Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[kingcars]

HAHAHAHA!

What a terrible comparison. An official screen-shot that was taken in 18 MEGA-PIXELS, compared to a crappy screen cap from a bad video.

No matter how much you enhance the photo, the windows will still be blacked out, the headlights will still be textured instead of modeled, and the model quality will still remain the same. Your photo quality argument holds no bearing on the things I pointed out.

There's a higher res photo of the standard Camaro around, but I couldn't find it.

EDIT: Here you go

HEY LOOK! I still cant see inside the windows, the headlights still look crappier (in fact, the higher resolution just points out how much crappier they look even more than my original pic ), and the model looks just as bad as in the other photo. Who woulda figured!!?!?

 

[RedSuinit]

No matter how much you enhance the photo, the windows will still be blacked out, the headlights will still be textured instead of modeled, and the model quality will still remain the same. Your photo quality argument holds no bearing on the things I pointed out.

There's a higher res photo of the standard Camaro around, but I couldn't find it.

The headlights are NOT textured inside the model. Look at the shadows the headlights are creating on the rest of the model. Even though that is a terrible photo you can still see the shadows. The model quality is NOT as bad as it appears in that photo, sorry. The only part of your post that holds merit outside of the photo quality is the tinted windows.

 

[socomkiller59]

I picked DLC packs, because while we are playing and enjoying the game, they could be working on getting us more premium cars.

Most of the premium cars seem to be actual race cars, not production cars. This is just me, but I really don't like driving production cars, it's never satisfied my taste of the Gran Turismo series.

Don't bash me for it, it's just personal taste. I've had enough of driving a "standard" car in my life

 

[kingcars]

The headlights are NOT textured inside the model. Look at the shadows the headlights are creating on the rest of the model. Even though that is a terrible photo you can still see the shadows. The model quality is NOT as bad as it appears in that photo, sorry. The only part of your post that holds merit outside of the photo quality is the tinted windows.

What I mean by textured headlights is that you can't see inside them like you can in the premium, not that they don't stick out from the rest of the model.

You can see what's behind the headlight lens in the premium car; you can see the bulb and the reflective back surface behind the bulb.

You can't in the standard because the headlight lens is a texture.

Oh and...yes, the model quality is still just as bad. Need I say for the 10 millionth time...

RESOLUTION. HAS. NO. BEARING. ON. ACTUAL. 3D. MODEL. DETAIL.

One day people will actually learn what 3D model detail actually means. Resolution just enhances how nicely the model is DISPLAYED, but does not add anything to the model. A 3D model running at 800x600 is the same 3D model even if it's displayed at 1920x1080.

 

[RedSuinit]

What I mean by textured headlights is that you can't see inside them like you can in the premium, not that they don't stick out from the rest of the model.

You can see what's behind the headlight lens in the premium car; you can see the bulb and the reflective back surface behind the bulb.

You can't in the standard because the headlight lens is a texture.

Oh and...yes, the model quality is still just as bad. Need I say for the 10 millionth time...

RESOLUTION. HAS. NO. BEARING. ON. ACTUAL. 3D. MODEL. DETAIL.

One day people will actually learn what 3D model detail actually means. Resolution just enhances how nicely the model is DISPLAYED, not how good it actually is.

THE. MODEL. DETAIL. IN. THAT. STANDARD. PHOTOGRAPH. LOOKS. FANTASTIC. AND. IN. ALL. HONESTY. IS. NOT. THAT. DIFFERENT. FROM. THE. PREMIUM. MODEL. YOU. CAN. SAY. OTHERWISE. BUT. THAT. DOESN'T. MEAN. SQUAT.

How nicely the model is displayed affects the PERCEPTIVE quality of the model.

Oh, and I see a bulb in the headlamp of the standard model. I would love to see you prove that it is just a texture on that headlamp.

 

[kingcars]

Oh, and I see a bulb in the headlamp of the standard model. I would love to see you prove that it is just a texture on that headlamp.

Hahahahahahaha are you serious? Wow hahahahaha. Go look at the GT4 model and get back to me (hint: they havent enhanced the models from GT4. There's plenty of proof in this thread of that).

How nicely the model is displayed affects the PERCEPTIVE quality of the model.

Some of us are smart enough to not be fooled by the perception and see the model for what it actually is underneath the graphics engine/resolution.

 

[Jump_Ace]

I see the separation between standard and premium as a compromise. One that I'm fine with since I'll be racing out of the hood or bumper cam anyway. I think they might have a plan for premium cars in the future. Like, keep modeling more standard cars for GT6 so we might see like 600 premium cars and 400 standard cars (maybe more premium..or dare I say all premium cars for GT6?) I'm sure they ran out of time to model all 1,000's to the 'premium' status and so they only did part of them so we can enjoy the game. They may even become DLC later on and eventually get rolled right into GT6. This is of course my thoughts on it, but it makes sense to me at least. As for the standard cars, I was under the impression they are the same models, just 'pumped' up in HD, yes?

Jerome

 

[RedSuinit]

Hahahahahahaha are you serious? Wow hahahahaha. Go look at the GT4 model and get back to me (hint: they havent enhanced the models from GT4. There's plenty of proof in this thread of that).

Hint: You have no proof of anything. Even in the comparison with the early 90's racing model Corvette you can see differences between the GT4 and GT5 models, but there are also similarities.

 

[kingcars]

Hint: You have no proof of anything. Even in the comparison with the early 90's racing model Corvette you can see differences between the GT4 and GT5 models, but there are also similarities.

Do I really have to explain this again?

Aside from the wheels (hint: not part of the body) and graphics engine lighting, the car model is UNCHANGED.

Lets see you prove that those 69 Camaro headlights are 3D. I'll be waiting.

 

[Ollie1066]

THE. MODEL. DETAIL. IN. THAT. STANDARD. PHOTOGRAPH. LOOKS. FANTASTIC. AND. IN. ALL. HONESTY. IS. NOT. THAT. DIFFERENT. FROM. THE. PREMIUM. MODEL. YOU. CAN. SAY. OTHERWISE. BUT. THAT. DOESN'T. MEAN. SQUAT.

How nicely the model is displayed affects the PERCEPTIVE quality of the model.

Oh, and I see a bulb in the headlamp of the standard model. I would love to see you prove that it is just a texture on that headlamp.

Thaaank you finally, somebody agrees that the Standard Cars still look fantastic 💡

 

[SavageEvil]

Hey guys,

1. those GT4 models are just higher resolutions with more polygons thrown in somewhere(driver model and possibly dash), because the outside is just a texture map, they look exactly as they did in GT4, with minor polygon padding here and there nothing to drastic.

2 You can clearly see that you can see the other cars right through the cars windows in the standard models, while the windows are still darker by contrast to the premium, you can still see the polygonal driver inside the car(big helmet inside).

3. anyone besides me notice that all the muscle cars in that standard shot have the exact same seating, look closely at all that you can see through the windshield. I think we might have a clue as to the generic interior modeling, lol. not concrete fact, but based of what i am looking at, it looks like certain typical standard cars will share the same interior look, hence the shaded windows.

 

[Stratosphere03]

Why are people so obsessed about HOW **** is done? **** man, all I know is the standard models look better than their GT4 counterparts, and actually look pretty good. Up to the premium car levels of detail? Of course not, but they are far from an eyesore.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

ZOMG the Chevy emblem is tilted the wrong way!

But this is a nice premium shot. Very vivid.

 

[RedSuinit]

Do I really have to explain this again?

Aside from the wheels (hint: not part of the body) and graphics engine lighting, the car model is UNCHANGED.

Lets see you prove that those 69 Camaro headlights are 3D. I'll be waiting.

One of the biggest differences is the quality of the textures. The ONLY reason those textures on the GT5 model look even remotely similar to the GT4 model is because of motion blur. Look at the spot where is says "Performance Parts" on the bottom of the model. It becomes obvious that the textures in the GT5 models are blurred due to motion blur. In the GT4 model you can read it pretty well, but in the GT5 model its blurred, why? Because of the MOTION BLUR from the fact that this is a screen grab from a VIDEO.

 

[Piotrov]

What I mean by textured headlights is that you can't see inside them like you can in the premium, not that they don't stick out from the rest of the model.

You can see what's behind the headlight lens in the premium car; you can see the bulb and the reflective back surface behind the bulb.

You can't in the standard because the headlight lens is a texture.

Oh and...yes, the model quality is still just as bad. Need I say for the 10 millionth time...

RESOLUTION. HAS. NO. BEARING. ON. ACTUAL. 3D. MODEL. DETAIL.

One day people will actually learn what 3D model detail actually means. Resolution just enhances how nicely the model is DISPLAYED, but does not add anything to the model. A 3D model running at 800x600 is the same 3D model even if it's displayed at 1920x1080.

Question, im not much into graphic desighn or anything but why would they have two of the same car, one as standard and one as premium?

They are the same body shape apart for minor details such as badging and what not.
Seems a bit odd to me.

 

[AleksandarSRB]

What I mean by textured headlights is that you can't see inside them like you can in the premium, not that they don't stick out from the rest of the model.

You can see what's behind the headlight lens in the premium car; you can see the bulb and the reflective back surface behind the bulb.

You can't in the standard because the headlight lens is a texture.

Oh and...yes, the model quality is still just as bad. Need I say for the 10 millionth time...

RESOLUTION. HAS. NO. BEARING. ON. ACTUAL. 3D. MODEL. DETAIL.

One day people will actually learn what 3D model detail actually means. Resolution just enhances how nicely the model is DISPLAYED, but does not add anything to the model. A 3D model running at 800x600 is the same 3D model even if it's displayed at 1920x1080.

Difference between standard and premium car's is not such big!!! For me standard car's look awesome and premium are perfect!!!!

 

[warp9engage]

One of the biggest differences is the quality of the textures. The ONLY reason those textures on the GT5 model look even remotely similar to the GT4 model is because of motion blur. Look at the spot where is says "Performance Parts" on the bottom of the model. It becomes obvious that the textures in the GT5 models are blurred due to motion blur. In the GT4 model you can read it pretty well, but in the GT5 model its blurred, why? Because of the MOTION BLUR from the fact that this is a screen grab from a VIDEO.

Excuse my interruption in the discussion but there's something to be noted: at the moment of capture, the Corvette C5Rs in both pictures are moving at a considerable velocity, causing a motion blur effect on the two photos. It's true that the quality of the video might influence the overall look of some textures, that is granted. However, I think a more appropriate set of textures should be examined, instead of the "Performance Parts" decal. I would recommend looking at the textures on the wheelarch, in both pictures they are the least affected by motion blur. Apon examining them it's possible to notice that the same blurry, rough edge textures are present on both the Corvette's wheelarches, indicating little to no change in perfecting their resolution on the car.

 

[Gerath]

ZOMG the Chevy emblem is tilted the wrong way!

- Horizontally it looks ok, but the vertical should be straight not little tilted. But maybe it looks that at that times

 

[SrRd RacinG]

- Horizontally it looks ok, but the vertical should be straight not little tilted. But maybe it looks that at that times

It really should be tilted back up slightly. But it's not a huge worry.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

People who say the Standard models look "fantastic" are just making it easier to identify bias. They look great for what they are... which are last-generation models thrown into a far more powerful rendering system. We get some impressive lighting and it looks like very slight cleanup of textures (the C5R suffers from a lot less dithering than the GT4 model), but they are pretty clearly the same models. After spending endless hours in GT4's Photomode with a lot of these cars, it's pretty easy to spot. The Camaro SS, for example, will give up the ghost if you take a front-end picture from an angle; it becomes painfully clear the lights are just textures at that point. That slight shadow underneath the lens? Also a texture.

Like I said, they're great for what they are. But hardly revolutionary, and while generally accurate, can't hold a candle to a lot of current-gen racing game car models.

 

[danthespaceman]

I wish they would have just stuck with all standard cars for GT5 and released this a year ago. Leave the premium stuff for GT6 and apply it to every car. Even Kaz said that they may have got a little carried away with the level of detail for this release.

There's something to be said about how the human eye gets used to a certain level of visual quality. I have a few PS One classic games on my PS3, and while they look terrible at first, you get used to it as you immerse yourself in the gameplay. The same could be said for GT5 and standard cars, except that we will always have premium models in there too reminding us of how much better things can look. If they were all standard models, we wouldn't know the difference, would we?

I also think that Prologue set us up for disappointment. If they had simply put a mixture of premium and standard cars in the game, we wouldn't be having this discussion today.

 

[Spagetti69]

Sorry I asked this in another thread but it should go here.

Hypothetical question.

Would standards be forgiven for a 32 car grid?

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Going by sheer poly counts, since Standards are at least 4x less detailed than Premium, a 32-car grid shouldn't be hard. I don't know what else all has to be taken into consideration though. That would go a way's into making them more acceptable to me, because that'd fill up something like the 'Ring quite nicely

 

[homerjfong]

lol seriously people are struggling to find differences between a modeled headlight and one that's just a texture??

 

[AgusBmxArg]

Find me a single post in which I say I don't like Gran Turismo.

Msn chat convo we had some hours ago.

 

[RedSuinit]

Excuse my interruption in the discussion but there's something to be noted: at the moment of capture, the Corvette C5Rs in both pictures are moving at a considerable velocity, causing a motion blur effect on the two photos. It's true that the quality of the video might influence the overall look of some textures, that is granted. However, I think a more appropriate set of textures should be examined, instead of the "Performance Parts" decal. I would recommend looking at the textures on the wheelarch, in both pictures they are the least affected by motion blur. Apon examining them it's possible to notice that the same blurry, rough edge textures are present on both the Corvette's wheelarches, indicating little to no change in perfecting their resolution on the car.

No, the GT4 photo is a race mode photo-mode photo. The tire may have motion blur, but that is it.

 

[Tenacious D]

1. those GT4 models are just higher resolutions with more polygons thrown in somewhere(driver model and possibly dash), because the outside is just a texture map, they look exactly as they did in GT4, with minor polygon padding here and there nothing to drastic.

Actually, it was mentioned in a few interviews and posted in news blurbs that the Premium and Standard cars would have different levels of polygon detail, but both would use superbly done texture maps and skins.

People who say the Standard models look "fantastic" are just making it easier to identify bias.

I think they look fantastic. But then, I admire the cars in GT4.

And I'm serious. Take the models in GT4, up the polygon count considerably, and before even repainting the skins, I'll love them. As much as the Premium cars? Ehh... probably not, but not that much less. I am going to be racing, modding and Photo Mode-ing the heck out of them too.

Of course, I was also defending the Forza 2 screengrabs back on the PS Universe boards, so what do I know about quality?

 

[SlipZtrEm]

No, the GT4 photo is a race mode photo-mode photo. The tire may have motion blur, but that is it.

...where have you been? GT4 Photomode pictures will have lots of blur depending on shutter speed.

Actually, it was mentioned in a few interviews and posted in news blurbs that the Premium and Standard cars would have different levels of polygon detail, but both would use superbly done texture maps and skins.


I think they look fantastic. But then, I admire the cars in GT4.

And I'm serious. Take the models in GT4, up the polygon count considerably, and before even repainting the skins, I'll love them. As much as the Premium cars? Ehh... probably not, but not that much less. I am going to be racing, modding and Photo Mode-ing the heck out of them too.

Of course, I was also defending the Forza 2 screengrabs back on the PS Universe boards, so what do I know about quality?

Look, I know you take a lot of pride in advanced quote editing, but read my entire post again. If you can sit there and compare Standard, low-poly models to a host of NFS, FM3, or nearly any other current-gen game's models, and say the Standards look better, yeah, bias. Like I said, yet again, they do look very good for what they are. The lighting and shading available on PS3 see to that. But they are still very much last-gen models, that rely on texture work to convey details that the Premiums can show us with actual modelling.

Though your first paragraph makes me think; while it's plainly obvious we're seeing the old car models and textures, the amount of time left before release does give them some time to give the Standard cars higher resolution skins. The race cars obviously need it more to de-muddy the assorted decals, but shutlines could become imperceptible from actual modelled ones if they do some small changes. It's actually completely possible given the timeline, too. Maybe...

 

[kingcars]

Question, im not much into graphic desighn or anything but why would they have two of the same car, one as standard and one as premium?

They are the same body shape apart for minor details such as badging and what not.
Seems a bit odd to me.

Your guess is as good as mine; I have been wondering this myself. The 69 Camaro Z28 is premium, while the SS version is not. The 69 Corvette convertible is premium, while the coupe is not. It makes no sense to me.

...where have you been? GT4 Photomode pictures will have lots of blur depending on shutter speed.

Correct...case in point:

If you can sit there and compare Standard, low-poly models to a host of NFS, FM3, or nearly any other current-gen game's models, and say the Standards look better, yeah, bias. Like I said, yet again, they do look very good for what they are. The lighting and shading available on PS3 see to that. But they are still very much last-gen models, that rely on texture work to convey details that the Premiums can show us with actual modelling.

Couldnt have said it better myself 👍 . I'm a huuuuuuuuge GT fan, but I'll call them out when it's necessary.

Though your first paragraph makes me think; while it's plainly obvious we're seeing the old car models and textures, the amount of time left before release does give them some time to give the Standard cars higher resolution skins. The race cars obviously need it more to de-muddy the assorted decals, but shutlines could become imperceptible from actual modelled ones if they do some small changes. It's actually completely possible given the timeline, too. Maybe...

Lets hope they have something up their sleeve .

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Your guess is as good as mine; I have been wondering this myself. The 69 Camaro Z28 is premium, while the SS version is not. The 69 Corvette convertible is premium, while the coupe is not. It makes no sense to me.

I've actually been using the two Camaro's as my best example of hope for future Premium models; I get the feeling they were going through GT4 models, and picking which were getting the upgrade. We don't really have any idea what criteria they use, but for whatever reason, the Z28 was picked, and the SS hasn't been... yet. Maybe PD picks what they think the fans would want most? Maybe it's whatever cars are easily available?

I may be unhappy with Standard cars, and I'll continue to voice that, but I do recognize that they are very, very likely a one-game issue. Premium will be the new standard, quite literally, in a few years.