Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[SlipZtrEm]

Well if you where such a critical thinker you should be able to understand that you dont always get what you want and the fact that making 1,000 cars with all the detail you want is simply not possible on a console game. They do not have enough space and hardware to work with let alone the time to do all the want.

You're misinterpreting what I want, though. I don't want 1000 cars to the detail level of Premium. I'd like 1000 cars modelled with equal amounts of quality. Giving an arbitrary rating, where Standard is 1 and Premium is 100... I'd be happy with cars that hovered around 70. Or cars all to Prologue's standard, and say screw it to the 1000 car goal. Cars all at Prologue's level, and even 500 would be plenty.

I'll take the Premium argument the other direction; what if instead of 200 cars at the current quality level, we got 100 Premium cars that had twice as much time and effort put into them? Would you be happy with the tiers then?

I just don't understand how a company that stakes it's reputation on providing the most advanced graphics, and repeatedly said they wouldn't recycle previous-gen stuff, can move forward with this two-tier business. And before I get the response of "200 cars are the most advanced graphics"... well, yes, they are. But they could've given us *1* car and said the same thing .

And I am all for critical thinking, its the repeated posts that state the same thing in every thread on this forum and every comment section under the news page.

On one hand; I know what you're saying, which is why I've stayed in just this thread. On the other hand; it's kind of a big issue, so it's unsurprising it's bleeding into the others.

I don't feel like arguing anymore on the matter cause I find it more annoying than the repeated posts about how this game lack in every feature. If its not 2d trees its reverse lights, the sound, the interiors, the physics....

Maybe you guys just do not understand the size of the game. This is the biggest game for console's yet and to think it will all be perfect is just nonsense.

Well, we did get reverse lights... .

I understand the size, which also brings up an issue; if they knew the physical limitations of the medium, and knew the rough number of cars they wanted to include... why didn't they find a happy medium between detail and size? I accept we probably can't get 1000 cars to the level of Premium on this generation. I've never said as much. I just don't see why we couldn't have got more than 200 cars that are better models than GT4's. Whether it be by a lot (Premium) or to a lesser extent, I would've rather had one equal level of detail/features for all cars. Regardless of final count.

If you insist on car models only then I guess you should only stick with premium cars. IMO standard models will be comparable to other games. Let me put it this way, a person does not like a game because the animations or character modeling is not great in-spite of the fact, that overall gfx is better. It is your call.

No, they like certain games based on unwavering bias. If your opinion is that recycled GT4 models are comparable to other games, well, it is your opinion. It's wrong, because they simply can't be as detailed as current-gen (and as one-piece body models with painted-on shutlines) from plenty of other games. But if you see them that way, more power to you.

They have not even finalized the car list and tracks. They said the game is not complete and they need to polish it also.

If they're thinking of making any seriously large updates/improvements, they have a month or so. Mind you, that's going by what we've seen; we don't know how old the E3 build was, so they very well could have a bunch more already implemented (this recent leak suggests as much). So hey, I'm all for the chance for more surprises 👍

 

[gtracedriver]

None. They cant do Anything now, But they could have modeled all cars with lesser Details, Instead of Modelling Exhaust bolts and Rear seats stitches 👎

Now they can dedicate to Modelling Cars only, and some tracks, From past games that havent been Redone. Pack all that and sell it as DLC or GT6...

Imo, Thats the better Solution I can think of At the moment


The problem Is, We dont know if thats Possible, It will be plain Stupid to race in a Premium-Standard mixed race.

Oh and By the way, Those models arent Comparable to Today Standards, IE: Forza 3, NFS Shift, Dirt 2, Not Even Grid...

Those are what? 8.000 Polygons model at their Best?

I am not sure whether the standard and premium cars will be in race either. It will look strange. But I have seen some PC games with high res textures and mods makes the look of the game really good.

I think they know what is the best for the game. If they think including standard models will not make others happy and lower the quality of the game they wouldn't have included them.

 

[analog]

Maybe you guys just do not understand the size of the game. This is the biggest game for console's yet and to think it will all be perfect is just nonsense.

Nobody's asking for perfection, at least not me, but it would be the first time to my knowledge that PD introduced a new and to me fundamentally changing gameplay element ( interior/cockpit view, all the rest you've mentioned apart from physics and perhaps sound are frankly just as trivial to me as well ) in a game, namely GT5 Prologue ( what's in a name? ) and maybe retracting it from the next title.

Although still not confirmed, granted, previously they might only promise a new feature which might then not make its appearance in the game.
This time they've let us experience this new feature in Prologue which to me implicates it was a new permanent feature for all future GT's.
Call it naïve or asking too much, to me it made sense and nothing less than a logical conclusion given the experience from previous GT-versions since the very first one.

For all those who say we were expecting too much, we weren't the ones creating this expectation.
We might be foolish for taking it for granted in hindsight, but certainly not beforehand.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I think they know what is the best for the game. If they think including standard models will not make others happy and lower the quality of the game they wouldn't have included them.

Or, they announced a car count far earlier than they should have, not realizing how long it takes to model one car, and Kaz being too stubborn to cut that time down and accept slightly less detail.

I can't fault the guy for having some mighty impressive ambitions. And the Premium models do look superb. It's just too bad we're gonna end up with what's essentially two different games hurredly mashed together to meet those all important numbers.

*shrug*

Call it naïve or asking too much, to me it made sense and nothing less than a logical conclusion given the experience from previous GT-versions since the very first one.

Well... they have taken away proper, helpful gear charts (GT1) and turbo boost levels (also GT1), and Race Mods (GT1 and GT2)... so it's not like it's the first time they've given us something only to take it away later. Or the really quite handy Analyzer in GT3.

 

[Quintin03]

Everyone is saying " I need to hear if from an official source " but we haven't had an official source to confirm there are NO cockpits either.

PD have never promised anything regarding cockpits.

Remember this untill it isn't true anymore people. We don't know if any car will feature cockpit view and if any do we don't know which do. If you don't want to use standard cars you're missing out on likely half the game. If that's what you want then do it but keep your promisses and never drive standard. I'm telling ya. You won't get past the first race.

 

[gtracedriver]

The decision about premium, standard was not taken in 2010 for sure. It was not like, we have only some 200 cars. So lets make the numbers from older games lol. The premium and standard cars decision would have taken long time back.

May be 3D tech, head tracking took them more time instead ? But it is impossible to say. Personally I think it is not that bad what some are saying. I would like to think they know what they are doing and it is for the best interest of GT5

 

[Exorcet]

hi-res version of the best that GT5 can offer?

GT4 didn't know the meaning of physics. Whether or not they look the same, GT4 and 5 are totally different. I just can't wrap my head around people buying a game for graphics. Why not watch a movie? But of course, opinions are opinions.

The premium/standard thing has one very good aspect to it IMO though. Something that was missing from previous games. PD is not putting graphics at the top, it's clear now. I've been waiting for this since 1997. GT4 looked fine; port that to PS3 with no HD support and give me upgraded physics, and I'd have the best GT game of all time. I want to play it.

 

[miragsky]

At first sorry for my bad English!
Im just cant understand why a lot of people think that standart cars have 8000 poly and iy bad? Look at screens with chevy stingrey or dodge challenger (oldschool) its pretty awesome! It is much better then F3 cars or dirt 2 or grid........ Yes we didnt have cockpit view but this not so bad, at example i use it only in time trial! and standart cars and premium have one physic model..... I cant understand you people.
And yes, we will be have mixed race with standart-premium cars like in demo on E3!

 

[AleksandarSRB]

At first sorry for my bad English!
Im just cant understand why a lot of people think that standart cars have 8000 poly and iy bad? Look at screens with chevy stingrey or dodge challenger (oldschool) its pretty awesome! It is much better then F3 cars or dirt 2 or grid........ Yes we didnt have cockpit view but this not so bad, at example i use it only in time trial! and standart cars and premium have one physic model..... I cant understand you people.

Agree those car's have much more polygons!!!!

 

[Snake206]

I was watching (frame by frame) the opening of GT for PSP and I have noticed that for a microsecond we can see a modelled cockpit inside a Mobil1 NSX that seems to be part of the "standard" category observing some less detailed parts like the mirrors and the front grill for example.
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/210/42530370.jpg
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5245/19058578.jpg

In the same video I'd say that the premium models can be easily recognized (despite PD had tried to make them look standard) because of the greater size of polygonal amount and for extra details such the position lamps
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8495/10983156.jpg
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/6938/75893466.jpg

 

[Nero9]

Premium-Standard mix, no problem.
Standard-my first 2 cars, PROBLEM!!!

 

[kingcars]

At first sorry for my bad English!
Im just cant understand why a lot of people think that standart cars have 8000 poly and iy bad? Look at screens with chevy stingrey or dodge challenger (oldschool) its pretty awesome! It is much better then F3 cars or dirt 2 or grid........ Yes we didnt have cockpit view but this not so bad, at example i use it only in time trial! and standart cars and premium have one physic model..... I cant understand you people.
And yes, we will be have mixed race with standart-premium cars like in demo on E3!

Agree those car's have much more polygons!!!!

The Stingray ('vert) and Challenger are premium models. And yes, 8,000 polygons is really bad when you have a C5R vette with fenders and vents that are squared, along with certain details being drawn in with textures instead of modeled in 3D.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I was watching (frame by frame) the opening of GT for PSP and I have noticed that for a microsecond we can see a modelled cockpit inside a Mobil1 NSX that seems to be part of the "standard" category observing some less detailed parts like the mirrors and the front grill for example.
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/210/42530370.jpg
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5245/19058578.jpg

In the same video I'd say that the premium models can be easily recognized (despite PD had tried to make them look standard) because of the greater size of polygonal amount and for extra details such the position lamps
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8495/10983156.jpg
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/6938/75893466.jpg

That NSX picture actually looks more like the far-side mirror being visible through the glass...

 

[RedSox]

I'm not sure if anyone else caught this yet, but every car in GT5 will have an interior/cockpit/dashboard view. All 1,000+ cars will have this view. The only difference will be the premium cars will have a much more detailed look to it.

My guess is that if you have a Honda Accord and a Honda Civic from the same generation and/or year, they might just copy over the dash instead of putting in work to make the subtle changes between them. I don't know the actual differences between the interiors of these cars, but this is just a guess to me. And in my opinion, this all makes sense. Why put in a ton of work for the interior of a base model Civic when you can just rush through it to perfect much more important aspects of the game.

I don't know who came up with the idea that only the 200 premium cars would have interior views, but it didn't make sense to me from the beginning. Here's the link to the article that I saw:

http://igamereport.com/2010/06/23/official-all-cars-in-gt5-will-have-interior-views/

 

[miragsky]

The Stingray ('vert) and Challenger are premium models. And yes, 8,000 polygons is really bad when you have a C5R vette with fenders and vents that are squared, along with certain details being drawn in with textures instead of modeled in 3D.

May be, but i didnt think that muscle cars premium (old muscle cars), we never seen a cockpit of this car, but yes may be i wrong!

 

[kingcars]

May be, but i didnt think that muscle cars premium (old muscle cars), we never seen a cockpit of this car, but yes may be i wrong!

All cars pictured are premium muscle cars 👍👍 . And one of the main reasons I still want GT5.

 

[Dravonic]

Anyone knows if GT5's photo mode pics are ray-traced? Cause they sure as hell seem to.

 

[CeeJay]

Man, that old Challenger is soooo beautiful!!!!

 

[kingcars]

Anyone knows if GT5's photo mode pics are ray-traced? Cause they sure as hell seem to.

I'd definitely say no, unless they're taking pictures of a 3 frames-per-minute slideshow. I'm sure it's just their awesome lighting engine, which has always been one of GTs most consistent strong points.

Man, that old Challenger is soooo beautiful!!!!

Agreed. Seeing old muscle cars in such insane detail just makes me

 

[Vesartis]

I'm not sure if anyone else caught this yet, but every car in GT5 will have an interior/cockpit/dashboard view. All 1,000+ cars will have this view. The only difference will be the premium cars will have a much more detailed look to it.

My guess is that if you have a Honda Accord and a Honda Civic from the same generation and/or year, they might just copy over the dash instead of putting in work to make the subtle changes between them. I don't know the actual differences between the interiors of these cars, but this is just a guess to me. And in my opinion, this all makes sense. Why put in a ton of work for the interior of a base model Civic when you can just rush through it to perfect much more important aspects of the game.

I don't know who came up with the idea that only the 200 premium cars would have interior views, but it didn't make sense to me from the beginning. Here's the link to the article that I saw:

http://igamereport.com/2010/06/23/official-all-cars-in-gt5-will-have-interior-views/

Just saw this too RedSox. Someone check if the guy in the link legit. Claims to have an official reply from PD on the subject.
Here

 

[Dravonic]

I'd definitely say no, unless they're taking pictures of a 3 frames-per-minute slideshow. I'm sure it's just their awesome lighting engine, which has always been one of GTs most consistent strong points.

Well exactly. I wonder if they are ray-traced so you have to wait about half a minute for the PS3 to render the photo. Or if there's an option to. Because if not than, damn, PD can pull off some miracles, no doubt.

 

[trk29]

All cars pictured are premium muscle cars 👍👍 . And one of the main reasons I still want GT5.

I know what you mean. Once owning a 74 vette the thing I loved the most about that car was looking through the windshield over the top of those big sexy fenders. Nothing can come close to driving a old vette. I cannot wait until that is recreated on my 52" HDTV.

 

[kingcars]

I know what you mean. Once owning a 74 vette the thing I loved the most about that car was looking through the windshield over the top of those big sexy fenders. Nothing can come close to driving a old vette. I cannot wait until that is recreated on my 52" HDTV.

Nothing can compare to driving an old muscle car. I love driving my dad's 66 Chevelle with a bored/stroked 385ci small block and 4 speed manual. My 306ci, 5 speed manual Thunderbird is quite fun as well . I really hope the muscle cars in GT5 can recreate the experience properly!

 

[JDMKING13]

I know what you mean. Once owning a 74 vette the thing I loved the most about that car was looking through the windshield over the top of those big sexy fenders. Nothing can come close to driving a old vette. I cannot wait until that is recreated on my 52" HDTV.

Bro i use to play on a 27 Olevia 1080i. I saved a lot of money and bought a 52 Samsung 240hz full 1080p. One word.. AMAZING. That memory will definitely be recreated for you. 👍

 

[trk29]

Bro i use to play on a 27 Olevia 1080i. I saved a lot of money and bought a 52 Samsung 240hz full 1080p. One word.. AMAZING. That memory will definitely be recreated for you. 👍

I know I can't wait.

 

[trk29]

Nothing can compare to driving an old muscle car. I love driving my dad's 66 Chevelle with a bored/stroked 385ci small block and 4 speed manual. My 306ci, 5 speed manual Thunderbird is quite fun as well . I really hope the muscle cars in GT5 can recreate the experience properly!

I wish they would've put a nova in there. My first ride was a 70 Nova with a 400 ci. Oh well the vette will do fine.

 

[kingcars]

I know I can't wait.

Even my Panasonic 32in 720P looks amazing with GT5P 👍 . Random sidenote: I'm also from NC, about 3 hours away from ya though

A Nova would be sweet. I've been really sad that no game has ever had an 87-88 Thunderbird though. Not even the awesome MT Car Of The Year '87 Turbo Coupe .

 

[BLACK86]

here is the info from the link Vesatis posted, hope its true



Official: All Cars In GT5 Will Have Interior Views

Posted on June 23rd, 2010 at 10:05 pm by Curtis GreengravatarcloseAuthor: Curtis Green Name: Curtis Green
Email: curtis.green@itechreport.com
Site:
About: You can email the author of the post, Curtis, the editor of iGame Report, at curtis.green@itechreport.com.See Authors Posts (24)

Comments (0)

In recent times there has been much speculation to whether GT5 will have cockpit views for 800 of it's cars. Well I can confirm that it will indeed have views for all of it's cars.

When I contacted PD for an official statement they sent a rather generic reply back, but with info tucked away inside.

200 of the ‘Premium’ cars will have extremely detailed interiors, down to the last bolt. Whilst the ‘Standard’ cars will all have interiors. This may mean that it is a somewhat un-detailed or that it is not totally real life. But it will have what PD are calling Generic Interiors. They are assuring me that it is still going to be a phenomenally looking experience, in standard or in premium vehicles. The 800 standard cars are going to be remodelled of the existing Gt4 models, but will be using the texture and physics that the other cars use. What this means is that the car models are being copied but the actual cars, are not just being copied and pasted. They are still being modelled accurately, but just not from scratch. This is the direct quote from the email reply:

“Standard cars do indeed have a cockpit/dashboard view, just not nearly as detailed as the premium cars. The existing cars are not just being copied; they are all being generated properly to create authentic experiences from car to car.”

This is good news as I was beginning to worry, that the cars would not look as good as they could, but this is really reassuring. With the recent news of the Weather conditions, Go-Karts (anyone else confused by this) and the inclusion of a track editor, Gran Turismo 5 is looking mighty good. It will release on November 2nd in NA, and (hopefully) in the rest of the world sometime close to that.
You can email the author of the post, Curtis, the editor of iGame Report, at curtis.green@itechreport.com.
Tags: Gran Turismo 5, GT5, PS3

 

[Slurm]

^ I wrote to PD too and they told me that guy is full of ****

Now, I actually came here to say that with everyone ranting and raving about making only 200 premium models to frankly insane and unnecessary levels of detail, I got to thinking: There could be a saving grace in all of this.

What if it is necessary? It could be that they have a customisation tool up their sleeves that is so super amazing that it required this level of detail. Perhaps race modification is making a return to the series in a way nobody saw coming. I certainly won't be expecting such great news, but it would explain why they have gone to such extreme lengths, and it may be worth it.

 

[illegaal]

All cars pictured are premium muscle cars 👍👍 . And one of the main reasons I still want GT5.

Maybe I'm not seeing so well but it seems to me that the challenger in the screenshot where it's behind the camaro has projector headlights and the orange one has the old standard reflection headlights??