Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[LaBounti]

As opposed to focusing on one consistent level of quality across the board for this game? I'll admit, these Premiums are so finely-detailed I can't see them needing improvements for a while, and because of their makeup, are going to be easier to update than the GT4/Standards way of doing things. But this attention to quality and detail as a pre-emptive strike on taking care of it in GT6 means GT5 suffers.

How? What part of that causes drawbacks to the gameplay or game design? I don't think is the game that suffers, perhaps the gamers who can't get over standard cars and just accept them will suffer. They can just not buy, play or read about GT5 until it meets their standards.

 

[Akira AC]

Its about quanity v quality (the absence of it) with no cockpits in 80%. In a ps3 game in 2010 an absence of 80% is unacceptable, considering the snerario (5 years?)

About Quantity over quality:

500 semi-premium vs 200 premium
nothing (and point the fact that there isn't any night race) vs day/night
nothing vs weather
nothing vs rally
nothing vs nascar
nothing vs track creator
nothing vs karting
19 tracks(119 layouts including reverse) vs 38 confirmed tracks
full livery editor vs nothing

In any case but I really don't know what people make the fuzz about,I play dirt 2 and it has better models that the ones on forza 3,these models do have full model interior unlike forza's models,so its not that FM3 its the only thing close to GT(consider the fact that FM its a GT rip-off ).

talking in numbers and the things you can do nothing gets close to GT in this generation,sure FM has 500 cars but these models aren't that good,in round-up it cant be said that weather and day/night and track editor are minor features,if they are then the so praised livery editor from forza will be just another minor feature.

so premium,day/night,weather,rally,nascar,track creator,karting,+ 40 tracks in 5 years,unacceptable? geez

 

[VXR]

The models might not be good, but then they have to accept a 1000 layers of data on top of each side & the top and then 500 front & rear with 100 on the wing. Overall quality in lieu of a livery editor isn't that great a compromise, because it's liberating to be given freedom in games, hence why I'm a die-hard PES fan over FIFA, with its authenticity that limits individuality.

Whilst Forza is a copy of Gran Turismo, it has at least taken steps to distance itself as more of a culture simulator than a straight-up driving/race sim. They can both easily live side-by-side.

 

[Tenacious D]

Its about quanity v quality (the absence of it) with no cockpits in 80%. In a ps3 game in 2010 an absence of 80% is unacceptable, considering the snerario (5 years?)

Scenario. Anyway, I'll address this below.

This is roughly the old "could you do it better?" argument?

While you might see it this way, it's actually, "Do you know what you're talking about, and do you have anything to show for it?"

In this case not only do I have a decent understanding of what it takes to crank out these game assets (both through experience, general knowledge and reading interviews and stories about specifically how the modern day game studios are doing it) but Kaz has said himself they probably took it a bit too far and he had to make sacrifices.

Actually, the only thing I can be sure of with you is that you often spin a clever argument.

Heck, I'm up on game modeling too from friends who have done it/are doing, and videos of the game developers at work crafting their creations and giving interviews. I also believe I have a solid grasp of how the industry works.

But one thing neither of us can say is we're part of that process. Especially not at Polyphony. These guys aren't exactly newbs, you know. Heck, a core group have been there from the very beginning, 1995 or so, and thus have been doing this job for 15 years. Kaz isn't exactly a wild-eyed tyrant, as these guys love their sensei and very few leave Polyphony, in spite of the crazy slave-like demands required of them for years. These guys are as much a committee, or even a family, and most likely it was a joint decision to "go big" on the car and track models. I'm sure it wasn't a SONY decision, because it meant a longer delay getting their biggest money maker out the door.

My guess is that they had this two-tier thing in mind from early on, as they've been doing this so long, I doubt they misjudged the time budget needed to do such incredible work. But, perhaps not. They might have been thinking of a GT5 with 400-600-plus Premium level cars solely, as that would have made GT5 much more like the ample GT2 and 4 than the skimpy GT3. But clearly, a couple of big burdens were dumped in their laps at the 7th and 10th hours.

• SONY required Kaz to produce GT PSP in the middle of GT5 development, even if it disrupted work on GT5. Which it did.
• A vocal bunch here in the west demanded damage, as well as weather, time of day changes, and several other "necessities," and got rather cranky when they weren't in preliminary videos, and in interviews, Kaz stated they might not be included in GT5.

Maybe you can blame people like me for pleading with Kaz to put as many cars in GT5 as possible, and not produce something reminiscent of the puny GT3. They knew that the only way to do that was to port over these older assets, and if you were going to port some, why not the whole shebang? So way back in 2008, it became known that there would be this two-tiered system. While a few wondered if this meant a bunch of cars would in essence be the discarded GT4 HD, most of us shot that idea down as ludicrous.

Oh well.

Now, Negativo mentioned the "unacceptability" of "quanity v quality (the absence of it) with no cockpits in 80%" of the cars in GT5. He might not have meant that exactly, or maybe he did. But what "unacceptable" strictly means is, either you won't touch any of the Standard cars with a 10 foot USB cable, or you won't buy GT5 at all. There are a few people here who are so turned off by the two tier system that they won't buy GT5, period. Or at least that's what they say. A few won't even look at the Standards in the car lots, or may only race them to get to a certain completion percentage. Hey, that's their choice. But I have a feeling that the acceptability of the Standards is going to number in the millions during the months of November and December alone. As in all things GT, we'll see.

I'm mostly quoting this for devil's advocate work; he's "right" if your definition is sold copies. I love me some GT, but one thing I have noticed? It has a really high turnover rate. I see a ton of used copies in any video game store I go into.

I don't suppose you've noticed this with Halo, Gears, Madden, GTA, NHL, or any other high profile game? I seem to. Give any game 15 days, and a few copies will be on a GameStop shelf, because kids these days don't want to spend time on anything. Especially if it means trade in value.

 

[JDMKING13]

How? What part of that causes drawbacks to the gameplay or game design? I don't think is the game that suffers, perhaps the gamers who can't get over standard cars and just accept them will suffer. They can just not buy, play or read about GT5 until it meets their standards.

Pd did what they can do, and i think they did a heck of a job. GT5 will be an Amazing game all around, and like i said I am very happy the standard cars made it in. Even if we got 200 cars i would of been happy, but now that i get the chance to drive another 800 cars with new features and content from GT4, GT5 will be amazing and suffer nothing. GT5 Is going to be a great game that will entertain us to the day GT6 comes out. Also I love what PD did for GT5 GT6 is going to be so good because PD spent so much time on GT5 hard work pays off cant wait till November.

Forza's Nissan R35 GTR (Super GT)

GT5 (the same car ^)

The real deal

You take a look at these Images and you can tell PD are setting a new standard with these Premiums cars.( just look at all 3 steering wheels) They are ahead right now. I cant be Mad at Kaz saying I want all my cars to look like the premiums. Thats going to take time, he has a vision and he is sticking to it. Yes Forza has 500 Cockpits but they are nowhere comparable to GT5, Just as members said with the 1000 cars It was a bragging thing you can say the same thing for Forza3 we have 500 cockpits.(even though some look good and some look trash) Even though we got the news late at least PD told us about the difference of the 2 cars before we played the game. When i put in my forza3 and saw my Honda Civic Si interior on release day it was

 

[Dapper]

Last I checked GT5 was a game for PS3. And since nothing has been said about the PS4 at this point, that whole "next generation" comment is really nothing more than marketing speak. Can they run 16 of these "PS4-worthy" models on track together? Yes? Then how is that not just the best-looking models of this generation? Because I agree with that. And using your argument... they still have 800 cars that definitely aren't up to these imaginary PS4 standards.

You are wrong. KY has said many times the premium models will be used in the future on the next console.

As opposed to focusing on one consistent level of quality across the board for this game? I'll admit, these Premiums are so finely-detailed I can't see them needing improvements for a while, and because of their makeup, are going to be easier to update than the GT4/Standards way of doing things. But this attention to quality and detail as a pre-emptive strike on taking care of it in GT6 means GT5 suffers.

That is a subjective opinion. Sadly it is not logical. If they did what you suggest, making one level of quality, GT5 wouldn't have the variety of cars that the GT is known for and that would make GT5 suffer.

Oh hey, can I borrow your final retail copy so that I can make this judgement too? Whenever you're finished with it, of course.

It is ok to just open your eyes. This, of course, is assuming you've played GT5p, for then you would understand the gradiosity of GT5. BTW, I was talking about KY having the GT series, not just GT5, and Deve having nothing.

 

[Tenacious D]

The models might not be (as) good, but then they have to accept a 1000 layers of data on top of each side & the top and then 500 front & rear with 100 on the wing. Overall quality in lieu of a livery editor isn't that great a compromise, because it's liberating to be given freedom in games, hence why I'm a die-hard PES fan over FIFA, with its authenticity that limits individuality.

Whilst Forza is a copy of Gran Turismo, it has at least taken steps to distance itself as more of a culture simulator than a straight-up driving/race sim. They can both easily live side-by-side.

You could be right about this, and I'm assuming you meant "as good." Forza 3 does do some short sheeting to get those eight cars on track at once, and it's entirely possible that the more involved liveries could generate a good load of data that the game has to manage through a race. And while I was shocked at the "1000 layers per side" figure, I came pretty close to that in some of my liveries, and some people maxed out.

I am pretty jealous of Forza's Livery Editor, as I spend more time in it than I do racing around! Well, when I was playing it anyway, and I do wish it was in what I consider to be the better game. As for the other community features, it depends, as it's possible that GT5 may have a few surprises for us in that regard.

Pd did what they can do, and i think they did a heck of a job. GT5 will be an Amazing game all around, and like i said I am very happy the standard cars made it in. Even if we got 200 cars i would of been happy

While I would have been happy myself, I would constantly be fretting over hundreds of cars that wouldn't have been there. I really wasn't looking forward to another GT3, and would be praying nightly for news on DLC. But thank God Kaz saw fit to work out the compromise so those who want only the best 200 some odd models can enjoy them. And those of us who want the full grand can have that too.

 

[JDMKING13]

You could be right about this, and I'm assuming you meant "as good." Forza 3 does do some short sheeting to get those eight cars on track at once, and it's entirely possible that the more involved liveries could generate a good load of data that the game has to manage through a race. And while I was shocked at the "1000 layers per side" figure, I came pretty close to that in some of my liveries, and some people maxed out.

I am pretty jealous of Forza's Livery Editor, as I spend more time in it than I do racing around! Well, when I was playing it anyway, and I do wish it was in what I consider to be the better game. As for the other community features, it depends, as it's possible that GT5 may have a few surprises for us in that regard.


While I would have been happy myself, I would constantly be fretting over hundreds of cars that wouldn't have been there. I really wasn't looking forward to another GT3, and would be praying nightly for news on DLC. But thank God Kaz saw fit to work out the compromise so those who want only the best 200 some odd models can enjoy them. And those of us who want the full grand can have that too.

This is why I said this

but now that i get the chance to drive another 800 cars with new features and content from GT4, GT5 will be amazing and suffer nothing.

I agree with you 100%

 

[Jedi2016]

You are wrong. KY has said many times the premium models will be used in the future on the next console.

That doesn't surprise me in the least, given what we've seen. I don't think we're wanting on these models, in any way, shape, or form. There's no segmentation, every last detail is modeled right into the mesh.. I've seen film-used models with less detail.

What the next platform will do is allow better texturing, shading, and lighting. That's where the big visual difference will be made. But the meshes themselves? They'll hold up fine.

 

[PirateThom]

The whole "only 200 premiums" sits OK with me simply because when you look at TOTAL car lists for GT1 and GT3, it's less than 200 anyway. This has always been the case and, if they don't sit well with you, either don't use them or consider them "bonus content", whatever. They're in the game, deal with it.

 

[LaBounti]

The models might not be good, but then they have to accept a 1000 layers of data on top of each side & the top and then 500 front & rear with 100 on the wing. Overall quality in lieu of a livery editor isn't that great a compromise, because it's liberating to be given freedom in games,

You do understand that there can be so much more to a racing game than a graphic editor? Its all about the way the game is designed. One game keeps doing what they've been doing while one has a new game on new hardware and wants to do much more than their last game and take advantage of the extra system power(1080p,16 cars, Day/Night, Dynamic weather, 3D. Thats the compared compromise. You have to look at the big picture, not just higher detailed car models. The limits of system resources leaves a producer with limited choices.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

How? What part of that causes drawbacks to the gameplay or game design? I don't think is the game that suffers, perhaps the gamers who can't get over standard cars and just accept them will suffer. They can just not buy, play or read about GT5 until it meets their standards.

Suffer might be a bad choice of words for people who are touchy about it... but yeah, I'll stick to it. Drawbacks? Do we really have to list the things that Standards miss out on that Premiums do have? This two-tier setup extends far past just the makeup of the models.

You are wrong. KY has said many times the premium models will be used in the future on the next console.

Uh... reading comprehension? Look what you quoted. See that 800 number? That isn't referring to the Premiums. I've even agreed that they should be absolutely fine as bases for the next game, whether it's on this system or the next. They are the finest-detailed car models of any console racer currently, and I don't see a need to improve on them if GT6 really is only two or three years away, on PS3. They're really not my concern. It's the nearly decade-old Standard models, whether they've been "upgraded" or not, they're a dead breed, from a modeling perspective.

That is an objective opinion. Sadly it is not logical. If they did what you suggest, making one level of quality, GT5 wouldn't have the variety of cars that the GT is known for and that would make GT5 suffer.

One, I assume you mean "subjective".

That's questionable, really. It depends on your definition of "variety". If it's simply the biggest number for the car list... then yeah, you're right. So taking your "logic" further, we should import the GT1 and GT2 car models, at least, the ones that never showed up in PS2 or newer games.

I mention it because I can see the benefits of both approaches, I don't simply always assume PD's way = the best, and only, way. Hypothetically, 400 or 500 cars, at a level of detail lower than the current Premiums, but still multi-piece and able to handle proper damage, could still have plenty of variety. I'd miss out on some of the 50+ Skylines and every possible permutation of the RX-7, I realize, but it's still possible to have some awesome levels of variety in a car lineup that big. Of course, the drawback is these models would need updating sooner in the future to deal with the natural progression of gaming. Double-edged sword...

But like I've said, in this thread, numerous times, I do see the long-term benefits of the approach PD has actually taken. The Premiums are a long-term investment, they will look good for a long time. But sadly, it means the majority of the cars in the current game are warmed-over rehashes, incapable of showing us some of the features this new game is being touted as having. Which is a bit of a disappointment, to put it bluntly. GT6 will benefit from the Premiums, absolutely... but I don't want to be in a perpetual state of "think of the next game!". It's been almost six years since GT4's release, my primary concern is the current game.

It is ok to just open your eyes. This, of course, is assuming you've played GT5p, for then you would understand the gradiosity of GT5. BTW, I was talking about KY having the GT series, not just GT5, and Deve having nothing.

Oh, GT5 seems like it will be massive. Of this I have no doubt. I also think overall, the game will be described as, at the very least, great[/i]. But best game, or even series? Heh, you want to talk about opinions...

(EDIT) Doh, you noticed the objective/subjective thing too!

And Tenacious - Yes, I have. What's your point? That doesn't make my statement any less valid.

 

[Dravonic]

The models might not be good, but then they have to accept a 1000 layers of data on top of each side & the top and then 500 front & rear with 100 on the wing.

Nope, they don't really have to.

All layers are merged into a single texture. Well, at least they should. Turn 10 must have no clue of what they are doing if they don't merge the layers before a race, at the very least. Layers only make sense when in the livery editor. Anywhere else they should be merged into a single one.

 

[LaBounti]

Suffer might be a bad choice of words for people who are touchy about it... but yeah, I'll stick to it. Drawbacks? Do we really have to list the things that Standards miss out on that Premiums do have? This two-tier setup extends far past just the makeup of the models.

I won't debate your opinion. I'm just sharing my own.

 

[Dapper]

Last I checked GT5 was a game for PS3. And since nothing has been said about the PS4 at this point, that whole "next generation" comment is really nothing more than marketing speak.

You are wrong. KY has said many times the premium models will be used in the future on the next console.

What we have done is perhaps more appropriate for a future console.

https://www.gtplanet.net/tgs-interviews-yamauchi-talks-standard-cars-damage-gt6-more/

The level of precision we’ve achieved [in GT5] is actually more suited to the next generation of machines. The detail that goes into a premium model [has] gone beyond the level of the current PlayStation.

https://www.gtplanet.net/gt5s-premium-cars-go-beyond-ps3s-capabilities/



What you call marketing speak I call truth.

And I never equated variety with quantity. Variety speaks for itself. So, once you understand everything can't be 'premium' you'll understand having cars of lower quality that aren't represented with the higher 'premium' quality is actually a good thing.

 

[Tenacious D]

And Tenacious - Yes, I have. What's your point? That doesn't make my statement any less valid.

That you might not have much of a point.

"You know, Gran Turismo games have a high turnover rate..." (even though I bet you only noticed this with Prologue)

"But every game has high turnover... attention deficit kids..."

"But my point still stands."

*goes back to playing GT4*

Edit: well, poo gas, I have to go to the store. So first, I procrastinate over having game time stolen from me.

The "suffering" GT5 is going to endure because of the Standards is something that is entirely individual and subjective. Yes, some people will still resent it when they get GT5. How many? I'm thinking a few tens of thousands out of two or three millions in 2010 sales. In the News and General Discussion thread, the Standard resenters are pretty few in number, while everyone else seems very enthusiastic over GT5.

There are a couple of members or so in this thread who have gone so far as to say that Kaz shouldn't be putting Standard cars in at all, just letting GT5 go with only the 200 some odd Premiums, but that view is mostly dead. Inconceivable.

So just going on the remarks in general on the boards, the barometer of enthusiasm for GT5 seems pretty high. Suffering level, low.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I won't debate your opinion. I'm just sharing my own.

You asked for examples of drawbacks, the two-tier system provides them. Standards missing out on numerous features sadly isn't an opinion .

https://www.gtplanet.net/tgs-interviews-yamauchi-talks-standard-cars-damage-gt6-more/

https://www.gtplanet.net/gt5s-premium-cars-go-beyond-ps3s-capabilities/

What you call marketing speak I call truth.

And I never equated variety with quantity. Variety speaks for itself. So, once you understand everything can't be 'premium' you'll understand having cars of lower quality that aren't represented with the higher 'premium' quality is actually a good thing.

We can continue arguing semantics then. Kaz, the man behind the game, arguably with the most vested interest in its success, thinks they're really more suitable for the next system (which so far has no specs and is more an assumed progression at this point). "What we have done is perhaps more appropriate for a future console" is just an opinion, not truth.

That you might not have much of a point.

High sales doesn't always equal great games. The same way low sales don't always indicate bad games.

"You know, Gran Turismo games have a high turnover rate..." (even though I bet you only noticed this with Prologue)

You know what they say about assumptions. I've noticed it with every GT game... which always saddened me a bit since I've kept mine, and I imagine most people who consider it "great" wouldn't be tempted by a couple dollars off their next game...

"But every game has high turnover... attention deficit kids..."

Which I sort of alluded to with the "fun/easier" comment. We can love GT all we want, it's not an easily approachable game for people who are just into racing games in general.

(EDIT) Again, if you're going to purposely ignore what I wrote in regards to the "suffering" comment (the entire paragraph about long-term advantages/disadvantages I see with this approach, and the hypothetical one I mentioned), then whatever. I'm excited because finally, finally the game is going to release. Apologies I don't go out of my way to white knight around here for an inanimate object.

 

[Jedi2016]

Nope, they don't really have to.

All layers are merged into a single texture. Well, at least they should. Turn 10 must have no clue of what they are doing if they don't merge the layers before a race, at the very least. Layers only make sense when in the livery editor. Anywhere else they should be merged into a single one.

They're definitely merged. And significantly reduced in resolution.. that's one of my only pet peeves about the F3 livery editor, is that during the races, and especially replays, you can see how low-res and pixelated the liveries look.

 

[JDMKING13]

They're definitely merged. And significantly reduced in resolution.. that's one of my only pet peeves about the F3 livery editor, is that during the races, and especially replays, you can see how low-res and pixelated the liveries look.

Or when i make a nice design In replay mode its not even in the right location.

 

[FlourescentBlak]

^ It's really that bad? I have not played any Forza game.

 

[JDMKING13]

^ It's really that bad? I have not played any Forza game.

Nah its not a bad game its somethings I like about Forza3, however it has some issues. For example I made a license plate for my EG6, but when I watch a replay my license plate was on the rear bumper

 

[Tenacious D]

High sales doesn't always equal great games. The same way low sales don't always indicate bad games.

In the abstract, I can certainly agree with that. There are after all, "sleeper" hits which are little known games of good quality which have an avid following. Some of the Saturn and Dreamcast games, for instance. And to be sure, there are games I despise such as Gran Theft Auto, and others which don't grab me like Demon Souls, which sell very well. However, Gran Turismo is hardly what anyone would consider an abstract, hypothetical, theoretical entity. However you'd like to portray it, it's a wildly popular series with no end of accolades for its amazing dedication to detail and involvement, and you apparently think the series is pretty darn okay.

You seem to enjoy quibbling for the sake of it...

You know what they say about assumptions. I've noticed it with every GT game... which always saddened me a bit since I've kept mine, and I imagine most people who consider it "great" wouldn't be tempted by a couple dollars off their next game...

I'm not sure you're thinking this through. If there are more than 50 million Gran Turismo games sold, more than 11 million of them GT4, those game cases could smother a few square miles. If say half of those GT4 games were in the hands of casual gamers, that's more than five million games swamping the used market. A good deal of those are going to be in display at your local game stores. I have a feeling you're going to see a few of them.

(EDIT) Again, if you're going to purposely ignore what I wrote in regards to the "suffering" comment (the entire paragraph about long-term advantages/disadvantages I see with this approach, and the hypothetical one I mentioned), then whatever.

Oh brother, Mr Offendi. Let me sum up your paragraphs:

"What Kaz does with GT isn't necessarily the best. The two tier approach could suck."

"Or, maybe he's right, and making Premiums future proof for the next gen could be brilliant..."

I think you must be related to Devedander. You both seem to wander around in your own thoughts and say a few differing things at once. So what's in question here?

A GT game with 1000 or so cars, 200 plus Premiums and 800 some odd Standards, apparently of GT4 Photo Mode quality. And your supposition?

GT5 could suffer as a result. Because?

People may not like it a lot.

Okay, so how do you judge this? Perhaps you might look around the boards, perhaps at the News and General Discussion thread where most of us share our deepest thoughts in general. Which we both do. And? Most of the hand wringing has faded, and enthusiasm for the game as a whole is pretty darn high. I'm not seeing anything particularly convoluted here.

So okay, let's discuss the future, GT6. What do we know about it? Hardly anything, except that we're going to be playing some of it in GT5. We know the physics and graphics are going to be tweaked, they always are, and it could even be a PS4 title. How many "Premium" cars will there be? We don't know, but in three years, the same team of car modelers could make around 200 more cars, for a total of 5-600 cars. In four years, it could be more than 700. And if SONY agrees to fund the hiring of more modelers, who knows how many cars there will be?

Are you afraid that Kaz is going to want to have 2000 cars, half of them or more of GT4-level Standards? Maybe you should wait a few years for some definite news before you begin fretting.

And on the subject of "white knighting," you certainly seem perched on a high horse around here.

 

[Jedi2016]

Nah its not a bad game its somethings I like about Forza3, however it has some issues. For example I made a license plate for my EG6, but when I watch a replay my license plate was on the rear bumper

Huh.. can't say I've had that happen. All my stuff is in the right place during replays, and I do have license plates on a couple of my cars.

 

[Teh_Loserer]

I'm not crazy about the whole Premium/Standard deal, but I see the reasoning behind it. It's not so bad that I feel the need to complain/cry/post angry stuff on GTP, but I do wish PD would've done a PSP-esque black frame cockpit view for the standard cars.

DLC upgrades from standard would be awesome, but I wouldn't hold my breath. With Mr. Gran Turismo himself talking about how the premium car details in GT5 were better suited for the next console, I'd imagine PD will be busy with GT6.

It'd be REALLY cool if I was both right and wrong, where they're working on GT6, but the cars are all "premium" and compatible with GT5, so they go ahead and release them as DLC.

 

[FlourescentBlak]

If they released DLC packs for new or upgraded cars I would buy every one.

Kaz did in an interview say he didn't like the idea of DLC and preffered to ship a full game.

 

[GTsimms]

Seems like they could hire some more people to do interior views for dlc. I would pay for the dlc to help GT6 and the cost of hiring to get more interior views.

 

[FlourescentBlak]

Word

 

[Tenacious D]

I do wish PD would've done a PSP-esque black frame cockpit view for the standard cars.

This is a fairly popular position around here. What I understand about that is there was evidently a problem with the interior and driver cam placement. I don't know why, but from Forza, I've learned that even a car model that looks right can have buggy problems. Anyone who has tried to paint liveries on most of the Forza cars will at some point have encountered things being inverted, pushed way off the car in limbo and other issues. Perhaps this is the problem with the Standards not having been built and coded with driver cam in mind.

As for DLC, Kaz was adamant that GT5 would be a complete game. But it does seem that he doesn't want people to think that GT5 is going to ship with a small fleet of cars and some tracks coming up for DLC a month or two after the game ships, as is often the case with EA games, for instance. What's really irritating is finding out that the content was on the disc all along, but you pay to unlock it.

But as a general concept, Kaz is keeping an open mind on it. We are getting some DLC, as there are the special car downloads for the Collectors Editions. We could be getting Premium/Standard car replacement DLC in the future, as well as new tracks. We'll just have to wait and see on that.

 

[LaBounti]

You asked for examples of drawbacks, the two-tier system provides them. Standards missing out on numerous features sadly isn't an opinion

That's not an opinion, you calling it a drawback is. Its not a drawback for everyone, just you and who ever else feels that it is. Me personally will be unaffected by what you feel is a drawback as its not one to me. I can still play and enjoy GT5 as it was intended just like I did with GTPSP.

If they released DLC packs for new or upgraded cars I would buy every one.

Kaz did in an interview say he didn't like the idea of DLC and preffered to ship a full game.

Clearly Kaz isn't on the same page as other developers or the consumer in this age of gaming if that's the case.

 

[Devedander]

Just an (off topic) touch of humor: