Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"
- Thread starter LP670-4 SV
- 10,183 comments
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The car behind the new Challenger is the old Challenger (the one closer to the picture), with clear windows, not tinted ones. 👍 . And fyi, in the first picture, it only looks like tinted windows because the car is in the shade. But you can clearly see the dashboard, 3D steering wheel, and driver. The picture above proves my point; when the car isn't in the shade, you can clearly see that the windows are not tinted.
If there's one thing I know, it's my muscle cars. Been around them all my life.
If those are 100,000 poly models, then PD needs to go back to school. There are user-made cars for games like NFS and rFactor using 10-20k polys that look better than the GT5 standard models. The fenders on the Corvette aren't even rounded; you can clearly see how wide the polygon rows are, a clear indicator of a low poly (probably less than 6k) model. The vents on the front bumper and on the door aren't rounded either. No way thats even a 10k poly model, not including wheels.
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- 177
- Rodpunisher
- Rod punisher
It means quite a bit when there are major details like fenders and side vents that look noticeably lower in quality. The C5R picture clearly shows the low poly nature of the standard models. Drake and Kratos both look stunning, and I honestly couldn't tell you which looks better. However, if they just ported over Kratos' model from GoW II, there'd be no competition. But they didnt; Kratos is a current gen model, so trying to use that as a comparison with GT5's standard models simply doesnt work.
- 1,689
- NY
- SavageEvil
My assumption is just going off the fact that they also include the interior, the driver and tires, more than likely undersides(assuming they can roll over). Sorry about the high number poly assumption, but needless to say, none of those game come close to GT scale period. If those are 7k models PD are wizards of the highest order then. Not sure why wheels wouldn't be added in the poly count you have, are they not part of the car model? Who cares how much polys PD used on the standard cars, those cars don't look too bad and PD implementation into the game engine will ensure that the cars don't look out of place compared to the back grounds they are up against. It's all in how you use what you have. Why PD use such lower count models is probably because they were strapped for time and they possibly did it at the same time they were doing the GTPSP and just kept the models to be used in GT5. If it wasn't for the side excursion with GT PSP we'd have a bit more premium cars, but the standards would look even worse than they do now.
My original post is about these models actually being more detailed than the GT4 models and not just the same GT4 models reused. In fact they have more polys everywhere, wish I had a closer photo to examine more thoroughly but just from the photos alone a keen eye can see the difference in the two models.
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Wrong. They're still low poly GT4 models. I just did a quick edit in Paint and drew red lines to all of the major details with squared edges:
All of those places are also squared off in the GT4 model, in the same places!
The polygon rows are in the exact same spots! So what, you're saying they just remodeled the cars in the exact same fashion? A "keen eye" can clearly see where the rows of polygons were placed, and that they are placed in the **EXACT** same spots in both models. Thats pretty much like a fingerprint match.
- 1,689
- NY
- SavageEvil
Wrong. They're still low poly GT4 models. I just did a quick edit in Paint and drew red lines to all of the major details with squared edges:
All of those places are also squared off in the GT4 model, in the same places!
The polygon rows are in the exact same spots! So what, you're saying they just remodeled the cars in the exact same fashion?
Talk about giving your opponent ammunition in which to fire at you. Lol
How about you point out the squared out parts in the GT4 image and compare them to the one in GT5 image? Guarantee you will see that there are more polys added. I specifically pointed out the lights in the GT5 model, look at it's placement and the spacing between it and the surface of the car. Or the fact that the for lamp cut outs in the GT5 version is actually more rounded than the one in the GT4 pic. Or how about the vents on the fenders, notice that the one in GT5 pic is actually much more prominent and larger...there is depth added to the fender just past the wheel well. Don't see it? What about the the front lip how come the GT5 pic isn't flat as the GT4 one? It's the same model isn't it? Right? If you can't see the things I pointed out, then you are purposely being difficult. No need to discuss it any further with you then o.k. cool.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,705
- Texas
Except it's not improved. GT4, as dave_sz said nicely, had to paralyze the models for them to work with the PS2. Now that they have the PS3's power to work, they can run them the way they originally wanted them to. The only thing they have improved is for the cars to look better with the lighting & what not.
The textures & details of the model are still the same as they were in GT4.
- 1,689
- NY
- SavageEvil
Are you kidding me? So you are telling me that the rounded edges and larger and more defined polygon differences I pointed out are attributed to different lighting? So you want me to believe that behind the wheel wells in both photos that a lighting engine can somehow change what was in GT4 a flat texture shaded dark spot to give the appearance of being a 3 dimensional part(up close you can see it's just a texture wrap), into an actual 3 dimensional part up close? Are you breathing the same air I am? I'm not sure we are looking at the same thing are we? There is a definite size difference to the vents just over the wheel wells that you can visibly see, the GT5 vents are bigger and the photo is actually snapped from further away(How is that even possible). The front headlight on both cars look different, the GT5 model is more flushly applied to the car(care to disagree?!?). If this was lighting was doing this then those mirrors wouldn't be the same. This shows that they re did the models and left more detail in other places, it's more logical to think this as it makes more sense than being attributed to lighting engine differences. That is one fantastical lighting engine they have there, many people in the industry would love to get their hands on that code, lol.
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
Just so we're all on the same page here; "car model" refers to just the body; not making any reference to the driver or wheels, because as far as we know, those are quite separate. At least, I believe that's the definition most of us are using.
I'm not really going to continue the argument anymore; if people want to keep telling themselves these are somehow magically improved models that aren't recycled from GT4, then whatever helps them cope. I've never denied the use of a new lighting system that makes them look better than in their original game, nor have I said we won't get some updated textures to hide their one-pieced-ness, since they still do have time before release. But judging by what we've seen so far, it's a pretty clear answer.
...this however gave me a good chuckle. I needed that to help me coast through the last hour of work before the weekend
I'm not really going to continue the argument anymore; if people want to keep telling themselves these are somehow magically improved models that aren't recycled from GT4, then whatever helps them cope. I've never denied the use of a new lighting system that makes them look better than in their original game, nor have I said we won't get some updated textures to hide their one-pieced-ness, since they still do have time before release. But judging by what we've seen so far, it's a pretty clear answer.
...this however gave me a good chuckle. I needed that to help me coast through the last hour of work before the weekend
So you're trying to tell me that they did all of those stupid small details while leaving the fenders squared off? There are only 3 or 4 rows of polygons there to make the fenders...that's nowhere near enough for a nicely rounded fender. And the side mirrors are also clearly untouched. Why in the world would they spend their time on the small, hardly noticeable crap (which you're still wrong...the vents are the same size on both models, for example) and leave the huge, main body features untouched? A lot of the stuff you're referring to is related to depth perception, which is evident with different lighting engines. Sorry dude, even people who like the standard models admit to them being GT4 models. A few added polygons here and there won't change the fact. And until there is definitive proof otherwise, they will remain to be looked at as recycled, last generation car models.
- 1,689
- NY
- SavageEvil
The vent ABOVE the wheels wells are the same size? I do not have access to photo editing software or the time right now to point it out, but I hope you can understand simple english, the vents ABOVE the wheel wells(meaning right over the wheels). Look in both photos and come tell me again that those vents are the SAME SIZE! The one in the GT5 photo is clearly reaching the headlights, the entire modeled vent including the shape. Why they left the models so low is because these are more than likely the ones they used in GTPSP. I've got things to do, I'll try to get some editing tools and point it out if you are still confused. I would answer the othr bloke but why waste time, answer one and you answer all. Check you guys later.
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- Stratosphere03
This may be one of the dumbest most pointless arguments I have ever seen. EVER.
I just took a 2nd look and there may be a difference there, but the pictures are really not clear enough to tell. What is clear and easy to see, though, are the things I pointed out. Those cant be distorted by light or blur. And I'll say this as well - if things like that are what PD spent their time upgrading, they wasted their time. Who would notice that while racing? They would have been much better off actually increasing the quality of the fenders and body lines, or maybe a decent looking interior instead of modeling the corner of a vent to make it look more 3D than before.
Agreed. Especially just a page after everyone basically agreed that GT5 standard models = GT4 models.
Agreed. Especially just a page after everyone basically agreed that GT5 standard models = GT4 models.
- 1,175
yep. It's the same.
- 2,980
- Greensboro/NC/U
- jarod336/GTP_torque
- Paperorplastic/ manherollen
Internet fight!
- 744
- NOS_Waster or GTP_NOS_Waster
- NOS Waster
yay for more people fighting about something that won't change! WOOHOO!
Let's get ready to rumble!!!
The fighting is getting a little childish. I'm starting to be ashamed to be a Gran Turismo fan because of how people act when ONE THING (or more) isn't right in their perfect little game... and i like GT as much as the next guy on this forum. I DON'T like the childish behavior. very immature people arguing over whther a model is recycled from GT4 or GTPSP. Who cares? Theyre both still low detail ones compared to the premium ones.
Let's get ready to rumble!!!
The fighting is getting a little childish. I'm starting to be ashamed to be a Gran Turismo fan because of how people act when ONE THING (or more) isn't right in their perfect little game... and i like GT as much as the next guy on this forum. I DON'T like the childish behavior. very immature people arguing over whther a model is recycled from GT4 or GTPSP. Who cares? Theyre both still low detail ones compared to the premium ones.
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- MN
- Phoax
I get the impression they need the actual car in their possession to scan the interior and make it premium. Many of the cars in Gran Turismo only have one or 2 existing examples and I doubt they would hand them over and let people climb around inside them. The more car's the better I say. I like the hood view anyway.
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- Wales
- TSR_GTWelsh
So from what I understand from this is;
That car is the same 3D model used in GT4.
With a relatively low poly count, which is disappointing, but I bet there are better ones as well (different cars).
The main textures are the same as the original model
The car itself HAS been changed and now has updated properties that allow it to have the same shine/reflection/lighting effects used on all other GT5 cars.
Small 3D updates may of happened (the lights are a possability but we cannot see them clearly).
It now has an interior.
(In my opinion, all cars will have an interior, how good they will be on standard cars awaits to be seen).
That car is the same 3D model used in GT4.
With a relatively low poly count, which is disappointing, but I bet there are better ones as well (different cars).
The main textures are the same as the original model
The car itself HAS been changed and now has updated properties that allow it to have the same shine/reflection/lighting effects used on all other GT5 cars.
Small 3D updates may of happened (the lights are a possability but we cannot see them clearly).
It now has an interior.
(In my opinion, all cars will have an interior, how good they will be on standard cars awaits to be seen).
I was just saying, if people are complaining so much, let's see what they can do.
Lol...already done, champ:
That was my first attempt at 3D modeling about 7-8 years ago when I was 14. Yeah it sucks and I can point out tons of errors, but it was a great learning experience. But it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Anybody with a basic understanding of graphics engines and 3D modeling can keep up with whats going on.
FYI...all the stuff I was saying about people mistaking 3D model detail for graphics engine detail, the pictures above should help clarify. That's how 3D models look before lighting or textures or any of that fancy stuff is applied, and that is what I am basing my opinions off of; the actual models, not the graphics engine they're ported into.
I used ZModeler and learned from a couple of tutorial videos before going on my own with the model I posted. But my model never did make it to the texturing or implementation stages. The main thing I learned is that it's all about keeping all of the polygons in nice clean lines while forming the curves (which gets really difficult when having to model the lights, as you can see the trouble I had around the headlight area...I wasn't gonna pull what PD did and texture them in ). Even with several noticeable inefficiencies with my model, and some basic 3D wheels thrown on, the model weighed in around 3,500 polygons. Here's an example of what a well done 3D model should look like (not mine unfortunately):
Nice polygon management all around. Looks stellar. Take note, PD. No insanely blocky curves to be seen here. This model is around 9500 polygons, well south of the ~400-500k figure for the premiums...so I really don't know why models of this quality could not have been the standard cars. And heres the WIP interior:
). Even with several noticeable inefficiencies with my model, and some basic 3D wheels thrown on, the model weighed in around 3,500 polygons. Here's an example of what a well done 3D model should look like (not mine unfortunately):
Nice polygon management all around. Looks stellar. Take note, PD. No insanely blocky curves to be seen here. This model is around 9500 polygons, well south of the ~400-500k figure for the premiums...so I really don't know why models of this quality could not have been the standard cars. And heres the WIP interior:
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evilfoxhound
(Banned)
- 639
