cars they already had. Damage always results in the end of your race so I was always happy to let that slide. Other users had issues with the simple AI in Gran Turismo, but as I always enjoyed GT most in time trial, I could let that go as well.

We're now at a point in games development where it takes months to render cars at the level that Polyphony strive for, that it seriously limits how quick cars are produced. I completely understand this and if it was announced over 200 cars would be in the game I would have little problem with the fact it "only" has 200 cars! However, as they've now made the split, they've made the distinction between classes of cars.

Whatever way you look at it, there's a dramatic difference between premium and standard. When that means I can't play on board, the aesthetic looks lesser and the cars show damage differently, I can't see myself ever driving the standard cars.

I have little issue with this and can see the difficulties Polyphony have encountered, but knowing some of my favourites won't be rendered to their full quality, it's really disappointing.

 

[ferrari4619]

All this no interior business is just a misinterpritation that has spread hugely.

this is stuff from the gran turismo forum with links

celiboy wrote:

I just got this from n4g website:

http://igamereport.com/2010/06/23/official-all-cars-in-gt5-will-have-interior-views/



Apparently its from a reply to a mail from PD:

“Standard cars do indeed have a cockpit/dashboard view, just not nearly as detailed as the premium cars. The existing cars are not just being copied; they are all being generated properly to create authentic experiences from car to car.”



If this is true then this is good news!!



It seems the misinterperetation was widespread.

Here is further confirmation.

http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/7317.html

 

[G.T.Ace]

This was now posted 200000000000 times and your further confirmation just quotes that website.

 

[Paolosev91]

All this no interior business is just a misinterpritation that has spread hugely.

this is stuff from the gran turismo forum with links

celiboy wrote:

I just got this from n4g website:

http://igamereport.com/2010/06/23/official-all-cars-in-gt5-will-have-interior-views/



Apparently its from a reply to a mail from PD:

“Standard cars do indeed have a cockpit/dashboard view, just not nearly as detailed as the premium cars. The existing cars are not just being copied; they are all being generated properly to create authentic experiences from car to car.”



If this is true then this is good news!!



It seems the misinterperetation was widespread.

Here is further confirmation.

http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/7317.html

that cannot be called "confirmation", psxextreme and next.videogame.it didn't have any new source apart from igamereport.com
we need an other different source!!!!!

 

[AERO_HDT]

Thank you PD, for NOT releasing the game with just 200 cars, because now we can experience the new car models the way you intended us to, but also enjoy our favorites from the past. And one day, they will ALL be at this level.

I partially agree with your post because I believe that more is "more". When is more ever better than "less"?

More is only ever better than less when "more" has been done before. And in this case sadly, the "more" part has been done.

6 years ago.

This means that 80 percent of GT5 is evolutionary, and not revolutionary. I am disappointed to wait 6 years of my life for a game that will merely be GT4 in high definition, with some scratches and dust thrown in, with online mode (which really should have been a part of the standard GT4 release to begin with) and a couple of new tracks.

Yet, I still hold hope. I am not expecting GT5 to be 20 percent beyond what current gen consoles can manage. I'm expecting 100 percent of the game to be beyond what anyone else has managed.

After all, please tell of a time when Gran Turismo has delivered any less.

GT1 blew every racing sim out of the water.

GT2 topped it with 600 cars.

GT3 gave us the most beautifully rendered graphics to date.

GT4 upped that to a staggering 700 cars. A feat that has never been repeated save by a lousy PSP.

In my opinion even GT5 Prologue has not been surpassed. Not in graphics, not in physics and certainly not as a demo. Even the PSP shows small details of physics that you would not see in an XBOX360. Take a look at a Honda NSX Type R away from the line. Follow the car for a whole lap in a PSP and tell me that a Microsoft-engineered product gives you the same depth of realism in a 360.

I can't even get the same feel from a Dodge Charger in Forza 3 than I can in GT4. And before you start sputtering into your XBOX moustache, let me call upon all the guys out there who feel the same.

I own an XBOX and I play Forza 1, 2, and 3 and I own every NFS title to date across multiple platforms.

I play GTR, GTR2, and Race.

I have been playing racing sims since the days of Continental Circus. That by no means makes me a pro, but let me tell you I've been around racing sims. Geoff Crammond, GP legends, GT, GTR, NFS, you name it.

Gran Turismo is a way of life for me and I (perhaps foolishly) refuse to believe that Kazunori or anyone in the PD team would deliver a substandard product to the gaming public. If it took until 2011 to deliver it...

Yeah, I could live with that.

 

[JDMKING13]

I partially agree with your post because I believe that more is "more". When is more ever better than "less"?

More is only ever better than less when "more" has been done before. And in this case sadly, the "more" part has been done.

6 years ago.

This means that 80 percent of GT5 is evolutionary, and not revolutionary. I am disappointed to wait 6 years of my life for a game that will merely be GT4 in high definition, with some scratches and dust thrown in, with online mode (which really should have been a part of the standard GT4 release to begin with) and a couple of new tracks.

Yet, I still hold hope. I am not expecting GT5 to be 20 percent beyond what current gen consoles can manage. I'm expecting 100 percent of the game to be beyond what anyone else has managed.

After all, please tell of a time when Gran Turismo has delivered any less.

GT1 blew every racing sim out of the water.

GT2 topped it with 600 cars.

GT3 gave us the most beautifully rendered graphics to date.

GT4 upped that to a staggering 700 cars. A feat that has never been repeated save by a lousy PSP.

In my opinion even GT5 Prologue has not been surpassed. Not in graphics, not in physics and certainly not as a demo. Even the PSP shows small details of physics that you would not see in an XBOX360. Take a look at a Honda NSX Type R away from the line. Follow the car for a whole lap in a PSP and tell me that a Microsoft-engineered product gives you the same depth of realism in a 360.

I can't even get the same feel from a Dodge Charger in Forza 3 than I can in GT4. And before you start sputtering into your XBOX moustache, let me call upon all the guys out there who feel the same.

I own an XBOX and I play Forza 1, 2, and 3 and I own every NFS title to date across multiple platforms.

I play GTR, GTR2, and Race.

I have been playing racing sims since the days of Continental Circus. That by no means makes me a pro, but let me tell you I've been around racing sims. Geoff Crammond, GP legends, GT, GTR, NFS, you name it.

Gran Turismo is a way of life for me and I (perhaps foolishly) refuse to believe that Kazunori or anyone in the PD team would deliver a substandard product to the gaming public. If it took until 2011 to deliver it...

Yeah, I could live with that.

Yea bro i def agree with you on this i was so damed pumped for Forza3 until i played the game. The cars feel so damn just like in forza2, its still a ok game though 👍

 

[AERO_HDT]

Yes. Forza 3 isn't bad. It's actually very good. But it isn't Gran Turismo. Even Forza 50 won't be a Gran Turismo. Let's stop comparing apples with lemons. Let's stop comparing NFS(WTFBRO)SHIFT with GT5.




I'm a fan. I don't give a schite. I respect NFS and Forza because it's games like this that push GT to new levels. Without Forza, without NFS...

PD might have given us GT4HD.

Competition is what it's all about.

 

[Antti-san]

THANK YOU.

You have just explained why I sometimes hate the GT fandom, even though I love the game; they critisize other games like Forza for lacking some things, and then forgive GT when it posseses the same missing feature.

It's jaw-dropping.

Too true!

Oh, and even though I have mostly gotten over my disappointment with the standard/premium thingy, I'm still baffled that PD chose to go that route.👎

 

[shawtyoner]

yes.. but there is no sense in making the bolt under the exhaust pipe of a Suzuki Capuccino and then leave the Lamborghini Countach with black window and a generic cockpit.

Car choice is a completely different matter. Some may appreciate it, some may not. Again, this games roots are in Japan, so a Cappuccino there means more than it does in EU or NA.

 

[CodeRedR51]

This means that 80 percent of GT5 is evolutionary, and not revolutionary. I am disappointed to wait 6 years of my life for a game that will merely be GT4 in high definition, with some scratches and dust thrown in, with online mode (which really should have been a part of the standard GT4 release to begin with) and a couple of new tracks.

I'm sorry but I don't think that's entirely correct.

 

[JAGUAR1977]

This means that 80 percent of GT5 is evolutionary, and not revolutionary.

To a degree all sim driving games can only ever be evolutionary.

Although the cars are the stars they are only as interesting as the game structure allows.

I am quite happy to lose 100 cars for each major feature in GT5.

GT5P proved how quickly even 60 or so cars can become boring if tracks and features are limited.

Most initially try out as many cars as possible but ultimately you settle on a relatively small garage of favourites.

It's at this stage GT5's open and feature rich game structure will come into it's own.

 

[gtracedriver]

Wrooooooooooooong. A 150,000 polygon car model with good textures is still a 150,000 polygon car model with good textures, no matter what the framerate or graphics engine is like. It could be a silky smooth 60fps or it could be a 2fps slideshow; the car model quality WILL NOT CHANGE. The car models are completely independent; it is up to the graphics engine to render them quickly, and that is NOT the discussion at hand (and if GT5s premium cars can run at 60fps, Shift's models wouldn't have any problem doing so in a better engine). We're talking about car model quality, not graphics engines. Does anybody else here actually understand how 3D models and graphics engines work? This is getting old, having to explain to everyone the difference.



There's only 5 months left. The main development is basically over. The game still has to go through many weeks of QA testing and bug tweaking. Little or nothing will be done to the models.

I am sorry but your nfs shift comparison makes no sense at all. You just can't pinpoint one thing and make comparison. Their 60 odd cars is no where near 200+ premium models. If you look at the big picture. GT5 standard models will be more than handy to compare against other games. Also keep in mind that they are expected to be 16 of them in a race, running at 60fps on GT5 engine.

We will see how the standard models look on release. But you seems to have already made up your mind so

According to igamereport all cars will have interior. I am sure it will end like this. Let us wait and see

 

[bullie77]

I'm very disappointed that the majority of the Car line up will be up scaled versions from GT4.

From GT1 to GT4, I'm normally with Polyphony over their design choices. During those games, they said that damage could not be implemented due to the time it would take to model the hundreds of cars they already had. Damage always results in the end of your race so I was always happy to let that slide. Other users had issues with the simple AI in Gran Turismo, but as I always enjoyed GT most in time trial, I could let that go as well.

We're now at a point in games development where it takes months to render cars at the level that Polyphony strive for, that it seriously limits how quick cars are produced. I completely understand this and if it was announced over 200 cars would be in the game I would have little problem with the fact it "only" has 200 cars! However, as they've now made the split, they've made the distinction between classes of cars.

Whatever way you look at it, there's a dramatic difference between premium and standard. When that means I can't play on board, the aesthetic looks lesser and the cars show damage differently, I can't see myself ever driving the standard cars.

I have little issue with this and can see the difficulties Polyphony have encountered, but knowing some of my favourites won't be rendered to their full quality, it's really disappointing.

.

Nicely put. Specially the bold part:tup:

I partially agree with your post because I believe that more is "more". When is more ever better than "less"?

The problem is that the "more" in this situation comes with "low" in terms of overall quality. This is the issue. For the first time in the history of the series, cars will be considered differently. Treated differently and different features.

For the first time in the history of the series it seems that "quantity" ("more") has overcome the "quality". When it has been the other way around or matched together (quantity in equal quality).

 

[Meinbeast]

This site needs a serious change. Are all of you guys 10 years old, this bitching and moaning that only 20% of GT5 is worth playing is just down right annoying now.

I don't post much at all but have been a frequent reader and this site is just going down the ******* with all these people coming on and bitching about stuff. I think there needs to be more moderators and all the posts that do no good should be removed and if they keep it up they should get a short ban.

If GT5 is so bad why don't you make a better game yourself if all this stuff is so damn easy to make. (800 cars with interiors, skidmarks, ect...) Yeah that wont take long at all......end rant

 

[Skidmark]

that cannot be called "confirmation", psxextreme and next.videogame.it didn't have any new source apart from igamereport.com
we need an other different source!!!!!

I bet if this article had been in the negative sense and this supposed PD reply had confirmed NO cockpit everyone would have been going nuts.

It seems that most of the negative people on here have already made their mind up on the very same basis they are so ready to dismiss. Non official news.

Everyone is saying " I need to hear if from an official source " but we haven't had an official source to confirm there are NO cockpits either.

PD have never promised anything regarding cockpits.

 

[Spagetti69]

I can't program, but I would outsource If I had the money.

Is it only ok to post nice things about the game.
I would go as far as to say that even people who moan( myself Inc).
Have a right to free speech.

 

[Nero9]

I agree with MainBeast.
It would be nice to see all 1000 cars have over 200.000 polies and all, but...beggars can't be choosers.
If you are complaining, make a 200.000+ poly car with interior,etc yourself! and send it to PD, see what they think.

Well i'm not sending THIS to PD...

These are the first cars i have EVER successfully modeled.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

This site needs a serious change. Are all of you guys 10 years old, this bitching and moaning that only 20% of GT5 is worth playing is just down right annoying now.

I don't post much at all but have been a frequent reader and this site is just going down the ******* with all these people coming on and bitching about stuff. I think there needs to be more moderators and all the posts that do no good should be removed and if they keep it up they should get a short ban.

If GT5 is so bad why don't you make a better game yourself if all this stuff is so damn easy to make. (800 cars with interiors, skidmarks, ect...) Yeah that wont take long at all......end rant

So by your logic I can never, ever say anything critical of a crappy movie? Just because I haven't made my own doesn't make Transformers 2 any better. It's still one giant steaming pile.

The idea of heavily moderated community where only positive things can be spoken is a terrible idea. The world is not all fluffy kittens and rainbows, people who are happy with what they're getting from the game have just as much right to say as such as the people who are critical of it. I shudder to think what your daily life must be if you believe critical thinking should be censored.

 

[AERO_HDT]

.

Nicely put. Specially the bold part:tup:



The problem is that the "more" in this situation comes with "low" in terms of overall quality. This is the issue. For the first time in the history of the series, cars will be considered differently. Treated differently and different features.

For the first time in the history of the series it seems that "quantity" ("more") has overcome the "quality". When it has been the other way around or matched together (quantity in equal quality).

And I agree with you mate. For the first time in the series, there is a distinct differential between standard and premium. And this cuts me so deep because as wise as I want to think I am, the fact of the matter is.... Premium is all that's going to matter to me.

DILLIFAF if I'm buying a hi-res version of GT4?!

Hell no.

DILLIGAF if I'm buying a hi-res version of the best that GT5 can offer?

Some of you people need to wake up and smell the salt.

 

[kingcars]

I am sorry but your nfs shift comparison makes no sense at all. You just can't pinpoint one thing and make comparison.

Um, actually I can. Because the argument FROM THE BEGINNING has been that the standard cars are NOT up to par with today's graphical standards. If you compare the ACTUAL 3D MODEL of an NFS Shift car to the ACTUAL 3D model of a GT5 standard car, there is no comparison. The GT5 standard models are total crap compared to other racing games. The GT5 graphics engine polishes them up slightly (NOT to be confused with actual model enhancement), but that's far from being able to cover up the lack of detail.

Their 60 odd cars is no where near 200+ premium models. If you look at the big picture.

I have no idea what this has to do with standard car quality vs NFS Shift car model quality. Oh, right, it has NOTHING to do with it! (and for the record, they didn't take 4-6 years to make Shift either)

GT5 standard models will be more than handy to compare against other games. Also keep in mind that they are expected to be 16 of them in a race, running at 60fps on GT5 engine.

The premiums run fine at 60fps with 16 car fields on GT5P, it's a no-brainer with the standards. They could (and should) probably put at least 40-50 standards on screen and retain 60fps. And considering NFS Shift models are still nowhere nearly as detailed as GT5's premium cars, they'd run just fine in the GT5 engine as well, if you'd like to level the playing field and simply compare 3D models instead of the graphics engines they're rendered in.

We will see how the standard models look on release. But you seems to have already made up your mind so

Unless PD blatantly lied in the video, there's no way you can seriously expect any huge changes in the game from here on out. Most of the next 5 months will be taken up by QA testing, bug fixing, and disk production.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Just curious, since there are people holding out hope that they'll update the Standard cars in the 4 months (and a week) until release: what exactly do you think they'll do? It's taken 5 years and they've managed 200 Premium models. Considering how long it takes to make a Premium, how many do you think they'd get done between now and Nov 2? Taking into account the whole process of testing and production as well.

 

[kingcars]

And theres 800 of them to change! They'd have to do over 13 cars a day to get it completed, and thats not counting all the things left to do like QA testing. In all reality, they'd have to be done within the next 4-6 weeks.

 

[Meinbeast]

Well if you where such a critical thinker you should be able to understand that you dont always get what you want and the fact that making 1,000 cars with all the detail you want is simply not possible on a console game. They do not have enough space and hardware to work with let alone the time to do all the want.

And I am all for critical thinking, its the repeated posts that state the same thing in every thread on this forum and every comment section under the news page.

I don't feel like arguing anymore on the matter cause I find it more annoying than the repeated posts about how this game lack in every feature. If its not 2d trees its reverse lights, the sound, the interiors, the physics....

Maybe you guys just do not understand the size of the game. This is the biggest game for console's yet and to think it will all be perfect is just nonsense.

 

[gtracedriver]

Um, actually I can. Because the argument FROM THE BEGINNING has been that the standard cars are NOT up to par with today's graphical standards. If you compare the ACTUAL 3D MODEL of an NFS Shift car to the ACTUAL 3D model of a GT5 standard car, there is no comparison. The GT5 standard models are total crap compared to other racing games. The GT5 graphics engine polishes them up slightly (NOT to be confused with actual model enhancement), but that's far from being able to cover up the lack of detail.

If you insist on car models only then I guess you should only stick with premium cars. IMO standard models will be comparable to other games. Let me put it this way, a person does not like a game because the animations or character modeling is not great in-spite of the fact, that overall gfx is better. It is your call.

I have no idea what this has to do with standard car quality vs NFS Shift car model quality. Oh, right, it has NOTHING to do with it! (and for the record, they didn't take 4-6 years to make Shift either)

I think it took they some 2yrs or so. Because it is not made by exactly same people. They got some one else to make sim-arcade game and it started before lot before their previous game was released.

Unless PD blatantly lied in the video, there's no way you can seriously expect any huge changes in the game from here on out. Most of the next 5 months will be taken up by QA testing, bug fixing, and disk production.

They have not even finalized the car list and tracks. They said the game is not complete and they need to polish it also.

 

[chepu]

Just curious, since there are people holding out hope that they'll update the Standard cars in the 4 months (and a week) until release: what exactly do you think they'll do? It's taken 5 years and they've managed 200 Premium models. Considering how long it takes to make a Premium, how many do you think they'd get done between now and Nov 2? Taking into account the whole process of testing and production as well.

None. They cant do Anything now, But they could have modeled all cars with lesser Details, Instead of Modelling Exhaust bolts and Rear seats stitches 👎

Now they can dedicate to Modelling Cars only, and some tracks, From past games that havent been Redone. Pack all that and sell it as DLC or GT6...

Imo, Thats the better Solution I can think of At the moment

If you insist on car models only then I guess you should only stick with premium cars. IMO standard models will be comparable to other games. Let me put it this way, a person does not like a game because the animations or character modeling is not great in-spite of the fact, that overall gfx is better. It is your call.

The problem Is, We dont know if thats Possible, It will be plain Stupid to race in a Premium-Standard mixed race.

Oh and By the way, Those models arent Comparable to Today Standards, IE: Forza 3, NFS Shift, Dirt 2, Not Even Grid...

Those are what? 8.000 Polygons model at their Best?